I have posted here before about my mum. She is 85, very narcissist personality and a chronic hypochondriac. She has always suffered from depression and anxiety. It has quadrupled with age and it's causing herself and myself and my brother a lot of distress.
I see her every 3/4 months for 3 weeks at a time and she calls everyday 3/4 times a day which now I have learned to cut short if it's getting too distressing.
She refuses to take medication for her mental health but she takes Colonazepam which helps her sleep.
She DOESN'T suffer from dementia as yet.
My brother lives with her and that has been his choice but the dynamic between them is VERT toxic and he now wants to leave which I don't blame him.
Her negativity and outbursts of anger and frustration is affecting us both badly mentally and now physically.
She has fallen out with everyone around her who has tried to help.
She won't come to stay with me as it's hard to travel the distance and she hates my family.
My question is how does one deal with this situation emotionally? I am emotionally exhausted.
I know I am lucky I don't live with her. I will go and see her in March for 3 weeks and I know the trip will make me mentally ill.
She has never been nice or motherly to me and I have been away from her since 16 .
I suffer from depression myself which I am not sure it's caused by her or not .
How can I handle this ?
Have you sought therapy for yourself?
Your mother is a bully and mentally ill. You have written in the past that NOTHING you've ever done has been good enough for her. That she's never been a loving mother to you OR your brother.
I wouldn't help someone who was mean to me. Why do you keep showing up for more abuse?
Consider saying " No mother, I won't be visiting you this month. You need to make other arrangements. Here is the number for the local Area Agency on Aging. Call them and arrange to hire help."
Take just one call a day from her, then block the calls for the rest of the day. If there is an emergency, I am sure your brother will let you know.
When you visit in person, limit the amount of face to face time. That's what worked for me. I realized I was in control of the situation. I spent no more than 30 minutes a day visiting with her, usually in the presence of her helper because then she was on her best behavior. I spent the rest of my time running errands and making appointments, doing what needed to be done around the house. I did not have meals with her. I did take her out a bit when she was still relatively mobile but that stopped when it got difficult to get her out of the house. If she starts with the toxic bilge, tell her you do not need to listen to her vitriol and simply get up and walk away.
I made a small living space in the basement of my parents' house which is where I stay during my visit. That way I have my own place and not subjected to her miserableness 24/7. Maybe you could do something like that when you visit.
My parents are both in a NH now. I visit them every day when I am back for my month long visits. It's not so bad because now I bring my husband with me to visit them because he the master of small talk. If he is there, the visits are much more pleasant and she will not get nasty front of him. My husband has never seen that side of her and refuses to believe that she is that way. He actually likes her, go figure. lol.
But above all, do not take her into your home and do not move in full time.
So many phone calls!! Why?
How many phone calls would be ok from your point of view? One- two a week? What about ONE call a day for starters? Then keep cutting down as you need.
Seriously considering skipping that next visit as Barb sugested.
She is not likely to change her personality at this point especially since she has been so difficult for so very long. I think the only thing to do is try to figure out an alternate living situation for her if at all possible. The day to day stress will only continue to take its toll and frankly you don't deserve that nor is likely to resolve. I am sorry you have this difficult situation which many who are on this forum also deal with. If she were to be placed you could create more boundaries away from her and hopefully over time reduce your misery in dealing with someone so negative and ungrateful.
I would say your depression is certainly exacerbated by her. You may still have some but perhaps it could lessen over time and at least reach a point that feels less extreme. This situation drastically calls for a change. I hope you and your brother might find a way to find a life that is more deserving for you both.
I love my mother, but I realized she used to criticize other people close to her but filtered and descreetly...now in recent years she is unfiltered and rude directing her attention onto me and my own family, she also seems amused by the reactions from it.
My mom used to have empathy and compassion for others, but now she only shows it to specific cousins who are known to take advantage of others and they take full advantage of it - however luckily my dad has set up boundaries to prevent any further harm than general communication.
I believe my moms struggles are due to over 50% of immediate family and several friends passing away - she seems to have a combination of depression, anxiety and ocd which is getting worse due to a lack of addressing anything. Life hasn't always been kind so she is getting angry and pushing people away. She also has a severe tech addiction, in the worst social media sites perpetuating judgement and hate. Due to a lack of movement and a lack of treatment for certain health concerns she is growing more and more uncomfortable.
I have found I am the most comfortable speaking to others on forums to help navigate various needs over the years...I don't like speaking with a therapist 1:1, or in person group therapy - I prefer the anonymity of a forum. So, IMO your in the best place you can be, here. :)
Also I agree, limiting exposure to her negativity may help, but maybe reassuring yourself, explaining that this is her problem not yours is also a way to keep yourself grounded in her behavior. You can bring reality to her calmly, but IME it doesn't get very far before the problems crop up again - due to that and a general lack of filter I believe there may be a mental component going on, but its hard to say as bad social media sites cause this to occur too.
I would love to see her put the smart phone down and seek forum support on depression, etc. I think when used on a computer, where a person has more self control of their time is the best place to seek advice.
Apparently not, and that is so very sad that you don't feel that you matter in this dysfunctional equation too.
Your mum is NEVER going to change. so it's up to you to do the changing as that is all you have control over.
So lets start with just answering her call once a day(and only if you want to)and let the others go to voicemail. You can then start cutting back to a couple days a week or once a week, or whatever feels best for your mental health.
Then how about just planning on going to visit her twice a year(if you feel that you absolutely must see her)and only plan on staying 1 week in a hotel, so you can have a place of refuge when her nonsense gets to be too much for you and your mental health?
You and only you have the final say about what you will and will not tolerate, so start today setting those much needed boundaries that should have been set years ago.
And know that chronic depression is one of the leading causes of dementia, so even though you say that your mum doesn't have it yet, she may very well in the future, and yourself as well since you say that you suffer from it.
So you can see the importance of taking care of your mental health at this point in your life. It's never too late to start making yourself a priority and getting the help you need to be healthy and whole.
I wish you the very best in taking the steps to do just that.
No, her mother is not going to change at her age, but she can make an effort to keep her negativity and anger in check if she wants to have a relationship with her daughter.
Let her know that you will no longer speak to her or have any relationship with her whatsoever if she does not clean up her abusive act. Then make sure to tell her that youre going to do everything within your power to help your brother get away from her.
Make sure she knows that you will not allow (use the word 'allow') her to speak ill of your brother or villify him to you. She will likely try to because she doesn't want to lose you. So she will probably get her negavitity and anger outbursts in with you indirectly by villifying and outright lying about your brother to you and trying to pit the two of you against each other. Don't allow this to happen.
If she starts up about your brother the phone call ends. If you are visiting her and she starts up about him in any way go stay somewhere else.
I'd cut the three week visit down to one if I were you. Neither you or your brother have to tolerate this behavior from her and neither of you should.
YOU are more important in your own life than your mother.
Thank you 🙏
"She has always suffered from depression and anxiety. It has quadrupled with age and it's causing herself and myself and my brother a lot of distress."
You, yourself are in need of self care. May I ask, given that your mother was never any different, why would you take on this responsibility as though you caused it and can fix it?
You cannot.
You say she is competent.
Then she will decide whether or not to seek help.
She is also responsible for the relationship between herself and her son. That is her problem and her responsibility and her choice.
You are ALSO RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN CHOICES. Don't make her mistake. Make better choices for yourself.
I wish you the best of luck. Truly. Not everything can be fixed, and it becomes a choice to wallow in it. My Dad used to giggle and say "lie down with pigs and you better expect to get up dirty." Stay out of it.
Stay for a week at most, and cut visits to 2x a year.
Your mother is ahead of the game by living with her son. Yet calls you repeatedly and you take the calls. Why? You continue to visit every 3/4 months for 3 weeks at a time. Why?
There is NO GOOD REASON mother "needs" your involvement to THIS degree. This level of neediness is a desire, not a need.
You are consciously subjecting yourself to this toxicity CONSTANTLY and asking how to handle it. You can't. The only way to handle this is to severely limit your exposure to the woman which you seem to refuse to do.
Get counseling to help you detach with love from the person who's causing you such misery. Recognize that happiness is an inside job......and not YOUR job to make mom happy or not miserable or to stop complaining. Such a thing is impossible yet you keep trying to accomplish the impossible and not achieving it.
As an adult, you're allowed to live your own life. Recognize that and set about doing so. Allow mother to liver her own life however she sees fit.
Good luck.
I don't know what I would have done without this forum. God bless the person who made this forum.
It's the only place that I can speak and vent and get proper advice that I trust because you all understand how I feel.
The answer to WHY is GUILT and co-dependency that my mum has ingrained in me since my childhood.
I never felt loved or liked by her and I have been chasing for that love and approval for 62 years only to realise that it will never come no matter what I do or say.
Her constant DAILY belittling, degrading, insulting, accusing, threatening of me and my brother has caused us both but more so me almost to insanity but with the help of this Forum and people like you and counselling I am managing to turn the corner " a little bit " and bit by bit accepting that I AM a good person.
I keep thinking what would I do if I lost her.
I know I will wobble as @Berti said and that does scare me.
I am listening to your advices and today I only had/made 2 phone calls ...felt weird
Thank you
🙏
Fear, Obligation and Guilt. Google that term. Look at the website.
Only you can change your behavior.
Never Simple by Liz Scheier
https://outofthefog.website/
Please get these books, visits these websites.
Misery loves company. Don’t be her company. Don’t even think about inviting her to live in your home.
You don’t owe her anything. You deserve to live in peace.
Do make an appointment with a therapist to help you sort through your emotions.
Do let go of your desire to make things better for her. Your mom isn’t willing to do whatever is necessary to create a better life for herself.
As hard as it is to believe, some people want to be miserable and they really get off on making others miserable.
Grieve for the mom that you wish you could have had. Find other places to put your time and energy into. There are plenty of people who will appreciate you.
Wishing you and your brother peace. Encourage him to leave so he can resume his life without your nagging mother spewing her toxic venom.
Moms 88, and I I have 2 brothers with major health issues. I had a 2 day break from it all, I was feeling amazing, until my brother called least night, to ask me to bring him to a doctor's appointment, if he doesn't feel well, which is a reminder of his issues, then he was venting a little about mom. But very understandable.
My anxiety went from 0 to 100. I know have no doubt where my anxiety comes from. And my next physical Im going to ask about anxiety meds. Which I've been being very stubborn about.
If I get some sort of normal/ good news from mom / brother then I anxiety seems to calm down and I actually feel myself light and happy(ISH) but then when I get a call of bad news or my mom complaining about how her life is so miserable then my heart rate goes up and I start to tremble and feel so anxious....what is the solution to this ? I have started my antidepressants again today ..is that it ? Pop a pill and hope for the best ?
I am also working harder on compartmentalizing all this. When I'm not at my mom's Im working on not thinking about everything, trying to treat it more like a job and leave the job at the door. And not worry, if my brother takes mom to the doctors, all these things go through my head, like at the doctor's there is a pot whole, will my brother see it, will he not let her fall. ECT...... I am really learning to let some of that stuff in my head go. And it is helping
If you were diabetic, would you not take insulin bc it's "weak" to do so? Ask yourselves that question ladies. And ditch the "stigma" you mat attach to antidepressants. I suffered a horrible childhood due to a mother who refused to address her anxiety.
sorry to hear all of this.
We cannot do this to ourselves. How long can we go on?
For me, my blood pressure is high (while my dads is totally fine). I'm gaining weight. Adding on to my own health concerns and medical problems at age 54, catering to my narcissist 87 year old dad. What am I doing to myself?! I have a wife and 19 year old son who still want me around and to be healthy. At my pace the past year, I was tracking to be 6 feet under prior to my dad getting there.
So I've been backing away , progressively and slowly, and will continue to do so until my own health is no longer at risk. Thats my plan now.
So- be careful. How long can you keep this up?
Also, please dont feel lonely, We are here with you. Its not a lonely planet, we are all in this together.
You are right. My own health is very much deteriorating with anxiety, palpitations. BP..etc etc.. I am 62 and sometimes feel my mum will outlive me. I am trying to cut down this co-dependency and addiction to toxicity and negativity of my mum.
The answer of why ? Mine is guilt and even though I KNOW I haven't done anything to feel guilty about, it's hard to shake it off.
All the best x
A weekend is enough a few times a year .
And a phone call or two a week is enough .
It isn’t your job to try to make her happy . And no matter what she won’t be happy .
She may complain that you don’t visit as much or call as much , but you tell her that you can’t handle the negativity . Tell her when she is pleasant , people would enjoy visiting her . Or just come up with fibs , you are busy blah blah blah .
I signed up to BetterHelp and had a session with a therapist but didn't like it so I cancelled my membership .
I feel this forum more helpful.
Personally, I would not use BetterHelp. I have heard several people say that they were not satisfied.
I had a wonderful therapist who truly helped me. Go see a therapist in person. Bypass doing online therapy.
Please don’t feel obligated to stick with a therapist that you aren’t comfortable with.
Do stay in therapy for a reasonable amount of time. It’s a process. Things don’t usually get messy overnight and they aren’t resolved overnight.
Wishing you all the best.
It's FICTION.
RE-write the story so that you become your own hero, your own best advocate and friend. Leve your mother out of this version.
Taking an antidepressant is not "popping a pill". These meds are not fast acting, not are they addicting. They exist to replace depleted brain chemicals. Depleted by years of abuse.
So WHY are you going to spend your time and money to be basically tortured by your Mother for 3 weeks? You ask, how do you handle this?
You cancel with any excuse you want. You have COVID, you can't get off work, you can't afford to come, car in the shop, whatever...Avoid going there. Do not cave in, plan something else to do! You need to see that catering to her whims doesn't help you at all. It only gives her the power over you she wants!
Stop those 3-4 calls a day (what is there to talk about?) for starters. Stop stressing yourself out visiting her 3 weeks on a quarterly basis! One short call a week is plenty! Don't even bother traveling to see her, especially staying 3 weeks?
The time you spend catering to your Mother is time you will never get back. Just the daily phone calls alone...3 calls @ 1 hour daily equals 21 hrs a week, or 1,092 hrs a year! That's over 45 days (6.5 wks) a year!? Take a real vacation instead!
You left home at 16 for a reason...repeat that reason to yourself every day. Don't feel guilty or sorry for anyone who has "never been nice to you." Stop rewarding her bad behavior...let her calls go to Voice Mail.
I REALLY feel I need professional help. I feel I am lost in orbit.
I found a good organisation locally but Do I need a Psychologist, CBT therapy or counselling ?
I feel I need a Psychologist to really get inside my brain and take all the garbage out and let my brain breath a little.
I feel it's crammed.
Deciding to go to therapy is a wise choice. I am proud of you for taking this first step. I found therapy to be very useful.
Be selective about the therapist you choose, preferably in person. I would stay away from online sessions if possible.
I wouldn't put up with someone mean-mouthing me (the word of old Granny Clampett from the sitcom Beverly Hillbillies) I'm a bit of a fire horse myself and have a tendency to not be so nice. I blame this one on my other ancestry. I had a father like that and I lit into him one day. I told his wife in a nice way to shut up that this was between dad and me.
Please do not go and make your mental health worse. You owe this miserable person nothing. It sounds like FOG (Fear, obligation and guilt). No where in this triple delight is love mentioned in the equation. This is just duty and responsibility from the rantings from a miserably old woman.
Get therapy. Many of us are on autopilot to jump when these narcissists say jump.
The first words out of my mouth when my father died at ninety-three was good riddance! Towards the end he made all of his bio children's lives miserable. It just seemed like he was going to live forever with his miserable behavior that still affected me even from his grave. He was a miserable tyrant to his wife and his bio children. He idolized his second wife and her kids. He married the woman he cheated on mom with five months after she died. He left them everything in the will and gave each one of his bio children one dollar. I can laugh about this now because it is funny in a way. I am done having a skeleton torment me from his grave. Sounds like the makings from a horror movie, but just my dark humor coming into play here. I haven't visited his grave site, and he has been gone now for almost ten years.
We don't owe abusers a damn thing.
Your brother is an adult and he has to figure out his own life.