Recently I've been having trouble navigating the two most important relationships in my life, and I'm hoping to get some outside opinions.
Some background that I think is relevant: I'm an only child and live with my fiance. My mother passed away 10 years ago and my father never remarried. My relationship with my dad is complicated, growing up he sometimes had a bad temper, a few times physically violent. On the other hand, there were times he was loving and sacrificed a lot for me.
I spent most of my 20s fighting with him, but over the past 5 years our relationship has mostly stabilized. He's apologized for the ways he's failed me as a parent, and I've been able to put a lot of things in the past. These days I view him as an old man -- while we don't have the kind of relationship where I talk to him like a friend, I have enough love for him that I want him to be happy.
My dad is 75, has no major health issues and lives on his own, but over the past few years he has become increasingly emotional and lonely. I used to call him every week, then I started calling him every few days, recently started calling me every day. He just wants to chat about his day, asks what I'm doing, etc. I try to set boundaries, I tell him I'm busy and I'll talk to him later. I've tried telling him to find some activities and make some friends, but he is just saddened by this.
My dad has not found a permanent residence yet because my fiance and I haven't settled down. He wants to live near us (though as time goes on, "near" becomes increasingly shorter of a distance). So he lives in short term rentals near us in between overseas trips to visit family, and when he's here I make a point to see him once every week/two weeks.
My fiance has made it clear he doesn't approve of my father, the ways he failed me as a child, and sees his depending on me for emotional support now as entitled, selfish, and controlling behavior. My dad has always been polite when he is over, but my fiance finds his behavior disgusting and it starts a fight if I want to bring my dad to our house.
I should note that my parents were immigrants from an Asian culture because I think the cultural differences in norms and expectations are important to the conflict here, and within myself, as I grew up in Western culture.
I understand where my fiance is coming from. I think he is partially being protective of me, he sees me being stressed over dad's clingy-ness and doesn't think he deserves my emotional support. However, I also think my fiance is being selfish. His parents are also immigrants (different culture) and he has a terrible relationship with his own father, and projects some of that baggage. Recently my dad asked if he could get mail delivered to our address and I said of course, not thinking too much about it, but this triggered my fiance. He views this as my dad asserting dominance of sorts, that it was HIS house too, and my dad should have asked HIM and not just me. When my dad calls me, my fiance will get annoyed at his tone of voice, finding it overly needy and patriarchal.
I'm posting here because I think the cultural nuances are key to the conflict I'm experiencing. My parents worked their whole lives for me to get a good education/job, which they view as giving me a better life, but my fiance views as status-seeking behavior when they should have spent more time talking/listening to me. I think both views are true. As an only child, my parents pinned all their hopes and self-identities into me. My parents viewed this as love, and my fiance views this as toxic, that my dad thinks he owns me. Again, I think both are true.
I am struggling with where to go from here. I can see where both sides are coming from, and both relationships are important to me. I have been an emotional mess the past few days and could benefit from some other perspectives/advice on this.
Thank you for reading.
As an Asian daughter myself, here's my advice: if you want to uphold Asian values, uphold them not as an Asian daughter, but as an Asian son. Asian sons love their parents, believe in family values--and find someone else to do the actual caregiving. In their case it's an Asian wife. That allows the sons to go on loving their parents. Since you won't have an Asian wife you should turn to professionals, either at home or in a home.
If, on the other hand, you want to learn how to start hating your father, then don't set boundaries, let him ruin your relationship (with a guy who is trying, clumsily, to take care of you), and let your father's caregiving take over your life. It's guaranteed to work.
+1 on couples counseling. Best of luck.
Ultimately you are right, it is up to me to set boundaries and uphold my own values. Do you have any advice to share on setting boundaries here? When he calls me just to chat and wants to hear about my day, I feel guilty saying no. I do care about my father, but you are right that my people-pleasing here is breeding my own resentment.
And just because your father calls you every day doesn't mean that you have to answer your phone. You can just let it go to voicemail, and then call him back once or twice a week.
And for God's sake DO NOT let him move close to you, unless you want continued problems for all involved. Surely you're smart enough to know that right?
And DO NOT allow your fathers mail to be sent to your address as you're only asking for trouble as it will then look like he is living there and that could create a really big hot mess in the future.
You say that both your fathers and your fiancés relationships are "important" to you, but in reality if you honestly plan on marrying your fiancé, then he must come before your father. Period, end of sentence.
You DON'T owe you father anything, never did, but you do owe the man you love and want to marry a whole lot. Remember that. You are not marrying your father.
If your father chooses to not have much of a life that is on him not you. You are not responsible for keeping him occupied or entertained. Again that is on him.
I think it is YOU that has your priorities mixed up, and until you can figure out just which man should be your number one, it may be best to take steps back from both.
And for God's sake DO NOT marry your fiancé until you figure out if he should in fact be your number one priority. If not cut your ties and move on with your life away from both he and your father.
I made the mistake of thinking that and had every reason to regret it. I got out of that relationship, but it took its toll for years afterwards. I'm not saying that her's would also be toxic, but there are some warning signs.
He is dictating her relationship with her father; he was angry that her father asked her about the mail, instead of him; and he is very dismissive of her heritage culture. She does not need to be encouraged to feel that she owes him anything whatsoever.
I agree that you have two men trying to get dibs on you and your attention, and trying to control you to one degree or another to lock that in. I would spend some time reflecting on this unhealthy dynamic and maybe seek counseling to help you get out from under these men in your life so that you are making your own decisions and can have healthy relationships.
You won't change your dad at his age. However you need to draw very firm boundaries with your father. Phone calls are fine, IF you have time for a few minutes. However when you encourage your dad to get his own life and he acts "saddened," this is guilt-tripping and manipulating you. If they are daily with nothing new to actually talk about, they could be a way for him to make sure he has your attention, sort of a power thing.
I think your fiance is absolutely right about not letting your dad use your address for mail -- but expecting your dad to ask HIM was off base. He could just asked that the two of you discuss it together before you gave your dad an answer. But in any case, that is your father's way of having an excuse to visit you, to get his mail. Not finding a place to live because he wants to be "near" you is a red flag. He is either angling to move in with you or looking for an unfunny "Everybody Loves Raymond" setup.
Basically they're in a bit of a power struggle over you, so analyze the various elements and figure out how to work them out in a healthy way for you.
I agree father's behavior is guilt-tripping and manipulating, which angers me as well. But I also think it's a bit more complex than power and dominance, and deeply rooted in Asian culture. In his culture, he has failed as a parent if his child does not want to take care of him when he is older, and this is seen as the greatest shame. My cousins who have grown up in Asian culture live with their parents in old age and are content in it. I do not agree with this and could simply not do this, but this is an idea deeply ingrained in my father. I have told my dad that I don't want him to live with us, and cognitively he seems to understand and will make attempts at giving me space, but emotionally he just cannot change how he feels. I think he looks at his siblings who live with their children and doesn't understand what he did wrong, and as he gets older he only perceives this as more and more of a loss/failure of his life.
Your comment has made me realize that I wish fiance was more supportive of me and that is what's hurtful from his side. I see his perspective, but I wish he would help me set boundaries instead of lashing out and leaving me to navigate my relationship with my father alone. He has his own issues that we are working through.
He can and should have his social security and other recurring payments deposited directly into his bank account rather than mailed.
If you don't set this boundary, then your dad will set you to work while he's out of the country, telling him what's in his mail, and then going to the bank, going to the post office to forward things, asking you to call social security or whoever on his behalf, having you scan things to him, all contributing to his "daughter as servant" mentality.
Just think about what your dad would need to do if you didn't exist or if you were still estranged. Whatever that is, that's the solution when he tries to impose on you.
You say your father is stressing you out . This is what has your fiance angry .
You need to set better boundaries .
Do not have your father send mail to your house . You do not want it to look like he resides there for a number of reasons .
Your fiancé is correct in being upset about your father’s motives . It’s not only cultural nuances of how you were raised . Dad is looking for you to be his caregiver in the future .
I also agree I need to have more explicit boundaries. I did not think at all about the mail issue, and I should have. I understand fiance's perspective here, because I feel it's a fight I fought throughout my life. I think it's a bit more complicated than dominance, because my mother was possessive in different but similar ways, and there is a lot I regret about how I behaved in her final years.
I guess I just wish fiance was more supportive, I feel if it was up to him, I'd never see my father again, which is just not what I want at this point.
You wrote this about your father .
I spent my entire life trying to make a manipulative and guilt tripping mother happy . It almost cost me my marriage . Luckily , I woke up in time .
You are not responsible for your father’s happiness . You are being guilt tripped because of your father’s expectations . Like you, I told my mother she could not live with us , but I think you have too much tolerance for the guilt trips in general and expect your fiancé to be as well . I was the same . It’s because you are trying to make it up to your father for setting a boundary of him not moving in with you . My husband and I had moved to another state because of my husband’s job and my parents followed . My mother expected us to entertain her all the time . She refused to make new friends in the 55 and over they lived in . When I set boundaries about that she took it out on my husband , blaming him for her “ having to move”.
We didn’t tell them to move. They moved because I was expected to be their caregiver . I felt bad because Mom said she was lonely .
I speak from experience here .
I used to be frequently told by my husband and close friends who knew my mother that I “ was being too nice”.
Make a life for yourself with your fiancé. Set boundaries now with your father before you get sucked in to agreeing to do things you might later regret.
I’m a senior myself and can’t stand clingy elders.
Good luck!
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