My husband and I are in our late 20s/early 30s and have been married just over a year. We currently live in St. Louis, MO where my husband is in his 3rd year of medical residency. My 86 year old grandma lives in Hot Springs, AR where she has been for at least 20 years. Recently, she has started pressuring us to let her live with us.
For some context, my grandpa passed away over a decade ago. My mom died from cancer almost 6 years ago, and she was my grandma's only child. The reason my grandma has remained in Hot Springs so long is because she has a sister and a niece (in her 50s) living nearby.
Physically, my grandma has been pretty healthy her whole life and able to live independently. She does have trouble driving at night or long distances. She recently has had some weakness from artery blockages, but my husband spoke with her doctors, and she got a stent and has been doing okay. Her niece does freelance work, so in her free time she has helped my grandma with housework/yard work/ grocery runs (especially during Covid). She also has been taking my grandma to doctors' appointments for her stent and inviting her over for holidays.
Covid has been bad for my grandma. She's always been a very anxious person, and now she is more isolated. She lost touch with all her friends in Hot Springs and doesn't seem interested in getting reconnected or meeting new friends. Even though she has her sister and her niece, she doesn't like to reach out to them to make plans. She says she is all alone, and she wants to live with us. She wants us to break our current lease and buy a house. She would sell her house to pay the downpayment on this new house.
I've told her we would be open to her living with us in 2-3 years when my husband is done with residency, and we are more financially established. She doesn't like that answer because it isn't soon enough. I'm not sure I like that answer either because I'm nervous about living with her at all. We are newlyweds and hoping to start a family in the next couple years. I love her but am concerned what having her around all the time would mean for our ability to live as we please. She can be particular and is very anxious (ex: she gets nervous every time I go for a run by myself or go anywhere by myself). I'm wondering what it would be like to have my grandma there all the time while also starting our own family.
I've offered other options (she come visit us, she come buy an apartment near to us), but she is not interested in any of them. She just wants to buy a house for us and move in with us. And she wants to do it now.
Anyone have any advice how to handle this situation? Or positive experiences of their older relatives living with them? I feel like I'm the one responsible for my grandma's care since my mom died, but I also feel anxious every time she brings this up.
She had her life. She could see this coming 20 years ago. If she needs companionship, ALs are definitely an option versus this dependence on you, just you, which may fray relations with DH.
If she is unhappy with that, (and has told you how that is inadequate), she will be complaining about you if you live together.
The relatively few posters with positive experiences, stress that their elder is pleasant, as independent as possible, lets the poster be ‘in charge’ of the household, doesn’t expect to be waited on, doesn’t expect to be entertained or to spend a great deal of time together with the married couple. The elder also has the funds to pay for caregivers who will give everyone else in the household a fair bit of private time, and who in time will do a lot of the heavy lifting, bathing, incontinence management etc.
If this become a burden for your great-aunt and aunt, perhaps discuss with them taking her on a tour of ALs, where she could enjoy her remaining good health. And she would NOT be ‘all alone’ there.
If you are anxious just thinking about the possibility of her moving in with you, can you just imagine how your anxiety will sky rocket if she actually does?
Please, your grandma has had her life, now it's time for you to have yours, without her living with you. You are a newlywed for pete's sake! And your husband is in medical school! You have enough going on with just that. You certainly don't need to heap on more. That's really not fair to you or your husband.
So tell grandma that if she wants to move to the city you're in and move in an assisted living facility, where she will be around other folks her age, and have more opportunities to get involved in things, that you certainly welcome that, but that you're just not ready to change things in your life.
And if that's not ok with her, then she can just stay where she's at and continue to complain.
I would tell her that you have no intention of buying a house right now and you guys haven't decided where you will be settling when hubby finishes his training. Is he willing to be the bad guy? Often my husband and I will say, throw me under the bus. That way we can maintain a semblance of relationship with our loved ones, we aren't around each others family for their opinion to matter.
No. It is a complete sentence. It is okay to tell her No.
She is using a technic known as F.O.G. fear, obligation and guilt to get her way. It's manipulative and it's not okay.
You are right to be concerned, she is showing you, with her my way, right now, what you are going to be dealing with up close and personal daily. The resentment would be huge and way more difficult to deal with then telling her no and standing firm.
I would encourage her to stay where she is and get help or sell the house and move into senior housing or AL, right where she lives.
The more definite you are the sooner she will get that you are never going to go along with her plan. She is trying to trap you and don't think for one second that granny would never do that, she's had 83 years to learn how to get what she wants.
Prepare yourself for the anger, tears, self-pity and every other manipulation tactic. Don't buy into it and keep saying no.
Great big hug for strength.
When I married my 2nd husband in 2009 and my parents flew out to attend the wedding, my anxiety ridden mother was so busy reminding me to lock my front door that she forgot to say goodbye and congratulate me on her way out.
My whole life was spent hearing lectures about locking doors and keeping windows closed in the heat of summer to prevent murderers from killing me while I slept.
Life is short. Please enjoy it with your new husband and have children when you're ready to instead of allowing a nervous elder to usurp it and force you to look over your shoulder from now on. Plus you'll have NO privacy because every sound you make she'll think is an axe murderer breaking into the house to kill you all.
Sorry grandma, your plan just doesn't work for us at this time in our lives. Perhaps in 5 years we can discuss it again.
"No" is where you start, then you progress to "so let's look at other options." It's time to look at assisted living communities where she can make friends by being put together with people her own age and with similar interests. You and she are not peers and living with her will not make either of you happy.
If she wants to move to the same city as you and live in assisted living - then fine. But if she moves in with you, not only you but BOTH of you will no longer be just a couple - you will be a couple plus 1. ALL THE TIME. YOU will no longer have a life...YOU will be taking care of ALL her needs 24/7. YOU will be her companion/caregiver. YOU will be dealing with her health issues and problems. YOU will be fixing her meals and cleaning and doing her laundry. YOU will be bringing her to the many medical appointments. YOU will be listening to her and talking with her and entertaining her. This is what AL is for.
If she is unable to afford such, then she will have to remain where she is. She already has family there, and certainly SOME connections. If she moves, all she will have is YOU. Do not let her buy a house for "all of us" nor get her own place - you will be over there constantly and helping her ALL the time. Forget about starting a family with her living you - especially as she gets older and more infirm, she will be a full time responsibility.
I understand wanting to 'help' 'family', but she made her own decisions decades ago, and this is part of the consequences for her. Inflexibility now because concrete stubborness in another few years.
As an only child of a single parent, it became my 'responsibility and obligation' to take care of my mother as she aged. She was self-centered, narcisstic, entitled, and the world always revolved around her. Nothing I did could or did ever make her happy - and trust me, I was at her call 24/7 (she lived a mere 20 minutes away from me). She didn't make friends easy and most of hers passed away by the time she was 88/89, didn't want to 'impose' on her neighbors, didn't know how to handle household emergencies, had me listed as her only emergency contact for everything. Let's just say after cancelling I don't know how many vacations, getting countless holidays ruined, dreading having the phone ring because I knew that when it did it was ALWAYS some sort of problem I needed 'fix'., I was so mentally exhausted. Yes, she was my mother and that is why I endured it but I lost so many years of my life...and now, at nearly 70 yo myself, my medical conditions are putting the brakes on the places and vacations I wanted to go and do, there are so many years of missing holidays that I can't look back on, so many missed birthdays and anniversaries that I can never get back.....She passed away at 95 this year, and the last 4 months of her life - MY entire 24/7 was about her - to the point where I, myself, became ill and am now paying the price. Let's just say towards the end the word 'love' was not part of how I felt - resentment, anger, frustration, and finally relief when she passed. I did the responsibility and obligation because she was my mother - but it wasn't done out of love.
If she doesn't respect your decision (which, btw is being made for not only your best interests but hers as well), since such a living environment will have you feeling feelings you didn't think you would - resentment is mild, anger is always simmering, frustration constant and feelings of neverending hopelessness will be on the horizon. These are not what you want as part of starting a new life as a newlywed. Have her stay where she is and SHE can figure out how to enlist her remaining family members to help her where she is.
Tell her NO. It is not a good time.
She can do well where she is. She knows the area, has friends and can get around easily. There is a sister and a niece that can help her if needed.
Tell her if she wants to move close to you she can look for Assisted Living or Independent Living near you. Or she can look for a Condo, Townhouse near by.
What do YOU want?
That's what matters. Not what someone else wants.
Consider your wants. Your marriage. Everything else is less than tertiary.
Read a bit more; Get her to a geriatric psychiatrist.
Her driving, most elderly find they can no longer drive at night and they aren't comfortable driving distances. I am 72 and I don't like nighttime driving and getting where I really don't enjoy it anymore.
The problem with her putting money down on a house for you is Medicaid that she may need in the 5 yr look back. That down payment will be considered a gift because u profit if the house is ever sold. There will be penalties meaning that someone cares for her during the penalty period or they pay for her care. Thats at least 10k a month. Your grandmother has had six years to figure out what she is going to do with her life since her only child is gone. You do not ask a grandchild in her 20s and just married to take care of you. You are starting a new life. You will have enough decisions to make in the coming years together. You are entitled to have a family and a home of your own without an 86 yr old grandmother in the mix. Her leaving what is familiar to her and moving even near you is not a good thing. You WILL become her everything because its hard to make new friends at 86 yrs old. She seems to be passive-aggressive and by saying something every time you talk and sort of bullying she thinks you will give in. Please do not give in! Your marriage is #1. It may not survive if you do this. There are marriages a lot longer than this that barely survive. I had a MIL that thought she could talk my DH into moving from NJ to FLa. He had lived with her the longest. After he retired it got worse. He never said no, he never said maybe, he said nothing. It was me who told her it will never happen. My Mom was a Widow and eventually had to stop driving. I was the only child near and I oversaw a disabled nephew. My Mom had her friends and her Church. I told her because of my responsibilities, I would not move. Her response "bring Mom with you". I said no I would not take her away from her life. MILs response to that "we all have to compromise". All but my MIL. Her was or no way, she was passive-aggressive.
Go with your gut that ur just not ready to commit to this. Next time she calls and brings it up, be firm and say "Grandmom, sorry but this is the last time I will say it, my answer is NO. Please, don't ask again" I would not have her visit either, you may not be able to get rid of her.
"No" is a one word sentence.
By saying "No" you are not responsible for the reaction you get from the other person.
A solid NO, this won't work out for all concerned is enough.
The focus needs to be on grandma's fears.
Helping her find a real estate agent or senior housing is being really really supportive and helpful although grand ma ma will not be happy to hear this, yet. She is focused on the self-absorbed "me me me's" -
Absolutely: granddaughter is NOT responsible for how another person feels or their reaction. This is there responsibility although if dementia involved (and fears), kindness and compassion are needed, with boundaries and clarity.
A more advanced option would be to place your two front teeth against your lower lip and make the "F" sound. Then add another three letters I won't mention; then follow the above instructions for "N" and "O".
Suggest kindly that Grandma see her Doctor about her anxiety & for referral to aged care services to help with senior housing?
She may be getting overwhelmed but with the right help, she can make decisions that will suit her.
Landing on your doorstep like a sparrow will not a achieve that. Will grow resentment in you & your DH instead.
Take her wanting to live with you as the compliment it is: that she trusts you. She trusts you to help & possible save her. Sadly, no-one can stop old age but you CAN help her in other ways besides co-living.
Be her champion to cheer her on to look for the right direction for the next phase of her golden years.
Hard conversations these may be - but worth it to have real relationships. All the best.
Has this always been her way of dealing with life, or is this a change in her thinking patterns?
When my mom was about this age, she stopped being able to think flexibility; she panicked at the least little thing and couldn't tolerate being alone. We found out many months later that she'd had a stroke which resulted in impaired executive functioning and loss of reasoning ability.
I really meant it earlier when I said to get her to a Geriatric Psychiatrist. During the last 6 years of my mom's life, they were the folks who gave us the best advice and recommended the right levels of meds for mom's anxiety and depression.
It also sounds like an good Independent or Assisted Living place would do wonders for grandma. Gently tell her that living WITH you is off the table but living nearby would be wonderful.
If she turns that down, that's HER choice.
I suspect the time will come when there is an emergency and you'll all need to put your heads together to figure out where to place her. Start looking now.
What is your grandmother's financial situation? And what do your aunt and niece think of your grandmother's plan to move in with you? Are they tired of doing her bidding? Do you think they are encouraging her?
It would be a good idea to talk to your aunt, firstly to make it clear that you are NOT the solution, this isn’t going to happen, and secondly to see if you can encourage her about the option of AL near them. One thing to remember and stress is that it is common for people (eg your husband) to move to a different job in a different place once they have qualified. Grandmother’s house for you all doesn’t work if you want to move. You can’t tie yourselves down like that. It's a good reason to say no.
I read your post again, and particularly ‘She can be particular and is very anxious’ eg about you going for a run by yourself. Both those things are not compatible with the list of ‘positive experiences’. You need to own your own house and be in charge yourselves.
This sounds like the beginings of depression, MCI, or dementia to me:
''She's always been a very anxious person, and now she is more isolated. She lost touch with all her friends in Hot Springs and doesn't seem interested in getting reconnected or meeting new friends. Even though she has her sister and her niece, she doesn't like to reach out to them to make plans''
The first thing we noticed with my mom wasn't quite so much her memory, although that happened soon enough, but it was that she stopped calling us. ''Apathy is the term used when a person with Alzheimer disease experiences the loss of drive or the inability to use initiative. The part of the brain that controls initiation of activity or communication is damaged. People who have this, need to rely on other people cueing them in order to be involved in conversation or in activities.''
If she has plenty of money to pay for cost of care for the rest of her days - you might want to do this. If you can see that her savings won't go last, you have to decide if you're willing to be the 24/7 caregiver if it comes down to that.
It certainly does sound like emotional blackmail that the grandmother is willing to buy them this big house. It has been mentioned on this thread and rightly so.
Grandma is very likely thinking that she'll never have to pay for nursing care or aide homecare because she has a doctor living with her.
I hope these people do not move her in.
So, with you all only in your 20's, your grandma could easily make it another 20 years.... is that the kind of life you want, starting and raising a family, while being a 100% caregiver to your grandmother. It is definitely something I would NOT have done when I was younger, and am very ready to call it quits now and see about assisted living.
You said what your husband is doing. But what are you doing? Are you working, or wanting to be a stay at home mom and care for the children you want to have. I did that for yours and loved it, but I never would have or could have taken care of an elder relative in addition to our children.
My best advice to you is to find an assisted living facility (near by if you would like to visit with "limited visits", because your children when you have them will be the priority). Just make sure you and your husband are on the same page.
Have you had discussions with her sister and Hot Springs friends? Could grandma and her sister be housemates? Is your grandmother willing/able to hear your concerns? At 86 she may not feel she has 'time' to wait on your husband's career evolution, etc.; tell her there needs to be a 'middle way' that takes everyone's needs into consideration. If she is so dependent she becomes anxious when you take off to exercise imagine when you need to attend to a child; you will be torn in so many directions, out of your good heart to 'be there' for her, that the situation would backfire on everyone.
What does your husband say? Hint: it would be really helpful if he could be persuaded to put his foot down and say he won't hear of it.
I know you love your grandmother and want her to be happy, but here is what WILL happen if you accept money from her and she moves in.
You will become grandma's new best friend. You will be responsible for all of her socialization needs because after 20 years out of your area, she has nobody there anymore. She will be the third wheel to you and your husband 24 hours a day. The two of you will never get a moment of privacy. You will not even be able to leave the house without
A) Taking her with you.
Or
B) Asking her permission and providing a detailed itinerary of exactly where you're going, who you're going to see, and how long you will be gone.
This will be your life. When she starts losing independence that's a whole other story. She will have a live-in physician (your husband) who she will expect to diagnose, treat, and cure ever ache or pain she ever has. She will expect you to become a nanny-slave to her as well. Why? Because you and your husband accepted her money to buy a house. Elderly people often assume when they give a family member money, that family member becomes their old-age care plan until they die.
Now add dementia. Maybe your grandma doesn't have it now, but at 86 it's not unusual. You indicate that she's in pretty good health. So you could be looking forward to a decade or longer of being a nanny-slave.
Please, for your own sake as well as your husband's do not let her move in. Caregiving can end a marriage too. Please don't take her in.
The problem with even having her move up to STL --even if not with you--is that you guys will STILL be expected to fill the role that Niece does. Even if she goes into an AL near you, you will be expected to be available every day. Your husband after he finishes residency and fellowship could well find his dream job in KCMO, or Chicago, or further out--with the expectation that you will move her because after all, she came to stay closer to you.
Also, if she does not have a will, a POA for finance and a POA for decision making for health care those need to get done first and soon,
My guess (based on work with elders and families) is that some mild medication might help with her anxiety and an assisted living near where she is NOW might be the right fit.
She won't have to change doctors or dentists will be near sister and niece, and can have transportation and socialization and meal opportunities to help her make new friends and stay busy.
Good luck.
Pause at every scene not located in the hospital.
Then, imagine grandmother there in each scene.
Handsome newlywed doc comes home and wants some private romantic time with his wife. She meets him, wearing his favorite outfit. You know what comes next. But, NOPE! Grandma is there.
Beautiful Newlywed wife gets home from work. Hubby surprises her with a nice dinner, bottle wine. Will their evening end the way they would be imagining it to? NOPE. Grandma is there.
Grandma probably won’t retire to her room. That’s NOT happening.
You can imagine the rest of the scenes yourself. Grandma will be joining you for ALL of them.
This will be your life if she moves in.