I need help. Two children have the money to return to the state but the third does not, can the state go after the other two to make up the difference? Thank you so much.
It's not so much that they go after anyone to repay the money, it's more that they will not pay her nursing home bills until the penalty period is over, and the family will have to come up with a plan to make up the shortfall.
If mom “has a sizable estate”,she won’t be eligible for Medicaid. Medicaid is a verifiable “at need” program & really they will basically have to be impoverished to ever qualify. Under 2k in nonexempt assets and within whatever your state has set for monthly income (most under $2100). Homestead is exempt asset if under Medicaid value limits but she will have no-nada-none $ to ever pay on any property costs.
If mom does have a sizable estate, mom needs to pay for an NAELA level elder law atty to review her situation. & asap.
Whomever is moms dpoa is going to be stuck dealing with this. Mom is the one who has the gifting or transfer penalty placed on her. She gave the $; it falls to her responsibility. Not the kids. Which means usually that moms dpoa ends up dealing with either private paying the NH to get beyond the penalty period OR they move mom back home OR into their home or into the home of the giftee till beyond the transfer penalty period.
I’ve been on this site for a while and stuff like this happens often enough. Often scenario is grannie paying for grandkids college or wedding. Or $ given to worthless usually drug dependent kid. The $ was a true gift and not done by fraud or coercion. There’s probably no real recourse; their not gonna pay the $. The NH bill is not their problem. It’s the dpoa’s problem.
So choices are stark as the transfer penalty is set. If it’s just 13k, perhaps you get them to pay or get family to all contribute to get penalty period over. 13k is maybe just a couple of months of private pay. I’m not trying to sound all snippy but most transfer penalties are that mom gifted their 200k/ 300k home. That’s serious panic for the dpoa. 13k...try / guiltify to get giftee to pay. Good luck with your family.
If your mother has enough money to pay for her own care, then there won't be any penalty period involved because the application won't get that far. She will be way above the maximum asset level. If she tries to get below that maxium by giving her money away (to children or anyone else), she won't be eligible for Medicaid assistance until a penalty period is up.
The best way to approach this is to consult an attorney who specializes in Elder Law.
As we've advised, you need a certified Eldercare attorney who understands Medicaid law. The accountant has skimmed the page; you want someone who has actually read the material and mastered it.
Mom can’t apply for Medicaid till she’s impoverished, which for LTC NH means a max of 2k in assets. She can’t “cover the loss”.
My understanding of transfer penalty is that once placed is done by period of time based on $ amount. It’s a math problem. Your state has a figure that is the Medicaid day rate for room & board. Like for my mom when she entered a NH & onto Medicaid was about $145 a day, which is low R&B. Average R&B is around $175 a day. So 13k at $175 day means basically 75 days / 2 1/2 months of medicaid ineligibility in which moms stay at the NH will have to be private pay.
Date of Medicaid application starts the 5 year look-back and penalty placement.
In the past, years ago, transfers could be placed by date of gift if a state wanted to do that approach. When Bush era DRA (deficit reduction act of 2005) done it uniformed Medicaid rules for states on requirements for estate recovery, penalties, etc. So now TP all get set from date of application.
The home would be child caregiver's if he provided medically necessary care for a period of two years, in some states. But that did especially not mean that Medicaid will not file liens on the house to be recovered when bro is no longer there. Those rules may also be effected if bro owns his own home.
Like others have said you NEED an elder law attorney on mom's state to help you understand state specific regulations.
If bro is medically necessary caregiver, also talk to attorney about a care agreement to pay him. If that payment is planned to be the house, it won't really be his if mom needs Medicaid at any point in this journey. It would belong to Medicaid by virtue of liens through the MERP program
Not a do it yourself project. Get an elder law attorney, NAELA certified.
And that two year rule only applies if she is admitted to a nursing home assisted living or memory care do not qualify at least in my state.
Medicaid is a verifiable “at need” program & really they will basically have to be impoverished to ever qualify. Under 2k in nonexempt assets and within whatever your state has set for monthly income (most under $2100). Homestead is exempt asset if under Medicaid value limits but she will have no-nada-none $ to ever pay on any property costs.
If mom does have a sizable estate, mom needs to pay for an NAELA level elder law atty to review her situation. & asap.
Mom is the one who has the gifting or transfer penalty placed on her. She gave the $; it falls to her responsibility. Not the kids. Which means usually that moms dpoa ends up dealing with either private paying the NH to get beyond the penalty period OR they move mom back home OR into their home or into the home of the giftee till beyond the transfer penalty period.
I’ve been on this site for a while and stuff like this happens often enough. Often scenario is grannie paying for grandkids college or wedding. Or $ given to worthless usually drug dependent kid. The $ was a true gift and not done by fraud or coercion. There’s probably no real recourse; their not gonna pay the $. The NH bill is not their problem. It’s the dpoa’s problem.
So choices are stark as the transfer penalty is set. If it’s just 13k, perhaps you get them to pay or get family to all contribute to get penalty period over. 13k is maybe just a couple of months of private pay. I’m not trying to sound all snippy but most transfer penalties are that mom gifted their 200k/ 300k home. That’s serious panic for the dpoa. 13k...try / guiltify to get giftee to pay. Good luck with your family.
The best way to approach this is to consult an attorney who specializes in Elder Law.
My understanding of transfer penalty is that once placed is done by period of time based on $ amount. It’s a math problem. Your state has a figure that is the Medicaid day rate for room & board. Like for my mom when she entered a NH & onto Medicaid was about $145 a day, which is low R&B. Average R&B is around $175 a day. So 13k at $175 day means basically 75 days / 2 1/2 months of medicaid ineligibility in which moms stay at the NH will have to be private pay.
In the past, years ago, transfers could be placed by date of gift if a state wanted to do that approach. When Bush era DRA (deficit reduction act of 2005) done it uniformed Medicaid rules for states on requirements for estate recovery, penalties, etc. So now TP all get set from date of application.
Like others have said you NEED an elder law attorney on mom's state to help you understand state specific regulations.
If bro is medically necessary caregiver, also talk to attorney about a care agreement to pay him. If that payment is planned to be the house, it won't really be his if mom needs Medicaid at any point in this journey. It would belong to Medicaid by virtue of liens through the MERP program
Not a do it yourself project. Get an elder law attorney, NAELA certified.
And that two year rule only applies if she is admitted to a nursing home assisted living or memory care do not qualify at least in my state.
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