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Barb, I think you could be right about a second writer. Some of the writing and phrasing sounds very male dominant. Makes no difference, the language is totally inappropriate for a public forum, and I for one, will not engage with someone with the level of hostility and venom reflected in that post. However, there is a stream of underlying anger that runs through all of this posters’ writing. But the sections talking about lack of reading skills and writing at length are female and sound like something she wrote earlier. This may be a rambling poster like some we’ve all encountered before. Or a past poster popping up under a new name to stir things up.

If MIL has all of those money issues and she ran thru a $600,000 inheritance, she definitely has some level of incompetence that would be easily identifiable in an evaluation. Issues with money are an indicator or listed criteria of several mental health diagnoses that would render a person of MIL’s age incapable of making her own decisions and being declared incompetent.

Children of any age, do need a “safe space”. PJ and I both tell our adult sons and grandchildren of all ages that our home will always be a safe space for them to come if they are confused or have a problem. Not to shirk their adult responsibilities or break the law, but a safe place to think, ask for advice, etc.

CountryMouse, Linda22 and Xenajada good answers. Actually many good, thoughtful responses from many posters.
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It suddenly occurred to me that this might be the husband typing a reply.

It really doesn't sound like Misery.
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Whoa!!!

My mistake. I thought you asked for advice because you no longer wanted to do this.  No need to insult or swear.

But DO get her a neuropsych evaluation. It WILL show that she's incompetent. 

You said you'd been advised that "we'd be held liable".  Did you consult an eldercare attorney? Or are you relying on a social worker who tells you that?  " Not at risk" because you're there to care for her"?  And you didn't say " no, I cant, I'm going to school, there will be no one here"?

You mentioned how you couldn't get child support if you left, because husband would have to care for her.

Well, that suggested to me that you had at least considered leaving.  I think it's an option. Not the only one, certainly.  But it appears to be a scary one to you.

So don't do it.  Work with an eldercare attorney on how to get her into a facility.
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So you're not forced to look after your MIL at all. You *want* to look after her. That's absolutely fine, and a great credit to you. I hope it gets easier as time goes on.
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I read all the posts to find out what's been said. I'm afraid OP may have left. Fine. This needs to be said for others who come along and wonder about this.

As a 10-13 year old girl who lived with my grandmother from 18 mos to 7 yr old, I was devastated that my grandmother - who was really my lovey Mommy, (my maternal mthr was and is a horrible person) - was in dementia. She would do anything for me, dressing, washing up, eating when it got to that point. I loved her so much and I was so sad. Mthr, the hoarder, could not let my grandmother go, so I was called on to do much more than sit and visit an hour a week. It got to the point where grandmother had to be spoon fed baby food, and I felt very responsible to get the food into her lest she die. She did die, for a wrong medication overdose, but I internalized it and really felt I could have prevented it. The year after, I wrote the darkest poems of my life and really showed signs of childhood depression which I can tell you was close to the edge. Please don't let your child get involved in your elder's care.
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Misery, you also need to LAY DOWN THE LAW about meal time! Under no uncertain terms will you get up from the dinner table to go help her go to the bathroom. Let her scream all she wants. If hubby cannot handle the screaming, let him go take her. That is just RIDICULOUS and she is doing THAT on purpose just like she was wearing down the nurses at the nursing home.
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Xenajada, I love your ideas to make more bearable with the MIL. Let's see if Misery will agree!

According to Misery, her son DOES have friends over to swim and play: "I try the best I can to keep his life as normal as possible even though it's not but I allow his friends over everyday to go swimming and play and even stay the night."

I hope these kids are being supervised while they are swimming...
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Ouch but true, Linda.
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We have our children for a small window in time. That time where we nurture, teach and spend time with them. Your son may seem to understand but he will develop resentment that his mom isn’t present for him. He’s not going to be able to have friends over or do things with his mom. He’s never going to be able to compete with a needy elderly. People talk about fear, obligation and guilt regarding parents. But a real guilt comes when you realize you let a manipulative elder have you put your child in second place.
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My mother was heavy. She was constantly pulling on me and leaning on. She dislocated my shoulder three times. I have had two laser surgeries on my shoulder in the last three years. My shoulder is still painful at times. Don’t allow this woman to harm you physically. As Rovana said above, evict her if necessary. Also do not allow her to get by without paying for her own personal expenses. If her finances are that messed up, she needs to file for personal bankruptcy so that she has the funds to pay for some personal care, besides you for herself.

And tell her to learn how to scratch her own butt.
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Some here will probably disagree with some of what I say here, but here is what I would do. Some of it may sound cold, but you have to protect yourself and family. I would definitely meet with an elder care attorney and explore options. Until then-

Since she is obviously there to stay (since you are hitting brick walls in all directions), you have to adjust your thinking in dealing with her. Your husband is POA. His only responsibility is for her finances AFTER he was made POA. She blew through wads of money - not his responsibility and siblings need to know that. He needs to keep all receipts and ledgers accounting for her money that he spends now.

Get a hospital bed. Get a Hill-Rom hospital bed if you can find a used one. It tilts in all directions, making it much easier to turn her. Use HER money to pay for it. Check Craigslist for a lift. Use that too. You must protect your back.

Get a bedside commode. Keep it right next to her chair during the day and next to the bed at night. Control the water pill times. Don't give her one at night. Things HAVE to be adjusted so that you can get some sleep. You cannot continue on 4 hours of light sleep.

I would also sedate her at night - Ativan at a minimum. Get her doctor to prescribe something. Tell the doctor she is loud, combative and up all night every night.

Get a waterproof vinyl recliner chair for her (lift chair if you can find one on Craigslist). This is HER chair. Do not let her sit on any other furniture. If there is room in her bedroom for this chair and a TV, keep her in the bedroom. I would not have her dominating and peeing in the living room.

Get her some of those snap front house dresses also called dusters. That is her new wardrobe. Easy on and off.

Set her up with Home Health Care PT. She may need to be evaluated by her doctor for this. So be it. She needs it. I know from dealing with my aunt that she will NOT do the exercises without someone coming in and forcing her to do it.

Spend her money. Hire someone to come in for a minimum of 2 hours daily to get her up, showered and dressed. You can use that time for yourself - grocery shopping, running errands or even getting a short nap.

Control her diet. Do not give in to the screams for ice cream and cheeseburgers or whatever she wants. Research geriatric nutrition and weight loss. Give her healthy LOW carb, low sugar meals. You will probably get the most push back on this, but you need to grow a spine and stand firm.

Get her one of those emergency call buttons. Get the one worn on a wrist.

Get her a blue tooth speaker to put by her chair and one for her nightstand for TV watching OR get her earbuds or headphones. If she refuses to use any of that and insists on continuing to blare the TV, unplug the TV at night. What is she going to do, get out of bed and go plug it back in? After a couple of nights of this, she will see you mean business.

Lay down the law! Once she is clean and in her recliner with remote in hand, fed, meds taken, clean diaper, make it clear you are OFF limits to her for a minimum of an hour. Fasten the remote to the arm of her chair with a velcro strip so that it does not fall.

Put in ear plugs so you don't have to hear her yelling for you to step and fetch. Leave the house for an hour or two. If she makes the poor decision to get up and fall, she may end up back in the hospital and you now know to send her straight to SNF after that. Let her know if she decides to get up and fall, that is what will happen.

There is no law that I'm aware of that can force you to be held prisoner and slave in your home to an elderly person. She could just as easily fall, strangle on liquid, have a heart attack, etc. with you in the next room. If she is immobile, she is not going to wander off. Obviously you don't want to leave her alone all day, but you CAN leave the house some. It is a different story when you are dealing with a highly mobile dementia patient who wanders off.

Scratching her private parts for her?! Oh HELLLLLL NO! So much no! Get her a long handled back scratcher and tell her to knock herself out.
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Ahmjoy: " I’ve noticed the longer and more rambling the posts are, the more likely it’s just a rant and the less likely they truly want our advice.

So true. I need to figure out earlier who the "poor me, ain't it awful, yes but" posters are, too. I'm not one for dispensing tea and sympathy to the ones who, for whatever reason, just won't make the changes necessary to improve their situation.
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Why are we criticizing someone for not taking advise that tells her to divorce her husband, come on that is so uncalled for. She has tried a lot of the suggestions and not had any success, shouldn't we be encouraging her to keep trying instead of being butt hurt she has a mind of her own and like us all needs to find her balance before she can see straight.
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Thanks, Jeanne. My point is that Misery is one of these people, apparently. My mom was one of those people who wasn’t happy unless she was unhappy. I’ve noticed the longer and more rambling the posts are, the more likely it’s just a rant and the less likely they truly want our advice.
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Good answers, JoAnn. I know much thought went into them. I haven’t been on this board as long as some others, but I do know that there are posts from people who just want to vent and really don’t want our advice. Nothing we suggest is feasible or will work for them. Even though they say they want our advice, their feelings get hurt when we call it like we see it. Then they go on about their business, changing nothing and we’re left wondering how it turned out and hoping for the best for them.
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jeannegibbs Jul 2018
Ahmijoy, I've been on this site a LONG time, and I see you have figured out a basic truth early on. Some people don't really want guidance. And that is OK. Venting is valuable, too. But I sure wish that what they wanted was clear from the start, so we didn't spend our limited time offering what was never really wanted in the first place.
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Misery, your damned if you do and damned if you don't huh. To me it looks like you have tried every avenue and have hit brick walls. I find most men have a hard time dealing with a mother's illness. Love my brothers, but one I never see and he lives 30 minutes away the other lives 7 hrs. When they did see Mom, they couldn't deal with it. But I had too. 24/7 for two years, then AL and then NH.

I am 5ft tall with no upper body strength. I would not be able to do what u do. Just found out I have a bulging disc which I think started in 2016 just after I cared for Mom. Looks like you have set some boundries but I just wonder if Mom can do more than she is letting you believe. I can just see one of my Aunts being like this.

Just a question? Why $500 a week for groceries just for her? Hopefully, you can now use her money towards her care. You may need some professional help with her debts, especially owing back taxes. First her cards need to be froze. I think consolidating is a good idea. A pro can get the amounts owed down except maybe for taxes. The loan will pay the creditors and then there will be just one payment. Or, bankruptcy. If she owes property taxes, she could lose her house for that alone. Office of the aging maybe able to give you a name of a Credit professional.

You don't say how old your son is? Even though he understands, doesn't mean it doesn't effect him in some way. My MIL was passive agressive. A sweet lady people thought but nasty when she didn't get her way. Only her DILs saw this side of her because her boys would just do what she asked or "yes Mom". She had a sickness and we were told she did this as a child, lie. Always, to get her out of situations she had lied herself into or lie to get out of something she didn't want to do. She took on other peoples sicknesses as her own. An Aunt had glocoma, so did she. A friend had breast cancer. I get a call from SIL asking why I didn't tell them MIL had BC. Because, she doesn't. She lied to her own son so he would take a two day trip to come home for Christmas. My husband called them exaggerations, but I think he knew his Mom. I have never lied to my husband even by omission. Because I know if I did and he found out, he would never believe me again. This stems from being raised by his Mom. Your son said you would go into a home because he would not take care of you after watching the way Gma treats you. Do you think he will be a compassionate person? I hope so but someone like ur MIL would turn me off to helping people. He may end up a cynicle person when it comes to people and their limitations. We all are a product of our growing up years.

As I have said here before, not big on Social Workers. They don't look out of the box. I had one who couldn't understand why I couldn't put a ramp out Moms door from her living area. Tried to explain the stairs go up to get out. Her room was the lower part of my split level. Half of the room is underground. So the stairs come up out of a well sort of thing. Like someone who has an outside cellar door. She never got it. Just one of my experiences. They never see your side, why it can't be done.

You are not the only one, it seems, that is in your situation. And I think that MIL does have some mental issues. Giving away her money. Expecting someone, who she can see physically can't care for her, to do everything for her. Strokes could leave her with cognitive problems. Does she see a neurologist? I guess the problem would be getting her there. She wants to go home but won't do anything to expedite it? Like someone else has said on this forum "what about the health and finances of the caregiver?"

Sorry, we couldn't help. There is the Baker act but it may not pertain to MIL. I think they have to be a danger to themselves or others. Or not have the ability to make informed decisions. One thing I would do is get some weight off her. I know, believe me I do, that this will not be easy. For starters, cut out or down carbs and sugars. I just cut out Bagels and lost 4 lbs. They have 150 carbs in them and 200 is your daily requirement. Being sedentary she doesn't need many calories daily. There is a diabetic medication that you can lose weight by cutting out carbs. A friend lost 30lbs the first month. Once she loses maybe she will be able to get up and walk around. This is just a suggestion. I deal with a nephew that will not stop eating. Is 250 on a 5ft 6 frame and thats if he stands straight. The weight is going to cause problems with the 4 rods he has in his back plus his physical problems. But does he care, no. He is 28 and has been told he willdie an early death if he doesn't do something. Does he care, no. But he has a neurological problem that effects how he reasons. So, I make my point and then say no more. Love him, but he will not live with me. I cared for Mom, next will be my DH and that is it.
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Misery,
Your situation sounds not only very stressful for you but emotionally draining on a constant basis. Definitely not a healthy environment for you, especially with your disability to manage.

I'm not sure if you've considered getting a bedside commode or one to use in bed. When my mom could not get out of bed without help, the biggest problem was constant bathroom trips. She could barely walk too. The bedside commode was like a godsend and she liked it too - not having to hobble to the bathroom. There was also a ‘bed’ option which was easier that trying to get her elevated, out of bed safe, then lift back into bed,...

She wants to go home ... Something that the nurses and others keep telling me is that the quality of life - the way my mom wants to live out whatever time is left - is more important than the quantity. There is something about being in her home that she needs - if you can figure out what that is and bring that into your home - she may be happier. Or not. She may not be able to let go of what she sees as independence in her own home. She hasn't accepted that she needs someone to help her all the time - not really accepted it in her soul. She may see herself getting better at some point and wants to be in her home. She may want the privacy of being in her home and to her, it's not a mess, it's the way she wants it. We may not agree, we may want her to have a clean/neat home without strangers coming in and to have what we perceive as good quality of life but what we think of as 'quality' may not be the same as hers.
My mom (90 yo) is an extreme fall risk - she has COPD, CHF and severe vascular problems with both legs making her very unstable on her feet. It was like fighting a tiger to move her to AL but at one doctor's visit, the doctor said she should be in AL because of her fall risk and she finally started considering it. We moved her before she could change her mind. We pay for increased care so she has help with getting out of bed, showering, etc. but she will not call for help. She insists on doing it herself even though she can barely get herself out of bed and the risk of fall (and death) are significant. She's been found slumped onto the side of the bed because she's stuck and doesn't have the strength to get 'unstuck'. She won't call anyone to help her in the shower. She'll refuse meds because she doesn't like how they make her feel. She refuses to eat regularly because she's not hungry. All these 'independent' decisions are more important to her than living longer or sacrificing her privacy (bathroom/showering) or her ability to live the way she wants to. It may be the same for your MIL. She wants to be home - let her live the way she wants. It's not the way you or your husband think she should live but it's still her choice and she accepts the consequences. I don't have any suggestions regarding the money situation but maybe move all her valuable stuff somewhere else so she knows she still has these but those are not accessible to anyone she brings into her house to help her?
Thank goodness you're getting some time away!
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Misery, WE are not the enemy. WE are not the folks who moved your MIL in with you.

WE are trying to give you ideas about how to get out of this mess.

And yes, why didn't your husband move her into nursing home?
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Misery, hi again,
I'm glad your getting away with your little guy. I have three sons and they are an absolute blast and always have been. Their now 31, 29, 20. Enjoy your vacation. Don't take everything you're hearing here to heart. Take what you need and leave the rest. It's just not worth the effort to defend yourself. No one thinks you're a liar. If anything your rigorously honest.....Who admits they scratch MIL's crotch.

Hey, one good thing about hubs caring for her, he'll either rig up a long stick with a fork duct taped to the end or hand her the broom......no more coochie scratching for you!
(You smile here) 😁
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CTNN... I never said that we were paying off her debt to make anyone happy or so they get theirs. I have no idea how you got that out of what I said. I said they'll be here with their hands out wanting what is left. There will be nothing left and I don't want to be any part of the finances so it doesn't come back on me when there's nothing left. If his brother wants to be a jerk then he can sue us for half of everything spent on her claiming fraud or undue influence. I don't think he would do that but my husband and I have separate accounts and I don't want my name on anything to do with her finances. Yes we're married and it could be argued that I knew and was part of anything they could make accusations about but her finances and their inheritance is between them and I want no parts of it. People say stand up and say no and when I do say no to something then people come up with their own interpretation and say "really".

"So you're paying off her debts to keep the brother and his wife happy and make sure they get something in the end? Really? "

Please do tell where I said anything about making sure they get something and trying to make them happy because nowhere did I say that. They don't deserve anything because they aren't helping at all and didn't visit her in the hospital or even after she got here. They're just mad at my husband for not putting her in a home and not washing his hands of her.

Dysfunctional? What family isn't. Either I'm exaggerating and trying to make things sound perfect or we're dysfunctional. Which is it because it can't be both? I'll go with dysfunctional because his family was dysfunctional long before I became part of it. Hell... my family is dysfunctional but it doesn't mean we all need to go to a family counselor. I'm pretty sure that many on this site don't have a perfect life and have some dysfunction in their lives or they wouldn't be here looking for advice.
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jeannegibbs Jul 2018
And your point is?
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I don't know how much planning needs to be done, or how much lead time needs to be given, but I think you should take the trip on very short notice (no notice at all would be better). With manipulative people, you can't give them any advance time to muck things up. We have a mid-week holiday this week, so DH probably has a long weekend.
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I think when you're overtired, dejected and demoralised everything feels like a criticism. Misery, nobody doubts for one moment that you're in a very sticky situation, and you feel trapped by it. What we're trying to do is point out some escape routes, that's all.

And we're not pretending the escape routes are easy, either. But even if changing things is hard work, it's still going to be better than leaving it be, isn't it?
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Misery, I don't see where anyone called you a fake or a liar.

Can you point that post out to me so that I can report it?
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There arent that many posts that get the number of responses you have received in a short period. There have been alot of great suggestions. No one thinks this is the way life should be. Sadly it is for you presently but maybe in time with guidance you can find some relief. Any relief would be better than the current situation.
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I'm sure that many of you think that I'm not being honest because you don't know me and everyone makes their life look better on social media than it really is but everything I posted is the truth. You don't believe it that's your right but as long as I know it's true that's all that matters.

As for me making excuses... sounds like it but nope. That's how the system works here. Take it or leave it... believe it or don't. That's your right. I didn't come here for pity or to be called a liar in a round about way. I came for guidance but I've realized over the past few years that most people nowadays prefer to judge and only believe what they feel is true even when the truth is right in front of them they'll still call it fake. Hey that's the world we live in now.
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jeannegibbs Jul 2018
Misery, I don't think you are lying at all. Never did. But that doesn't mean you aren't delusional on certain subjects. Or just plain wrong. Being wrong is not the same as being dishonest.

I think you are being overly judgemental about the responses you are getting. If you believe that we are only offering pity or accusations, and that that is the way the world is, why did you come here?

You came for guidance. You came saying, "I'm miserable. My house is no longer my home. I'm just a slave in my own home."

Have you found any guidance whatsoever in any of our responses?
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Contact National Debt Relief and have all her debts consolidated. They will arrange to have a certain amount withdrawn from her account each month and negotiate with her creditors. If the creditors agree to accept a settlement she will be debt free in a year to 18 months.

We understand that this is a toxic situation. Reading your reactions to our advice, we also understand that you will not take the drastic measures needed to put your family back together. The advice to bring her back to her own home and call APS at this point is what you need to do. Flapping and doodling about all the nasty things you have to do, including the finances is ok, that’s what we are here for. But if you don’t take our advice there isn’t much we can do to help. And if I were your husband I would never have taken on the responsibilities of being POA.
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Your MIL is mentally ill, in case you don't realize that. She needs A LOT more help than family, ANY family can give.

Have a good trip; don't let ANYTHING deter you from this.
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Barb I will. I talked to my mom last night and we're making plans and I informed my MIL last night that I was going away for a little while. She tried to say her son wouldn't be able to give her her shots and test her blood because he gags at the sight of blood. I told her nice try but he isn't bothered by blood and he just does that to mess with her. I told her that she wouldn't get the level of care that I give her but my mom needs help and this is something we've been doing every summer since my dad passed. Am I worried that my husband won't give her the same level of care? A little but that's not my problem. I have a mother too and every summer even before my dad passed we would go stay with them and go out drinking by the pool and shopping and eating and to the boardwalk and beach. I'm glad I get to go given this situation and yes I'm going. I wouldn't have told my mother I was if I wasn't.

As for my son... no I don't vent to him. I sit down and ask him how he feels, if anything is bothering him, and what he wants. I raised my son with honesty. He doesn't care if it's going to hurt your feelings so he tells it like it is. I introduced him to the real world from the beginning with no safe spaces and to tell the truth. Yes it upsets him this whole situation. He point blank told me that me and my husband will go into a home but visit because he's not going to do all this. I told him that's what he should do and that I would never expect him to do what I'm doing for me because I want him to live his life. My husband told him the same. Yes the situation upsets my son but he does understand. I try the best I can to keep his life as normal as possible even though it's not but I allow his friends over everyday to go swimming and play and even stay the night. Their parents help by taking him places and even to his boy scouts when I can't. She tries to boss him around and tell him what to do and be quite when he's loud but I told him prior to her coming here to not change anything and just ignore her so he tells her no and walks away. She yells at my dogs and cats but they ignore her too. Lol

Anyway again thanks for everything. I appreciate everyone's bluntness and no offense was taken. I've always been a true believer in telling it like it is and being honest even if people aren't going to like it. So again thank you all.
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My head is spinning....

" I don't want to have anything to do with her finances because when she passes her other son is going to want half of whatever is left and I don't want my name signed to anything because I don't want to be accused of anything. My husband's brother and his wife want nothing to do with it because they're mad that she gave away all their inheritance that their father promised to them to a bunch of loser strangers and wouldn't help them in a time of need."

So you're paying off her debts to keep the brother and his wife happy and make sure they get something in the end? Really?

You and your H have enabled this sick, sick woman and have also been greatly taken advantage of (especially you, since you're the main caregiver).

YOU SCRATCH HER PRIVATES FOR HER?

This has all gotten way, way out of hand. You have lots of excuses for why you can't do what you know needs to be done. I suggest marriage counseling -- there must be great dysfunction for this whole scenario to get to where it is now.

I'm glad you will be going away with your 11 y/o son. He needs YOU. HE is your priority, and NOT MIL. She is on the path to self-destruction by her own choice -- why get in the way of that? She's competent to make her own decisions, as all the professionals keep telling you.

And YOU are competent to make YOUR own decisions. Think of your son.
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You take her back to that house, my dear.

That's where she lives from now on.

She's capable, remember?

Drop her off and call APS. I'm dead serious.
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