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Need some advice. I have a very small family. I'm 60, my brother 65, and our parents are both 90 - married 67 years. My brother entered the nursing home where I work almost a year ago (I'm not clinical - in administration). He lived his entire life with my parents. Due to his medical issues, he will not be returning home. My Dad has gotten progressively weaker over the past several years, and was housebound - my Mother doing the caregiving. About 5 months ago, my Dad became weak due to constipation and my mother sent him to the hospital and then to rehab. She told him she couldn't care for him anymore - and she was done with it. She left him in long-term care and I was given the task of getting him financially approved. She has spoken with him on the phone twice since then - no in person visits to either my brother or Dad (claims she doesn't like to be around sick people). This all occurred right at the time that nursing homes (mine included) went into lock-down due to the Covid pandemic.
My mother is a classic narcissist. We had a row about the fact that I was unwilling to quit my job and take care of her at home (I'm not financially able, or frankly, willing). Our relationship has always been strained. She got herself a caretaker (my age) that comes in several times a week who, in her words, "treats her like a baby and I just love it - she cooks for me, cleans, and tucks me into bed". I'm grateful that has been sorted out!
I'm having trouble coming to terms with how she can just wash her hands of people so quickly and easily. I witnessed it 30 years ago when she failed to come to her mother's funeral, and after her mother's death, she never had any contact again with her father.


I was at her house last weekend, and she gave me all my father's childhood photos - I didn't ask for them, she just wanted to get rid of them for some reason. She barely even speaks of him except to say "we had grown distant". I also had to remove the ashes of my aunt and uncle, even though they had been there for over 10 years because they made her feel "creepy". She's disposed of most of my brother's belongings because "he won't be coming back".
I just feel sad that it feels like whatever sort of "family" we had was just a sham - and it all fell apart over the course of just a few months. I feel sad at work when I see family members that come in to visit their elderly loved ones - they care! Intellectually I realize that this is a form of mental illness - this narcissism, but I just feel sad over the whole situation and I can't seem to move past the sadness.

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You're trying to make sense out of something that is 100% senseless to a loving person such as yourself. It's kind of like trying to figure out the mind of a serial killer, wondering what makes him want to kill another human being? Who knows? There is a piece missing in the brain of a mentally ill person that renders them incapable of empathy or understanding or even, sometimes, love. In the truest sense of the word. Your mother may have been married and had children and all, but was she ever really capable of feeling true LOVE for another person? That is the real question. Because a person who's incapable of feeling love just doesn't act like the rest of us in society with respect to what they care about.

Take my mother (please!). She's 93 and I believe, incapable of love herself. She's done lots of the same things your mother has, such as getting rid of my father's things IMMEDIATELY after he died. She lied like a rug (as usual) telling me she had gathered a big bag of her stuff for Goodwill. What it actually was was a big bag of my father's stuff with a few pieces of HER stuff spread out on top to make it look like it was all hers. She also has no photos up of loved ones; has gotten rid of ALL of the family photos b/c they have no meaning to her nor do they serve a purpose. She doesn't even want the photo of her late husband of 68 years to be in her room at the ALF. She only speaks badly of my father when she does speak of him, which pisses me off immensely, because he was a kind and decent man. She too never attended her own mother's funeral OR any of the other funerals of her dead brothers, sisters or family members!!!

Nothing matters to mother but mother. I am an only child and at 63 next month, trust me when I tell you I have mourned the fact that I have a narcissistic type mother my whole life. I never had a mother I could talk to or confide in. A mother who would even try to understand who I was as a human being. Or a mother to encourage me to become somebody. Nope. Anything I tried to do she'd dissuade me from, telling me I couldn't do it so why try?

The way I look at is that SHE has a deficiency inside of HER. I do not have a deficiency inside of me, which is not to say I'm perfect, but I AM capable of love and acting like a decent human being. She is not. So I try to feel sympathy for her instead of resentment, and it's very very hard. Not easy at all. But if I don't figure out how to get rid of the resentment in ME and find forgiveness for HER, then she's ruined TWO lives (well, a lot more than 2, but you know what I mean). Resentment is like drinking poison & waiting for it to kill the other person. Right?

So I don't know how you move past the grief you're feeling except to work on finding forgiveness for your mother's mental illness. And to cut down your contact with the toxic behavior that emanates from her. And to put up an invisible shield of Godly protection around yourself every time you have to have an encounter with her, which is what I do. And I imagine holding up that shield to ward off all the bad vibes and ugliness that is pointed towards you during a visit or a phone call.

Wishing you the best of luck letting HER crap go and finding YOUR inner peace in the midst of the chaos.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. Like I said, intellectually, I know what the issue is. I think I just haven't gotten past the grief stage yet. I AM working on it! Forums like this help so much, because it makes me not feel not so alone and isolated. As an introvert, I have trouble talking to people face to face about issues. Plus, I was raised to be "strong" and independent. Thank you again for taking time out if your day to show me such compassion.
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I can relate to your post.

After daddy died, suddenly there were no pictures of him in evidence, I never saw mother shed a tear. People who she met after he died just assumed she was a divorcee.

People who are totally self absorbed (narcissists) cannot think, feel or do anything unless it comes back to them in the form of praise or self aggrandizement.

Growing up, my mother always had lovely clothes, a huge house, anything she wanted, daddy provided.

I needed glasses and braces (typical kid things--not like I was asking for a Maserati or something) and I had my eyes checked ONCE when I was 9 and the glasses I got then had to last me 11 years. I paid for my own eye exam and contacts, which cost over $400 and this is back in 1972! The braces? Mom's will has a 'bill' in it that I am supposed to pay her trust back the cost of my braces before the will can be dealt with. She ENCOURAGED me to read her will, for years, and finally one day, out of boredom and waiting for her to get home, I did.

I was SO HURT that included in a will that forgives my YS a $60,000 'loan' a $1500 BILL for my braces. I put all 5 of my kids in braces and they sure as heck don't owe me a dime.

(My son is an attorney and I asked about this--since the codicil wasn't witnessed, it isn't legal. He called this a posthumous "FU" and people did it to have the last word. Still.)

Even now, at age 90, mother has to be the sparkly belle of the ball all the time. She wants to be the center of attention at all times. She sends cards to all the grandkids and great grands--not b/c she loves them, she hasn't even MET them all--but she does it so she gets the 'oh, N is SO SWEET'.

No, no she isn't.

I went through cancer last year. She did not make a single effort to contact me in the 8 months I was doing chemo. Not ONE PHONE CALL. Nothing. But she was getting massive amounts of attention at the Sr Center b/c 'oh, poor thing, she's worried sick about her daughter'.

I am at and have been at--the stage where I simply cannot invest any more energy in her or her life. She has lived with my YB and his family for 22 years. My SIL told me last week it has been the worst decision they ever made, and that she doesn't ever even talk to mother. How sad.

We cannot change these people. we can only set boundaries for ourselves. Mother is housebound, was before the isolation set in. She's starting showing serious signs of dementia--this is new, and I feel for YB who chose to bring her to his house and care for her. He will never put her in a NH, no matter what.

Honestly? I will not miss her, should she die. She's done so much emotional damage to a couple of us sibs--it will take some doing to forgive her.

Right now, I have just gone grey rock with her. She can't use her cellphone, so I am safe.

I am her worst trigger and she is mine.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Oh I can relate COMPLETELY! Belle of the Ball sums up my mother completely. And she knows all my buttons! So self-absorbed. I never completely realized it till the last year. There was always a sense that she could cut you out of her life so easily. I think it's bothered me more recently because I realize that it's getting to the end of life for my parents, and so much seems unresolved. It's not going to be resolved, in my heart, I know that. Thank you for your guidance.. it DOES help!
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Nothing has changed or really been any different in 60 years of your life. It is part of growing up to understand that your "mother and father" are not just a mother and a father, but human beings, either more or less loving, either more or less capable of parenting, either more or less capable of learning. Merely people. More or less failed in most aspects of their lives. When it comes to us that our parents are not miracle workers who can and will provide for us all the love we need throughout our lives we can be considered grown up.
Will it make you HAPPY, that this has been your lot? Not really. But this isn't within our realm of "choice". People do not change in the ways we wish them to change because we wish it to happen. Narcissism is a personality disorder, but it can also be considered somewhat disordered to refuse to grow up and set aside the expectations we had when we were helpless children, the needs we had then are not the needs of a grown person who has lived a life. We have two chances at a quality family. One we are born into. May work out. May not. The other is the one we CREATE, and that is on us.
Stop the struggle. Accept who she is. Form a relationship with her in which YOU decide how often and when to be present. Forgive her. Made a quality life. That is on you. Your responsiblity. She was incapable of helping you earlier, and she CERTAINLY is now.
The time to grieve all of this is more or less over at 60. That is the time to set yourself free. Enjoy living a life YOU choose on YOUR terms.
Wishing you all the luck in the world. For your Mom I can only feel sadness.
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MsMazie Jun 2020
Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer. I have managed to create a loving son, with whom I am very close, and I put myself through school, have had a long career and am financially comfortable, and I am not generally unhappy. And you are right, I just need to let go and accept things as they are. Suffering comes from wishing things were other than what they are.
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Mazie,

Children of narcissistic parents have low self esteem, don't trust their own feelings, and think their worth is measured only by their "usefulness" to others. Narcissists use their children for their own selfish purposes, never thinking (or not caring if they do) of the consequences to the child.

Give up the dream of a loving mother. She will not, cannot change. I resigned myself to the fact that my mother was and is mentally ill, incapable of real love and was totally unequipped for motherhood. History bears out the reality. I forgive her for the self-doubt she sewed, the innocence she stole, the love she denied. The manipulative puppet-master tactics, the discord she sewed in our family; the sick, twisted punishments when we didn't comply. The friends and relationships she destroyed or compromised.

Let it go if you can, but remember: forgiveness doesn't include providing opportunity and access to keep hurting you over and over. Do what you must to protect yourself.

Become your own mother. Cultivate self-care by taking care of your own health, mental and physical. Collect people and activities that bring you joy, peace, and positivity. Discard the rest.

It took me many years to arrive at what peace I have. It's a process. You can read between the lines; there is bitterness still. But I'm working on it. One tear at a time. And you can too! (((Hugs)))
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From one fellow survivor to another; my heart goes out to you. My mother was also narcissistic; to make a really long story short, it makes grieving so much more complicated, doesn't it? My Mom passed away nearly two years ago from Alzheimer's-related complications, and I grieved the relationship we never had, and I am still in the healing process, It gets better I assure you. May I suggest a book I recently read that I found very helpful to survivors of Narcissistic, abusive, and/or neglectful parents. It has impacted my friendships and romantic attachments greatly. I'm in no way affiliated with the author, and I'm not compensated in any way; I just found the book to be of great help to understand why so many of my adult relationships have been troubled. It's called Ghosted and Breadcrumbed by Dr. Marni Feuerman. It also offers self-help and comforting measures you can use to make up for some of the rotten childhood experiences we had. Of course this can't take the place of professional counseling , but it's a terrific add-on to grief counseling or a grief support group to help you through these first months. Please feel free to message me privately if you'd like. I'm still on this message board because my Dad's health is failing and I really appreciate the advice and support this wonderful group of people has provided me.
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Something I've not read from folks yet. So mother took care of your father. Do you know what an undertaking that is? Day in and day out 24/7 for however long. You can no longer enjoy life as you would like.
Emotions are magnified when it's up to a narcissist to do all the caregiving with no help from the family. Is it any wonder that by the time her husband passed or sent to a home, She was already burned out, exhausted, worn down, depressed etc?
By the time her job was over, she's wanting to erase any and all memories of that horrible time for her. Could it be she wasn't as much of a narcissist as you think she was? She cared for someone24/7 besides herself. Did she have help? Probably not much.
Another thing...what kind of a marriage did they have? Was she forced to comply with his wishes?
Was she a so called narcissist because she was trying to eek out any time for herself because she was so consumed by a demanding husband and children?
I'm in no way implying this is what went on but I've come from a 46 year abusive relationship with demanding children whom I love dearly and gave everything I had to all of them. There was nothing left for me. Once the kids were grown and gone, ( all turned out to be highly respected and well behaved adults) then here came the MIL that needed care giving. Then my own mother. Then husband got sick so there was more caregiving. He only wanted me to care for him. He finally passed 4 years later. At that point I was relieved of all my responsibilities that now I could concentrate only on myself and my needs. I also got rid of his stuff. No pictures on my wall of him. I do have1 picture of him in a corner I rarely go but it is only for my families sake. I'm free at last. I'm now able to do all those things I was never been able to before. If that makes me a narcissist, then so be it. I've served my time taking care of everyone else but me. Now it's time for me. Grief strikes and affects folks in many ways. I also grew up with a mom that never told us she loved us or was proud of us. I realize she done the best she could. I love myself. I'm a good person. I no longer feel the need to hear it from anyone. If they don't like me oh well. I can look at myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am....a person who at the young age of 18, became an army medical specialist and have taken care of people all my life because I felt that was my calling. Now I get to take care of me. I'm soaring.
Don't let your mom drag you down. Lift yourself up. You've done the best you can so get on with life. It's way to short. Best of luck to you always.
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disgustedtoo Jun 2020
Can't speak for much of the care-giving or how it might have warped people (raising 2 kids from a very young age was the biggest task for me) - I did what I could for mom while she was still in her own place, but basically I made sure she is in a safe place and is well cared for, plus manage everything else for her. She's still there, almost 97 going on 2, living about 40 years ago. Sadly while they are on lock down I can';t interact with her. Between very bad hearing and dementia, it would be very hard to arrange any kind of interface, whether online or through glass. Hopefully she will still remember me when we get to visit again! If not, I will still go and ensure she gets treated well.

I did get a little chuckle out of your self assessment - all I could picture was Stuart Smalley looking into the mirror saying "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!" Although this is an old SNL reference and Mr Franklin has been disparaged for some poor choices from years ago, the skit is so apropos! It really does say it all - you have to assess your own self worth and self care, and not base your image on what anyone else says or thinks!

Between lack of parental support and an abusive OB, I was VERY self-conscious and had little self esteem. It took me almost 30 years to get beyond all that. Far from being perfect, I CAN look in the mirror and feel that I AM good enough, I AM smart enough and indeed people DO like me!!! (for those who don't, I consider it their loss and try my best to avoid them - we don't need additional negativity in our life! It's too short to deal with that!!!)
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Oh, it hurts, doesn't it! I am so sorry. So very hard to figure out why, how could she/he be like that. Why couldn't she/he be like......(fill in the name). But for what ever reason she/he can't. It is that person's makeup. As hard as it is, you need to be kind to yourself. Remember each minute you spend thinking about it, you will never get back and you deserve each and every minute of your life.

There are so many things from years ago, that we will never know about, that added to our parents personalities. That was such a different time. How they had to deal with things as children, what they saw or heard, fears they had, or had to be quiet about, etc. This is what I call their makeup. And as they age this can be amplified!

So each time you start thinking, oh, I wish she was different.....STOP. She is who she is and with aging or dementia it will be even harder to understand, so don't even try. Just remember any special good thing or event to focus on. I have learned this after feeling the same as you, many times.
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marymary2 Jun 2020
I don't believe narcissism is always caused by something bad happening to a narcissistic parent. My narcissist mother was the favored child, according to her sister, and their family was not adversely affected by the depression, based on her father always being employed at a high level of a large corporation, them buying a new car and a new home during the depression.. My mother, according to her and her family, got everything she wanted as a child. She went to the hairdresser weekly as a child, was always dressed well and was the beauty of her school yearbook. I think she was born a narcissist or else the luxurious life she lived created her large sense of entitlement.

Whatever the reason, she had no qualms denying me the simplest of things as a child (my teeth and health have cost me a fortune from no braces, medical care etc) while buying herself the luxuries she was accustomed to.

Anyway, I've dug and dug and can find nothing negative in her life that would have caused her to be a narcissist.

Your advice is helpful though. Thanks.
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If you are on Facebook please look up Melanie Tonia Evans. She has a program to help people through narcissistic abuse. This is so eye opening that there is so much hurt caused by these people. I think listening to you tube messages also if you google narcissistic abuse can help you start to distance and guard your heart- grieve what could have been, should have been and realize that maybe your Mom did everything she could do emotionally. I think people have an emotional range kind of like we each have physical abilities- not everyone can run marathons. Not everyone has the same values or deals with death or hardships in the ways we ourselves would. I wish you peace. Time helps. Imagine Releasing your pain and anger and hurt to God- like shedding an uncomfortable heavy wet dark coat and handing it to God can release the burden and help you feel lighter and less encumbered so you can take a deep breath and begin to live your life in a more balanced and happier understanding of human frailty. Your strength is in your knowledge and understanding of your gift that you can love, you can feel, you can show caring and actually mean it and that is a blessing to those who know you.
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marymary2 Jun 2020
Melanie's vids are sometimes helpful, but often they seemed geared towards a narcissistic spouse or partner. I've considered her course though. Did you do the paying course and if so was it helpful for someone with a narcissistic parent? (P.S. Inner Integration on YouTube is good too)
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So many great answers here. I'm in this struggle myself with my mother, although my husband, brother, and sister-in-law are with me for emotional support. Isn't it interesting that the "whipping post" child becomes the only one who is "allowed" to be the caregiver. Two books that helped me are "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" by Karyl McBride (recommended on this forum) and "Do Yourself A Favor and Forgive" by Joyce Meyer. While I'm improving in my personhood, I still grieve what never was and never will be. But by understanding her mental illness better I am moving toward more peace in my heart. Blessings on your journey.
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Seems she is doing her "death cleaning" - a Scandinavian term for streamlining a home in one's older years. This may be her way of dealing with "loss", but it most definitely is not yours. Her actions seem to exacerbate your feelings of loss. Realize she is different and you can not change that. Do what you consider to be helpful. Keep in touch with your dad and brother. Take the momentoes your mom gives you. Maybe even "help" her with this cleaning so you can preserve the memories that are important to you.
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