I am a 65 yo female. I am/was a Nurse Practitioner. I had to retire 5 years ago. I have multiple sclerosis. I am the second child, oldest daughter of 5 siblings. I was very interested in medicine. Loved biology and wanted to be a nurse since 12 yo. He refused to allow me to take any nursing courses. My older brother and I had to pay rent (mine was two weeks salary). He did not pay for college. I went to college to become a nurse. My husband payed for college. After I graduated at age 30, I had two daughters, continued to work as an RN while obtaining my BSN and MSN. Paid for my partial scholarships and work. My husband was very supportive throughout this busy time. I was a good student, worked part-time job after school. My father was cruel and abusive to first 3 siblings...but he despised me the most because I was outspoken and overweight (25 lbs overweight). He was emotionally, physically abusive to first 3 kids. My sister and I also were sexually abused by him for 4 years. I was married at age 19 to a supportive, kind man. Father sexually abused my younger sister once I was married and out of the house. Both my sister and I confronted my parents when we were in our 30’s. He admitted to the sexual abuse. Very domineering father...very passive mother. Although she had 5 children, she did not like sex. Considered it her “wifely duty.” Something to endure rather than enjoy. She did not discuss menstruation or any topics remotely involving sex. My mother denied knowing anything about it. He would take us to their bedroom after dinner for a “back rub” behind locked door. My mother did not question this. She acted like it was “normal.” She was very angry at my sister & I for accusing my father of the sexual abuse. My father’s response: “you did not seem to mind. And this is done in many cultures.” He also was angry because he was concerned about his “standing” in our family. He is narcissistic and a hypochondriac. After I became a nurse, he seeks my counsel whenever he has an illnesses or sexual issues. He is 90 yo, lives in memory care. Mother died age 66. He has a selective memory, and states that he does not remember being cruel or abusive to his children.
Have you been in therapy? If not, I highly recommend it to reinforce the need to set boundaries with your abuser, who conveniently forgets now that he needs you.
Please tell me what culture approves of sexual contact between father and daughter.
Do not let the man who made your childhood miserable also make your senior years miserable. Just take care of yourself and those who truly care for you.
It's not easy... but focus on YOUR FAMILY...and those who truly CARE
My 1st husband, the bio-dad of my 2 sons was a manipulative and selfish man. When the courts awarded me full custody he formally and legally dis-inherited the boys then aged 12. My 2nd husband loved my sons and taught them what it really means to be a man and became their true father. Throughout their teens I made sure that my sons sent their bio-dad a Christmas card and a birthday card, followed by a short phone call each year in a token acknowledgement of the biological connection. (I didn't want them to feel a false guilt or blame me for alienation.) I maintained a PO Box for them for any letters or cards that their father might choose to send them. For a period of about 10 years they received about 3 or 4 cards each. That was the "relationship."
When their bio-dad reached retirement age he started asking them for money. My boys did well for themselves and were earning decent money as computer programmers, but they also were establishing themselves, buying homes, etc. They asked me what they should do about their bio-dad's requests for money. I told them, "add up all the money your father gave you for college and all the money he sent you for special needs beyond the child support he owed you. Double it. Send him that much money every month." Dead silence for a minute. "But Mom, he never sent any money. He never even paid all the child support. You and [2nd husband] did all of that." I replied, "There is your answer. When you had needs he ignored you. Now he is claiming to have needs. Whether or not he does have real needs, all you need to do is follow his example." That was over 20 years ago. They have maintained a contact of sorts, but they have never sent the bio-dad a dime. Bio-dad continues to live in the house he owns and hires a companion to care for him. Best of all, they have come to feel absolutely no guilt or remorse about anything regarding him. On the other hand, my 2nd husband and I have a warm, caring relationship with our sons and the four of us share many things, including gifts that go both ways.
A compassionate, caring human being will feel an emotional response to a person who is called a parent even if that person was never truly a parent and never nourished or cared. Follow your mind, not your emotions. Sooth your emotions by caring for those who return caring with caring. You will be fine because you are a good person. It is not your fault that your father was/is no father or that your mother was/is no mother. Care for those who care for you and spare no emotion on the ones who failed you. It does not matter what he does or does not remember, what matters is what you know to be true. Follow your mind, your emotions will adjust. Do not let the man who made your childhood miserable also make your senior years miserable. Just take care of yourself and those who truly care for you.
Of course he can't remember. He's in Memory Care for a memory issue. None of that erases the fact of what happened. His memory has nothing to do with it. It happened, it was wrong, illegal, and immoral.
You can forgive him, or not, depending on what works for you. You can see him or not, again, up to you. Some people can see an aging criminal and still have a relationship, some cannot. No one can tell you what is right except you.
These relationships, where you once loved someone who did something terrible, are confusing, frustrating, and not at all easy to navigate. They are fraught, simply put.
Please focus on yourself and get any and all of the support you can. If that includes your father, you'll know it. You did nothing wrong, and he is being taken care of, There's nothing more for you to do for HIM.
Take care of you.
He is 90 now. He certainly does not want to bring up the past....
He cannot justify why he did what he did...hence selective memory...
My brother's wife, her mom and her aunt (mom's sister) was raped and abused by their dad... many years ago...
It is sad this happens... in these days and time.
MEN THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS.
FREAKING SAD AND UNACCEPTABLE
Have you gotten counseling that helped? If not, keep looking!
An abuser will become "forgetful" with advanced age..it MIGHT be dementia, or it might be them being cagey.
Whether they really forget or not, is a Moot point. It does not matter. They did what they did; they cannot undo it, regardless what they say. He shattered you and your family. He left you all with holes in your emotional hearts, which no amount of his saying nice words, can fix.
Whether you remember or not, or how you remember it, is your business and no others.
Your behaviors stand tall, in comparison:
You escaped, you picked up your bootstraps, you made your life better, as well as bettering those around you.
You have serious illness, and keep helping others.
...That sounds like you did some good stuff! Don't let anyone discount that.
You WIN, because you escaped that hellhole; you bettered yourself; you made a decent family & Life of your own. Hold onto that, as your life depends on it, because it really does.
If Dad solicits health care from you, you delegate...
...You delegate specific care plans for facility staff to follow, & make sure they do it decently as they might for ANY other average patient.
...You can stay away, or visit, if you feel able to cope with it...Bring witnesses, & keep a calendar/diary of what he says and does during visits...that is evidence in court, if needed [& against any relatives who try to negate your life with him].
--> Perps tend to be Psychopaths, sociopaths, and/or pathologically Narcissistic [NPD]. Broken people rarely can stop themselves behaving badly.
Children are NOT required to save broken parents, especially at this stage.
...Do broken people deserve basic humane care in a facility? ...Yes.
...Do they deserve to be part of the lives of those he harmed? ...NO!
Love you. Love your immediate family.
Do your best to love those who don't love you....from a safe distance. There are countless ways to do that, without risking your own health and well-being.
--> Does he deserve visits from you? NO. You can visit only if you want to do so.
--> Does he deserve to know his behaviors keep triggering pain in you? NO. Neither do you.
--> You, & your family deserves your best. Not your Dad. Your Dad deserves basic care from strangers; not necessarily from you, or from your sibs.
Keep working on healing your heart & past.
When the time is right for it, it will happen. But forgiveness is not about him; it's a gift for you. When you are ready.
Every person deserves care and respect but he needs special handling since he does not respect others.
Put on your nurse hat! Remember what all nurses [I hope!?!] are taught, when taking prerequisite Psych & nursing classes; even airlines tell riders: PUT ON YOUR MASK 1st, OR YOU CANNOT HELP ANYONE ELSE!!!
Here's what it looks like:
--> Scores of bystanders, incl. health care workers, try to guilt you into getting all lovey w/your father. They Don't Know Him. Tell them. Put it in his file. It is medically germane.
You have a right to walk away from that ignorance; you don't have to allow them to add coup d'grace verbal abuse, letting them yammer on.
--> Identify to them, how abusive their mindless words are. Your chronic stress, history w/that man, & your own illness, FAR outweigh their guilt-tripping you.
I've had wet-behind-the-ears RNs say similar, believing it's a child's job to always "honor thy parents".
Well, "honor" is EARNED. He FAILED to honor his wife or children. He abused his wife & children [how passive & distancing a partner is; not wanting to see what's happening in their own house, IS a strong indicator that partner is abused].
--> Damages do not "go away" because a victim has tried to "forgive" the perpetrator. Anyone can try to gaslight themselves to think of it as a smaller problem, but it fails to go away.
[Not diving into spiritual discussions here, because limited space; there're other ways to "do" forgiveness, which might apply, BUT only IF the person chooses to dig for those]--> Unless a victim figures out how to dive into the truly deep spiritual forgiveness levels [such as promoted by Christian & other faiths], they'll have no directions or examples to figure it out.
Just repeating the words, is a painfully slow path to reach it.
You have FREE WILL. You don't have to forgive until you are ready.
Not even Jesus would expect a victimized child [of any age] to continue allowing the perp to keep doing it. You escaped all that: you Won!!! NO ONE else is allowed to drag you back into that hot mess.
--> Forgiveness is about releasing yourself from the bondage/weight of carrying around that pain. To forgive, you must stop carrying the baggage; some feel the abuse memories are all that's left them, of the parent's missing love they desperately yearned for, so they clutch tightly, to have any shred of something.
--> NOTE: Perps will try to weasel "forgiveness" from victims.
A victim can say forgiveness words all day long, but a perp cannot integrate that into their heart & mind, so they keep demanding/weaseling. --> That alone, triggers more pain in the victim.
They will keep begging .your. nurse-help, too. Mine pulls out her flirty-girl persona, calls me "Dr." [wile witnesses are there], though she knows that is her own machinations to goad me to help, to allow her to move back w/us.
When others tell you to "forgive"; "You really need to go make peace with them, because one day soon, they won't be here, and you will feel bad" [yeah, I have been told that by siblings and by nurses!], --> that MIGHT be opportunity to educate, by asking a few hard questions, like:
..."Do you know my father chronically abused mom & my sibs, by beating, doing pedophilia, emotional & verbal abuse repeatedly, for years, & he felt entitled to do it, & NO ONE stopped him? ...Do Christians care better for pedophiles & abusers, IF those are forgiven by one victim? ...Would you've Stopped him? ...IF you were in my shoes, what would YOU do?"
--> BOTTOM LINE: Whether he truly "forgot" his behaviors, is a MOOT POINT.
Your body is sick; you have immediate family to take care of. Those are 1st.
Dad's in facility, properly. Give clear directions to facility from safe distance.
Love yourself; you are worth it. Stop letting others trigger guilt in you.
Love stops abuse. Love heals. You, love, did that by choosing better paths to follow.
Allow Love, not dad's fear.
Forgiveness does not mean you must continue to see the person who hurt you nor does it mean that the offender doesn't suffer the penalty due him for his sin and/or crime. As for dealing with your father, as long as he is taken care of physically, I see no reason why you need have any contact with him whatsoever. Whether he does or does not remember, he is not going to ask your forgiveness, so that ought to be the end of your relationship.
Praying that you find comfort and healing in faith in our savior Jesus Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit.
,
I try to tell myself that he is now in less control as he truly doesn't remember most of the time and now is not the time to process anything WITH him about the abuse as he would deny it, retaliate or...? He is also diagnosible (by me--Im a counselor and also an addict in recovery with Bipolar lol!) as Bipolar, OCD and "rage-aholic". The alcoholism skipped a generation but he is a very compulsive and impulsive person. In many ways this has been greatly exaggerated as his dementia is starting to take hold and he tends towards paranoia, especially with me, as I am--you guessed it--the only one of 3 sisters who is capable of doing any caregiving in person. So I go back and forth from becoming more involved at times to distancing myself as much as possible. A lot of his words and attitudes still hurt though.
I'm guessing that most of the people on this forum have experienced the dilemma of how and when to be involved with an abusive and/or mentally incompetent family member. It is also very common to have one family member who is more involved and that person is usually the one most involved who gets the brunt of the abuse.
However I also get the occasional satisfaction of moments of beauty and connection and the times where I get to be an adult in a relationship where the roles are reversed and I have more control over my environment and the people with whom I have contact and it is a choice.
That being said, it is your choice to have contact with him and to what extent. Your decision is obviously influenced by what he took from you and how he is now with you. Nothing can change what he did to you but you can take exquisite care of yourself! By acknowledging what you have accomplished, developing a support system and coping skills YOU did this! Believing in your good is up to you. I am guessing if you have made it this far in your career and personal life you have had therapy and/or have learned to love yourself and detach to some degree. If not, now might be a good time for that! So keep going--redouble your efforts!
Do what you want to do, to maintain your sense of self. Do it consciously - not as a result of being triggered by a bully, who has trained you to meet his needs. If you want to help, help but only do what you decide to do and stick to your guns. By the way - if he can't remember, consider reminding him, especially if you feel conrnered by expectations - tell other people too. You no longer need to keep secrets, let someone else meet his needs. Good luck. x
My view of life is that is never fair and full of suffering; you had children, so you imposed this suffering of life--and eventual death (which we all must go through)--to them. I have no children because I consider being born the ultimate abuse you can do to a person.
Perhaps you need counseling to reconcile your post traumatic events.
Otherwise just don't visit him anymore and consider him already dead. If you cannot do that then you will have to forgive him and realize he's not the same person he used to be.
Since you believe that being born is the ultimate abuse, you really should leave your 2 cents out of abuse questions. You minimize what people are going through and that is not okay.
Sad thing is there are many many more children growing up in conditions like this that never get a chance to let their voice be heard. (and maybe more now that children are home schooling and there are no teachers to pick up on potential abuse)
I do hope both you and your sister have had counseling or you would consider it now.
I would not feel bad about not having any further contact with him. He is not worth your time and concern.
But if you want to look for the silver lining in this cloud of a childhood you had can I offer this...
I think it might be because of your parents not despite them that you chose the field you did.
It might be because of your parents that you drove yourself to accomplish what you did.
I would fully understand if any contact or information that needs to come to you can be done by staff at the facility where the man that fathered you resides. (I do not feel he is worth being called a father)
You have done well for yourself congratulations on that.
It is now time to take care of yourself physically and mentally.
I would not even think twice about seeing your dad. Please do not feel guilt in any way. You owe your dad not one single thing, but he owed you a decent upbringing, kindness and the love of a true father. I am so glad you confronted your father and mother, you should be proud of that, that took some courage. Your mother should have protected both of you, it is a mothers duty. I think it would be wise to seek a good councilor. It is wonderful you went to school and became a nurse, it is certainly a noble profession to be proud of. Sending you a big hug and a special prayer.
Dirty little family secret...nobody talked about it.
Mom was good at hiding anything that made us look less than 'perfect'....but in the end, the truth came out.
I had ZERO contact with this brother for years before he died. And yes, when he died, I cheered. Not out loud, but in my heart. Wherever God sends child molesters, it better be pretty bad.
I am the 'confused child' who caused our family to fracture b/c I accused him of abuse. Turns out, once I did, I was rapidly followed by a YB and YS and several of his children's friends.
After he died mother said "Well, are you happy NOW?" I said, "Mother, I have been in therapy and on antidepressants and anti anxiety meds for years. I will be on them my whole life. What he took from me cannot be replaced. Yes, I have to forgive him, at some point, but doubtful it will be in this life."
Had he lived through the stroke that killed him, I still would never had made any effort to see him and definitely would not have cared for him.
Please take the advice of the other posters and, if you haven’t already done so, get some counseling. There is so much betrayal to work through on the part of both of your parents. I kept going back to the part in your post in which he still calls you for advice on “illnesses and sexual issues”. This made my skin crawl. This man is still abusing you. What father would go to his daughter for sex advice? One who had already abused the father/daughter relationship. This is truly disgusting.
Your father is already being taken care of medically and is in a safe environment. I would severely limit my contact with him. It is clear you have not been able to make peace with your past because to an extent you are still being abused. Your parents’ behavior was not normal then, and his is not normal now. His present dementia does not give him a pass with you. You were at the mercy of your parents when you were a child, but now as an adult, you have the right, and the power, to protect yourself from further abuse. I believe it is possible to forgive the past abuse (for your sake!), but that won’t happen if the abuse is still ongoing.
You are to be commended for the success you have made of your life, and I am happy you have a strong, supportive husband. Take care of yourself mentally, physically, and spiritually. I believe that today, well-lived, has the power to work backwards to help heal the past. I have prayed for your healing.
Sorry, but I don't think that you should care one bit. He hasn't taken responsibility for his actions and he never will, that doesn't mean that you have to act like it never happened.
I would personally never have any contact again. He is a sick, sorry POS and doesn't deserve any consideration. He should be happy that you never had him arrested and thrown in prison with other sickos.
My younger sister as a teenager had an argument with him, during which she is adamant that he tried to push her down a flight of stairs that would kill her. She never spoke to him again after that, and certainly had no regrets.
My older sister had repeated contact with him when she lived in Sydney and he used to turn up on overseas flights. She started from a new positive mindset – she missed the early experiences because she was left out of the court order that gave him compulsory access to me and my younger sister whenever he returned to Oz. At that stage she also ‘found the Lord’ and did the whole forgiveness thing. She managed to stay on reasonable terms, with occasional spats, until he sent her a gift (which turned out to be insurance fraud) and she split it between the three of us. A couple of years later he wanted the money back again, and then lodged formal complaints against her (and me) for breach of our professional obligations for client trust accounts. That was the end for her. When she got a letter from yet another wealthy widow that he had tried to con on a sea trip, she sent it to me to deal with.
I managed to stay in contact with him on and off, and towards the end of his life I made the trip to Cornwall to see him in the facility he was conning. I had managed to keep him out of jail for defrauding his last wife, by multiple phone calls (I wouldn’t put anything in writing). He wanted me to pay for a plane trip back to Oz (no way), and proudly showed me the original of the fax he sent me when my mother died, showing souls in torment in hell and entitled ‘revenge pursued beyond the grave’.
That is cutting down a very long story, perhaps not as short as you might prefer. My sisters and I were all in Adelaide when we got the news that he had died. My dear DH2, who loved his own father, was absolutely staggered as we discussed how astonishing it was that he was just gone. No last bombshell in the post, just gone. Yes, we cheered.
My summary for you, based on the way I feel now, is to do whatever you feel comfortable with. Don’t believe a word he says about ‘not remembering’ if he always lied. Do nothing based on affection or FOG, just decide how you want to feel when he is dead. I did enough to show respect for the relationship, and I have no regrets about not doing more. Bad men all look like poor old men at the end, and it changes NOTHING.