maybe the comfort meds stop breathing and hearts in some cases but i think in most , the meds merely render a person unconscious as the dying process plays out . we would do the same for an animal without much hesitation .
You mean would we prefer to cling tooth and nail to life even if it was a misery of physical pain and mental anguish? Your question presupposes that people who have opted for suicide or physician assisted death do so out of a belief that they will be reborn; while that may comfort some I'm pretty sure that many others just want the misery to end and recognize the reality that death is an inevitable fact and will come for them sooner or later no matter what they do. (And contrary to what you may choose to believe there is no such thing as involuntary euthanasia in our society, that would be murder)
What difference does it make, I am ready to leave this life, as it is to remove myself from ongoing pain and suffering. We are all born to die, I accept that.
I agree, what does it matter. When your in so much pain, you just want it to stop. And, just my opinion people, to choose this way out means you are not that devout. There is all kinds of scenarios here.
Euthanasia means killing someone on purpose to end their misery. Involuntary means without permission. Therefore, "involuntary euthanasia" means someone is killed without their permission, aka murder.
Hopefully you are not talking about a loved one who passed away under hospice care....... because there are tons of threads debating hospice going on here all the time.
If I were suffering, I would want to die regardless of whether I believe in eternal life or not. Endless suffering is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. As far as sedation goes, bring it on! Again, if I were in pain at the end of my life, I wouldn't argue with being sedated to calm my anxiety. Not one bit
I watched a friend die screaming in pain and I would never wish anyone to experience what she had to go through. The only time she wasn't in complete mind blowing pain is when she was completely sedated.
I heard her cries for months in my dreams, it still breaks my heart what she went through.
I am a devout believer in Jesus as my Saviour and Lord and I believe that we were given medicine for our benefit.
If I am dying and palliative care will help ease my death for my loved ones, because watching someone suffer and scream in agony is traumatizing to see, then by all means keep me sedated.
I can't imagine that it matters much when you are dying if you think that is it if you are in agony, what would you be holding on to? It's not like you are going to get young if you live in agony long enough, you are going to die.
I guess we will all know what is at the end of life at one point or another. I personally choose to believe that God is alive and HIS promises are real.
I do not believe in an afterlife. I have never in all my 77 years. Yes, I am for a merciful death, for euthanasia upon our request, and for palliative care of all kinds. We live and we die. All things live and they die. A leaf buds, unfolds, and dies, returning to the earth to nourish others leaves in their time. I spent my life as a nurse. I have zero fear of death. But I do fear suffering.
Whether or not a person believes in life after death, has nothing to do with being provided comfort during the last days and hours of life.
I know of two people who have chosen Medical Assistance in Dying MAiD here in Canada. They were at a point where living was unbearable and they knew things would only get worse.
My Step Dad, was a religious man and welcomed visits from his Minister while he was on Palliative care. He also had morphine and other medications to make his last breaths more comfortable.
My former husband has an uncle dying of cancer and his wife refused to allow him to have morphine for the pain. He screamed in agony if touched, moved etc. That was not a good death. He did not believe if an afterlife, but the screams were from bones that broke due to the spreading cancer.
Of coarse ! Always relieve my pain if possible. And if in doing so, the high dosage required might hasten my inevitable death, then thank you very much for that compassion. We are often kinder to pets at the end of their lives than we are to the people we love.
There is no such thing as ‘involuntary euthanasia’, at least not since Hitler murdered millions and wrongly called some of it ‘euthanasia’. ‘Palliative sedation’ is the sleeping tablets I take when my back is too painful to sleep, and I am grateful for it. I think you have made up your mind that this is wrong, without taking the trouble to check meanings in the dictionary. Perhaps the angels will help to explain things for you in due course.
We euthanize cats and dogs so they won’t be in pain. Why not people? If they are dying and in pain why not euthanize or morphine to end the pain. We do it with animals. It doesn’t matter if there is an after life or not. It doesn’t have anything to do with euthanasia or palliative sedation.
I do believe in an afterlife and I would still believe in ending/easing the transition of life/pain (NOT murder!) if the time of death was near. I wouldn’t want to lie in bed, in agony or suffering, even if there WASN’T a heaven! I’m not afraid of death, but I am afraid of suffering to reach that point. I want no feeding tubes, ventilator, etc keeping here me on this earth.
Been thinking about this odd question and reading the responses over the past couple of days.
The logic of not using comfort care measures to ease pain at end of life is kind of like saying we won't take Tylenol or other pain killers NOW, while we're alive and NOT dying either, because hey, easing pain is a non-religious thing to do. Makes NO sense whatsoever, no matter how it's looked at! 99% of us DO take Tylenol and Novocaine while at the dentist, right? I know I do, and I fully believe in the afterlife, and in God, 100%.
People love to say how the God of their understanding is compassionate, understanding and forgiving, yet is also harsh, mean and unforgiving because He would never allow us to 'shorten our lives' here on Earth, or ease our own pain, or do anything that might actually BE compassionate, understanding or forgiving........towards ourselves! Does that logic only apply towards others?
Make up your minds, folks. God is either understanding, compassionate and forgiving, or He is harsh, mean and unforgiving.........not both. If you believe in the former, then it's perfectly fine to ease your pain at the end of your life, and to even shorten it if the pain is unbearable, because your God is understanding, compassionate and forgiving.
Allow yourself to live and to die according to what feels right to YOU, and not according to what you think is 'right' or 'wrong'.
I'm very puzzled by this argument. Partly because I'm not sure why end of life meaning end of everything would make anything any worse (or better) than this distressing time is anyway; and partly because I generally associate people who are in favour of euthanasia (voluntary, mainly, though there has been the odd prosecution of overenthusiastic practitioners in Holland) with those who are also pretty confident there is no afterlife.
Their aim, overwhelmingly, is to minimise suffering. I personally feel that killing someone to that end is wrong, but all the same I don't suppose that people's primary motives are dishonourable just because I don't agree with them.
Involuntary euthanasia is murder. There is no jurisdiction anywhere which sanctions killing a person without that person's explicit consent (not counting capital punishment, self defence or legitimate warfare, obviously). I challenge you to name a single person who claims to "believe in" INvoluntary euthanasia as a legitimate approach to end of life care.
As for palliative sedation - I heard a Scottish doctor explain this point very well, I thought. He said: if we had methods of pain relief and sedation which were effective and did not shorten life, we would use them. As it is, we can only use what we have to relieve people's pain and distress; and we have to balance the risks of the drugs against the person's need for them.
How do you absolutely know there is no eternal life? Do you have faith enough to turn your life and your loved one over to the care of God? I promise you that if you meditate on God's Word (Bible) and you ask sincerely for God to show you some sign of His love and presence, you will recieve it! God loves you so much that He sent His son Jesus to die on a cross for our sinfulness. Ask Him to show you that there is hope and life ever lasting. As for ending someone's life without permission, I would rather have my LO on morphine to help ease the suffering but allow the person to die naturally.
When I first visited a nursing home during orientation for employment, it was unregulated by the state. The horrors I witnessed made me think it was "a concentration camp for old people" who were abandoned by families.
I believe in Better Life thru Chemistry.
I do not believe in keeping people alive by artificial means (Do Not Recessitate) unless that is what they want.
I do not believe in warehousing the elderly and disabled in nursing facilities that truly are in it for the money. You can tell by how they treat their staff to patient ratio, hourly salaries.
I believe in the right to die with dignity, and it does not have to be with Euthanasia.
I believe in morphine drip for dying for patients in mental or physical pain.
I like your answer. Your beliefs are very practical yet moral. I executed that with my mother who recently passed away. Hospice at home, with Lewy Body Dementia. Hospice gave her Haldol to contain her agitation. She lasted exactly 1 month at home after discharge from Hospital. As you may know, Haldol is counter indicated to be given to elderly with Lewy Body dementia. The Haldol was used to alleviate her agitation in her desire to go, go , go somewhere out of the bed but go. Nowhere but go. The Haldol was 1 Ml when needed.. (roughly every 4 to 6 hrs). Do you think the Haldol might have don it?
You have to have your paperwork DNR / Living Will / List of Current Medications before the ambulance arrives. Doctors should be able to access situation and make a call on hospice or morphine drip, especially if patient is conscious.
If you are appointed to be the Angel of Death (health power of attorney) be prepared to face opposition of absent family members who feel guilty and need to make their peace and refuse the DNR. They will show up crying, fighting and carrying on due to faith, morality, guilt and not being able to face death.
Make sure the people who deny DNR are there to wipe your ass when you lay in bed half dead and incontinent.
I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in afterlife 100%. I believe in easing pain and suffering through medicines, but do not believe in assisted suicide. I do not believe in the death penalty. I believe there is a time to be born and a time to die. I had a few spiritual experiences I will share with you. I was on the road one very slippery winter day and my car went out of control, I was heading for another car head-on car was spinning around and almost hit the guard rail when I called out to Jesus , my steering wheel at that moment was taken over and guided the car to the side of the road and stopped. I was very upset but knew it was Jesus that helped me out of a very dangerous situation. A woman was hurt in another car and I got out to help her until an ambulance came along. I will never forget this experience as long as I live. My mother was in the ER not speaking, not responding on an Easter morning, told family to go to church and pray. Doctor wanted me to make a decision. Doctor left room and I prayed The Our Father, moments later my mother started talking, and was responding as usual , doctor came in the room and could not believe his eyes, I explained to him. No treatment necessary. The power of God.
How can one possibly know for sure if there is an after life or how would you describe or characterize it? Would it satisfy your sense of it? What I do believe is that the spirit of a person lives on in our memories of them. If it was a person we cherished our sense of them is stronger and one we keep closer to our heart. If the opposite the memories of them are not thought of with fondness.
A life that is determined to be terminal and accompanied with chronic pain is not one that should be forced to be continued in that manner. The person enduring such should have the right to make the choice to end the suffering and not be held to beliefs of others who are not experiencing the same.
My mom is 88 years old, she broke her hip 7 weeks ago and has severe dementia and depression. She is constantly agitated and screams at my brother and her caretakers every day. When she speaks to me on the phone, in her moments of clarity she says she just wants to die and to be left alone. She feels like her caretakers are harassing her when they try to get her to eat a meal, use her walker, shower or do her exercises. She says she only has a short time left and she wants to stop suffering. She screams for more wine until my brother caves and lets her have 4-5 glasses and she gets a little drunk. She insists she's ready for the grave now. Are we just prolonging her suffering? I don't think euthanasia is an option in Maryland?
Please tell me what is involuntary euthanasia. This question doesn’t make sense to me.
It isn’t the same as assisted suicide which some people desire to have and request.
Involuntary suggests against someone’s will. Wouldn’t that be illegal.
I don’t believe in allowing a person to suffer and a person can choose palliative care to lessen or end their pain while dying but this involuntary situation confuses me. Why are you asking about palliative sedation and involuntary euthanasia in the same question? Do you feel if the person is sedated they can’t defend themselves against the involuntary euthanasia?
I am also confused about what difference it would make if the person is a believer or not. It would still be against their will. Are you asking so there wouldn’t be guilt associated with the action? I hope a person contemplating this action would question doing such a thing against someone’s will as evil. It just sounds crazy to me.
I just read your profile. It says that you are a caregiver. I urge you to speak to a mental health professional and maybe a clergyman to have your questions about the afterlife addressed.
Whew! What a loaded question you have asked. For me it’s quite disturbing to read.
Have you witnessed involuntary euthanasia? Guess I am thinking that there must be a backstory to this question. Am I right?
Your question presupposes that people who have opted for suicide or physician assisted death do so out of a belief that they will be reborn; while that may comfort some I'm pretty sure that many others just want the misery to end and recognize the reality that death is an inevitable fact and will come for them sooner or later no matter what they do.
(And contrary to what you may choose to believe there is no such thing as involuntary euthanasia in our society, that would be murder)
Hopefully you are not talking about a loved one who passed away under hospice care....... because there are tons of threads debating hospice going on here all the time.
If I were suffering, I would want to die regardless of whether I believe in eternal life or not. Endless suffering is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. As far as sedation goes, bring it on! Again, if I were in pain at the end of my life, I wouldn't argue with being sedated to calm my anxiety. Not one bit
I heard her cries for months in my dreams, it still breaks my heart what she went through.
So I am in complete agreement lealonnie.
If I am dying and palliative care will help ease my death for my loved ones, because watching someone suffer and scream in agony is traumatizing to see, then by all means keep me sedated.
I can't imagine that it matters much when you are dying if you think that is it if you are in agony, what would you be holding on to? It's not like you are going to get young if you live in agony long enough, you are going to die.
I guess we will all know what is at the end of life at one point or another. I personally choose to believe that God is alive and HIS promises are real.
I know of two people who have chosen Medical Assistance in Dying MAiD here in Canada. They were at a point where living was unbearable and they knew things would only get worse.
My Step Dad, was a religious man and welcomed visits from his Minister while he was on Palliative care. He also had morphine and other medications to make his last breaths more comfortable.
My former husband has an uncle dying of cancer and his wife refused to allow him to have morphine for the pain. He screamed in agony if touched, moved etc. That was not a good death. He did not believe if an afterlife, but the screams were from bones that broke due to the spreading cancer.
We are often kinder to pets at the end of their lives than we are to the people we love.
The logic of not using comfort care measures to ease pain at end of life is kind of like saying we won't take Tylenol or other pain killers NOW, while we're alive and NOT dying either, because hey, easing pain is a non-religious thing to do. Makes NO sense whatsoever, no matter how it's looked at! 99% of us DO take Tylenol and Novocaine while at the dentist, right? I know I do, and I fully believe in the afterlife, and in God, 100%.
People love to say how the God of their understanding is compassionate, understanding and forgiving, yet is also harsh, mean and unforgiving because He would never allow us to 'shorten our lives' here on Earth, or ease our own pain, or do anything that might actually BE compassionate, understanding or forgiving........towards ourselves! Does that logic only apply towards others?
Make up your minds, folks. God is either understanding, compassionate and forgiving, or He is harsh, mean and unforgiving.........not both. If you believe in the former, then it's perfectly fine to ease your pain at the end of your life, and to even shorten it if the pain is unbearable, because your God is understanding, compassionate and forgiving.
Allow yourself to live and to die according to what feels right to YOU, and not according to what you think is 'right' or 'wrong'.
Their aim, overwhelmingly, is to minimise suffering. I personally feel that killing someone to that end is wrong, but all the same I don't suppose that people's primary motives are dishonourable just because I don't agree with them.
Involuntary euthanasia is murder. There is no jurisdiction anywhere which sanctions killing a person without that person's explicit consent (not counting capital punishment, self defence or legitimate warfare, obviously). I challenge you to name a single person who claims to "believe in" INvoluntary euthanasia as a legitimate approach to end of life care.
As for palliative sedation - I heard a Scottish doctor explain this point very well, I thought. He said: if we had methods of pain relief and sedation which were effective and did not shorten life, we would use them. As it is, we can only use what we have to relieve people's pain and distress; and we have to balance the risks of the drugs against the person's need for them.
I believe in Better Life thru Chemistry.
I do not believe in keeping people alive by artificial means (Do Not Recessitate) unless that is what they want.
I do not believe in warehousing the elderly and disabled in nursing facilities that truly are in it for the money. You can tell by how they treat their staff to patient ratio, hourly salaries.
I believe in the right to die with dignity, and it does not have to be with Euthanasia.
I believe in morphine drip for dying for patients in mental or physical pain.
You can believe what you want.
I executed that with my mother who recently passed away. Hospice at home, with Lewy Body Dementia.
Hospice gave her Haldol to contain her agitation.
She lasted exactly 1 month at home after discharge from Hospital.
As you may know, Haldol is counter indicated to be given to elderly with Lewy Body dementia.
The Haldol was used to alleviate her agitation in her desire to go, go , go somewhere out of the bed but go. Nowhere but go.
The Haldol was 1 Ml when needed.. (roughly every 4 to 6 hrs).
Do you think the Haldol might have don it?
If you are appointed to be the Angel of Death (health power of attorney) be prepared to face opposition of absent family members who feel guilty and need to make their peace and refuse the DNR. They will show up crying, fighting and carrying on due to faith, morality, guilt and not being able to face death.
Make sure the people who deny DNR are there to wipe your ass when you lay in
bed half dead and incontinent.
A life that is determined to be terminal and accompanied with chronic pain is not one that should be forced to be continued in that manner. The person enduring such should have the right to make the choice to end the suffering and not be held to beliefs of others who are not experiencing the same.
It isn’t the same as assisted suicide which some people desire to have and request.
Involuntary suggests against someone’s will. Wouldn’t that be illegal.
I don’t believe in allowing a person to suffer and a person can choose palliative care to lessen or end their pain while dying but this involuntary situation confuses me. Why are you asking about palliative sedation and involuntary euthanasia in the same question? Do you feel if the person is sedated they can’t defend themselves against the involuntary euthanasia?
I am also confused about what difference it would make if the person is a believer or not. It would still be against their will. Are you asking so there wouldn’t be guilt associated with the action? I hope a person contemplating this action would question doing such a thing against someone’s will as evil. It just sounds crazy to me.
I just read your profile. It says that you are a caregiver. I urge you to speak to a mental health professional and maybe a clergyman to have your questions about the afterlife addressed.
Whew! What a loaded question you have asked. For me it’s quite disturbing to read.