How do you forget about the past narcissistic manipulation and abuse?

Firstof5: "My mother's social worker told me that I needed to back away from being my mother's caregiver. She told me that if my mother's behavior caused people to not want to help her, that it was her own problem, not mine. That really flabbergasted me because I was raised to be responsible for everyone else."

Wow -- and to think it was your MOTHER'S SW who told you this! We see plenty of caregivers on this forum whose own therapists/counselors don't seem to tell them this. Often the elder's doctors couldn't care less what is being done to the family (or, often, the sole caregiver, often a daughter) by the elder caregiving.

My mother was riddled with anxieties and obsessions. When I mentioned this to her PCP and asked about some anti-anxiety meds, the doctor's answer was that she didn't like to prescribe those meds for her older patients. And that what my mother needed was for someone to check in on her every day to see what she needed. ?! Well, once she got to a facility (rehab after hospitalization then LTC), you can bet they started giving her those meds.

I never had to live with my mother, or vice versa. It was never going to happen. If that situation was looming, I was fully prepared to tell my brothers (all out of state, of course!) that MY doctor said it wouldn't be good for MY health. It was stressful enough being her support and chauffeur so that she could live "independently" in a condo 7 minutes from me.

wishing us all a great weekend!! :)

for those of us surrounded by difficult people…

here’s just some humour.
a funny quote:

“You either like me or you don’t. It took me 20-something years to learn how to love myself. I don’t have that kinda time to convince somebody else.”

As someone who moved in with her past toxic mother (who had reassured me she'd changed before I moved), I can also assure you they don't change. Lol!

However, I learned that relationships are meant to strengthen and challenge us spiritually. In your case, a sense of self has been lost to you since the abuse began. You wont be able to forget it,... but with therapy, (and I highly recommend this route) you can work around it to become more aware of what it is you lost so you can mend it again, from the inside.

Furthermore, you can actually use this situation to strengthen yourself, on your terms to establish your boundaries with her... IF and ONLY IF you believe you can.

For eg, you could have a brief chat with her, hang up when you want to, (set a time limit or other excuse, after all, you have better things to do and she knows it) and exercise your own mental equanimity if she ever tries to manipulate you with guilt, shame, entitlement, belittling, grandiosity, self-justification, excuses, past stories, etc etc etc.... (Immediately hang up if it goes bad, no matter what.)

This is only for those ready and willing however... if you are not ready for this and youre terrified of the thought, by all means, do not!

But if you believe you have enough chutzpah to stomach it, pushing back on her can actually help restore those boundaries that she had trampled all over previously... and she will feel the bite of regret (Funny how what goes around comes around).

Forgiveness does not mean forgetting. Forgiveness is more about letting go of your own pain and guilt (whether or not you actually are guilty of anything other than being abused.)

My mother's social worker told me that I needed to back away from being my mother's caregiver. She told me that if my mother's behavior caused people to not want to help her, that it was her own problem, not mine. That really flabbergasted me because I was raised to be responsible for everyone else.

It doesn't sound like your mother's narcissm is new behavior. It does seem like she can recognize that she didn't treat you well and can control herself when she wants to. That's probably the closest you will come to getting closure.

Deal with her in a way that feels safe for you. That may mean keeping your distance and working through third parties when she needs help. Don't let her guilt you into doing something that will make you miserable.

It truly sucks that some people only want us when they can use us. I'm sorry you are going through this.

Try to ignore and forgive her. She is old and nothing can change the past. Unfortunately, children can't chose their parents. If she suffered from a severe personality disorder, it wasn't her fault. It was because she also underwent a horrible childhood. So, it's nobody's fault. Try to be positive and realistic. You mother's personality won't change, it might even get worse now that she is old. Character problems usually worsen with age. Don't take anything she says personally. She can't damage you any further now, because you're a grown up and not a child anymore.

You can forgive Mom because she really can't help that she has a mental problem. Narcissists cannot see where they are wrong. Its always the other persons fault. But, do not forget. You need those memories to be strong. Forgiving is for you. It does not mean you forgive and then go back to the way things were.

Your Mom is nicer because she sees her future. I don't think this "niceness" will last. Her personality will not let it last. Like said, you do not need to answer her calls. Let them go to VM. You do not need to take any abuse from her or sister. Quietly hang up. (Its frustrating to find you have been screaming at someone on the phone only to find they hung up on u minutes before) If ur with them, walk away. You do not show that either person is getting to you. Do not show anger or get upset this is what they want. Makes them feel in control. Say nothing just hang up or walk away.

Do you and sister have POA for Mom? If so, revoke yours. Just write the lawyer who drew the paperwork that you are stepping down. If its just you, you can still step down and Mom can assign someone else. You may also want to make it clear to Mom that you will not physically ever care for her. Nor, will she ever live with you. That when the time comes she needs help, she can turn to your sister for help. Say this to her once and if she brings up the subject say that you already explained that it won't happen.

I have found from being on this forum, that Narcissist people seem to hone in on the child that wants to please them. The child that will put up with the abuse just to get some love and attention. But Narcissist people cannot love because its all about them. I bet ur sister is a Narcissist and Mom knows she can't manipulate her because your sister could care less about what Mom wants or needs. So Mom turns to you, the child she feels will give into her. DON'T give in because once you do, it will be hard to set boundries with her again. It's, well Mom this is the way its going to be. This is what I am willing to do and what I won't do. Firm and blunt. No expecting her to read between the lines. No screaming or hollering at each other. You just firmly say No (its a one word sentence), hang up or walk away showing no emotion.

My daughter read the book "Boundries" by Townsend and Cloud. She liked the book and the one thing she liked was "when saying No, you are not responsible for the reaction you get" You also don't need to back up that NO. Its just "NO mom". No explanation needed.

Keep doing what you are doing. Protect yourself. Mom has another daughter. So maybe when Mom calls say "Mom, sorry I really am not interested. Why don't you call Sis maybe it will interest her."

I simply cannot talk to my mother. Anything I tell her about what's happened in my life or what's in my heart will come back to bite me somehow. She will bring up what I told her at some inopportune time and/or she will use the info against me in some other way. Even the mundane information will be used: I bought a new sweeper and, for lack of anything better to discuss, I told her about it. She went out and bought me a different one, brought it over, told me how much "better" it is than the one I bought, and expected me to be on my knees thanking her profusely and apologizing for being so stupid.

Looking back on times when I felt she and I could indeed talk.... most of those times amounted to talking about other people. And not just talking about them, but talking about their juicy problems in full detail. I was so starved for my mom's attention, that I was unable to see that these "deep" conversations were just gossip about other people. I put a stop to that. No more talking about others unless it's truly information I need and/or it's a situation where my help was needed. You guessed it - legit discussions have been few and far between.

It broke my heart as a teen where my mom described our relationship as "superficial" and cried and told me she wanted to be closer to me. Ummm.... OK. Well the first step to being close to someone is establishing trust. Having everything I tell my mom used against me somehow is not a foundation of trust.

I'll never forget the day when my daughter (as a teen) asked me why she can't tell Grandma anything for fear of it being turned around on her. I think I stopped breathing for a moment to hear it from my daughter. It meant so much that someone else noticed it.

I seldom talk to my mom at this point. Mainly email. I live close to her home. My golden child sibling lives far away. I dread the day my mom will need help. To be honest, I don't think she is expecting much from me. I don't know anything about her health, medications, or anything like that. The relationships she DOES have are clearly situations where she controls the relationship. She can't control me, so she doesn't bother with me.

I don't think you can forget about manipulation and abuse nor should you. You should keep/maintain the distance for your own mental health. Now that your mom sees "your value" to her and her care it has started the cycle with her. The first part is "love bombing" and it's obvious that your mom wants to suck you back into her world.

I am in the same situation with my Mother. She has always been a very narcissistic and manipulative women. I am her only living child left to provide her care and it's difficult. I am actually at the breaking point and have decided to place her in a long term care facility, but she is refusing to leave my home and I don't know what to do. In the past 3 weeks I have had to call 911 on her twice, but when the police and paramedics talked with her she was sweet as could be and told them that she in fact was the victim. They told me that they could not take her to the hospital against her will. I am praying that I will be able to get her out of our home, where we can all live in peace once again.

dear lizzyfizzy,
:)

i hope you're doing ok!

----
this is just a general comment about abusive, elderly parents...

i think it comes down to this. their attitude is:

"I don’t like the situation I’m in, and it’s your fault."

Mother has started calling daily & this is new behaviour.
Regardless of her being 'nicer' the frequency of calls are unwanted as the OP does not want a closer relationship? Have I got that right?

Lizzy, what would you do with daily calls from someone else you had little interest in forming a closer friendship with?

Would you ignore some or all of those calls? Would you answer one or two a week?

What would be the right level of calls for YOU?

Do the calls bring you any joy? Or do you feel like a listening post?

Coz there is no rule in life stating you must be someone's listening post. Not even your Mother's.

She calls you all the time now because she thinks you will serve a purpose for her. She would have zero empathy for you if the situation was reversed. I'm so sorry you weren't loved and valued as every child should be. One of my earliest memories (about 2) was being extremely afraid of my mother. The most helpful thing my therapist told me was to limit contact AND if I talked to her to keep the focus on her (or superficial topics). Any information I gave to my mother she would "knock out of the ballpark" with criticism, blame etc. If you want to take the chance she wants to make amends or have an honest conversation just realize it's a very slim chance that anything productive will come of it. These people don't change.

Yes, keep your distance. That is the logical, sensible, intelligent course of action when this kind of person is in your life. They are not mentally healthy, you are not their therapist, no need to engage in their behavior.
Otherwise, how are you doing? How stressed out is this making you? What is your support system?
I can change-they don't have to-has been my go-to mantra for awhile when dealing with difficult people.

@lealonnie1

Thank you for your honest and heartfelt answer. At 52 I’ve finally realized why I’ve experienced such doubts about myself. I’ve become a better person and human from the abuse. Don’t always believe what people say, It’s embarrassing having to explain to others why I’m not close with them. thank you

@golden23

your heartfelt message brought tears to my eyes. I’ve gone no contact with my sister, it’s too painful when my sister and mother gang up on me. Once my mother passes away and the estate is settled I won’t be dealing with this anymore. I seriously considered having a private funeral for my mother without my sister. She was awful when my father died, I deserve to grieve without being ridiculed.

My sister and I were both POA, healthcare proxy and my husband was executor. My sister has twisted so much and she convinced my mother we were after her money. She was living with us, the money needed to be discussed for end of life. I’m sure she’s changed everything according to my sisters instructions. I may just hire an attorney and she can deal with him. I’m tired of being manipulated and lied to.

Why would you want to? My mother had Borderline Personality Disorder and narcissism, and while she could be charming at times, especially to other people, she inevitably returned to behaviour that was very hurtful to me.

I learned I had to protect myself by distancing and detaching. I agree you need to keep a distance for your own mental health. You decide how much contact you want/can tolerate with your mother and set the appropriate boundaries: such as answering only 2 phone calls a week, limiting phone calls to 15 minutes, ending the phone call is she gets verbally abusive or the conversation is generally a downer for you, and so on. Even going no contact if you need to.

At one point I stopped answering phone calls from my mother as they were consistently abusive. She had dementia by then and was really off the wall. I did listen to the voice mails she left to see if she had any real issues that I could address, but I couldn't handle the calls. The voice mails were bad enough.

Take the steps you need to take - take back control of your life. Your mother, as a narcissist , wants to be the center of your existence. By listening to her calls you are giving her the constant supply of attention she craves - her narcissistic supply. If you stop this she will find someone else to give her attention and you will be much better off.

I think it is wise to remember how they are so as to avoid getting caught up in the unhealthy behaviours again. My sis is similar but could be charming for a longer period of time, so it took me a longer time to realize that the charming times were simply setting me up for the criticism, put downs, manipulations.

Mother passed over 3 years ago and once I had settled the estate I went no contact with my sister. I was low contact with mother for years even though I was POA, and also with my sister. It is a great relief to finally be safe from these interactions.

Take care of you -do what is good for you. ((((((hugs)))))

What I have found with this type of mother/daughter 'relationship' is that it's a lose/lose situation. There is no real 'forgiveness' for me; there is just acceptance of what IS. That she did the best she could as a mother with what she had, which was a dysfunctional MIND, really, and mental illness that she refused to address or treat. She would never be the mother I wanted nor would I be the daughter she wanted. Lose/lose. No friendship, no closeness, no ability for me to go to her with problems b/c they'd be blown up out of proportion and turned into HER problems, leaving me with a BIGGER problem to solve afterward. But, I'm the only child, yay, so there's only me to deal with her in her old age. So I made the decision long long ago to NEVER have her live with me b/c once was more than enough. I set boundaries for myself to maintain my own sanity. I quit 'wishing' for her to be different and I stopped trying to 'fix' what was SO broken it was beyond repair. No more jumping thru fiery hoops for someone who had no capacity to appreciate my effort. So step back; limit visits at the Assisted Living home, limit phone calls, but be there to manage her LIFE from my computer and telephone, that kind of thing. Put up the shield of protection around ME to ward off the ugliness from HER. That's about it in a nutshell.

Now, mom is 95 with advanced dementia & in such a horrible state it's hard to imagine what she was like with a forked tongue and spewing ugly words at me a mile a minute. She's reduced to a person I don't even recognize and it makes me sad, actually. It took THIS for me to feel sympathy for her which also saddens me. At almost 65 years old myself, this is what it's all boiled down to. It's literally been one heartache after another, and this heartache now is just another one I have to absorb, albeit different than the other heartaches of the past 60-odd years. Even now, when I DO have sympathy for her, she's too far gone to even speak to, so there's nothing left to 'fix' or to even say, really. All I can do now is visit with her a couple of times a week and let her know that I love her. Kiss her on the cheek. Bring her a few snacks which she doesn't even want anymore. Now it's too late.

Your mother calls you every day now, you say. What does she have to say? Is there any shred of hope that she is sorry for all the hateful stuff that's gone on? Any chance she wants to right the wrongs now? Only you can feel out the situation and go from there. Maybe it's too late for the two of you to repair this relationship, maybe not, I don't know.

If you feel there's no hope to repair the relationship at all, then keep your distance and protect yourself from the heartaches yet to come. It's really all you can do.

Wishing you the best of luck.

@alvadeer

I’m sorry about your relationship with your daughter.

Your post is thoughtful and clear, my mother would never have a conversation like this with me. She’ll just start screaming at me, I don’t think she’s capable of having deep and thoughtful conversation. I struggle with that, there’s never how can we make it better. It’s usually I’m right your wrong, be the good daughter and be quiet. There’s never an apology, she finds it a weak characteristic. How is empathy and compassion a bad thing? My father and I are similar, he and I were more forgiving and accepting of faults. What can a mother and daughter do to be better? Respect boundaries. Accept we’ll never be close.

I would simply simply say "Mom, you seem to have had some sort of epiphany, which is nice for you. I don't blame you for all that has gone before, but I do FEAR you because of it, and for myself I have to keep my distance from you for my own mental health. This isn't something open for discussion; it is a decision I have made for myself and my own peace of mind. I truly am happy for you that you seem to have a new peace in your heart and in your mind; I believe it will make you happier and open you to new experiences. I just have to tell you that for now I am willing to speak with you a few minutes every few days (or whatever your limits are), but I can do no more. I will perhaps change with time, I can't know. But for now that is my decision."
I have a daughter that I am somewhat estranged from; I understand a bit of what you are feeling. That is, to be frank where I would be. I can do some communication, but I don't attempt to do more than I can, more than is good for me. I have my own human limitations; I honor them. I at times find myself wanting in many things, in forgiveness, in understanding. But at some point, after you have several times tried, you have to make decisions for yourself and OWN THEM. This is self protection.