My mom is 79 and living with me for the past almost 5 years. Her physical Heath is good for her age, just high blood pressure and lots of digestive issues. I’ve been driving her everywhere she needs to go, appointments etc, and bring her out with me to go shopping for something fun for her to do. She moved to this country to live with me after most relatives passed away (including my Dad) or they moved away, and it’s not safe for her to live in her home country by herself anymore. Recently she has said very mean horrible things to me that hurt me incredibly, and that has made me realized that she has talked to me and abused me like that my whole life. I have realized that she is a narcissist and I have been her scapegoat for my whole 48 yrs. I talked to my brother who lives in the USA (we live in Canada) and he helped me see that we need to move her out of my home to live independently, because it is not healthy for me to live like this. I have three kids and my husband home with me who are witnessing the abuse and are shocked. She has always said that she’d rather live in the US than here, but supposedly didn’t move because she couldn’t (I realize now that I am the only one that feeds her narcissistic entitlement). The most recent interaction I had with her, I mentioned to her (after my brother had also said to her) that he had found a good insurance for her and that she could move to the USA. She said she will not and that’s it. No explanation. I told her that she has to leave my house because living like this is not worth it for either of us. It’s not a life I want to live. And gave her the deadline of March to have moved out. Her response was that she will not move, and that “who knows, you might die before then anyway so it won’t matter”. Then went on to insult me. Needless to say I was shocked and the little interactions I used to have with her have stopped completely. Fast forward a couple of weeks and we had a group phone call with my brother to determine what her next step will be. She said she wants to stay in Canada, and that she would move to an apartment and live independently from me. Honestly I think it’s just to keep abusing me by staying in the city where I live. And she knows my brother won’t put up with her crap. So my brother found an apartment for her online. I had said that I will not be helping with the move as I put up with enough already. She has not replied to the texts with information for the apartment he found. She’s bluntly ignoring any group text conversations about it. She’s in her bedroom 24/7, only comes out to eat and exercise on the treadmill.
I don’t know what else to do to get her to live independently. I don’t think it is safe for her to live on her own here. English is her second language and as she gets older it gets harder for her to understand/be understood. But I’m determined to get my life and my health back. I’ve felt my health deteriorate with all her abuse and stress of having her influence my life so much.
Also my husband and I are considering move away from the city. Not because of that, but for work reasons. If we do, she would be on her own, in a city where she knows NO ONE, and a language she has a hard time with. She and my brother don’t know this, because I am afraid that she will then say that she will move to wherever I end up moving just to keep influencing my life. And I do not want to allow that anymore. In a way the move will be a fresh start for me. A new life with no more emotional abuse after 48yrs naively putting up with it.
My brother is willing to help find her where to live in the USA but she’s not considering that as an option anymore.
What can I do? Is it cruel to leave her living here on her own (if I manage to get her out of my house)? How else can I relieve myself from such abuse and live my healthy happy life with my family? She does not deserve my care, and I realized that a bit late, but I still have time to re do my life. She’s just not cooperating.
Even though she lived in her own townhome and 20 minutes away from me, her victim narcissitic personality did its best to control my life. We were going to move out of state, found a place with its own casita (for her), where she could live, and when we shared this with her that we hoped she would move with us (thus alleviating future problems since I am the only child and only family) she had such a hissy fit, temper tantrum, anxiety attacks, and telling everyone from the neighbors to the mail carrier to the bus driver what horrible people we were to expect her to live in a 'desert hell hole' like Nevada....it wasn't worth it. We could have moved and left her here, but that would have meant I would be flying in to deal with her problems/issues/ and medical situations and we just don't have that kind of $$ (especially since I would have rent a car, stay in a hotel, etc) Can't tell you how many special vacations we had to cancel last minute because of her (according to her, we could always take another vacation). How many special celebrations (bdays, anniversaries, etc) we had to cancel because of her. I had and still have such anger and resentment.
From my personal experience and viewpoint, I would highly suggest that that you tell her that you are putting the house in the market and in order to do that she has to move out and find her own place. Perhaps there is even a local community from her country that she can partake in or get help from. That you are moving to X and that she is not being asked to come along. That her choices are to either get her own place or move to live with your brother. Two choices - of which SHE has control over. And if she doesn't make a decision, then she will be moving to live with your brother. Oh, and by the way, get rid of the treadmill (put in storage), and she has to fix her own meals.
It's like dealing with a 4 year old at times. You have to make some decisions that they won't like but it is for their own good. Do not risk jeopardizing your marriage more than it is by having her continue to stay with you and to verbally abuse you.
Sorry for the length of this - but with hindsight, there is so much different I would have done and wished I had done. Please put yourself first - if you don't noone else will. You, your health and well-being are the utmost important.
Steering is a bad thing with realtors but with older moms it's a life saver. She'll be able to happily complain and be understood. I speak 2.3 languages and it's a lot of fun.
I'm most happy when I live in an area that has one or two, at least, restaurants that offer food that my mother use to make, or from my father's cultural background. Give me a great pizza place, a store that sells super sour pickles, a restaurant that makes authentically made beouf bourguignon, and a place of worship for my religion (that I won't go to, but like to know it's there) among others (fun) and I'd be happy on the moon.
For those who may shutter with the thought of CRT, puhleese, this is an older lady and after all is said and done after everyone gets equal this and that folks still shuffle over to their comfort zones. If not for anything else, the music.
Above all, do no harm.
As I was saying - Most cities have ethnic and cultural neighborhoods. Find out if someone in her church may know another senior that needs to share rent.
This may not be a nice idea, and I'm not sure this may not backfire, but perhaps if you had a baby-cam secretly recording your mom abusing you and your family, and btw don't tell the children you're doing this, and don't show it to her right away, (collect a fair amount), then one day, just you, your husband, and she can view it. Then tell her that you've tried, and that you will make sure she will be well taken care of but she is not a nice person, (or say - this is not a health pleasant life), but most importantly tell her that you will no longer allow anyone harm your family no matter who is doing it any more.
You know, if you let your children see that you allow someone to mistreat you, you are giving them permission to treat you that way. If you teach your children that they must eat poop, they will learn that it's okay to stay with someone that mistreats them.
Your husband has not stood up perhaps in your defense for fear that it would hurt you more, and on top of what she is doing, but he and your children should not have to suffer this.
You and your husband must show the children how this is done well.
Change your phone number and when you do move, do not leave a forwarding address, and do not tell her where you have moved.
And when you do move, along with getting therapy, make sure you also make a life of your own, make friends, do some activities without your husband, so you can learn to be happy with yourself and learn to love yourself.
The personality is why they know no one and are alone except for family that are obligated.
I am a gerontologist, which means someone who studies the process of aging. There are many aspects to aging that most of us are unaware of them. There is no exact age that the aging changes kick in and it varies in people, but for sure I can say at 79 your mom has started experiencing those changes.
I raise my hat to you for the years of caring for your mom. It shows that you have a caring heart. I recommend you look into this website from the National Institute on Aging,
https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/cognitive-health-and-older-adults
It has simple information about brain health, which most people do not pay enough attention to it. I believe the more you learn how some of your mom's behavior is out of her control, the more at peace you will be.
I recommend taking your mom to a geriatrician and based on his/her advice make your next step about your mom.
Best of love caring and strength to you and yours.
Is this a threat she is making towards you???
Talk with someone mutual who knows neither of you, like a counselor and lay everything out, all the feelings.......
Sometimes it is easier to hear from someone not in the family and not connected in anyway that way their words are just truth from the situation laid out before them.
They are not invested in feelings and can help you both navigate to the best possible place physically and mentally for both of you.
I think the term 'narcissistic' gets used so often when dealing with elders because it's true so much of the time.
How many times have you seen people post here about a needy and elderly parent, spouse, or family member who behaves like the whole world is supposed to revolve around their needs and wants every minute of every day? Or that their family exists only to serve and they expect them to pretty much become nanny-slaves who cannot have any portion of life that isn't directly about the elder? Even if there is a history of abuse from them and they treat that family like crap, they still expect them to make them the top priority in their lives.
This is the very definition of narcissism.
Sometimes dementia is to blame. Sometimes it's not.
Either way it's narcissism.
If she is mentally competent, then she can move out on her own and manage her own life - including consequences of her poor choices. Help pack her things. Help move her things into her new home. It might be worth it to help her set up her new home so you know she can function. Then, leave her be. Work it out with your brother on how often to "check in" with her.
If she is not competent, then you can ask for assistance from her doctor in having her placed into a residential facility that can make sure her needs are met.
You need to sit Mom down and give it to her straight. You are moving and she needs to find a place of her own because she is not moving with you. She either gets an apt in the city or she goes to the US and lives near your brother. Thats the only two options she has. Don't give her a date when you plan on moving (tell her its when everything falls into place) but she needs to find a place now so she is all settled in by the time you move. I wouldn't worry about leaving her in the city. I would bet if she doesn't like it, she will be calling ur brother to come to the US. With people like your Mom, you have to call their bluff. You need to show her this is the way it "is" going to be.
"I will not be helping with the move as I put up with enough already". Then you will never get her out. You or brother find her that apartment. You move her stuff in and provide whatever else she needs, food, furniture. Find out the resources in her area, like Senior bussing and give her the list. Call her bluff. Wean her off you. You may find she is way more independent than she has allowed you to believe. Or, she may find living near brother is the better option.
Be aware that if she moves to the US she is not entitled to programs like Medicaid for 5 years from the time she establishes residency, which is the Green Card. She will never receive Medicare because she never paid into it same with Social Security. (Unless she was married to someone who is able to collect SS and Medicare) So any health insurance she is able to get the premium will be very high. But then you said, brother is in charge of that.
My daughter read that Townsend and Cloud book Boundries and enjoyed it. One phrase she liked was "when you say the word No, you are not responsible for the reaction you receive".
This now all depends on you. Hopefully husband backs you up. You need to set those boundaries and not back off. Let her scream, let her cry, they r just tactics to get her own way. Do not give in because....she will know she has you. If you find she can't make it in the city, then the only option she has is moving to the US with brother. She needs to know that you will never be the option. You have done ur five years. If she lives in the US for those 5 years, then brother can have her placed on Medicaid if her health gets bad and she needs care.
It will work out but you are going to need to be involved a while longer to make it happen.
That's funny that you say you're uncomfortable with calling your mother mom. I've called my mother by her first name since I was a kid. It is what it is. If you really don't want anything to do with her then it would be in everyone's best interest if you had nothing to do with her.
However, I do believe you will feel better about everything and your mind will rest easy knowing that she's settled somewhere.
You don't have to do this alone. Call your brother and decide together what the two of you will do with your mother. If mom won't go for it, then she's on her own.
I've learned from experience caregiving for elderly people that often they convince themselves that the only workable soulution to any problem is the one they want and are agreeable to. Your situation is like so many others here.
If you continue to be the solution to every problem she will never try any other.
You're really not going to like this but what you have at the moment is a woman of 79, with English as a second language, confined to her bedroom because she is afraid of conflict with her daughter. Narcissist or no narcissist, she is the one currently at risk of emotional abuse. This needs to end fast.
She has said very mean horrible things to you recently, your brother is actively supporting a change, she has now holed up in her room, impasse.
But what happened before the very mean horrible things part? Five years with you and then out of the blue she's hateful?
The poster took her mother in five years ago out of the pure goodness of her heart. She admits that she never had a good relationship with her mother and because she always behaved abusively to her.
The mother is used to getting her own way and is in a stand-off with her daughter. She figures that by staying in her room and ignoring the situation, it will go away and her daughter will give in. This is why (the mom) ignores the texts from her son and any information about the housing he found for her in the U.S. She thinks her daughter will back down and take her with them when the family moves to the other town.
The mother isn't the one at risk for emotional abuse. Her daughter is the one who suffered it from her all her life along with being the scapegoat that mom could blame everything wrong on.
Sure, the mother is in a tough spot right now. Her adult kids are trying to help by making sure she's well settled somewhere. It's not their fault if she wont accept any solution other than staying with her daughter.
Go right ahead, as quickly as you can. Get the load off you ASAP, and let M work out that she is now going to look after her own needs. She can take the steps to find others who speak the language, and work out for herself how to be sociable. The ‘glimmer’ is that she may actually get on OK, and in a few months you may be able to have a polite phone conversation with her . That’s not the ‘mother’ relationship you have wanted, but it’s a lot better than what you have now. Go for it!
She made her bed and has driven you away, so I say evict her, move where you want to go, and don't leave a forwarding address.
I think now about how my life will change once my mother is out of it and it’s too sad to even want to go there. Meaning, the life as I knew it. My mother isn’t (and has never been) who I thought she was. It feels like I don’t have a mother anymore. We don’t talk so I can’t ask her anything or comment anything to her anymore because that will mean to her that nothing is wrong and things will be back to how they were. Do you know what I mean? It’s almost like the mother figure to me died and there’s an emptiness there that feels very strange. I imagine it’s similar to when a parent has dementia. Anyone else has felt the same?
You are doing the necessary work. Get as much support as you can, rest a lot. Take your life back. You can do this!
Find out how to evict your mother in an orderly fashion.
Find a therapist. You are afraid if your mother's anger. You need to work on that so that it's no longer a threat.
You are so good. I AM terrified of my mother’s anger. I need someone to point that out to me because in my mind that feels normal, but it is not! You should never feel like that about your mother! I see a therapist and we have talked about that but it’s something that I think will take years to get better at sadly. Thank you so much.
She is a narc and has lived with us for almost 20 years now - she moved in from abroad when she was 66 and celebrated her 86th birthday with us yesterday. My husband pampers all her tantrums and i have been doing all her appointments meds and groceries and cooking all these years. She doesn’t want to live with her other children- older son in Canada and two other adult children back home, just because she can manipulate us so much.
Now my marriage was on the verge of breakdown because my husband wouldn’t acknowledge how narcissistic his mother is and he himself has become narcissistic over the past few years with self admiration and lack of empathy and gaslighting etc
Since i have finally come to realize what her and my husbands personality disorders are, and have had the strength to speak up, he has finally agreed to personally take his mother to his older brother in Canada and has asked his brother to buy medical insurance for her for at least 6 months at least- she never has stayed with them for more than 2 months in the past because they do not cater to her the way she gets to manipulate her way around with us.
i just hope she would stay there for a longer while this time around and give me the much needed break to regain my sanity and my three children the calamity in the home to re grow their personalities as they were tarnishing with so much stress in our home due to my mother in laws loud and aggressive personality and her scapegoating me and my husband not having the strength to say no to her manipulative behavior like her other children have been doing. And maybe somewhere me and my husband might relearn to love each other.
I am also going through guilt like you for letting her go - when she has adamantly said she doesn’t want to leave my home and claims my home is actually her house. I also know that guilt is part of narcissistic abuse to the victims personality
You are lucky to have your brother and husband by your side.. i have been fighting this battle alone without my husbands support, we have had frequent agreements about this issue as he has refused to accept his mother is anything less than “perfect”. And she has turned all her other children ( my brother and sister in law) against me as well over the years
My suggestion to you would be to allow her to be independent in her apartment- she will survive - just like many older people do in US and Canada living alone. Your relationship with her will improve also once the caregiver burden is out of the picture
it helps to hear from someone else that it is ok to leave her to live on her own even if she doesn’t know anyone. You’re right. She’ll survive. Thank you!
Other illnesses can mimic dementia, like an untreated UTI, dehydration, thyroid, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. These can be addressed by medications and her behavior may improve. Then, she needs to have a cognitive/memory test. You need to know where her health stands because she may need Assisted Living and not her own apartment. This is an eventuality anyway, right? It would be better to figure out the plan now rather than wait until there's a crisis, which will limit options.
Regarding your brother saying he found "insurance"... if your mother is not an American citizen, I don't believe she can receive Medicare, which is the universal healthcare coverage one is eligible for at age 65 (because she has never paid the taxes into the system):
"If you are not a U.S. citizen, but are lawfully present, you may still be able to get Medicare, depending on your circumstances.
Specifically, you will qualify for Medicare even if you are not a U.S. citizen if you qualify to receive or currently receive Social Security retirement benefits, Railroad Retirement Benefits (RRB), or Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI). In any of these cases, you will qualify for premium-free Part A. You will owe a premium for Part B." (source: https://www.medicareinteractive.org/get-answers/medicare-basics/medicare-eligibility-overview/medicare-eligibility-for-non-u-s-citizens )
And besides, Medicare doesn't pay for AL, MC or LTC.
Medicaid may cover facility care but this program is run by each individual state, so it would depend on where your brother lives. My state doesn't cover AL or MC, only LTC for citizens. And she needs to medically and financially qualify. Facility care here is extremely expensive. Your brother would go broke financing it for her if she didn't qualify. He better make extremely sure of the realistic options before inviting her to migrate to the US.
I don't know what the options for her are in Canada... but if she is able to get aid to cover facility placement, I'd still plan your move as you've mentioned, and try to get her in a place close to you. The language barrier will just be an issue that may never be solved. I wish you all the best as you work out your future.
I don’t want her in a place close to me. Honestly right now I don’t want anything to do with her. You’re right about the language barrier being an issue forever. She’ll have to learn to live with it. Thank you!
Don't tolerate her BS anymore. Be honest with her and your brother though and let them know you and your family will be moving away and mom will be in a foreign country in a city where she knows no one. Start your preparations for your move now. If your mother refuses to move tell her that this is what you will be doing.
Her choices are:
1) Move into an apartment that you and your brother help her find where you live now.
2) Accept a one-way plane ticket to America and your brother so she becomes his problem.
You will probably have to serve her with eviction papers to get her out of your house. I don't know how the process works in Canada, but here you have to go to court and have her formally served with eviction by a municiple sherrif.
Your mother must be made to understand that she's not going to continue living with you. She will not start cooperating though. She wants to remain living with you and is calling your bluff. She probably thinks that if she avoids you by staying in her room 24/7 that she won't be a "burden" on you and your family.
You don't want her there and you may to have to be a little cruel and harsh to get her out. Serving an elderly person with eviction who's also your mother is cruel and harsh. So is the lifetime of abuse that you suffered from her. No regrets and no guilt. If she won't accept the choices you and your brother offer, then evict her. Then get on with your family and move to the new place. Good luck.