Need some advice. I have a very small family. I'm 60, my brother 65, and our parents are both 90 - married 67 years. My brother entered the nursing home where I work almost a year ago (I'm not clinical - in administration). He lived his entire life with my parents. Due to his medical issues, he will not be returning home. My Dad has gotten progressively weaker over the past several years, and was housebound - my Mother doing the caregiving. About 5 months ago, my Dad became weak due to constipation and my mother sent him to the hospital and then to rehab. She told him she couldn't care for him anymore - and she was done with it. She left him in long-term care and I was given the task of getting him financially approved. She has spoken with him on the phone twice since then - no in person visits to either my brother or Dad (claims she doesn't like to be around sick people). This all occurred right at the time that nursing homes (mine included) went into lock-down due to the Covid pandemic.
My mother is a classic narcissist. We had a row about the fact that I was unwilling to quit my job and take care of her at home (I'm not financially able, or frankly, willing). Our relationship has always been strained. She got herself a caretaker (my age) that comes in several times a week who, in her words, "treats her like a baby and I just love it - she cooks for me, cleans, and tucks me into bed". I'm grateful that has been sorted out!
I'm having trouble coming to terms with how she can just wash her hands of people so quickly and easily. I witnessed it 30 years ago when she failed to come to her mother's funeral, and after her mother's death, she never had any contact again with her father.
I was at her house last weekend, and she gave me all my father's childhood photos - I didn't ask for them, she just wanted to get rid of them for some reason. She barely even speaks of him except to say "we had grown distant". I also had to remove the ashes of my aunt and uncle, even though they had been there for over 10 years because they made her feel "creepy". She's disposed of most of my brother's belongings because "he won't be coming back".
I just feel sad that it feels like whatever sort of "family" we had was just a sham - and it all fell apart over the course of just a few months. I feel sad at work when I see family members that come in to visit their elderly loved ones - they care! Intellectually I realize that this is a form of mental illness - this narcissism, but I just feel sad over the whole situation and I can't seem to move past the sadness.
After daddy died, suddenly there were no pictures of him in evidence, I never saw mother shed a tear. People who she met after he died just assumed she was a divorcee.
People who are totally self absorbed (narcissists) cannot think, feel or do anything unless it comes back to them in the form of praise or self aggrandizement.
Growing up, my mother always had lovely clothes, a huge house, anything she wanted, daddy provided.
I needed glasses and braces (typical kid things--not like I was asking for a Maserati or something) and I had my eyes checked ONCE when I was 9 and the glasses I got then had to last me 11 years. I paid for my own eye exam and contacts, which cost over $400 and this is back in 1972! The braces? Mom's will has a 'bill' in it that I am supposed to pay her trust back the cost of my braces before the will can be dealt with. She ENCOURAGED me to read her will, for years, and finally one day, out of boredom and waiting for her to get home, I did.
I was SO HURT that included in a will that forgives my YS a $60,000 'loan' a $1500 BILL for my braces. I put all 5 of my kids in braces and they sure as heck don't owe me a dime.
(My son is an attorney and I asked about this--since the codicil wasn't witnessed, it isn't legal. He called this a posthumous "FU" and people did it to have the last word. Still.)
Even now, at age 90, mother has to be the sparkly belle of the ball all the time. She wants to be the center of attention at all times. She sends cards to all the grandkids and great grands--not b/c she loves them, she hasn't even MET them all--but she does it so she gets the 'oh, N is SO SWEET'.
No, no she isn't.
I went through cancer last year. She did not make a single effort to contact me in the 8 months I was doing chemo. Not ONE PHONE CALL. Nothing. But she was getting massive amounts of attention at the Sr Center b/c 'oh, poor thing, she's worried sick about her daughter'.
I am at and have been at--the stage where I simply cannot invest any more energy in her or her life. She has lived with my YB and his family for 22 years. My SIL told me last week it has been the worst decision they ever made, and that she doesn't ever even talk to mother. How sad.
We cannot change these people. we can only set boundaries for ourselves. Mother is housebound, was before the isolation set in. She's starting showing serious signs of dementia--this is new, and I feel for YB who chose to bring her to his house and care for her. He will never put her in a NH, no matter what.
Honestly? I will not miss her, should she die. She's done so much emotional damage to a couple of us sibs--it will take some doing to forgive her.
Right now, I have just gone grey rock with her. She can't use her cellphone, so I am safe.
I am her worst trigger and she is mine.
There are so many things from years ago, that we will never know about, that added to our parents personalities. That was such a different time. How they had to deal with things as children, what they saw or heard, fears they had, or had to be quiet about, etc. This is what I call their makeup. And as they age this can be amplified!
So each time you start thinking, oh, I wish she was different.....STOP. She is who she is and with aging or dementia it will be even harder to understand, so don't even try. Just remember any special good thing or event to focus on. I have learned this after feeling the same as you, many times.
Whatever the reason, she had no qualms denying me the simplest of things as a child (my teeth and health have cost me a fortune from no braces, medical care etc) while buying herself the luxuries she was accustomed to.
Anyway, I've dug and dug and can find nothing negative in her life that would have caused her to be a narcissist.
Your advice is helpful though. Thanks.
Will it make you HAPPY, that this has been your lot? Not really. But this isn't within our realm of "choice". People do not change in the ways we wish them to change because we wish it to happen. Narcissism is a personality disorder, but it can also be considered somewhat disordered to refuse to grow up and set aside the expectations we had when we were helpless children, the needs we had then are not the needs of a grown person who has lived a life. We have two chances at a quality family. One we are born into. May work out. May not. The other is the one we CREATE, and that is on us.
Stop the struggle. Accept who she is. Form a relationship with her in which YOU decide how often and when to be present. Forgive her. Made a quality life. That is on you. Your responsiblity. She was incapable of helping you earlier, and she CERTAINLY is now.
The time to grieve all of this is more or less over at 60. That is the time to set yourself free. Enjoy living a life YOU choose on YOUR terms.
Wishing you all the luck in the world. For your Mom I can only feel sadness.
Take my mother (please!). She's 93 and I believe, incapable of love herself. She's done lots of the same things your mother has, such as getting rid of my father's things IMMEDIATELY after he died. She lied like a rug (as usual) telling me she had gathered a big bag of her stuff for Goodwill. What it actually was was a big bag of my father's stuff with a few pieces of HER stuff spread out on top to make it look like it was all hers. She also has no photos up of loved ones; has gotten rid of ALL of the family photos b/c they have no meaning to her nor do they serve a purpose. She doesn't even want the photo of her late husband of 68 years to be in her room at the ALF. She only speaks badly of my father when she does speak of him, which pisses me off immensely, because he was a kind and decent man. She too never attended her own mother's funeral OR any of the other funerals of her dead brothers, sisters or family members!!!
Nothing matters to mother but mother. I am an only child and at 63 next month, trust me when I tell you I have mourned the fact that I have a narcissistic type mother my whole life. I never had a mother I could talk to or confide in. A mother who would even try to understand who I was as a human being. Or a mother to encourage me to become somebody. Nope. Anything I tried to do she'd dissuade me from, telling me I couldn't do it so why try?
The way I look at is that SHE has a deficiency inside of HER. I do not have a deficiency inside of me, which is not to say I'm perfect, but I AM capable of love and acting like a decent human being. She is not. So I try to feel sympathy for her instead of resentment, and it's very very hard. Not easy at all. But if I don't figure out how to get rid of the resentment in ME and find forgiveness for HER, then she's ruined TWO lives (well, a lot more than 2, but you know what I mean). Resentment is like drinking poison & waiting for it to kill the other person. Right?
So I don't know how you move past the grief you're feeling except to work on finding forgiveness for your mother's mental illness. And to cut down your contact with the toxic behavior that emanates from her. And to put up an invisible shield of Godly protection around yourself every time you have to have an encounter with her, which is what I do. And I imagine holding up that shield to ward off all the bad vibes and ugliness that is pointed towards you during a visit or a phone call.
Wishing you the best of luck letting HER crap go and finding YOUR inner peace in the midst of the chaos.
The only approach that seems to work, in my experience, is to show the narcissist that they cannot achieve their objectives (whatever they might be). Sometimes they will simply walk away from trying to influence you when they see that they are wasting their time. All narcissists see themselves as "the centre of the universe"--the only person whose goals, attitudes and needs matter. Possibly, if they see they are not the center of your attention, they will leave them you alone. I hope so. Even if they become angry with you when you have limited (or no) contact with them, that is much less stressful than constantly being confronted with their unreasonable and irrational demands.
Prayers and hopes for a better future toward which you already look to be headed.
I wish you my Best!!! :)
But I welcome any suggestions. Thanks.
Really grill the therapist on what they know about narcissism (after you read about it online) because I've found a lot say they know everything but once you get in there and relate a horrible thing that your mother's done, the therapist questions it rather than helps you deal with it.
Too allow yourself to be her whipping post is on you...not her.
I'm sure she's also got some dementia going on. Go girl and be happy!
The worst part for me was that my mother, after me spending a lifetime doing for her, has thrown me away without a thought and knowing that I have no one and nothing. In retrospect, she never did help or care about me, during serious illness or any of life's ups and downs. It's hard for me to not continue to feel that I am utterly worthless, and that negatively affects every aspect of life.
Once you sign up for any of the narcissist stuff online, you'll get a plethora of info. Most of it is geared towards identifying a narcissist, but once in a while a helpful tip comes along or you may find an online group where chats can be a support for you. Wishing you the best.
Try as best you can to put the negative thoughts about yourself, which are an extension of HER out of your head. Focus on what you do for others and yourself instead! We ALL have worth in life. Many of us deal with those who try to tear us down, whether they are family, "friends", coworkers or just some random person. YOU know yourself better than anyone, YOU know what you do for others, how you work, how you care. Don't let what others think of you define yourself!
It took me a good 30 years to figure out that no one out there is really any better than I am. Some smarter in certain areas, some more adept at sports or fixing things, etc, but we ALL have some worth in life! I don't consider myself perfect, far from it, but I am not what my mother, father, brothers or anyone else think I am. If possible, avoid those who try to put you down and surround yourself with caring people!
Emotions are magnified when it's up to a narcissist to do all the caregiving with no help from the family. Is it any wonder that by the time her husband passed or sent to a home, She was already burned out, exhausted, worn down, depressed etc?
By the time her job was over, she's wanting to erase any and all memories of that horrible time for her. Could it be she wasn't as much of a narcissist as you think she was? She cared for someone24/7 besides herself. Did she have help? Probably not much.
Another thing...what kind of a marriage did they have? Was she forced to comply with his wishes?
Was she a so called narcissist because she was trying to eek out any time for herself because she was so consumed by a demanding husband and children?
I'm in no way implying this is what went on but I've come from a 46 year abusive relationship with demanding children whom I love dearly and gave everything I had to all of them. There was nothing left for me. Once the kids were grown and gone, ( all turned out to be highly respected and well behaved adults) then here came the MIL that needed care giving. Then my own mother. Then husband got sick so there was more caregiving. He only wanted me to care for him. He finally passed 4 years later. At that point I was relieved of all my responsibilities that now I could concentrate only on myself and my needs. I also got rid of his stuff. No pictures on my wall of him. I do have1 picture of him in a corner I rarely go but it is only for my families sake. I'm free at last. I'm now able to do all those things I was never been able to before. If that makes me a narcissist, then so be it. I've served my time taking care of everyone else but me. Now it's time for me. Grief strikes and affects folks in many ways. I also grew up with a mom that never told us she loved us or was proud of us. I realize she done the best she could. I love myself. I'm a good person. I no longer feel the need to hear it from anyone. If they don't like me oh well. I can look at myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am....a person who at the young age of 18, became an army medical specialist and have taken care of people all my life because I felt that was my calling. Now I get to take care of me. I'm soaring.
Don't let your mom drag you down. Lift yourself up. You've done the best you can so get on with life. It's way to short. Best of luck to you always.
I did get a little chuckle out of your self assessment - all I could picture was Stuart Smalley looking into the mirror saying "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!" Although this is an old SNL reference and Mr Franklin has been disparaged for some poor choices from years ago, the skit is so apropos! It really does say it all - you have to assess your own self worth and self care, and not base your image on what anyone else says or thinks!
Between lack of parental support and an abusive OB, I was VERY self-conscious and had little self esteem. It took me almost 30 years to get beyond all that. Far from being perfect, I CAN look in the mirror and feel that I AM good enough, I AM smart enough and indeed people DO like me!!! (for those who don't, I consider it their loss and try my best to avoid them - we don't need additional negativity in our life! It's too short to deal with that!!!)
Children of narcissistic parents have low self esteem, don't trust their own feelings, and think their worth is measured only by their "usefulness" to others. Narcissists use their children for their own selfish purposes, never thinking (or not caring if they do) of the consequences to the child.
Give up the dream of a loving mother. She will not, cannot change. I resigned myself to the fact that my mother was and is mentally ill, incapable of real love and was totally unequipped for motherhood. History bears out the reality. I forgive her for the self-doubt she sewed, the innocence she stole, the love she denied. The manipulative puppet-master tactics, the discord she sewed in our family; the sick, twisted punishments when we didn't comply. The friends and relationships she destroyed or compromised.
Let it go if you can, but remember: forgiveness doesn't include providing opportunity and access to keep hurting you over and over. Do what you must to protect yourself.
Become your own mother. Cultivate self-care by taking care of your own health, mental and physical. Collect people and activities that bring you joy, peace, and positivity. Discard the rest.
It took me many years to arrive at what peace I have. It's a process. You can read between the lines; there is bitterness still. But I'm working on it. One tear at a time. And you can too! (((Hugs)))
The whole situation is sad, and she will not change. So I suggest you visit your father and brother when you can, and move on with your life. She is dealing with things her way. Its good she offered the old photos and other items to you instead of just throwing them away.
Ccounseling may be helpful for you too. It's never too late.
Best of luck to you.
As the saying goes (something like this):
You can pick your nose, you can pick your seat, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family!!
I wouldn't categorize my mother as narcissist, but she was lacking some skills that I would have preferred she have! Many methods of raising kids and punishing were learned traits. Too many people follow in their parents' footsteps - I often read comments from people that say my parents did this or that and I turned out okay! Maybe it worked for that person, but for me, I swore I would NOT raise my kids like that! Physical punishment, to me, is just a lame excuse for being abusive. It didn't make me a "better" person, it made me hate my parents! You also can't let kids run wild, so I had to use my smarts to get them to understand what was okay and what wasn't, both at home and out in the world. No rules really, just strong advisories and warnings that actions do have consequences! Worked for me and I didn't have to be a heavy handed mom!
Anyway... yes, it is sad to feel like your "family" life was a sham, but understand it was nothing you did. Although I don't consider mom a narcissist, OB is a different story. He was abusive to me when we were growing up (physical, verbal, emotional.) I thought he got over that, but I thought wrong. During his last trip here to help clear out mom's condo so we could sell it, he proved that he is still that same abusive little jerk, just a lot older and bigger! So, he is no longer welcome anywhere near me, ever!
Even before this incident, I found myself getting angry with both brothers and their lack of understanding about how to manage mom, her care and the condo. I started an email draft to each one to express how I felt and periodically added to them. In the end, I never sent them - they still sit in my draft folder, untouched for several years now! It was in some way cathartic for me. I was able to get it out into the email and expunge it! I realized my anger was not hurting them, only me! So, I had to get it out and let it go. I still resent some of their behaviors and lack of concern for/care of our mother, but they are who they are. I don't react to it and move on. Sending the emails would not have improved anything. More than likely it would just escalate things, so I leave the emails there and move on with my existence! OB, as far as I am concerned, is no longer welcome in my life. Once mom passes, YB will end up there as well. He isn't nearly as bad, but leaves a lot to be desired sometimes (snarky almost abusive texts, not responding to important issues, trying to get out of taking mom for necessary treatment, etc - he is, after all, also POA for mom. OB is not, thankfully!)
We don't need negative or abusive people in our lives. Forgive? Maybe. Maybe not. Why should I have to forgive them for their behavior? Forget? Some. We can't forgive and/or forget all, lest we end up reliving the cycle and repeat mistakes! For me, they are all who they are. I can't change them and have no desire to try anymore. I have enough to do to manage my own life and mom's, plus stay in touch with my kids. Once mom is gone, I can use that time for myself and all the things I had planned or hoped to do when I retired, plus spend more time with my kids, once the restrictions go away!
Don't be hard on yourself. Focus on the good things in your life and let the rest hang out to dry! I also wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to understand how others think or react. It is their life, their choices and you can't really change any of that, only how you react to it!
I don't know how to get past the grief of what never was other than to try to accept that they have a mental illness.
Take comfort knowing your pain is understood by so many of us daughters of narcissistic mothers.
Be thankful you don't have to live with her.
I understand exactly what you all are experiencing. I’ve been seeking answers for awhile and found this book titled Will I ever be good enough? By KARYL McBride. It is help me sort out so many things regarding my narcissistic mother in assisted living and I’m also in therapy sorting out the grief that goes with it. Lots of praying helps too. Yvonne
It's OK to be sad. As a daughter of a narcissistic father who is doing his best at hurting everyone around him before he dies I understand (well I think I do) how you feel.
I let myself cry all the time now, it's better out than in.
I too look at normal families and get upset (we were and have never been normal) but the fact is no one is normal.
Unfortunately for us, our parents have a mental health condition that can't be treated and part of the symptom is their complete lack of empathy towards others.
I get sad every day, and I'm OK with that.
I talk to a counsellor a couple of times a month, and tell friends the terrible stuff, to vent, sure, but to also hear people's reaction to my fathers' behaviour. Every time someone is speechless or shocked I think "It's not me, I'm not overly sensitive, his behaviour is atrocious" and it helps me move away from him mentally.
Your Mother's behaviour towards her husband and son is terrible, cold and heartless. There you have it, she leaves people behind when she no longer has a use for them. She did it to her parents, now her husband and child.
Please be careful around her. She can't be trusted. She's not safe.
She doesn't have your best interests at heart.
For years I worked with severely autistic children and young adults, and I learnt to ignore negative "behaviours" because to challenge them or try and change them would lead to violent outbursts.
Just recently I wondered why I didn't approach my father this way. As someone who suffers a behavioural/emotional disability, and who will never change. Yes because he's my father I wanted his love, admiration, empathy. All things he doesn't have to give.
I'v been angry and sad for years. And he doesn't care.
Now I have cut my losses. He can't be a father. Never could. And I'm not willing to be a "good" daughter, I am willing and able to be good to myself and show myself love and compassion, by keeping away from him.
Take good care of yourself. Don't waste any more energy on your mother, she's not worth it.
From my understanding narcissistic people are wire differently then you and I. They don't have empathy or sympathy. They think very highly of them selves but have a very fragile ego. They take no responsibility for anything they say or do--it's always someone else's fault! The world is wrong and they are right and that is that!!
I am just very sorry that you have to feel this horrible unspeakable pain. Your not alone! There is so many of us on here with heartless mothers.
Let yourself cry over the lost of your family and the lose of what you thought you had...over the mother you wish you had! That is what I have done. These mothers cheat everybody (in the family) out of so much and they have no insight at the pain & damage that they cause.
Hugs!!