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Needing some advice, on how to create a professional contract with a caregiver in addition to confronting some unprofessionalism on an otherwise good worker.


I see often on the forum that caregivers are difficult to find, so I’m torn with what I’m experiencing.


I hired a caregiver through an agency to assist with my younger brother who is disabled. My mom experienced a rapid onset of dementia early this year and some emergency hospital/rehab stays, which made this necessary.


My 2 other brothers and I are in our 30s and I am currently 9 months pregnant. None of us are truly in the stage of life to be handling this. I am POA, and I’ve had to take the brunt of everything for the last 9 months leaving little time prepare for my baby.


One brother lives in another state ( does nothing), and the other one does the bare minimum, often leaving things unfinished for me to handle, and still leeches off of my mom financially.


With some extensive hard work on my end , My disabled brother is set to go into a group home in a few weeks, it is the best option for him since my mom is quickly on the decline.


The caregiver reached out to me In early October and said that she would be interested in helping my mom as an independent contractor , once my brother moves.


Originally, This seemed like a godsend, because I have been handling all my mom‘s needs, and needed a plan in place for when the baby comes.


On the good side, the caregiver is kind to my mom and brother, she is upbeat, seems to be handling the tasks pretty well, and Keeps the schedule fine.


She also has a lot of experience, and I noticed a lift in their mood since she started working with them.


However, over time, I’ve noticed this caregiver overstepping and crossing some boundaries with me.


She’s recently made comments on how “bored” my brother and mom are and expresses how “bad she feels for them” when I’m barely hanging on with their extreme needs, putting my whole life aside ,and getting nothing done for myself. Currently, they live in a huge house, have people cooking, cleaning, waiting on them, and don’t have to worry about a thing despite their health.


She’ll talk openly about how “messy” my mom is ( nothing knew and part of her job to clean), and talks ( in front of her ) about how she’s like a “cute little child”. This is hard because my mom was a fully functioning person in February. On top of everything I am grieving the rapid loss of my mom as I’m becoming a mom.


Yesterday, as I am picking my mom up for and errand after a stressful three hour appointment with her financial advisor, The caregiver proceeds to tell me how my younger (disabled) brother ( who I have done everything in my power to help, when no one else would) and my older brother refer to me as a “Hiltler”. Then in the same breath, she proceeded to ask me how much weight I’ve gained in my pregnancy.


???


I calmly brushed off the comments but they were infuriating.


Backstory- my relationships w/ my brothers have never been solid. They are entitled, dependent, and treated my mom like a servant until she started experiencing issues.


They tend to bite the hand that feeds them, and are unthankful. God for bid, any female stands up to them for anything, and they’re called a “b!tch”.


I already know who they are and how they feel about me. However, because of the toll this ordeal has taken on me personally, I was hurt and infuriated . I have done everything. In addition to that no one in my family even acknowledges that I’m this pregnant and I’m simply not able to keep the pace up anymore. I’m actually supposed to be quarantining right now but instead I’m tying up loose ends so my family is safe.


The caregiver is not the cause of my family dynamic, however I feel her comments are out of bounds, unwarranted, and very insensitive.


The problem is not her work, but her meddling in my already dysfunctional family.


Need advice , can’t lose her this late in my pregnancy.


Also a resource on creating a professional contract

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Please let your caregiver voice her own feelings about things. I have had to end a relationship (other than to express love) with a family member because anytime I express an opinion it is seen as a criticism to their caregiving. We DO feel bad about how bored the LOs are, how hampered the caregiver might be for the circumstances, a wish for things to be House Beautiful all the time. It doesn't mean we think it is possible! We truly appreciate all you do!!!!
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After reading numerous responses to this post, my advise is to put up with her until you have your baby and recover, don’t do a contract and then dismiss her at your convenience. You’ve told us enough to
make it clear that she is causing enough trouble, aggravation, and anxiety not to be worth putting up with no matter how good a caregiver she is. If she’s doing this to you, consider what she may be saying and doing to your mother and brothers.
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It sounds to me that you have a good caregiver. You, your mom and brother seem to be well pleased with the care and they are thriving. That is a very good thing.

The problem is, the caregiver seems to talk a little too much and doesn't know how to hold her words.

Sometimes people that like to talk too much do not realize that they are actually annoying/hurting the other person. What you need to do is have a talk with her.

Be nice to her but just let her know that her comments are not appreciated. I think she will understand.

People have good intentions, they just say too much or the wrong things.

My husband has a lot of health issues, therefore, I have to do extra work around the yard, etc. Just the other day, I was painting and my husband was resting. The neighbor came over and told my husband that I do all the work.

My husband told him that I knew his health issues and that I'm just helping him out. The neighbor stated to my husband, "You are just lazy." We both laughed. Neither of us was offended by his comment.

The neighbor is always making such comments. My husband and I don't pay him any attention because he is a good person but he just love making comments.

Anyway, You are doing a fine job making sure your mom and brother are receiving the care they need. Make sure you take care of you and do not let this stuff stress you out. You have a baby on the way.

Be blessed
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Oh Tholden, so many of the things you say are so so subtle, so difficult to pinpoint, but sooo similar to what I've experienced very recently that I had to stop and write to you...

I completely understand how much you are in need of help.
But what you are feeling is spot on, this is NOT an aide you want to keep, it doesn't matter how skilled and experienced she is. You need someone who might burn dinner or is a bit messier than you would like, but has a heart, and empathy, and is a transparent person.

Reading your post made all my alarms turn red.
The person that I hired for my mom just last month seemed a godsend, highly professional, very experienced and kind, until she had the contract. After that, things changed, a lot.

These are the things that should have have put me on alert:

1. She was hired through an Agency first, but from day one she asked me for a direct contract. Caroli1 is right, this is a red flag, that I didn't see.

2. She started making condescending comments about my mom, in her presence, treating her like a little demented child, or even awful ones, also in her presence, like she wasn't there, like "When she will be very ill and not able to move from bed I will need more money" or "This dress you are wearing young lady (to my mom, in one of her favourite purple and elegant dresses) is the colour of death" (!!!???)

3. She tried to insert herself between my mother and I, making me feel like I was not necessary and actually a burden to both of them

4 She told me she didn't like the area where we live (the city center) and kept making comparison on how nice the area she used to work was instead.

5. She told me that I was being paranoid about COVID and she kept using public transports and meeting friends even when I begged her to keep her time out just for walks when the situation was precipitating in my country; she told me I was making her feel "anxious" and that she was taking ginger tea with honey as a COVID prevention, and so should I.

And much more.
Thanks God she decided to leave because she got scared of some protests we had very close to home.

I was extremely distraught at the thought of having everything on me once again, but just a few days before she left, when she had already found another job, I had the final confirmation; she openly told me that just before working for us (2 weeks before), she had been working in the COVID area of a private home, with dozens of ill people, and that one of her duties was to carry dead people to the morgue. She told me all this with a smile, and a blink in her eyes which I can just describe as evil.
Before the contract, she had told us she had been home, unemployed and in a lockdown for months. She lied to the agency too, and she didn't even think to test herself for COVID before coming to work for my mom, who's 93.

The risk that I took made me cry, for days. I felt so irresponsible and naive, it destroyed all the pride I had for caring for my mom so attentively. It destroyed my trust in humanity, really.

The week she left - 3 weeks ago - I was so relieved, and the same time overwhelmed by new insecurities in my self, and fear about the future, that is hard to describe how bad I felt.

This post doesn't imply in any way that all carers are dangerous, of course, I just hope that what I've learned from this very painful experience can be useful to you:

* Do not let the relief of having found some help interfere with taking ALL the time and steps needed to see if you can really trust the aide.
* Wait at least 6 months, or more, before hiring an aide directly.
I wasted a whole month for all the paperworks needed, and spent more money to arrange the contract through the agency than I would have spent carrying on with the Agency as employer. Agencies work like a buffer, they truly keep the distance you need between the aid and the family, in all senses.
* Ask references both to the Agency and to the previous families, in detail.

With much empathy
Arwen
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Sendhelp Nov 2020
Thank you Arwen for sharing these details about your own experience!
That was an amazing story.
It also calls to mind why many employers can identify prospective employees as being "Over qualified".

We just don't have the ability to detect lies, so being taken in, especially when we are more desperate for help, is no one's fault. It happens.

Sorry that happened to you and your Mom.
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You could also ask your hubs to help step up while you are enjoying motherhood. Perhaps he can play interference for you. I asked my hubster bc I couldnt take any more stress. He gladly stepped in. And enjoyed it! Whereas I was about to loose it. But he doesn't have the emotional baggage/warped fam history that can trigger us.
Altho I ran into the problem of trying to go back to handling everything myself, when the stress level was lowered. He felt left out. So I keep him informed of all things. We are in this together/same page. That has been a godsend. When I tell him this is too much for me. He gladly steps up. Thank goodness!
I also think if your husb runs interference, he can call them on their crap, your brothers may knock it off. Another guy sees how they are acting like a bully/jerk. Saying things to the paid help just stirs the pot. They know she will tell you, and increase your stress. She cant tell them to keep their comments to themselves.
Id also secure all valuables/credit cards/check books, knick knacks, for safe keeping off premises, if you cut brother off from getting funds. Things may get pawned or disappear and no one knows anything.
A relative moved into my furnished grandmother's house, after she went to nursing home. Things started disappearing bc family member thought, my mom was in control of the $, Im entitled to something too/jealous. Didnt lift a finger, got free rent, thought my mom was keeping money, not using it for $$$ nursing home. Stole everything not nailed down. And had no idea where those items went.

I also made an Exel spread sheet of what funds are used for, with a small detail about it. Any time they complain your getting the money/paying yourself huge funds, you can send an email. Here are expensives. It would probably take 1 time for them to see spread sheet, and back off. Maybe some jealousy and sniping would stop.
I did that in case my sibling complained, I was spending estate $ on myself. I just put in what I spent check/debit card it on, and what it was for. My lawyer liked that too. Only takes a few mins Every time you spend money that day, at end of day input it. Sounds complicated but it isn't. I am not good at spread sheets, but I can type in a horizontal line, debit card, date, used for gas/groceries that day, then save. Takes me more time to turn computer on, than input info. Id forget to put debit card info in check book, then have to go thru receipts. It sounds like more work but it takes 2 mins if that. Good luck.
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Please give us an update as to how you are doing when your precious baby is born.

This is a time that should be anticipated with great joy!

Ignore any unpleasantness! Take care and wishing you all the best in life.
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Just want to say I’m extremely grateful for so much of the helpful advice that I’ve been getting from everybody. I’m so new at this, it’s taking me so many months of research and digging through paperwork to make sure I do the right thing for her and my brother. This was also mixed with the emergencies that kept occurring and my mom becoming nonverbal.
I see some people who’ve been doing this for 15 years, 24/7 caregivers who know so much and perhaps had similar experiences.
I don’t have any older relatives and being in my 30s, none of my friends are in this stage. I’ve had to rely on endless phone calls, and research. This site makes me feel like I have a bunch of wise aunts and uncles to talk to .
Thank you to all those who take the time to truly answer questions, give advice on how they’ve handled situations like this in the past, and point out important things that I may be overlooking.
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cherokeegrrl54 Nov 2020
You are exactly correct in what you say about the very caring people on this forum. Please try to take good care of you.....and best wishes for your little one soon to arrive! Liz
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Id tell worker- woah that is uncalled for! And going forth I do not want to hear comments any more. Put it back on her. Why are you telling me this? Im 9 months pregnant. Stop stressing me. Its uncalled for. And give her a stern look like what is wrong with you. She is not your friend! She just proved it right there. Sounds like jealously. Probably to knock you down a peg bc you are competent, and she can take advantage of you later. She's not doing you any favors. She is a paid worker. Keep those boundaries intact. Bc she is crossing them, it will only get worse! She'll give sob stories, need paid days off, be late, no show, cry about she's broke for the holidays and cant afford gifts etc. Dont do it!! Keep it strictly professional.

Now is the time to start backing off. Tell worker she is there for a job, but not to partake in gossip and its very unprofessional. I bet she knows she's out of bounds. When she said they are bored, too bad. They can find something to do. You are not activities director. Walk away. End of conversation.
As for the b***h thing,( I've been called that many times) I say- well I am. And I'm a good one. Thank you. You think I'm a b***h, you haven't seen b***h, but you will. Keep it up. Why is brother complaining to the help? Guys say that to put down women. Wear it proudly and the insult backfires. I say wow he really called me that? And start laughing. Really have a good laugh, and say is that is the best he can do? I must hear more. Go ahead. Now thats funny! I've embarrassed many a guy. They weren't expecting that come back. He isn't really good at insults is he? And look sad. Stops them every time. It should work for her too in over sharing She wanted a reaction. Now she didn't get the one she wanted.

Id say I'm having my baby I will be avail less. Tell help you only need to be aware of important things. Not every conversation with your family every day. You dont have time for that. If you hire a doughnut maker, you dont need to hear how the doughnuts are made blow by blow. Thats rediculious. Negative comments will not be discussed.

Start screening phone calls. And limit time you are available to help. This should not be consuming your life. You are paying the worker FOR A JOB. You dont need to hear how their day went. You are not her confessor. Nip it in the bud. I think the worker is enjoying stirring the pot. Her payoff is to knock you down a peg, and to pretend to be concerned for you. Neither are helpful. Nor should that work.
From now on you only want to hear about emergencies. And it better be an emergency. Do not make her your friend!!!! She proved she cannot be, but it is paramount you keep those work boundaries.
I would continue to look for another carer. If she complains say you are looking for a backup, or another so you have all your bases covered. If she doesn't like it too bad she in an employee not your friend! You don't even have to tell her. Just dont need her that day. I think that will straighten her up. If you have a formal contract you have to pay taxes etc. And insurance in case someone gets hurt. Is she covered under home owner's policy??
I think you should look for a back up person. But you have to get a backbone and tell her that you don't want to hear gossip. Or that mom is messy. She was hired for that job. If she complains she must not be up to the task. You will find someone who is. Id sit down and tell her about the job, and that going forth you are limiting ALL STRESS! I think that will be a wake up call to her. She'll knock it off. Be completely devoid of emotion, professional when telling her this. You no longer want to hear family gossip, or any other daily minutiae going foward. Dont be angry, be matter of fact, no emotion.
Gold luck with your new baby. And take time off for you. If brother contacts you with problems you are unavailable. Id give him a what for complaining to the help. Congratulations! Might let husb play interference whilst recoup
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aikigal Nov 2020
Jasmina, I love your response! I think it is spot on. Just to help Tholden know when something is a "real" emergency, my husband gave me some helpful advice. Don't call me unless it is one of the 4-Bs: Blood, Barf, Boogers, or Broken bones. Had a careworker helping my mom and tried to tell her to contact me for emergencies only. Suddenly everything was an "emergency". So this helped set that boundary.
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You certainly don’t need this stress during your pregnancy.

I sincerely hope that everything works out well for you.

Take care. Best wishes to you and your new baby!
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Imho, I did see your update, Tholden with your plan.
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what is the nature and how much cleaning are you expecting this caregiver to do? You stated your mom is really messy and cleaning is “part of job”.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Cleaning crumbs off the counter, sweeping the floor, The dishes which is basically only plastic container Tupperware because that’s the only place my mom keeps her food in.
my mom has a bad habit of leaving a trail of crumbs.
she’s also been condensed to the first floor so that includes a bedroom, and a kitchen.
note: it’s literally in her job description “light cleaning”, and that’s all she’s doing.

in addition all deep cleaning has been done by me and my husband. she also does leave her clothes on the floor in her bedroom.
also, I handled the job for five months prior to her arrival, so I am fully aware of the daily maintenance it most likely takes. at most 15 to 20 minutes a day. so to answer your question, light cleaning.
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I would say that's her personality and it probably won't change. Some folks also know when they are picking a scab to someone else's wound. I mean there's only one reason people tell you that someone else doesn't like you or has that special 'hitler' name for you. It's intended to inflict a little harm without the comment coming directly from her. These people 'with good intentions' that share something like that with you are just pot stirrers. It won't change. Might not share with you, but you can bet they will use your own comments to stir another pot. When your brother leaves, let her go. Find someone else to care for mom if needed.
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Being a caretaker my self , my heart goes out to you . I am not sure the biggest problem is the caretaker. When reading your responses I see a wonderful daughter that is spread so thin that she needs help. You are doing the work of multiple people AND just about to give birth. The caretaker might just want nasty brother not to talk to her, thinking that if you know about it , you might be able to stop him. Your life will change dramatically when the baby is born . Hormones will go crazy . You will get no sleep for months . The stress is enormous. Maybe you could find a caretakers group , mine meets on line these days. Can you put a lid on your moms bank account so she can’t give nasty brother any more money? She will need the $ if she needs a facility in the future. I am not sure I would do anything about the caretaker right now. You said she takes good care of mom . Maybe if she starts on about what nasty says , just shut her down. Maybe just a “consider the source “ response. ..? You know mom is safe for now. Try to bring the energy back to the coming of the baby. One day at a time . First things first. You are tired but you also have the power and the strength, I hope you know that. Everything does NOT have to be taken care of today except yourself and the baby. Good luck and warm thoughts.
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Sarah3 Nov 2020
I agree, the caregiver sounds like she’s doing a really good job but I don’t recommend the op discourage anything but open transparent communication of how things are going. Why should the caregiver feel like she has to stifle concerns she has, the op should want to hear the concerns. Being pregnant I think it’s too much at this point as you feel and that someone should be in charge who is able to handle hearing how things are. No caregiver babysitter nanny etc should feel hesitant to share how things really are going so as not to upset the contact person.
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You might want to ask the caregiver if she's aware that insulting and stressing out a pregnant woman can harm her baby. And insulting and stressing out your boss can harm your paycheck. It would only be worth keeping her if she lowered your stress and stayed out of your family dynamic completely, but she's chosen a side and it's not the right --or even the smart--one. Even if she knew absolutely nothing about any member of the family, she should have known better than to insult the woman who holds all the power. You don't want an idiot looking after your mother.
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Sarah3 Nov 2020
What in your opinion sounds as if the caregiver deliberately “insulted” the op??
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Fire the caregiver. FIRE HER.

And see an eldercare attorney regarding caregiver's contract and you will need to see a tax lawyer to set up a corporation for maximum deductions. Caregiving is a very serious business with a 5 year look back law and estate recovery law. Anything that goes into probate Medicaid can seize after she dies.
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Caroli1 response is spot on and exactly what I was going to suggest. She is violating her duties and responsibilities. She is NOT a family member and has no place inserting herself. Call the agency and request a new person and report this one. One could argue for an 'Elder at Risk' report to Adult Protective Services as well.
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I would be concerned as this caregiver is a boundary crosser and not a very nice person. It makes me wonder about her judgement too. So, even if she appears to be good as a care giver, I would wonder about her boundary crossing and decision making in that area too.
Rarely do these people get better, so she is going to irritate and cause trouble for the forseeable.
I suppose the decision you have is how much time and energy you have now and whether to change the carerer now, or later. Think about what will work best for you and your baby. Congratulations! Try not to wear yourself out at this point as you will need your energy later. xx
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Continued:
In this meeting tell the brother that comes to Mom for money he has to come to you. You have POA. Your Mom may not like you takign over the money agree to sit down with her once a month to go over the budget, all financial issues.

as far as the contact goes find a caregiver or a caregiver service offer to pay them a consulting fee to give you tips on the agreement. Maybe they will give you the template they use.

Find the local or county Senior services organization and ask for their help and guidance. They will have all kinds of resources for you.

Also if you have not get an elder care attorney and ask for their help with the agreement.

Keep in mind you are taking something on that 1000s of households are a doing everyday. So you should be able to find duplicatable information and processes to help you thru it.

New baby, Elder Mom, handicap brother. You are taking on a load. Best of success.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Thank you so much, this is all helpful.
you put a lot of information in here so I’m just taking it in and I appreciate you taking the time to answer this question.
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I assume the care giver is NOT a live in? Introducing a written agreement AFTER they have started doing the work can be a very difficult thing to do. Your going to put conditions in writing that are different than how it is currently being done, that can be a cause of hard feelings. After the caregiver gets the written agreement do not be suprised if she walks.
I assume you have a husband? How helpful is he? It is critical you have his full support. You have a new baby coming two family members that you are helping and an employee (caregiver) to deal with. I hope you do not have a job too? You have really got a load here and he needs to clearly understand and support this. If he does not I urge you to find someone else to handle your family members and that may include turning over POA. This could be a 20 year commitment. If your husband is not fully on board it is not a question of if it is a question of when this family responsibility is going to start causing problems in your marriage. It can cause resentment and anger between the two of you and it will get very deep seeded. Do NOT assume he is fully on board. I know from personal experience with this caregiving stuff if you both do not agree that the marriage is the priority relationship and you both are not in full support of what your doing here the survival of the marriage WILL be at risk. Maybe not now but it will happen soon. Have a very frank conversation with him about this. You are now running two households. I'm telling you when everyone is cooperative and supportive it is difficult. you have family members (spouse, Mom, brothers) that are not fully supportive or worse start working against you.. It can become a gruelling situation that will do permanent harm to relationships.

My wife dealt with this for 15 yrs for both parents then just her Mom after Dad died. Because my wife became obsessed with taking care of her parents and her Mother abused the situation our marriage did not survive.
In this role you are now a manager, a leader. You won't be successful and you will get ran all over by the family members and the care givers if you treat this like your the daughter/sister. Believe it or not that is a different relationship. Your now managing an employee (caregiver) and finances and other dynamics. Just like at work the manager has to make unpopular decisions.
FIRST: You need to establish with ALL family members and the caregiver it should be a group meeting. You have POA and good or bad you have final say. (Yes your Mother does not have final say anymore) While in this meeting clarify your brother hitting your Mother up for money stops today. You hold Power of attorney you have FULL control over the money. If he does need something he needs to come to you. In this meeting clarify the caregiver reports to you. In her reporting to you she needs to show the same courtesy and respect she would show any manager she has. If she has a problem with this you may have to part. Let her know the relationship between the two of you MUST be a trusting respectful relationship. The caregiver can really make this dynamic difficult and undermine you with your Mom and brother if it is not. So issues of caregivers pay, hours, outline of duties and responsibilities caregiver negotiates this with you and takes direction from you. Of course Mom and brother are in the house with her so if they need something done like a meal made it does not have to go thru you. BUT you will have in the agreement caregiver is responsible for meals prep (understand what I mean) Mom and brother can refer to you as Hitler, (and they will dog you to the caregiver) whatever. (coach the caregiver if Mom or brother say deragatory things about you they need to take it up with you, she is not going to listen to degrading talk about her boss)It doesn't change things your in charge.
Out of space will open a new box
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Fire her. I had a good care taker who started to control the information flow. I confronted her and fired her. I ma now doing interviews to find a new person.
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From the sounds of it care for mom would not be Medicaid.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Yep,Correct. She is Medicare, would not qualify for medicaid yet.
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Something I just thought of, check the contract with the agency often there is a stipulation that if you hire them away from the agency you will pay them a "finders fee". In my mom's case that was $10,000. No we did not do that.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Good to know. I will double check that. We never signed a contract With the agency - its through Medicaid for ‘Community and homebased services” For my brother.
Very useful info regardless.
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THolden, it sounds like you have a good plan, well done!

One thing that I would caution, dementia changes our loved one in ways we could have never imagined. Please do not depend on what the past relationship has been in determining what will be. It is possible that your mom could turn on you because her brain is broken and it is no longer the mom that you know and love. I am sorry that you are losing her to this damnable disease.

Congratulations on your upcoming birth! Such a marvelous time for you and your husband, may God grant you peace with your family situation and give you an easy birth. May you have much joy with your new family member.
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So sorry you are going through this at what is supposed to be a happy time, being pregnant. It is sad that your Mom has had such a rapid decline. 💞❤️️💞

Each time the caregiver says something like that to you, say this:

"You would be surprised what they say about you, but it would be cruel to tell you".

"I promise, when my family says those things about you, I will keep it confidential, and not spread gossip that might hurt your feelings."

Maybe you can find a caregiver who has not lost her filter at a later time.

It is up to you how far you will allow this to go. Unfortunately, her behavior is an indication of more under the surface. Not sure, but her words come under the term 'gossip'. If you correct her, she may not tell you anymore, but will still be a gossip.

Boundaries up new Mom. You can create more of a professional distance.
Maybe other caregivers can tell you how.

As for hiring her away from the agency, maybe not a good plan. You have the recourse to ask for a different caregiver, and the option to tell the agency about her being indiscreet with her words. (gossip), and let them handle it. If you hire her away, and have a contract, you will feel guilty later letting her go. You may get stuck with her.

You have options. You are the boss. Tell her you have reconsidered hiring her away from the agency due to legal requirements, and want to leave things as they are, with her continuing with the agency.

Then, ask the agency to send a second caregiver, making it two shifts or every other day, on a schedule you have designed. This will also serve to limit Caregiver #1's hours, and hopefully, limiting the damages possible.

There were some red flags: 1) She is unhappy working for the agency.
2) She set requirements on you: that she will work for only your Mom, not your disabled brother.
I feel a takeover could be on the horizon. Dysfunctional families are often targets of takeovers. imo.

Be careful. You do need to relax during your pregnancy. Your weight gain is beyond her purview, as you have already said, and I agree, it is unprofessional.
Stop sharing your own personal stuff with her maybe.

Hope you can take some time to put your feet up soon.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
My younger brother is going into a group home ( currently waiting on the award letter from the state ) so she won’t be working for my younger brother anymore. But that’s only because he’s moving out and not because she saying she won’t do it.
She was originally hired for my brother through the agency.
The side plan for my mom came about because she offered and with my baby due at the end of November, I needed to have someone there for my mom Because I was the one doing everything for her. At the time I was really liking how she was treating my mom and brother. She also is certified and used to have her own business and started working for an agency because she claims she got tired of running a business and some of her longtime clients went into nursing homes or passed away in the last year.
Either way, I think you’re incredibly right about the dysfunction of a family being a target. Also my mom lives in a really nice neighborhood with a big house, so I think something about that could be appealing.
Strictly professional needs to be communicated ASAP or else I probably have to figure something out. I don’t tell her too much information, my older brother / younger is more likely to take the opportunity to vent and tell extremely personal information. my mom is nonverbal right now.
I don’t seek her out for any sound boarding, but occasionally she is there and witnessing something very stressful.
I just wish I had more time to figure this out because this seemed to come out super suddenly.
I did talk to my moms elderly law attorney, and she said no contract for a few months is fine.
Either way I’m totally rethinking the situation now.
thanks for pointing some things out I maybe wasn’t thinking of.
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Tholden, I so feel for you. I overheard myself being referred to as "the tissue Nazi" - that one occasion was a joke, though, and I wasn't offended at all - but was far more angry and upset when I realised my dear brother was making "yada yada yada" faces behind my back to my mother when I was explaining to her that she was in hospital because she had been abusing NSAIDs, given herself a bleeding gastric ulcer, and lied through her teeth about it for nearly a week. It's hardly an exaggeration to say that mother owed her life to an unusually alert and conscientious GP who noticed mother had missed an appointment and decided to call in on her way home. What if the GP had happened to live in the opposite direction?

For which personal reason, I think if I were you I might be more concerned about what your brothers are saying to your mother. If it undermines you, it undermines her care. Far more of an issue.

You can't have a good working relationship with someone who, seriously now, tries to get a rise out of you. I think you will have to thrash this out with her, and I think it's a very good idea to have an "observer" with you. But approach the discussion with the aim of retaining her so that you keep it positive, more about what you do expect than about what's gone before.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Luckily, my relationship with my mom is pretty solid she’s a wonderful person. many of the issues experience with my brothers is because I’m trying to protect her.
I attribute so much of what I’ve learned to her.
but I should always be on the lookout because I don’t know how dementia is going to affect her mentally.
I’ve always been her only ally, even though she has been an enabler for my brothers.
but your story sounds super intense. It’s amazing how the person who has to make all the hard decisions received the most critiscm or is label the “bad guy” whenever you one else around you gets to live there life.
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Tholden627

Sounds like your plate is full. I also had to start caregiving at a young age with my own young family and it's a difficult place to be. Sibling dynamics can be difficult.

1) Do you have POA for your MOM? I noticed you had it for your brother. If your Mom has already started with Dementia but still has most of her senses, THIS is the time to discuss POA. Explain to your Mom that although you love her and your special needs brother and want to help, you can not do it unless you have complete control on decisions due to the strained relationship with your brothers. Tell her it will be her decision and if she can't agree to that, then I would tell her that all POA's will need to be transferred to another sibling and they will have to handle everything. Sometimes, this is the only alternative with siblings who don't want or can't help and be part of the solution.
It seems harsh but in the end, sometimes this is the best thing to do. Joint caregiving only works with siblings who are close and will work with each other to do what's best for the patients.
2)Talk to agency right away about the unprofessionalism of the caregiver you hired. If it does not improve immediately, tell them to send another person ASAP! If she stays, have a sit down meeting with your husband or another third party and be very specific about the caregiver role and her responsibilities. If there are questions or she fights back, then replace them immediately. I've known and heard multiple stories of caregivers coming in and talking the patient into changing financial papers, etc and also just sowing discord. When you set guidelines, include that although your Mom or brother may make comments about you or the other siblings, they are to remain professional and change the subject and that although they may have a different approach to caregiving these are your rules. You appreciate the help, however, they are a hired employee and strict relationship rules will be followed. No personal comments or intrusions will be tolerated.
3)Enjoy your role in Motherhood. It will be difficult with the added burden of caregiving, but you will never get this time back. If necessary place all bills and finances off to the side for a 6 week period to bond with your baby. When a creditor or Finance person calls about your Mom or Brother, if it's not life threatening then put it off for awhile. I've had to deal with tons of Financial issues with my grandparents and my Mom, they will still be there when you get back to them. You will not be held financially responsible for their bills.

Hope this helps.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Such great advice on communicating with the caregiver and if that doesn’t work, I definitely need to go through the agency.
I appreciate the fair warning on caregivers sometimes coming in and messing with the family or finances of the individual. I think I do need to do a sweep to make sure all important documents are out of there and at my house. I wish I had more time to make this plan more solid.
Thank you.
I am POA Medical and financial for my mom and brother. My mom set all of that up in 2016 The more I uncover the more I saw she truly planned things out, before she started to decline the last year . I’ve spent months getting that in order so I Could access accounts to pay her bills ( she lost track for 6 month with out Me knowing) And took me months to fix. Found a great financial advisor and elderly law attorney so her funds are properly used for care and living. The special needs lawyer Help me get proper trusts for my younger brother, and made sure I was doing everything I need to do to get his funding approved.
Last step is putting everything on automatic bill pay. The financial part was so hard, but I knew if I didn’t do something she could’ve been kicked out of her house. She lost her job in February and forgot to file the proper paperwork for her Social Security so she had no funds. Took forever to figure that all out but finally did.
The problem is I’m mainly experiencing are my brothers attitude, and now the strange behavior the caregiver, and I really don’t want to be worrying about that right now.
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She has overstepped a number of lines. So first of all - like you need telling! - I just wanted to assure you that you are not overreacting or being too sensitive.

I see you also recognise, quite rightly, that she did not create the difficulties with your sniper-brothers.

A person who is a good personality match for a young adult is not necessarily going to glide into the role of caregiver in a household where it's you and your older-adult mother (+ new baby). When your brother moves into his new home it might be a good opportunity just to let her contract come to a natural end.

If, on the other hand, you think you would struggle to find anyone better for your mother, then it will be necessary to have conversations about ground rules, expectations and - granted, she's not wrong about enrichment and stimulation, in due course - your mother's care plan looking ahead.

However. There is one immediate thing. It is not acceptable for your employee to discuss your personal life with anyone; and in terms of basic good manners it's not really okay to ask anyone deeply personal questions about their pregnancy.

Mind you, on the first half of that - she didn't, really, did she. She was just reporting back information she thought you ought to know. You did right to brush it off. Did she tell you how she herself had responded to these disparaging remarks about you?
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
I don’t live with them, so it’s really important for me to feel like I can trust the person. I trust she won’t put them in danger, but I’m worrying if she’s going to create problems additional problems in the family dynamic!
This is actually the third time she’s brought up to me some of the nasty things my brothers have said.
she “claimed” she told him she didn’t want to be involved.
I tried to help her by telling my brother to not talk about personal things regarding family with her, Because she’s there to take care of my and mom only. I did this to try to support her, because I felt like it was some thing I should try to mitigate.
I feel like she keeps bringing it up, and it makes me really wonder what her deal is.
this time, she did it while I was walking out the door trying to get my mom to an appointment. she did it in a very loud manner and was loudly laughing at it as if it’s some kind of joke, when the last two times she brought it up it clearly wasn’t a joke. So the thought I had was “I thought we went over this” and it was done in a way that seems like it was she was trying to get a rise out of me. But I really don’t know for sure. I can just tell when someone’s being harmless, and unintentional versus possibly an ulterior motive. It was a big red flag when I thought the situation was set. I got worried, so I took to this forum because again, I’m so close to having my baby.

I’m so sorry, it’s so hard to paint a picture in writing but I appreciate you asking more questions.
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The majority of caregivers I had through Council on Aging were excellent. The same for home health caregivers.

There were a couple of issues that I discussed with the agency, not the caregiver. Let the agency address your concerns.

Best wishes to you with your new baby and sorting this out.
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Mare sure whst she says is really what is bothering you and not that you are really strained and over burdened and your hormones are making you take what she says worse than you would normally.

Right now, you need her and it sounds like she's pretty good other than a few comments.

I would start off any contract on a Trial Basis with her to see if it works out like 3 or 6 months, where you are able at any time to give her a 30 or 60 day notice that things aren't working out.

Right now, you should have a talk with her letting her know all the things you like about her, then talk about things that upset you and ask her to tell you what concerns she may have and then get feed back from her and ya'll decide if there's a common ground and see if ya'll can both live with it.

Bur, take note that Caregivers, especially Live In's do sort of become part of the family.

But, your talk to openly lay out what is expected and acceptable prior to any Contract. Would be a good start
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
I spoke with the lawyer yesterday and she said a short term would be fine without a contract.

It is how she’s saying it. Being pregnant doesn’t make you completely irrational about everything ( just in case you were wondering ). I actually am not able to fit in the other times she has meddled or said something semi-offensive. It’s actually been increasing recently. I had fit in how my brothers are to work with and how they’re not very supportive.
Commonsense says that anyone working for someone else shouldn’t be speaking that way to the person paying them. You should not be meddling in personal family affairs.

I’ll definitely be having a chat with her. My husband decided he would like to be there as well backing me.
he understands my family dynamic, and knows how much work it requires to get my brother to cooperate or do anything. he’s also in the eye witness as to how much my brothers still take advantage of my mom even though she’s in her condition. Causing problems in a family crisis like this has made the stress levels skyrocket. In the end I’m just trying to find relief so I can go have a baby in 3 weeks. So tensions, are naturally going to be high because I don’t want anything to happen to my mom or brother while I’m giving birth.
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Always search this site for information you are seeking.

Contracts?

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/personal-care-agreements-compensate-family-caregivers-181562.htm
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Thank you for this. I spoke with her elderly law attorney yesterday, and they said that because of how short term it is it should be fine. It would be around three months at most because being the one handling everything, I really truly have to go have a baby.
In addition to that my mom has a long-term care policy that we are waiting on to get details and if that were the case we would definitely go through the agency. This is a new development.
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