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Doctor decided to send mom with dementia to nursing home without conferring with me! I am her POA financially and medically. She signed the paperwork, which she is incapable of comprehending and it is one of the most expensive facilities in the area! Can I take the police with me to have her removed? Her medical notes state that it is not safe for her to be at home (no one has been to my home to check for safety) and that my mom has said that I am verbally abusive, which is not true. Sometimes she makes things up like telling everyone that the bruise on her leg was from my dog mauling her... also not true. I have been working on a plan to place her in a facility but I need to get her house ready for sale to help pay for the facility. I quit my job 2+ years ago to take care of my mom properly and I refuse to let some Dr. that really doesn't know her place her somewhere that I hadn't had an opportunity to even evaluate! BTW I should've mentioned that she was in the hospital for several weeks and they let her be discharged and transported her directly to the nursing home, I wasnt informed about any of this nor did I even know where she had been transported to. She is in a 14 day quarantine sooooo f#%* I can't go see her face to face!

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No doctor can 'order' an elder to be permanently placed in a nursing home. What likely happened here is that your mother was sent to a nursing home for REHAB for 20 days to recover her strength after her hospitalization. Medicare foots that bill, under normal circumstances, which you can also verify quite easily by calling the number on the back of mom's Medicare card.

The prudent thing for you to do is to calm down and get the facts straight before you 'call the police' or do anything to take your mother out of the nursing home she was likely sent to for REHAB purposes. Call the doctor and get the facts before you continue flipping out. That's my suggestion.

Btw, how is it you're so involved with your mother's care that she was released from the hospital, transported to some nursing home you are unaware of, and all of this happened w/o your knowledge??? Had you been there for her discharge, all of this would have been explained to you and you'd have had a say as to which nursing home/SNF she was sent to for rehab as well!!!
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poodledoodle Mar 2022
1 reason OP might not have been able to be there at discharge, is because the mother (falsely) accused OP of abuse. In that case, while under investigation, they might have prevented OP from visiting at the hospital.

I hope OP it all gets solved very soon, for your mother and you.
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I imagine that your mother is the subject of the local equivalent of a Safeguarding Application (there may have been an Emergency Guardianship application, too) and is being looked after in the Nursing Home until her living situation has been fully evaluated and APS has got its... paperwork together.

It is the duty of a social worker (or any other mandated reporter e.g. doctor) whose client tells her that her family beats her up and sets the dog on her not to send that client back to the family until it is established that these statements are false. Turn it round, and imagine - what would we say to a doctor or social worker who patted the little old lady on the head and said "there there, dear, I'm sure they all love you very much."

Are you in touch with the hospital social worker or APS? Work with them. This too will pass.
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I agree with others but especially Countrymouse.

Did you at time if admission tell the admitting nurse that you were Moms POA? Did you hand her a copy of ur POA and maybe a formal diagnosis from her PCP or Neurologist? Was your contact # in their system? When my Mom was in the hospital, I was called concerning which Rehab I preferred. I was called when they were ready to discharge.

A doctor can say in writing that a person needs 24/7 care but as said, I have never heard a doctor having the power to place anyone. Actually, even though I wasn't told this by discharge, but you don't have to go to rehab. I really don't know why, when there is family and she lives with you why u weren't called.

Hopefully this is rehab so Medicare pays the first 20 days 100%. But something does not seem right and you need to find out what that is. If APS was notified I would think by now you would have been. Their investigation is not one sided. I so hope they would not take the statements of a person suffering from a Dementia to heart. I agree, call the SW at the hospital and find out what is going on. If she won't give you any info call your State Ombudsman if that does work, then a lawyer.

Please update us. We learn from others.
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Ductlady61 Mar 2022
I have a lawyer on retainer. They had my POA on file since I followed the ambulance to the hospital
She also told them she is scared because sometimes I leave for the whole weekend lol totally not true. I have had visiting angels come in for 4 to 7 hours if I had to do errands or when my sister passed in January so I could do funeral arrangements. My mom is a large woman ( not obese but a strong sturdy German (6'1") so if I take her to the doctors I have visiting angels come help and they also bathe her twice a week. She is moving to the facility I originally had planned for her on Friday
I got copies of the paperwork she signed at discharge and the paperwork she signed for her admittance into the NH. I'm still shocked that this happened
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Just checked your profile and realized that there appears to be a major inconsistency:

You wrote:

"I am caring for my boyfriends mother. Im very active but have had to slow some due to RA. Nancy has severe anxiety and nerve damage from being under anthsesia too long during surgery. Nancy also suffers from dementia although she still knows who we are she has small lapses in memory, what year it is and asks when her deceased husband will be home. I have zero medical experience so any help you can give me would be awesome"

"I quit my job 2+ years ago to take care of my mom properly..."

So, when you referred to "mom", and wrote that, were you referring to YOUR mother, or your BF's mother?
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Katefalc Apr 2022
Yup.. sounds “ fishy”
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I agree with GardenArtist that this is all very confusing. Is this the Mom of you BF or is this YOUR Mom?
Has your Mom been being cared for in your home? How long has your POA to act for her been in effect? Does your Mom have dementia? Is the doctor your Mom saw aware of her diagnosis of Dementia?
In order for your Mom's doctor to place her in a facility, no matter WHAT it costs, then someone has a temporary guardianship. No one can simply override your POA just like that and send your Mother to a Nursing home without investigation by APS.
There is something missing here.
This doesn't make any sense.
Can you fill us in completely about who the current guardian of your Mom is and whether the State has assumed temporary guardianship?
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Ductlady61 Mar 2022
Mom is still under my guardianship. POA has been in affect for 2 years and yes they were aware of her dementia. The POA paperwork was/is on file and is mentioned in her medical notes from her stay. There has been no one to investigate any allegations no follow up at all. I'm calmer now but still not happy with the fiasco this has become. Someone screwed up and handled things very poorly....my lawyer will handle it from here which is one thing I'm more than happy to get off my plate!
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Here's what I've realized...you may have a POA, but oftentimes the hospital requires you fill out their paperwork, along with giving them the POA. Just saying you have one is not enough. Sounds like in this case, that's probably what happened. There was no POA on file in their pile of paperwork.

There is usually a social worker that handles the paperwork to move a person from a hospital to another facility. You should contact that person and find out what happened. They could have had Adult Protective services talk to her and made that decision if she is mentioning abuse or not wanting to live with you.

It sounds like you didn't follow their paperwork protocol. I learned that lesson. Now, any time there's a hospital stay, the first thing I ask for is all their paperwork that's required. The last stay the hospital required I fill out their POA/directive paperwork and have it witnessed. Otherwise, my POA paperwork was worthless. best of luck
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JoAnn29 Mar 2022
The hospital Mom was usually sent to had it checked in their computer that Mom had a POA and I was emergency contact. This was done at admitting. I was asked questions and info immediately placed into the computer. Anyone accessing that info would immediately see it. I provided a copy of the POA later.
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I know you're upset, but you'll need to be calm and collected to deal with this.
Make copies of your POA and distribute them freely, esp. now to the facility Mom is in. Check out the facility and don't just move Mom - that could cause more stess stress for Mom. Medicare usually pays the first 20 days. It's routine to go from a hospital to rehab; drs use that language "cannot go home...." routinely or Medicare won'tpay.

6 weeks in the hospital is long, 20 days in rehab may not be enough. The facility should reevaluate and request Medicare for further coverage, but that can be a fight. If the current facility is a SNF, they may transfer Mom to a long tem facility after 20 days. My Mom's therapists told me that for every day an elder stays in bed sick, they lose a month of ability/mobility. 6 weeks was a very long stay. I think you're in for a long haul. Don't bring Mom home too soon; it won't be good for her or you.

Get more involved now. I agree with previous posters to find out from the hospital social worker about what happened and why. Depending on those answers, you may need an attorney.

FYI, hospital systems don't share POA info, etc. with each other. Most times, they don't even share medical records or history. So, if Mom went to a new hospital, they may not even know her at all. EM transport will take the patient to the nearest hospital that is best for the current emergency health situation. Sometimes they ask your preference, but usually you have to tell them. Even then, they may advise the better trauma center.

To your upmost question: No, I wouldn't call the police, but I might consult an attorney if APS or allegations against your household have been made. As POAHC, I would request copies of all the dr notes, etc. from the hospital. Hopefully, you have a previous drs formal diagnosis of Mom's dementia. If not, now is the time to have that evaluated because our family opinions don't hold water if they're not medically documented.

Please update us so we can support you through this.
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Ductlady61 Mar 2022
Thank you so much. An attorney has been put on retainer, extra costs not expected ugh. Still haven't been able to talk to mom but I've made many copies of the POA. My friends tell me I'm on overload my younger (only sibling)sister (53)died from cancer late January mom has steadily declined and her anxiety caused long( sometimes days) of uncontrollable sobbing and screaming out. I've been working night and day on the house and sorting out the years of treasures they collected there....I will be fine I just want my mom to feel safe and know I haven't abandoned her! She's got to be scared
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Any question about elder abuse will prompt an involuntary admission to a hospital or facility. Ask for a neurologist consult and a geriatric psychiatrist consult. Ask for the local authorities to come view her living conditions and interview family or friends about her mental state. Ask the social services or case management personnel where she is to help you with placing her somewhere more affordable.
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2022
How can there be a question of abuse or an unsafe home environment when there has been no home assessment and absolutely no investigation or inquiry of any kind done?
I'd be willing to bet anything that Cashew's mother has really good insurance and they know she has property.
It's a classic case of Old Person With Dementia Needs Placement So Just Go Ahead And Do It.
That's wrong. The hospital had no reason to suspect elder abuse or an unsafe environment at home. Zero evidence to back up such a claim and no home assessment of any kind done.
All they have to go on is the nonsense of an elderly person with dementia being spiteful or trying to get attention from the hospital staff.
The hospital likely has an 'arrangement' with the expensive nursing home. This is common. A hospital or rehab will favor one nursing home over another. Money changes hands somewhere down the line. It always does.
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KateFalc, my thoughts as well.   I followed the thread for a while but saw NO explanation as to the discrepancy between her post and her profile.  So I stopped following.     This is an easy issue to explain: either she's referring to her mother or she's not.  Why not just respond to that?
 
Thanks for raising this issue again.  So many people have responded in earnest, when we may not even know the real circumstances.

Caveat:   I haven't read all the many responses after giving the OP time to respond, and don't plan to read them as they apparently address a situation which was never clarified.


For those who haven't read the profile:

"About me: I am caring for my boyfriends mother. Im very active but have had to slow some due to RA. Nancy has severe anxiety and nerve damage from being under anthsesia too long during surgery. Nancy also suffers from dementia although she still knows who we are she has small lapses in memory, what year it is and asks when her deceased husband will be home. I have zero medical experience so any help you can give me would be awesome"

and

"Caring for:  I am caring for nancy, who is 83 years old, living in my home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, anxiety, depression, incontinence, mobility problems, and urinary tract infection."

On 31 March the OP wrote, in part and in response to someone else's queries:

"My mom is 82 and still stands at 6'1' , she is actually physically very healthy , acid reflux and a hernia are her only other ailments. "

So, Mom is either suffering from dementia, etc., as described in her profile, or just acid reflex and a hernia?  

OP, the OP is apparently caring for her mother and her BF's mother as well?  Or just her mother but the profile is just FYI but has nothing to do with her mother?  OP, could you please clarify?
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It’s the duty of medical people, social workers and the court to look out for the best interest of the vulnerable person. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, or what you have done or will do. It doesn’t matter if your feelings are hurt or if your plans are ruined. Their responsibility is to the patient, not you.

It sucks to do your best yet get smacked down by folks. Folks who already have experience and knowledge and put their “better than you” faces on and judge you. Maybe once you get past this you won’t be one of those condescending jerks.

Try to remember that you and them are all trying to do what’s best for your mom.
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Cashew Mar 2022
No. legally and morally...NO. The POA is the one who makes the decisions and the medical personnel make recommendations, regardless how much "experience" they may have. Anything other than recommendations is medical kidnapping and is a crime.
Too many times it is done for kickbacks and corruption. If the last couple of years hasn't informed you of how evil and corrupt the medical establishment is, I don't know what to say.
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