How do you have a conversation with a stubborn elderly parent?

I am wondering how are you doing now and if anything changed?

Maybe an assisted living facility for your wife's Mom would be the best solution for your family as a whole. Your responsibility is to make sure she is in a place with appropriate care, not necessarily to be the caregivers. The advantage of assisted living is that they have skilled staff who are trained at caring for seniors with disabilities, know about and have special equipment (like shuttle buses with lifts for wheel chairs) and have knowledge and resources about aging. In assisted living they will take care of everything for her. They will provide meals, make sure she takes her medications on schedule, be there to help her move around safely, call EMS if she falls, do laundry and housecleaning, organize appropriate activities, etc. Your wife may have to do the research to find a good place near you that her mother can afford. It's best to find a place near you so that you can visit often, oversee her care, go with her to doctors if needed, take her out for lunch or dinner, etc. All the best to you all!

In your mother n law’s best interests I would look into a caring independent living facility that has levels of care graduating to assisted & skilled care which covers falls, illness or advanced aging. There, she has a chance to meet like minded individuals in similar circumstances that have a better understanding. Hopefully with a caring staff & friendly people she will be much better off for her own happiness. I pray for your patience, empathy & positivity. Aging isn’t a choice.

For heaven's sake, just afford the woman the civility of including her or let her know why you can't. And who cares if she puts down a trash bag so that she doesn't get hair on her clothing?

Agree with her that someday, when she gets better, she'll drive again. You know she won't. She knows she won't. Hell, I know she won't. So why are you about it. Pick your battles. Let go of what you can, change what you can't let go of. You didn't want to leave her home alone and that was very good of you. Now you got this lovely little package in the house, wrap it up pretty and do the best you can with it.

callensky1: Your wife's health is the priority. Her mother's living situation must be amended since this dynamic is not working.

To add a bit of humor . I took my mother in when my Dad died and she didn’t like my “ habits “ , so she went back to her own house. Maybe if you change things up your Mom won’t want to stay.

My Mom eventually ended up in AL with dementia.

Ok - so what I don’t see here so far from anyone is: what is the magical formula for actually placing someone in a facility if they are not willing to go? Whether it is to remove them from your house or remove them from their own house, how do you enforce the eviction to AL or a SNF? What if they get to AL and say I do not wish to stay here? I want to go home? Oh I know - you can refuse the release to your own home under “unsafe discharge” etc. , but what if they can’t live alone or have no place to live? Will the AL keep them if they say “I want outta here”? What happens if they hate it and insist on leaving? Sorry to hijack the post, but I think answers to this is relevant to the poster’s original question.

You say “we've prayed, we've cried, we've cussed and fussed“, and you know they don’t work.

I’d develop a quick response to her perpetual ‘don’t throw me into the briar patch, brer fox’ (AKA nursing home). “This is not your nursing home and you are not the manager”.

Then two or three follow-ups: "Please do what we ask"; “If you want the services of a nursing home, you will have to move”. Write your own extras – “This is our house and to live here, you follow the rules without complaining”. Repeat repeat repeat.

You can’t persuade her to change. What you can do is draw a clear line in the sand, that you all can see, and see if she stops. If she crosses the line, she has had ample warning of the result.

She says “don’t put me in a nursing home.” I’d put the responsibility back on her with “our home, our rules and if that doesn’t work for you, it’s unfortunate and you need to find a place where you’ll be happy.” Then stick to your guns.

How many of us laughed whilst reading this........... Welcome to the club. Your "sentence" with your mother in law has only been 6 months? Some of us are serving multiple year terms with our parents. Have you had the fight yet about how your washing machine sounds "off" to her and the one her and her husband bought in 1953 never would have made that sound? wait till the jelly she loves comes in a new package that she hates, or how her mouthwash doesn't taste as minty as it use to.......

I work in a hospital. We deal with this all the time. We give our stubborn patients options: A or B. We don't bargain, and we don't give in, but we do give them choices so they have some control in their environment or schedule. Examples: I have 10 min to rearrange your room, once done, we wont move any more furniture (yes, that's a thing). Physical therapy is at 10am, you participate with the group, or alone in your room without supervision. Dinner is at 5. Eat when it's fresh, or eat it cold, the tray is removed at 7. You can have a shower at 8 or supplies to clean up at the sink. We treat them like teenagers in a way. For your mom, suggest she can do her laundry on Tuesday or Friday (any day that works for your family). She picks, and that is her day forever. You can offer her rides on Wednesday morning or Thursday afternoon (again, what is best for the whole family). It may take a few weeks, but she'll get the hang of it.
I had a similar problem when my Dad moved in. After a few months, we came to an arrangement. At home, my father (90) does laundry on Monday, that's his day. We run his errands on Tuesday; so all doctor appointments, shopping trips, dry cleaning, etc are scheduled for Tuesdays. I do dishes on odd numbered days, he does dishes on even numbered days. Dad has a night out with friends, I drop off and pick up. We go out to eat once a week, his treat (instead of burning the house down trying to cook). We discuss the calendar every two weeks so things don't surprise us. We are flexible for changes as needed. But we don't have the emotional roller coaster of conflicting schedules, or competing power any more.
I suspect some of this is her misplaced need to feel important.

Assisted living! Get her evaluated for placement and driving capability. Neurologist, Psychiatrist or ?

The change that needs to happen:
You plan based on you and your family's needs considering Mother's needs.
YOU do not cater to her. You politely explain once how things are going, i.e., we are eating dinner at xxx o'clock. We'll let you know when its ready ... or 'we are taking you to xxx medical appointment. We'll let you know when to be ready).

YOU set boundaries and stick to them.
You are not stuck unless you believe you are. You haven't set any boundaries with her so she is running the ship. You need to dock your ship.

Lastly, why are you catering to her and allowing her to dictate everything going on in YOUR home? This is about you and your wife allowing her to run YOUR household. "IF" you want to be helpful to your MIL, you need to compassionately set boundaries - for her wellbeing and safety. Period.

You do not engage in any argument.
She is, of course, frustrated, scared, and whatever else.
You calmly respond to her once ... whatever she says.
If you cannot that easily, do reflective listening: "I hear you saying xxx" and then stop. Talk in a calm voice, state your need/what is going to happen then walk away. Do not engage. This is adding fuel to the already ignited fire.

Gena / Touch Matters

i wonder if the mother was always coddled! you need to take your home back and have to be adamant but kind. just do what you have to do and were doing, unless you feel you can make an adjustment once in a while. also, don't pay attention when she pouts. I know this isn't a good comparison but if you had a dog who constantly wanted to be petted and came around whining all the time, would you pet them (i know you could get rid of them lol) NO you would not listen and go about your business or step away. Good Luck

First and foremost you and your wife have to be in agreement as to what you can and cannot do/tolerate. You must be a functioning “team.” Understand that drawing boundaries might be tougher for your wife because it is her mother and your wife has the emotional tie that comes with that. It sounds like your mother-in-law either needs to get with the program or go to assisted living. BEFORE you approach any of that with her make sure that your wife and you have legal POA, HCPOA and legal access to anything else to manage her care. If she is not willing to designate those powers now, while she is capable, you may have great difficulty managing her care in the future. This is non-negotiable. If she balks then she needs to make other arrangements for someone else or someplace else to provide care. If she wants to stay with you (for now) she will need to provide you with those tools and also agree to whatever your house rules are going to be. I hope that you and your wife can be on the same page on this. Please be patient with your wife and let her know you understand how difficult this can be. Try to avoid head-on fights with your MIL. Ignore, deflect and change the subject or walk away. Don’t bring up the car. Ignore her when she does. Hide the keys and make driving inaccessible.

1. Do not tolerate her behavior.
2. Speak with her PCP about the dynamics and, have her assessed for cognitive status.
3. Be sure that POA status is in place so that decisions can be made if and when necessary for her well being as well as your and your wife's.
4. If you or she has affiliation with a faith community, you may try having the pastor come to your home to witness and be a part of a conversation with the mother in law about everyone 's needs, well being, boundaries, expectations and, options. This may or may not be possible or pleasant given the description you have provided.
Nevertheless it is a needed starting point conversation to move forward toward you and your wife's well being and, the mother in law's needs.

5. It is natural and many many people hear the same ranting from family members about " nursing homes". Have the PCP assess her for " level of care needs". That way you have the professional input as to whether she is " independent", " assisted living" or " skilled care" status.
6. You may also need and want to explain to her and the PCP about your wife's illness and, inability to meet the caregiving demands of the mother in law. Explain to her that for her( mother in law's) " safety" it is best to look into placement for her so that all her needs can be met and, you will all know she is being cared for as you and your wife are not physically able to do so.

7. If all else fails, you can always call APS, Adult Protective Services, and report the situation of her ranting and raving and, seek their advice. ( May or may not help)
8. If she is in one of her ranting episodes, call 911, have her transported to ER for assessment and, speak with Social Worker or Case Manager at that time about placement.

Elderly folks often grieve getting old and fear changes. Anger and attempting to ' control's the situation can often beca part of their demanding behaviors.

Having your !other in your home is not working. You need to find her another place to live. Moving her out is not likely to be a pleasant experience, but her needs and attitudes are only going to grow worse with time. You do not need to come up with reasons you can no longer have your MIL in your home. It is your home and you and your wife have your own lives to live. You do not need to be your MIL's caretakers even though she may have come to expect it.. Start looking now for an AL or CRCC facility.

I agree with Burnt's suggestions. I've had my mother living in my home for the past 5+ years and when she moved in, she thought that we should be joined at the hip. Didn't want me to leave for any reason - always be right by her side - at her beck and call. No one can do that and survive.

Set the boundaries that you are comfortable with and demand that your MIL abide by them. You may have to remind her over and over again because like a child, she may continually test them.

Be strong and don't let her reactions sway you. You're providing a safe, caring home for your MIL - you don't have to become her servants or care slaves.

I think you have two options. You either keep her in your home and try to set boundaries, or you tell her she can’t live there anymore. You need to present her with these options. Most likely she doesn’t feel she is being too demanding. They seldom do. They just want what they want, when they want it, and feel it’s a completely reasonable request at the time.

If you decide to keep her in your home then I would set boundaries by starting with a calendar. On this calendar you write in the day of the week you take her to the store, out to lunch, whatever. Even schedule the day she is allowed to do her laundry. Try to bunch a few things together on one day. Schedule it. Then when she makes a request to be taken somewhere NOW you tell her to check the calendar for her day to be taken out. The free spaces on the calendar are for you and your wife for work and time together. If she throws a fit you say, well there is always option 2 if you don’t like this arrangement but we will not continue to be run around ragged in our own home.

Sounds like elderly lady behavior to me. They are self centered, slow, needy and usually in the way. I assume I will be the same at my moms age of 90. Your mom is Assisted Living care level. You can be her care giver or ….sometimes we have to save ourselves…Caregiving is a brutal job. I personally was not emotionally physically wired for that job full time. We chose AL…mom liked it once she got there..lots of attention. Lots to do. Consider AL.

You've got yourself a senior brat. They're the same as a kid brat only old.
You deal with a senior brat the same way you deal with a kid one.
I don't know if you have any kids of your own but even if you don't ask yourself this question.

How long would I put up with my MIL's behavior if it was coming from a child?

Answer:
All of five minutes. You put up with it from an adult half that long.

MIL gets told TODAY that either she shapes up or she ships out. When she says 'jump' you and your wife don't say 'how high'.
You and your wife say, 'when I'm damn well ready and if you ask again the answer will be no'.

Make sure she really knows that the nursing home will ALWAYS be an option. In fact, I would even suggest that you strategically place pamplets from different nursing homes and residential LTC facilities in areas of the house where she is sure to see them. Visual reminders may be just what she needs to keep her in line and respecting boundaries.
That if she gets too stubborn, too pushy, too entitled, or too fussy you and your wife will not hesitate to place her.
Starting today, she gets a bedtime. We will for our overly-sensitive forum members call it a 'retirement time'. At a certain time of night (set by the two of you), MIL retires to her bedroom. She doesn't have to go to sleep. She can watch tv, read, go online, take up knitting - whatever. She stays in her room though. The kitchen is closed to her. The rest of the house save the bathroom is closed to her. No one talks to her after hours because it's not her time.
It is your time with your wife.
Lay down the law with her today, my friend. If she will not live by your rules and be respectful of your boundaries in the home, then she will be calling another place home. Stay strong.

First, sending you both a hug. I know you feel like you’ve lost control of your lives. As a couple you went into this motivated by love and good intentions. Unraveling will be hard; but this existence right now is simply not fair to both of you. Your health, your happiness, your peace of mind matter. Your marriage should not be eaten alive.
I gently suggest researching senior housing and gather a few options for “independent” MIL to have her own space. Then comes the talk. Most importantly, you need be united as a couple as Mom will go easy. Try to look ahead to calmer days. You both certainly deserve it.

Wheres her dr in all this? HCP should be talking to her dr telling him/her that he/she needs to facilitate the conversation about mom needing enough care that asst living or senior housing is the answer. Also wife’s dr needs to put in writing the limitations wife has so that moms dr can say to mom this woman is incapable of meeting your needs

It is time to place her even though she will put up a fuss. You seem to be doing the best you can for her, yet she is unresponsive to your needs and limitations. There comes a time when you can do as much as you can, yet being pushed beyond that by the LO is detrimental to the health and well-being of your immediate family.

She sounds as if she no regard for anyone but herself, very selfish and manipulative, your wife is suffering and so are you bc of her, she’s willfully creating a hostile environment that she’s made herself the focus of, especially bc your wife has a health condition that is made worse by the constant stress and demands if you want your wife to regain her health and for both your overall well-being get her out to someone or somewhere else, I believe in keeping seniors at home whenever possible im not one of those who jumps on the bandwagon of assisted living or other outside placement but in small percent where the senior has a pattern of disregarding the needs and boundaries of others to a degree it’s causing high stress and even affecting health those are the ones that need outside placement either that or both of you will continue to go downhill, no amount of appeal to reason or basic decency and empathy works w people who are selfish and toxic to this degree

Start with: this not working for us AND you are not happy either. Time to make a plan that can work for all concerned.

You do not have to be "Stuck" with MIL. Place her in a facility. It is Your House With Your Rules. The time to move her out to an AL is Now to get your life back. You have jobs. What would happen if one or both of you lost a job?? Then you may lose your home and no longer be of service to MIL.

You set an "appointment" with your mother-in-law to have the conversation. Set the time for when she is not doing laundry, tired, or otherwise occupied being in your way. Tell her that it's an important conversation and you expect her to take it seriously because it's about *all* of your futures.

Once you're all sitting down and you have her undivided attention, start with a clear statement about how your current living situation is no longer working because of the size of your house, your wife's health and your own. And that you and your wife will help her figure out her finances, set a budget for herself, and find the best place that she can afford.

Be ready for her reaction to be not good. Stick to the facts - that your wife is unwell, that your house is too small for 3 adults - and that this decision that you and your wife have made regarding her living with you is not up for discussion.

Also be ready to have this discussion on a weekly basis as you find more possible places for her to live and schedule a tour. You have to make this real for her because she cannot drive and she will not pick up the phone and make these appointments for herself. You will have to drive this change!

I see LOTS of senior apartments in Bowling Green. Get her on the list for all of the ones within her price range. And when one is available, take her to sign the lease and help her move in. Acknowledge that this will be a huge change for her but that it is necessary.

So it’s only been 6mos and Mom feels she’s getting better enough to even drive soon. I would use her “independence” and unhappiness with the animals to help her decide it’s time to move out and be back on her own again. Instead of allowing her to make you uncomfortable in your own home time to take back control of that home and your lives by going back to living the way you used to. Your time is more limited so just like an adult child coming home from college the washer and dryer are available around YOUR schedule not the other way around. She goes to the store with you when YOU offer not every time you go. She either eats what you have prepared or takes care of her own meal. She is a guest in your home not the ruler of the roost, it’s been 6 mos time to stop working so hard at making her feel at home. Rite now it’s working great for her but maybe if you go back to living your lives in your home, your rules, it won’t work as well for her.

She is able to make her own decisions and made the decision to move into your home, I assume you didn’t twist her arm so now that she’s feeling so much more self sufficient, less in need of help it’s perfectly reasonable to sit down and talk to her about what her next step is. You will never leave her high and dry but now that she’s better (according to her) you really need your independence back so what is she thinking she would like to do next? Give her the autonomy without giving her your house as her option. Offer to help find the rite situation but the decision is going to be hers. This will likely take multiple discussions but being proactive maybe before and certainly after each about finding options to present her is important. Your wife, her daughter should probably take the lead on all of this with you there to back her up and help diffuse any objections but remember the best way to diffuse may be making sure MIL feels she has the control, she does with her life just not with yours.

Personally I would try this before taking a firm line or “forcing” a placement since it doesn’t sound like anyone could do that anyway since she isn’t incompetent mentally. She may be slower to react and think about things but that doesn’t mean she isn’t able to do so. Now when it comes to driving her reaction time is a different story but for now and maybe forever you have the cover of her doctor saying she isn’t able to drive yet but no harm as she’s considering where to live in suggesting she consider the probability that down the line sometime she will probably have to stop driving so might as well plan for that by selecting someplace that is accessible (or in the case of retirement housing, IL, AL has transportation available.

"When you live under my roof you follow my rules" how often did you hear this from your parents. Same goes here, my house my rules. TG its only been 6 months so maybe you can set some boundries. Tell her "Mom we need to set some rules here because we just keep seeming to get in each others way. Please wash your clothes while we are at work and any dishes your have."

You mention having to drive her around a lot, don't. There is no reason she needs to go shopping constantly. See if your County office of Aging has Senior bussing. If so, sign her up and tell her call them when she wants to shop. Find out if Dr visits are necessary. My Moms Dr had her coming back every 2 months. Other than blood pressure and cholesterol meds Mom was healthy I stopped that. Learn to say the word No.

Your life should not be centered around Mom. She lives with you. If you eat at 7, she eats at 7. If you want to go out and she doesn't, go out. As my DH always says "there's peanut butter and jelly". At the time my Mom stopped driving, I became her chauffeur. We sold her car. I set boundries without knowing I was. I was lucky because I worked p/t. I picked a day we would be going shopping and run errands. Once a week we took her out with us for dinner. We met other people there so it was socialization for her. All of my family knows you do not call me at work unless an emergency. I was not at my Moms beck and call. If she needed something thru the week, if not an emergency, I did it when I was out and about. Dr appts were made at my convenience.

If you don't think setting some boundries will work than tell her "this is not working". If she has money find that nice AL. If she still has her home, sell that and the car for her care. Wanting to shop may be because she is bored. At an AL she will have socialization, activities and outings. Or if you have just had it, place her. No one person should be able to control two peoples lives like this.