In setting boundaries, is the backlash why most people don't set them?

RBuser, who gives a care what she is telling people.

The ones that matter will see it for what it is and the others, well they don't matter.

I told several people that believed my dads bs that they can have him, lock, stock and barrel, because he doesn't need a piece of crap like me helping him, so please take him since you can do so much better. That shuts them up and not one of them helped in anyway, only repeat his crappy lies.

Hold fast to taking your life back, keep those boundaries and never let her move back in.

I am helping a friend learn to set boundaries.  Her problem is that she expects her parents to RESPECT her boundaries and says "it isn't working" when they don't respect her boundaries. It doesn't work because there is not a "then" to her "if". We are working on it. "If you don't respect my time by not calling work, then I'm not going to come over tonight"  you get the idea.

Lealonnie1 thank you for talking about gaslighting. I heard it before but didn’t know what it was. That definitely describes my mother!!

Update or start new thread? Update:
When I gave my Mom a date to vacate-she has gone into a frenzy. Paying someone to do the cleanup work at the 'house' and has been going back and forth over there since last week. I finally decided to throw in the towel with how she is handling that. For the past 2 days she has screwed up her medicine schedule and tonight accused me of trying to make her double her doses and make her sick. Not.
I had one whole day of her being away and it felt good. As soon as she showed back up today-sh*t started all over again. I am sure she is telling everyone I am kicking her out.
This could go a lot smoother I imagine. Coulda woulda shoulda.

What the heck happened to make so many women( i wont even use the word mother!) be like this??? Narcissistic, mean, controlling and on and on....Such abuse....and does any of us know why???
ive just read this entire thread and it just breaks my heart to the core.
its mind boggling to me that there are so many like this.....its up to us, our generation, to stop the abuse and insanity.

As difficult as it is, don't let yourself be drawn into "the arsenal of zingers and emotional triggers." When she gets on her mean streak of acrimony, don't respond, else you'll fail faint and ill and be good to no one.

If her mind is still intact and she is knowingly tossing out zingers, every once in a while you need to reel her in by telling her she needs to be nice - or - you are not going to play the 'mean' game with her. If she has dementia, you cannot argue with a broken brain and learn to divert the conversation as soon as it starts.

Counseling and support groups for you. There are others out there with similar feelings. No one has the exact same thing going on, but there are enough similarities in everyone's caregiving role that they can "relate". Just remember how you feel now when your mom is gone and see how you feel at that point. I am 66, my mom is 89 and was diagnosed with inoperable cancer three weeks ago. She is on Hospice now and she will be dying at some point. On top of all of her other diagnoses, this seems the most cruel to me. There is no hope of a miracle cure because of the situation she is in. She told me at the hospital in one of her more lucid moments that she didn't deserve this. I agree. I just try to remember what it used to be like she was my mother and not someone with all of the issues she now has. It seems like it was someone else's lifetime.

Hi RB,
We do see them-WE HEAR-them and we are with you. My life is pretty much yours, but the only thing I want to share is, keep working- someway, some how, please dont go the SS route. Its not what you think. Im 62, only child, mother from hell from day 1, Im broke because of the non stop daughter in me. I have 5 stents and bless that they found the aneurysm before it popped at the base of my aorta.The slap with that was-mine is genetic- FROM HER!
So going thru all that, I made friends in rehab & hospital-Started back in 2010. Im the only one who didnt go SSDI. Karen died first, drs and drugs did her in- over dosing into brain damage. When the scripts ran out, the street drugs got her thru til refills came in. She ended up loosing her apt and moved into housing, there she met more people with nothing to do all day. Nikki -she discovered wine, sitting at a chain restaurant bar during the day. Then beer and wine, then pot, beer, wine, vodka, police, loss of license, she hooked up with some drugged out guy who was drinking and drugging his SSDI check...finally she passed. A neighbor found her, couple days later. Going SSDI gave them way too much time on their hands. Its not good. The same fight that kept me going back to a rotten mother kept me alive. Im now totally done with her. Im broke and fighting my way back now at 62 yrs old. If medically you need to go disability I understand, but DO NOT allow too much empty time in your life, she will find it, sense it, and destroy you from the inside. Just the very idea of her ruining you medically & mentally is a victory for people like this. THEY COME FOR YOUR SOUL and when they see they are winning its all over for you. Your best revenge is living and being happy. Even if she is under your roof put it in her face. YOU cant let her live your life. Go out, dress up-even if you walk thru WalMart alone- let her think she missing something HUGE. Invite friends over do something for you and let her see it. YA, there will be payback-but thats because YOU HIT A NERVE! Enjoy it. Either she lives your life and sets your rules or you do. Look what you have already been thru-You still have YOU, your guts, drive, your life. Get a good look at history and then decide if you was history for future. Let her rot in her own swill. I did and it can be done.
I support you, I hear you, I understand you. YOU ARE NOT WRONG. You just havent crossed into the self worth yet. Come on, here a little push for you. Cross that line and breath. I promise you its better on this side. Take the leap!

Rbuser,

Don’t you wonder why, just why? I do all the time. No ‘real’ answers to the tough questions. Sure, we speculate. We have theories but are we ever privileged to know what is deep down in their hearts, even though sometimes it seems like they don’t have a heart or know what’s in that thick skull of theirs.

It’s a mystery! I think I would be afraid to be psychic and be able to read people’s minds. Some things we are better off not knowing because our hearts have been crushed enough.

Then other times I want to know every single detail so I won’t invest any more time or energy into what seems like a futile situation.

Sorry, this answer was absolutely no help to you. Just a rant, venting along with you. Hope you don’t mind. Hugs! I truly hope you find your answers that you seek. In the meantime please vent as much as you need to along with the rest of us.

Take care...

I hear you about setting boundaries. I finally did and it has helped. It's been almost a year and there has been no criticism thrown my way - even appreciation. Of course that could change but hopefully my mom has finally seen my worth as I've done everything for her. I sometimes hate that I gave up so much of my life to giver her a better one. She's almost 93 and I plan to just ride it out to the end. Hopefully I can without a total breakdown. I've been given a very long 3 month break as she's staying with a friend. I actually feel normal so I know I'm still in there somewhere. I started seeing friends, partaking in hobbies, interests, etc. So please everyone take care of yourself and get any and all help available. Get away for the day at least! I don't know what is down the road. I'm lucky as she can still get around, cook, bath herself and has all her marbles. It's actually pretty remarkable. She recently cause a major ruckus with other family members and her "true" colors came to light. They now know what I have dealt with. Hopefully she will stay "nice" to me - that's all I ask. If not I don't plan to let her ruin anymore of my life. She has limited funds too and I'm a single homeowner so we are not rich by any means. But I do have annuity coming in, still work full-time and she has some money. I don't know if I can work full-time, take care of her and a home. It's starting to wear me down so I might sell and move to an apt. Time will tell. Everyone giver yourself a big HUG, be kind to yourself, treat yourself - all of us caretakers deserve it!

My family has taken a back seat and I know I will not get much assistance from them. So I will rely on the state, volunteers, even friends who have offered. Good luck to all!

Hugs and prayers for you and your family.  Find some time everyday to care for yourself, and each day, increase that time - maybe even get back out there and enjoy life eventually, as you say.  Also, suggest saying something nice everyday to your mom.  It might just soften her a bit.

You live together so you see her behavior all the time... and it seems to hurt you. Wow! That is a hard way to live, especially if you crave peace, cooperation and nonconfrontation. Healthy boundaries are for you, not others. Please work with your counsellor to identify all those distressing problems with mom and come up with a game plan to deal with them. Practice using your plan whenever mom's behavior gets out of control. The goal is not to change you mom, which will probably never happen anyway, but to find positive ways of dealing with it that leave your ego intact.

May I also suggest that you need other relationships in your life. Co-workers, friends, neighbors, faith-based friends, gym buddies ... being with healthy people to counter your main relationship - your and mom. It may require having somebody else watching mom awhile to get some "me time" but everybody needs this to create health and balance in their life.

First of all, good for you for standing up for yourself. More than likely, your mother is not used to a daughter with a backbone. Could the paranoia be a symptom of the onset of dementia? Have you thought about asking your counselor or researching on your own a caregiver support group in your area? What about volunteering?

I am again made to feel fortunate for never having been in situations like many of you describe in your posts. Both of my parents humbly apologized to us if they caused us any inconvenience, like needing an errand run or having to go to the ER! During my husband's terminal illness, he would apologize for "letting me down" by getting sick not being able to take care of me! His sentiment still touches my heart.

Reading all of your "horror stories" makes me hope I will never become negative and mean and demanding when I need more help myself.

My mom was a very experienced narc. I say was, because she passed away in August. She assaulted me twice and ended up in the geriatric psychiatric ward of the hospital. When she realized the cat was out of the bag and her behavior was on display for all of the medical staff to see, she became outraged. By the time she was discharged, she was on medication for Alzheimer's with psychotic episodes.
For me, it was hell. She had pitted my brother and I against each other all of our lives, and our relationship fizzled, so we will never see each other again.
I'm 63 now, and I'm relieved my mom passed away. I'm cofused a lot about my grieving. I think I grieve for a mom I wish I'd had.
Your mom isn't going to change. Mom's doctor told me to stop visiting her so much. To visit just once a week. That's what I did. She became angry and agressive with the caregivers, but I stood firm on the days I would visit. I didn't abandon her, but I didn't play into her manipulating ways.
Now, I have PTSD, because of the years of hell that she put me through. I guess what I'm trying to say is, keep your distance from your mom.
Adult protective services had to come out to our home once because mom assaulted me and I called the police. The police had to call APS, which was fine, because I'd already been talking to a case worker. They're the ones that advised me to have her admitted to the hospital.
My husband and I went away for a weekend a few times, and mom was so angry that we did. I didn't feel bad about it either. We have to have time with our spouses, or LO, right? Right. You have to reclaim your life. It's a fight, but it's worth it.
So, call APS, DSHS, and get them involved right away. They aren't there to prosecute anyone, and they will help you find a solution for you. I'll never be sorry for getting them involved with my parents.
Depending on the state you live in, there's options for putting your mom in a home. My parents were in an Adult Family Home, which was much better than a nursing home, or ALF. You do have options for getting your mom out of your home.
I hope you can find peace somehow.

rbuser, I’m on a similar train and got a lot out of your posts and all the replies. But I don’t live with my problematic mother thank goodness. Adults suddenly living with adults is fraught even if there isn’t mental/motion all illness. I hope you will continue with the counseling (switch counselors if needed) and find a support group in your area like someone else suggested. You can and will set the boundaries that matter most, I just know it!

I am just so very sad for all here who have similar situations and non nurturing mothers and/or fathers. I guess we can thank them for giving us reasons how not to be with others? It takes years to learn and be conditioned to react or deal with things and it probably takes years to try and accept it and let it go, too and I'm being introspective here too.
Probably I need to take a little break from here and turn my attention to other things. Meaning go walk on the beach or the mall. Yeah, that's it. So maybe if we all collectively go out and live in the moment in the sun or even rain it will be like sending positive vibes to each other to know we are living instead of just surviving. take care and love to all. I will be thinking of you all.

Mid and Lealonnie,

My MIL had non Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Her mom, horrible woman, told everyone that her daughter didn’t even have cancer. She told everyone that her daughter made it up to get attention! How sick is that?

First of all, my MIL was not vain at all and didn’t do anything for attention. Secondly, she didn’t have to do anything for attention because everyone loved her for being a lovely woman!

Get this, my MIL was an only child and I swear I think her mother was jealous of her, competing with her only daughter instead of caring about her, being interested in her life and so forth. It’s sickening. Who gets jealous of someone with cancer?! That’s how crazy her mom was.

Her mother wrote hate mail to all of us before she died while in the hospital. She had nothing but hatred in her heart. My MIL used to say she hoped to never to become her mom. We all told her that wasn’t possible. She was nothing like her mom.

For me, I kept trying to make my dreams come true because I wanted them so much. The dream of wanting the normal, happy and thoughtful family became so intense for me. We feel like we are failing instead of those hurting us. I believe it is a sign of insecurity.

Foolishly, some of us think if we only treat them they way we want to be treated, teach by good example, they will eventually return love and respect.

Boy, was I wrong! Then our hurt and frustration starts to wound our hearts. It’s really complex for some of us who happen to be ‘deep thinkers’ or the philosophical type. I really think that is what attracted me to my husband.

He is not a deep thinking philosophical type. He is rational, very logical, a problem solver, an engineer. He grounds my ‘run away’ thinking. I know what I appreciate about him.

Often I have been puzzled what he found attractive in me. Because I feel like I must drive him nuts!

So I asked him what attracted him to me in the beginning. He told me that he couldn’t help but notice my blue eyes that drew him in and he loved my sensitivity towards others. In our case opposites did attract and we balance each other.

Sometimes we clash like any other couple. But for the most part we balance each other. We respect each other. We truly love each other and have been there for each other.

I wish he didn’t have such a high stress job. He wishes I didn’t have to deal with family crap. He has family crap but has learned to put it in perspective. Of course he has. He is better at emotional issues than I am. I am working on it though and I will make it.

Ha! Yes, I give my whole heart when I love. It’s who I am. Once though, I dated this drop dead gorgeous guy but he was quite a jerk. When I ended the relationship with him he was upset and said that I was making a mistake and asked for another chance. I told him no more chances and I wasn’t making a mistake.

He then says that I would never be able to ‘forget him.’ He was so vain! I looked at him with amazement and kind of giggled and told him, “Please reign in your ego because very shortly you will be nothing more than a distant memory for me.” I never looked back.

Why is this so hard for some of us to do with family members? It’s so much harder to close the door on a family member and it really shouldn’t be.

I have had to go grey rock with mother. Not happy about it, and I am not feeling great about it---BUT...she was making my life so impossible to live in a healthy fashion.

Don't know what's really wrong with her, Narc personality disorder, manipulative disorder, who knows? All I know is it had gotten worse as she's aged.

There's 5 of us sibs living. Of course, it was Golden Boy who died and she mourns him incessantly, yet HIS kids have all gone "Black Rock" with her. NO CONTACT whatsoever. She lives another son and complains mightily about him. Doesn't really talk to anyone else in the family. SO SELFISH. It's literally painful.

I just finished my chemotherapy tx for cancer. Did she every call or bother to ask ANYONE in the family how I was doing? Nope. She ACCIDENTALLY called me last week, thinking I was my sister and since her line of ?? made no sense, I said "Mother, did you mean to call T?" Long silence. Yep, she had. So she made some stupid coverup and I said "Mother, I am SO SICK and I really, really don't want to talk to you about your BINGO winnings. I'm fighting for my life and I am sicker than you can imagine. Please don't call again". (I fairness, she has not called me in YEARS AND YEARS, so this call was probably a niece dialing for her).

She didn't have the decency to ask how I am. B/C she doesn't care,

It is beyond any way for me to fathom how she can be so cold so selfish--although this has been 63 years in the making.

Time for a therapy check up. 20 years of therapy, in and out and she is STILL able to get to me. Even tho I never see nor talk to her.

I think I am just beyond terrified that I am going to turn into her. Don't we all feel that way??

Ah ok -
In the meantime it’s not working - when you say ‘waiting’ - is that one of those gok when it will happen waiting times? !
If so consider 24/7 respite care until she can move in - that might get the waiting time down.
And no, you can’t do it all - if she wants things done she will have to pay someone else to do things.
Box things up and label them per room.
Have SET times you can visit - then leave - including moving day.
Do things that could help - like meals at home and take them over for her to warm up. Her loss if she doesn’t want it - put it in freezer.

Start by checking out respite places and inform them it’s temporary as she’s waiting for her own apartment .... but see if they can take her in for December onwards.

Then start looking at what you’d like to do in your spare time
all the best

Margaret, what can also happen is when called on the behavior in public, she may go into victim mode. “But I was just (insert something seemingly caring) for you”. The onlookers see this poor thing and you end up looking like Cruella Deville. It’s a powerful tool in their tool chest.

I notice you gave your mum a date.
Dont let that be a statement that isn’t followed through.
Look up homes or warden assisted flats and when got a selection you find suitable bring up the topic of leaving December 1st and show her the choices.
Remind her how it’s been hell for her with you and that you are having to agree that you are finding it bad too.
That - lie if necessary- you’ve been advised that this is best since you are in need of help yourself.
Be firm.
Inform family that she will be moving.
if she won’t chose - chose for her.
Go to the places and pick best fit / finance
if she’s not co-operating - explain to them so they are aware.
Organise a date for her to go there as close to your specified date as possible.
Sort out what she’s taking / new doctor etc
Remain firm that her staying is not an option.
Bear in mind that any unpleasant behaviour you only have to contend with till she moves.
Notify family of new residence from what date.
Go with her to new place - stay a while then have a convenient “appointment” to leave for.
Breathe!

Best of luck 👍

Rbuser, consider legal evictionn proceedings.

Margaret,

I confronted my mother many times. It doesn’t do any good. They get mad. She either denied or there was an inaccurate retelling of events.

They take the attitude of how dare we confront them. Must be nice to be so perfect, huh?

My mother was never motivated to move in the right direction. She was too busy scolding me for calling her out. Then going behind my back and stirring up crap with lies. Sometimes it’s just not even worth confronting someone.

Maybe they are embarrassed and can’t face the truth due to pride. It takes humility to admit wrong doing and change.

I had a friend who was severely and emotionally abused when young. She left at 15. Got pregnant. Married the guy. Had another child. She loved this man. He was good to her. He was killed in an accident. He was a bit older than she was.

She remarried but he wasn’t a good man. He severely abused her. She would end up in the ER. She finally left him.

She remarried one more time and he is not physically abusing her but he emotionally abuses her. She’s had it tough. I met her at the gym while she was married to the third husband.

The horrible abuse left her very shaky. A common phrase for her was, “I hate the world and everything and everyone in it.” It broke my heart that she had been so abused.

Once as an adult after many years away from her mom she went home to get answers about her childhood. She grew up in Nebraska where they have cold winters. Her mom would take the blanket of the bed to punish her. She told me many mean things that her mom did. She ended up cutting all ties with her mom. Her dad had divorced her mother when she was young and remarried. Her stepmom was lovely and she considered her stepmom as her mom. Her stepmom treated her with love and respect.

During this trip back home she said her mother denied it all. She never apologized. So she told her mom that she didn’t expect an apology even though it would be nice. She asked her to just admit it. Her mom never would. Some people just won’t do it. They are either vicious or perhaps have a mental illness.

I wonder why we don’t call them on the things they say to us, after being sweetness and light to others? When you are all together with the neighbour, say ‘Mother, how can you say that, when you told me that …..’. I think WE are ashamed of THEIR behaviour, and don’t want to display it to other people. However it works out to be a way to control us, and we let it go on and on. If we did make the nastiness clear to other people, in mother’s presence, what would happen? After the blow-up, denials etc, perhaps it would encourage mother to move out?

Panda, I don't receive carer allowance unless that's what she gives me for 'renting' from me. I couldn't go back to work after I had my anxiety/meltdown. I have no income.
She thinks since I'm not working then I should be doing stuff for her as part of the money she gives me. She is able to do a lot of things but tries to bully me into things.
No amount of money is worth all this bullsh*t.

Need, please don't feel guilty and let her contact you when and if she does. She is unhappy there (almost sure of it) and in turn she is blaming your for it. It's not your fault. That's what we need to keep telling ourselves. It's not our fault. Period.
I think, and it's just my thought, we get so conditioned to feel bad about ourselves and how we always come up short-in our Mother's eyes that it takes a while to get back to knowing we were doing all we could and can. Let the others deal with it. It hasn't been that long.

Boundaries are set in place to protect you, and if you don't keep them firm and all you are doing is crying wolf. This also gives the other person the upper hand to manipulate you even more.

My mother was a manipulator and an abuser. I have not spoken to her for 8 years this time and 9 another time. The happiest times in my adult life, I will never go back to her. My boundary is set...no contact.