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My husband's assisted living, which seems like a decent place, has had high staff turnover lately. I am getting concerned.

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Oft times jobs in LTC are both taxing and poorly paid. It is said that there are many more in the aging community needing help, many more long term care facilities, and jobs just now seem plentiful in all areas of working. What was once sort of a norm is becoming in some places an emergency from what I hear.
I DO think that terrific facilities, those that are well staffed and pay a bit more, those encouraging a staff to sees elder care as a vocation, keep staff more readily than others.

Overall I believe your surmise is correct. It's currently tough to keep staff. This isn't just in elder care. In my own neighborhood I see shops of all kinds closing because they cannot keep staff.
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I'm a potential care receiver, but I've learned a lot from this Forum. I guess I was somewhat naive in my 60s-70s not to have foreseen/prepared for these 3 things. That: (1) I, now 86, (and my spouse, now 93) would live as long as we have--which neither of us expected, intended or wanted!; (2) inflation would be as high as it is; (3) there is almost no reliable help to be hired for any price that middle-class older adults on a moderate fixed income can afford.

I just will NOT burden our adult child(ren) with our care, so I need to figure something out. So far, we're managing on our own with a twice-monthly housecleaner and occasional yard and home maintenance workers, but after following this Forum for a while, I'm good and scared about what the future holds. We just got notified by our long-term care insurer that we have "options": to continue our current, good coverage but at ever-increasing and potentially unaffordable premiums, or accept a lower or zero premium "buyout" that would maybe cover a year or two of NH or ALF care for ONE of us. We've been paying into this for 25 years! I feel cheated, but it is what it is. We saved as much as we could and tried to prepare for our older years, but . . . here we are.

At this point I'm NO fan of longevity! We have all our legal paperwork in order (wills, POAs, healthcare directives, POLSTs). No passports, though, which would be necessary for a visit to Zurich. . .
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NeedHelpWithMom May 19, 2023
Thank you for telling the story of many people. So very true!

My mom lived to be 95, my uncle, mom’s brother lived to be 96. My great aunts lived into their late 90’s.

My cousin is now 100, still dresses very stylishly and drives to church, the grocery, the dollar store, her exercise class, Walmart and lunch with her friends. She cooks and cleans her apartment and helps her neighbors in her independent living apartment. Oh, and she will tell me about her travel plans for next year! LOL 😆

I truly hope that I don’t inherit the longevity on my mother’s side of the family!

Old age is fine for people like my cousin who don’t have any major health issues and enough money to live comfortably. People who are burdened with health issues and financial difficulties feel stressed and don’t want the burden of a long life.

My dad died at 85.

Mom had Parkinson’s disease. When people would tell her that she would live to be 100, her answer would be, “Oh, God. I hope not!”
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I have seen a high turnover. They are always hiring new employees because of people leaving their positions. It’s hard work and low pay.

Let’s be honest, caring for the elderly is big business! The only people who are making money are the business owners. Lots of investors are cashing in!

More and more assisted living facilities are popping up. According to an article in written in April 2023, by Definitive Healthcare (difinitivehc.com) there are more than 33,000 assisted living facilities across our country.

The five largest cities for assisted living facilities are:

California - 5,808

Michigan - 3213

Wisconsin - 2859

Florida - 2524

Texas - 1612

The cities with the least amount of assisted living facilities are:

Hawaii - 18

Wyoming - 32

Delaware - 34

Rhode Island - 62

North Dakota - 84

Texas, California and Ohio have the most skilled nursing facilities.

Of course, there are also many agencies that supply health care for those who desire to ‘age in place’ in their homes.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 20, 2023
It’sMe,

Yes, quite a range.
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There is a fascinating article in Haven Senior Investments on assisted living facilities. According to the article, the U. S. will need nearly one million new senior living units by the year 2040. (havenseniorinvestments.com)

People are living longer! People older than 85 are estimated to double by 2036 and triple by 2049.

That’s a lot of job openings for caregivers! It’s an incredible opportunity for investors.
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polarbear May 20, 2023
Wow! That many elders needing help? Yikes!!! I hope there will be robots to help with the caregiving tasks by then. Can't see how there will be enough human caregivers to fill the need.
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Since Covid, yes this is very normal, and is seen in just about every care facility.
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Always high turnover because the pay is so low for the job. Cost of living is so high where I live that people can't survive on what they offer. I don't see how it will ever change as the privately owned companies focus only on profits and Medicaid can't afford to pay more per patient/person. As people are living longer and more caregivers are needed, this problem will continue to grow.

My mother is in a SNF and ever time I visit, I see a new face (and miss an old one). Saying that, everyone has always been kind and caring towards my mother. For me, this issue isn't turnover of staff, it is the number of caregivers as they are always short-staffed.
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There are probably many reasons for the high turnover. Mostly that it's hard work. The former director at the assisted living facility where my mom was told me she quit because of the corporation's new policies. She was the professional, a caregiver and nutritionist for 20 years, and the new owners knew nothing about elder care. The facility was once private and is now owned by a corporation that bought up several other businesses in my small city. I could go on an on about how they've ruined all of their acquired businesses, but I won't. I see this corporate take over as a really bad sign for our future. Money made at the top and everyone else has to work hard for little pay.
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Thank you for the input. I realize that Zurich is neither inexpensive nor easy (I've looked into it), but the $20,000+ it would cost for one is small compared to $80-$100,000+ every YEAR if I end up in a NH or ALF (X2 if we both do). Who except the extremely wealthy can afford that for long? I would also consider VSED as a possible option as long as I remain "competent" and could find the necessary medical support. MAiD is legal in our state, but there are SO many restrictions, including that the requester must be expected to die within 6 months.

I will speak solely for myself here, although my spouse shares most, if not quite all, of my views. I have already made as clear as I possibly can, in writing, that I do not want any "heroic measures" taken to keep me alive should I acquire a life-destroying illness or disability--no CPR, no feeding tubes, no ventilators, no pacemakers, no surgery. Being tethered to machines in an ICU is absolutely not my idea of a peaceful death. I have no desire for continued existence if I can no longer care for my own basic personal needs. Comfort care--period. I can only hope that my wishes will be followed.

While I may be envious of 100 Y/Os who are still high functioning, I fear that I will not be one of them. I am already experiencing significant chronic pain and encroaching physical limitations. I am still able to grocery shop, do the laundry, care for our 13 Y/O cat and keep up our home (with twice-monthly housecleaning and other occasional help) but for how long? I worry about what-ifs a lot, although I know that worrying won't help. I checked out several local "facilities" some years ago. I wasn't at all impressed but, before becoming a burden on my family, I would seriously consider that option and hope my funds would last as long as I did.
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RedVanAnnie May 28, 2023
Lots of things to worry about regarding our own future care, aren't there?! Many times something happens that we never expected ahead of time. I'm many of us on this forum share your concerns. It would be wonderful if pay and working conditions for Health Care workers improved enough to attract more skillfull, caring people to that work.
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I think in all group homes and facilities they are experiencing high turn over of staffing. I see it in my job as a case manager for people with intellectual disabilities and even at my mothers assisted living facility. It is concerning although it’s across the board but there isn’t much to do :(
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As a retired clinical nutrition staff employee…yes high turnover was common for the 30 yrs I worked in NH, AL and dementia units. Pay is low and now fast food pay has increased to equal to or exceeds a cna entry pay. A person has to see the CNA job as a career vs a job…trust me very few see it that way. Most facilities are using agency staff and they change facilities frequently. In my opinion this is a bad thing…my moms AL unit has a “career” cna but when she is off staff changes constantly. On her days off moms care is not as good…adequate but not great.
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If caregivers got better pay, I wonder what the facility would charge for care?

Sorry to see that our older, many unhealthy people are care burdens on society. It would be easier to see euthanasia like it is for dogs to eliminate suffering. Unfortunately, it is against the law for that option.

I wonder what it will be like living in a care facility for myself someday. I am looking for a CCRC where I can age in place and hope to be independent as long as possible. Both my parents lived into their nineties.
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mommynightmare May 28, 2023
Yes I agree w you. Its all about the $$$$$. Trying to squeeze every drop out they can...its disgusting & sad actually.
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Its funny how you would not burden your children...Im a nursing assistant & its hard hard work. Its alot for $12-15 an hour when we have to take care of you physically & many times emotionally. Many times Im not appreciated or thanked for my care & its very strange how the patients dont disrespect the doctors or nurses but love to cross lines with the very people that care for them. Thats why the high turn over. You both seem to have a good head on your shoulders Just never forget to respect to be respected...
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I have seen low pay, not enough staff so the workload is unbearable, and stupid decisions by the management in the nursing homes I have visited where my family has been in residence so unfortunately it does seem normal. We need a sea change in this country in how we treat our elderly and handicapped,
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betskand May 28, 2023
You can say that again. You don't need to, though -- almost everyone I know -- either old or younger-and-taking-care -- is saying exactly the same thing. The elder-care situation in this country is a huge mess. I read in the Washington Post recently that a significant number of elderly people, many with dementia, are ending up living on the streets.
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It can be normal at times for their to be a high staff turnover in some places more than others . Sometimes carers dislike Management etc , pay rate , bullying & not given enough shifts at one facility etc . I myself only have one job , but a lot of people of different nationalities have several jobs in the same sector for all different companies & sometimes work excessive amount of hrs , putting other staff & residents at risk . Try not to be overly concerned to which I know is hard , if you have concerns speak to management to ensure he is getting the same care staff on a daily basis, within reason . To assist with your concerns . As care staff form a relationship with their residents if their attending to him daily & this will also help him as much as you . Nothing hurts to ensure the best care is provided .
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Yes high turnover is the norm. The work is incredible hard. It requires clinical accuracy, satisfying the patient, and their family, and the management pressures staff to be faster and do more with less. More than 90% AL's are corporations, mostly run by people who have little to no healthcare experience nor education.
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Yes, high staff turnover in care facilities is the norm.
There are many varied reasons for this. Also,staffing shortage results and is often the norm.
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Sarah3 May 28, 2023
Let’s be real, as this has been addressed here a time or 10 before, the primary reason for high turnover in these places if the staff who interacts with the seniors are vastly underpaid ( and under appreciated). Most of the cost a resident or their family pays for them to live there is definitely not going to the caregivers and aids on staff
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We were running into the same issue and came to find out the place she was in was using agency staff only. They had also changed management 3 times in less than 2 years. We moved her out of state and to a place that has been under the same management for its 11 year existence. They also hire their own staff. Most staff members have been there for over 3 years. It’s an amazing staff, they all know everybody in the place by name. I very rarely see a new face (on occasion they need to bring in agency staff due to vacations etc.). Do some investigating as to what type of staff your facility uses.
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No . That ms not normal at all. Something is going on. Rather it’s the training, ppl they’re hiring, pay, it’s something negative going on snd it’s not good for the ppl staying there. They have to feel safe and secure by seeing the same ppl u become a family. Like at my job it’s like that it’s in health it’s bc they’re young going back to college, moving, tired of health care, pay is low snd over worked. It’s time to get a better place for ur parent. It’s too much of a revolving door.
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The staff turnover is a great concern for my Dad’s ALF also. And each time there are new staff, we the family have to make sure they know dads individual needs (how to use the lift chair, make sure he is taken to the bathroom at least enough not to sit in a wet depends, make sure he is encouraged to leave the room to eat, how to encourage him to let them shower him). Just as a caregiver seems to be familiar with him, they leave. And the facility is understaffed for the 48 residents they have. And he is in one of the nicer ones. The dilemma is if they pay more to the workers, Which they should, they would have to raise rates and so many already can’t afford an ALF even though they need it. Dad only affords it due to his veterans benefits of disability (if your loved one is a vet, check this out with the VA)
I think our country needs to worry less about other countries and sending money around the world and help finance the ALFs so they can pay staff more. Pay the ones directly working with the residents not just the managers.
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Isthisrealyreal May 28, 2023
No, they wouldn't have to raise rates, they would have to give up some of their astronomical profits and that is why they pay crap wages.
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Its normal, and will get much worse as the population ages and caregivers become even more in demand.
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Isthisrealyreal May 28, 2023
I, foresee, the younger generation, the one that calls their elders boomers to their faces, will device a plan to effectively deal with the problem.

Nobody wants to deal with mean, abusive adults that cannot care for their own hygiene at any wage, but, especially not bottom dollar, they are demeaned and degraded until it is no longer safe for the caregivers to have a hand in caring for these vulnerable populations because they are resentful towards them. This is why we see the number of people willing to work these jobs on a downward trajectory. The only way to change that, pay the ones doing the boots on the ground work, being treated demeaningly, degradingly and oft abused, enough money to make it worth it to put up with it all. It shows we respect and appreciate them, which helps heal the other unavoidable portions of dealing with demented elders and just mean people.

We should all pray for this solution because the alternative is very him indeed.
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There is high turnover in all areas of healthcare. There is a huge shortage of healthcare workers. The people who do stay and continue to work are pressured to work harder than ever due to the shortage. Good workers are getting burned out. This is likely to continue.
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pamzimmrrt May 29, 2023
Lisa this is sooo true! I am getting ready to retire from one of the biggest/best hospitals in the country.. and every time I think "maybe not yet" I go to work,,, LOL and think "yep, its time" I have been with the same hospital for 26 years and boy have things changed!
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Just read the whole thread on caregiver turnover. Any suggestions on how to get the best care from the staff while they are there? tipping???
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TouchMatters May 28, 2023
Discuss your caregiver/staff needs with administrator.
-Put in writing.
-Follow-up and keep a journal of calls/interactions (date, time, person you spoke to, what transpired).

In addition to addressing needs with administrator, it can only help to develop personal positive connections/relationships (at / on-site, not off site) with line staff. As you show interest and appreciation for them / their work, they will be aware and want to give 'better' service/attention to your loved one.

-I would not tip w/$ although a gift card now and then is appreciated. I did this at the end of the year although do anytime. Even $20 gift card is appreciated. THEY DO WORK HARD and most have to do this work due to English as a second language and no other skill sets. Some are excellent and care; some do not want to do this work, are not trained (well) and do not care.
Yes. The turnover is huge and not only line staff (CNAs, Aides - it is also management, nurses, etc.). I believe there is a shortage everywhere in many industries, not just elder care / nursing homes.
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Thanks to all for the insightful comments. My great aunt was on a ventilator but still cognizant. Her son walked in as she removed the tube (she was a retired nurse) and had it put back in and restraints put on her. She never opened her eyes again when he was there. She knew when I was there, and was responsive with hand squeezes and gestures. I guess the lesson is for all of us to make sure our nearest and earest KNOW our wishes and will carry them out for us.
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ConnieCaretaker May 28, 2023
Are you saying your great aunt wanted to end her life? (If so, options could have included Palliative, Hospice or Death with Dignity?). Also, are you advocating for us all to get our affairs in order with lawyers who can document our "end of life" wishes?

Not sure I understand why she would not open her eyes again when her son visited.
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Would you be happy to work in that environment? I believe the present administration is looking for care workers and slaughter house employees amongst all the illiterate border crossers. Many visitors/relatives can't even bare to visit.
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northernlitez May 28, 2023
I truly hope you are not a caretaker
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The United States - and in particular members of certain political parties - doesn’t feel that health care is important whether that means for children, young mothers, healthy adults, or the elderly. It is evident not just in how we treat our elderly but in how we treat everyone. My mother’s side of the family is European (France and Netherlands) and they don’t have these problems with high costs, low levels of care, and staff turnover because most of the facilities are state run and not for profit.

Doctors visit people at their homes, caregivers are provided for free, and when the time come you are eligible to move to a government owned apartment complex with other seniors that we would call assisted living - all free of charge. The people who work there are employees of the state, are paid well, and have good benefits.

My relatives are always shocked when I tell them that here you pay $6000-10000 per month and what you get for that money. They say “I thought America is the wealthiest country!”

The only solution to this problem is to eliminate private insurers and offer a lot more public senior care facilities. This country’s emphasis on letting private corporations manage our healthcare for profit is killing us all.
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lisatrevor May 28, 2023
That's not the solution at all! In some western Europe countries they do in fact have major issues related to healthcare that we do not have in America. The wait times for appointments and procedures is often months, as your relatives who live there will verify, and the care can be substandard, even dangerous, depending on the country. It's true these countries contain their costs very well for the citizens but this is the result of the culture, of long history and homogeneity of people, as a whole agreeing and paying for it. America has a totally different history and culture and this could not be done, at least for the foreseeable future. Look at the Affordable Care Act. How has that worked out?What the solution is: To privatize everything and get rid of all the unnecessary regulations, many of which appear to favor special interests. This will allow private companies to compete to provide the best care at the lowest prices. In this way the culture of, or should I say brainwashing of, insurance will disappear as people realize that the best way to handle health care costs is like any costs - pay it yourself! My doctors love the fact that I am "self-pay" and I always get a discount.
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Caregivers—staff— are very underpaid for the work they do. Calming a dementia patient who yells or cries incessantly, toileting a patient, cleaning up an incontinent patient, feeding them, cleaning them and changing their clothes, answering call lights—all take time and energy. Top all this off with 12 hour shifts, understaffing and low pay, and it’s no wonder people won’t stay. Medicare has nursing home ratings. A four or five star rating for resident care reflects good care by staff, which means stable staffing. I got my brother into a five star resident care nursing facility and they were excellent. The same staff cared for him for eleven months. Unfortunately Medicare doesn’t rate assisted living since they don’t pay them. But it’s still possible to find ratings for ALF online. An elder law attorney might provide suggestions in a quick, free consultation. Our elder law attorney recommended one that was excellent for the short time he was there.
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horticulturist May 29, 2023
I would caution folks to be skeptical of online reviews. The facility my mother resides in gets 5 stars online (from a few reviews) and I can tell you for a fact it is far from 5 stars. It suffers from the same problems iterated by the original poster. Go yourself, try to talk to a another family member you may meet, and to staff (if they will talk to you).
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High turnover with all the managers as well.
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Unfortunately, it seems to be. I have found in my eleven years with my mom in AL/MC and the two years of my sister being in AL/MC, that turnover is directly related to how well the employees are treated by the company they work for. I have even suggested that people looking for the right ALF for their family member should find the smoking area and talk to the employees out of sight from management. If the employees feel respected and well-treated, they stay. Happy employees = happy residents. Happy employees are more engaged with the individual residents and their families. Always ask about the turnover rate.
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Lizhappens May 29, 2023
Happy employees better working employees yes
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I absolutely concur that front line care work should be paid very well and come with good benefits, along with respect, which is certainly not the case currently. I agree that low pay, coupled with often-unpleasant working conditions, probably largely explain high staff turnover although, as others have noted, a wide variety of industries are experiencing staffing shortages.

I understand that many elder care facilities across the nation are being bought out by private equity companies, whose ONLY interest is return on investment. These companies have eviscerated local news organizations and are moving on to healthcare as their next cash cow. That does not bode well for any moderate-income older adult who may need care. Affordable care isn't a problem for the wealthy or for the low-income (Medicaid eligible), but there is a HUGE unaddressed cohort in the middle. Many moderate-income retirees did their best to prepare for their "golden years", but the ground has shifted.

The cost of even subpar NH or ALF care is often out of reach for all but the relatively wealthy if it is needed for more than a year or two. Long term care insurance can help, although ours recently notified us of changes that are decidedly not in our favor. Many of today's older adults (me included) have lived longer than we intended or wanted to. That, coupled with inflation/the high cost of living and the current labor market, has created a "perfect storm" for remnants of The Silent Generation and the coming influx of boomers. I don't have the answer--wish I did!
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Lizhappens May 29, 2023
you’re so right. It’s so scary to think of the future in these terms seeing what we see now. Some thing we try not to think about and you pray for a healthy life and then die overnight.
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Prior to Covid, the industry had a 135% turnover rate in employees. This turnover rate is for employees at all levels. This is one of the highest turnover rates in any industry. Since Covid, the turnover rate is significantly higher. The industry is challenged by both high labor costs and high capital expenses. They must balance the needs of the patients with the needs of their employees, operating expenses and regulatory compliance. For example, if the staffing ratio in a memory care unit is five patients per caregiver and they have two empty beds, they are not receiving revenue for two empty beds, but they are paying the wages for five full beds. The margins in the industry are especially low compared to other industries. The companies do not have much wiggle room for wage increases. Any increase in wages is passed on to the patient.

Caring for people with disabilities and handicaps is both physically and emotionally taxing. It takes a very special person with a very high level of selflessness to care for others day-in and day-out for years. Even if the wages are high, staffing would still be a challenge. Letting the staff know you appreciate the care they are giving your LO is one of the best things you can do to help your own family member. We all need acknowledgment for our efforts on a regular basis. Show the staff how much you care for them and they in turn will give your LO better care.
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