Does anyone seem to find their parent is almost two people?

Carol Bradley Bursack,
Growing up as I did, surrounded by amazing people [including the ones who were dysfunctional!], yet left to "sorta grow, like Topsy", probably encouraged me to be a philosopher. Even as a small child, I could see how much stress others were operating under, and didn't want to add to their platefuls. A number of elders shared all those good old sayings--didn't much explain them, but said them; those were helpful.
Sometimes it's very hard to bring up feelings of love, after someone has stomped and broken them to bits too many times. But forgiving them so I can move on, has helped; as has setting firm limits on their access to me and my immediate family.
I still have doubts sometimes. But, here it is, more than 3.5 years since she moved in with a different sibling, and I'm just now finally finding an hour or few that has palpable relaxation--I can't remember how long it's been, since I last just took time to sit and relax, hear birds, smell flowers, read a book...every time I tried, for decades, I went through those same motions, but never Felt the Relaxation that permeates the soul.
The other day, though, doing that, it felt very deeply relaxing and soul-reviving. The last time that was experienced, was when I was between about 6 to 8 y.o., and rarely, then. That's about 6 decades too long to wait to do that again!!
I do check in to this list.
Maybe, there is something to be shared or counseled, that might help others. This list helped me heal, when there was no other source of validation and support. I still learn!
Healing is on-going, like learning.
If we stop doing that, things might fall apart!
What one can learn from other's posting here, too, might also be used as "volunteer hours", and/or, as "practice hours" for nurses's license requirements.
This, is community. Community too many are short on!
Thank goodness for the internet, which helps reestablish a sense of community, interpersonal exchanges, helping those who can't get out in person much!

Chimonger, how wise you are. As you say, the forgiveness isn't for them, it's for you. That enables you to move forward with your own life. After all that you've been through you can still say that love is the answer. Your full sentence is a gem: Love is still the answer...just for some, it needs to be from a safe distance. Thanks so much for adding your wisdom. I hope you'll continue to check in.
Carol

Yup. Have experienced Mom being "complicated" all my life.
Her family all knew it, but then, there was nothing anyone knew how to do, except help her mainstream as well as possible.

Mom managed to accomplish some amazing things, but, because of her mental and emotional issues, was unable to sustain the good things she started.
As eldest, and only of the 1st marriage, that floated me between 2 households as the oldest, but in my absence, the next child down in each household was the defacto eldest child. That could cause some complications in pecking order, not only for the younger kids, but for parents.

Mom has signs and symptoms of bipolar, narcissism, and/or D.I.D. [dissociative identity disorder--multiple personalities].
Not all the time, it goes in irregular waves. She believes she's normal.
The kids raised with her mostly full time [except when she farmed us out 1 or 2 at a time], have some of her behaviors, I think because they learned them.
She never meant to be nasty, but cannot help it.
On top of all that, she's a binge drinker, or a chronic alcoholic when she can afford it. Great stuff.
But I managed to find a way out, as a young teen...and left.
Guilt trip myself, for leaving the others to fend for themselves, yet, cannot be around them for very long either, because they do her tricks too.
After Mom managed to shatter my spirit one too many times, it's not safe for me to be anywhere near any of them, I feel. Much safer to restrict communications to what they are willing to commit to print....which is precious little...because one of their fav. games is verbal Plausible Deniability.
I can't play that.
So, at this late age, finally have determined to keep my safer distance.
It might get pretty ugly if I never show up for her final curtain.

I just no longer have enough pieces of me left, to run their gauntlets anymore.
IF they don't like that I refuse to phone or visit from far away, they will have to chew that bone without me.
She doted on all of them, and showed me her backside...sometimes literally...while telling /them/ how much she loved me [but not me], and being abusive verbally and physically while living with us.
The swath of destruction she left behind when she moved out of our place, was pretty epic; some can't be repaired. She ruined friendships with neighbors, almost got us evicted from our rented home of years, and managed to trash our house and our other property, and break apart relationships with siblings--to this day, I seriously don't think they realize what she did, fully, because they do not see her behaviors in themselves.

All we can do, is forgive our dysfunctional relatives--that's for our benefit, not theirs, because they often cannot hear it.
We forgive them so we can go forward and heal ourselves.
If any cannot manage to do that yet, then you can simply say "I wish you well." You may be saying it through gritting teeth, but saying it is as neutral as you can get. It's about the rule "Be impeccable in your word".
Then strive to embody unconditional love, the best you can. Choose to walk a higher path than your relatives have. You will feel better for it, and they can go on their merry ways without you, if it's necessary.
It's healing, and can be freeing. But it is still hard.
Kids from dysfunctional families mourn for the good parents we never had [not what we got]. We must learn to love ourselves, parent ourselves, find stand-in parents for ourselves, to fill in the gaps left vacant by our own.
Love is still the answer...just for some, it needs to be from a safe distance.

My mother has been a full blown narcissistic with extreme sociopath tendencies. I am the eldest and only daughter, I have been her target for years. She is now suffering from dementia and it's the perfect storm. She has developed an eating disorder, eating incredible amounts of food, only baths 2x a week, refuses to wash her hands after using the bathroom and is an out of control - control freak. Any and all attempts to place her in assisted living have failed. Her lying is probably the worst .. it's rare she tells the truth anymore. I have moved in with her and she uses me like a slave. Her insidious comments and gossip to anyone who will listen have me on edge and stressed out of my mind. I am making plans to relocate out of state and I told my younger brothers good luck. I deserve to be happy and enjoy my life, realizing my mother is and always has been toxic.

Becky101, your story sounds a lot like my mom's. Mine lives alone, too, but in an apartment, but she never wants to leave and she smokes and just sits around all the time. Doctors have been told about her delusions but it seems little can be done, especially since my mom is unwilling to cooperate. I try and be there for my mom and offer her help when needed, and oddly during a last fight she instigated I stepped back and she finally managed to call a cab to take her shopping. Now I'm wondering if maybe I enabled her too much? For months she said no cabs would pick her up and suddenly they do. I thought at first she may have been lying but she told me about the cab ride and had some specific weather details, etc., so I know she had to be telling the truth. In some ways I'm more confused than ever about the whole thing, but I'm happy she managed to call a cab. Means she has to think for herself a bit beyond calling me and threatening suicide if I don't get her cigarettes in the next half-hour!

10-4 on that one! I can relate 100% - almost the same issues with my 88 year old mom. I feel like I am lost and confused. Like you, no matter what I say or try, it doesn't work. I know when the dementia really sets in, that the reasoning abilities are unavailable on her end. I also know she cannot help this. The gray matter just isn't working like it used to. Her purpose in life is to live at home, alone, and smoke, and cuss, and do exactly what she thinks she wants to do when she wants to. She doesn't leave the house. She is having delusions now that some very large ladies are trying to get her. They enter the garage where Mom likes to smoke and take small items from the garage. I visit her on a weekly basis and do chores and bring her goodies and have affirmed that no items are missing. I contact her nightly via the phone to touch base with her. I have received calls on my voice mail that she is very scared of these large women. I left work at noon a couple of weeks ago after receiving her panicked message. I stayed with her visiting for a few hours, and of course, no one showed up. I took her to the doctor to review her meds since her symptoms have changed. They changed her meds and she seems sometimes be better, not mentioning 'the ladies'. I get my hopes up and think things are improving but the next day she is all freaked out again. She doesn't think she needs any meds and no matter what I say to her about them she reminds me that she isn't sick and doesn't need them. She is in very good physical health - no pain or other issues. It's hard to explain that the pills are for 'her memory', etc. Her doctor has agreed that it is best for her to stay home and do what she wants to until she kicks the bucket vs. submitting her to a nursing home - quality of life for her vs. possible quantity of days, weeks, months in a nursing home. I am great with this decision which is acceptable with the doctor because I know if I put her in a nursing home they would sedate her until she passed away. That isn't fair for her but it's hard for me to see her not eat much, and wither away. In any case, her days are numbered, I know. My problem is that I have not been trained to be 'the boss' and feel like I am in kindergarten, not having the information to help her and to help me deal with this. Life if life...it's a learning process and the learning never ends. I just feel lost and confused. I don't really know what to do...just help her as I can and accept each day as it happens. Like you mentioned, it's all in a crisis mode, one crisis after another!!! Thank you for your comments!

Romans 2:28 ,God gave them over to a reprobate mind.

The problem is that we are the ones who suffer the burdens of dealing with those reprobate minds. Please Lord, a little mercy on us.

Oh do I relate to this one. My 91 young mother has 5 definite personalities. I can tell which one is present upon entering her house and just taking a look at her facial expression. She was working the selfish, self-centered, short tempered, irresponsible, hateful one today. I haven't seen that one for a couple of weeks so I guess evil Mary was due to make an appearance. I just got done what needed doing and got the heck out of there. I did have to laugh because she knew I was heading for my escape so she told me I could leave before I could get out the door. Did I mention narcissistic control issues? LOL Good luck and just know you are not alone.

Marialake,
How an affected elder cycles through their behaviors can be dangerous, alarming, baffling, impossible to respond to [or not], at any given time.
Talk about tangled wiring! Elders can make the sanest person feel like they've lost their own minds----Mom's favorite game was gas-lighting---1st isolate the target person, then gaslight them to oblivion..
If someone has had mental ills all their life, particularly undiagnosed and untreated, then dementias, or just plain aging challenges are so much harder to deal with!
Yes, they DO, at some level, KNOW their behavior is screwy--and they can't stop themselves doing it. Many of us have witnessed that.
There are LOTS of ways and tricks to dealing with it, but like herding the proverbial cats, no one thing consistently works.
My Mom did this over her lifetime by doing/saying something really mean to someone, then finding a 3rd party "confessor" [She's sooooo not Catholic!]---to tell how bad she felt about it---no apology to the victim/target; and woe the "confessor' who mistakenly thought they were supposed to carry an apology to the target/victim---no, no, no!
It's the pressure relief of doing something inappropriate that they can still do---something that brings even a fleeting feel as if they still have power over their world, even a bit. Sometimes that makes trouble and grief for caretakers. Sometimes they threaten. Exactly like small children...if they can't get their needs met by being good, they will try it by being bad---and it's impossible to predict, 'cuz even when a caretaker is great, th elder hs their own perceptions.
They can't help it--it's tangled up in deep-rooted survival instincts.
Sometimes one can only walk away from the elder and their messes,
to allow Help Systems to step in--they too often can't bridge the gap if any family members are in the way trying to "do right by Mom"---they'll see the elder getting their needs met--not a destroyed caretaker.
In the process of trying to love their elders and respect them, caregivers get hurt, too.
It's important we prevent sacrificing ourselves on the altar of life-long dysfunctional family---we're worthy of having a life, too....we're not supposed to be disposable lifesavers---that's not care-taking. So, rowing away from her sinking boat is a great analogy that sadly, must be done sometimes.

MariaLake - I had that problem when my mom was living with my family and I. She could be so nice to my sons (teens and thank goodness) and then nasty nasty to me. It was stressing all of us out so much. Now that she is fairly settled in a lovely AFH, she does not have the Jeckle and Hyde personality so much (a tad) but has balanced out more. I guess having me, the daughter, be the caregiver that set the rules, did the stuff around the house, and took care of her was too much for her. I hope you can find a way to even things out a bit for you.

I took my mom to see my niece get married 3 states away. I recently had that experience with my mom in the afternoon & alone in the hotel room. She became the rude, unreasonable person that remember as a child. This bought up memories that had been long packed away. I'm blessed with friends that were available via social media that let me vent through the 'dark hours'. We will keep her in long term care, I know now that even if it was an option, I will not/cannot be her 24 hr caregiver.

Heidi, I know how you feel. My husband remembers his reasonable mother who was a teacher and can't seem to stop himself. I don't have those memories of her so it's easier for me to just nod my head and go with the flow. She takes reasoning from me better than him though. The closer they are to you the more they seem to push back. I know how hard it must be for you.

I'm dealing with same and it's difficult. Some days good some days bad. You are doing right thing by backing off and letting her cool down and settle down. My mom always gets better after the break. We have to protect ourselves --mentally in order to be patient and be our best with these loved ones. I honestly have to gear myself up for a phone call or visit and these often drain me and I need time to recover.

I just had incident yesterday where mom called panicking about a burglary where her purse was stolen and checkbook raided. I steeled myself to be calm and patient and tried to walk her thru looking in the house. She was very angry and accusing me of burglarizing home even though I live in another state. I understood how frightening it was to lose her purse --aren't we all?! But she couldn't be reasoned with. I was certain from our conversation that it was just misplaced. She ended up calling police and reporting burglary. She did not call me back and isn't answering my calls today....punishment for not driving 6 hrs or being there "as a good daughter should".

Don't take it personally. Do what you can, when she gets crazy, calmly hang up or leave and tell them you love them and will see them later.

Our incidents are always forgotten and I used to hold the hurts, but just let them go now. She's my mom, I love her, but I won't let her destroy me or ruin my happiness, spoil the good things I have going. I deserve happiness. You do to.

PS they always treat those closest to them the worst --we're their punching bag for all their fear, loss of control, and ailments as they age. Everyday, I tell my husband to please put me in facility when I get old and mean. I never want my children to go thru what I deal with. I pray to be a nice, loving, kind, pliable , happy elder.

Booschmoop, your husband's reactions sound a lot like my own to my mom. I end up trying to reason with her and then I tell my husband, "for some reason it becomes a debate and I feel like I have to make her understand." All I'm doing is wasting my breath and trying my patience, and yet the urge persists. And it gets stronger the more unreasonable she becomes.

I'm so grateful for everyone's stories and advice. My MIL is the same way. I can pretty much tell what she's going to be like when I get her up in the morning. The different personalities is the most difficult thing for me to deal with. It's also hard to accept that she is so self-centered and could care less how she affects everyone around her. It's also very hard when everyone else who meets her for the first time or deals with her on a short time basis tells us how she's the sweetest lady they've ever met! Makes us feel like crap when we talk about how she acts with us. We wonder if it's all in our imagination! A therapist at the rehab facility told us yesterday that her mother said that when they are 95 they've earned the right to treat their kids however they want. My mil certainly subscribes to this line of thought. I certainly do not. I would never subject my children to what we are going through. It scares me to death thinking I could be like her with them.

I do agree that the Teepa Snow videos on Youtube are very helpful. I just want to add that what she teaches makes so much sense but is hard to keep doing for any period of time. Sort of like a diet. When you get really aggravated (and you will) and forget her guidelines (bound to happen), just pick back up where you left off after you've cooled down. My husband can't seem to stop trying to reason with my mil even though we know she just doesn't get it or want to get it. He sounds like a parent trying to reason with a two year old and over explaining.I know he lost her after the first sentence. He'll come to me afterwards and say "Yeah I know I just wasted my time but I couldn't help myself". Sigh...Having an autistic child prepared me for this to some extant but it doesn't make it any easier.

Heidi73; If the doctors won't acknowledge and she refuses to see a different doctor then their isn't much we can do. I've asked for psych evals for years and gotten nowhere. Eventually in tears I asked for antipsychotic meds from the doc and he put mom on Aricept. By that point she was so far gone she was unaware of the meds she was on & did not refuse them. Sometimes we can only wait & pray God has mercy on us. I am grateful he did with me & hope he has mercy on you soon also. If it is any consolation - I have placed my mom in a wonderful AL now & not only is she nice to others but also myself. Environment makes a huge difference & I hope you are blessed with a good one for your mother; to improve your relationship with her and give peace to both of you.

I think that 'what works' varies greatly from person to person. MIL would get angrier and angrier when I did not get upset. I could wish her to have a good time at Silver Sneakers and she turned that around to others about how cruel I was. So I was told by SIL. I wish I knew about the YouTube & who to Google long ago. Maybe it would have helped me cope. I am grateful for the people here!

Thanks, everyone. My mom has been this way for a few years. She's been on pills for dementia and quit them. She's on antidepressants now and stays on them because they're affordable in generic form. When she had a couple issues in hospitals they did psych evals on her an didn't think she was too bad. (And this was after she accused them of trying to poison her and of nurses performing voodoo -- fortunately she recovered from that psychotic episode). I've called area agencies on aging and get referred to someone else, and so on. So far it's been very little luck. Just today she called me, sounded more civilized, and then said she realized I was so nasty because I clearly have marital troubles at home. (I don't.) I cut the call short, but didn't argue, just spoke for a couple more minutes on another topic and then said I had a lot of work to do and wished her a nice day.) I think it's just a case of waiting. No one seems to think she's bad enough to get help nudged her way, and she won't reveal her paranoia to doctors. She'll tell me her neighbor is a prostitute (nope), doctors were laughing at her (nope), nurses were doing voodoo (nope) or another neighbor was calling to her through the ductwork (um, nope), but at the doctor's, she is aware enough not to reveal these problems. I even tell the doctor about it on the side, but questioning yields nothing. She wants to be in her own world in her own apartment.

Sorry, you said it was your dad. Advice probably the same.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. My mom has some "hateful" times. I can NOT reason with her after 5 p.m. It's called sundowners. It's obvious that she doesn't know what is true and what isn't then. I dare not disagree with her either!
She is in a retirement home that has a lot of assistance, so I can avoid being there in the evening. She can do her complaining to her dog. :-). I wish the best
For you and your mom.

My mother doesn't have dementia. Her personality would confuse any doctor (and has). She's very much like two people and you never know who she's going to be. This makes trying to do your 'care giving' very much more difficult. And, (in my opinion) in their older age, it's too late to change... medication isn't always the answer, especially when they won't take it... Some elderly (as many of you know) will always be difficult to be around let alone try to 'manage' (of course, while this takes a toll on you... the caregiver).

Good days, bad days. Good moments, bad moments. Its all a question of how much of a short circuit is in that brain at any given moment.
Internet YouTube Channel: Senior Helpers National - Anything by Teepa Snow. She has truly excellent seminars and I have found them incredibly valuable.
You can also Google Jo Huey and the 10 absolutes. This not only works with Dementia but any elderly narcissist.
Don't argue - it only escalates the contradiction.
Don't try to reason with them - they don't have any reason.
Do divert - diversion, diversion, diversion is the key. If you encounter resistance change the subject & try again later. You may eventually get through but you may not. We do the best we can but at the end of the day we may not have accomplished anything. Take deep cleansing breathes & walk away temporarily when we have to.
They are regressing. Meds may help but it will get worse and not better. This is not a battle we can win but we do what we can when we can to ease the transition into oblivion. Understand that they are as scared as we are. They will lash out at those closest to them, hopefully just verbally. That is what we do when we are afraid and see no remedy. It is a primal response and they are becoming primal creatures.

I agree. It helps to know you are not alone.

Thank you all for sharing your observations. Although I don't have anything to offer in the form of a solution, it really helps to know at least that I am not the only person experiencing this strange phenomenon. My mom had always been a very passive aggressive person in an extremely clever and almost undetectable way. No one ever blamed her because she put up with an often demanding and unreasonable husband. I guess it became her way of coping with the marriage she was in. This was before it became acceptable to devorce and be a single mother. Having to live under that constant pressure caused her to split in some ways into a compliant subservient person AND a more outgoing and stuborn person when dad wasn't around. Now that she is elderly and infirm, these two sides of the coin are becoming more and more obvious to us. At times it is quite surprising. I thing this is because now the stakes are so high that she feels the most internal pressure and is struggling to function in this new reality.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It really helps to understand that mom is not the only one displaying this confusing behavior.

I sincerely hope that if she gets transported to ER/hospital for treatment/diagnosis, that they actually DO a psych eval.
With my mom, they didn't really do it. So mom's sliding thru life without a diagnosis except for catastrophic ills, which means no treatment for her mental ills. Which makes caregiving that much more "interesting"...and potentially dangerous.
Be concise and specific on descriptions you give the professionals who do an intake for her. It seems these days, too many Docs need the symptoms served up on a platter for them to find.

My mother is 92 and living in a long term facility. She has very advanced Alzheimers/Dementia although she has still not been fully diagnosed or even tested despite our many requests to have a full work up done. I can totally relate to these stories that have been shared. My mother is also Dr. Jeckle, and Mr. Hyde. It turns on and off like a switch. As a result of her violence when she gets hostile we can not care for her 24/7 as she has hit all of us. Last time we tried to care for her 24/7, she threw us out of the house, which left her with no care until the ambulance came as we called 911 in order to get her some help. We visit my mother every day at the care center, and she is so happy to see us, and is never hostile toward us in this new living arrangement as we are not her care givers now, but instead her visitors and family. So we are now kind of her heros, when we come. She is also very depressed at times, yet her personality dose swing and it almost seems as though she has multiple personalities. I wish there were a cure for this or at least a better way to manage it. It sounds like many in a similar condition as my mother are suffering as they have a fragile brain, which means they need our love and support and compassion all the more. Sadly their behaviors that are out of control set themselves up for retaliation that could be abusive. We check my mother for bruises regularly as nursing homes dont always to the right thing. We have even called the Ombudsman and they have helped us alot. As others have said, we also are on an emotional roller coaster, and we are often exhausted while trying to care for, and about my dear mother. I think we all need to pray for a miracle. This is a disastrous way to end life!

There are times when my husband who is 90 says something sarcastic, like "What are we doing all of this for? Are we going to see the Pope?" We are not even Catholic! This in a mean way while complaining during a clean up.. If I respond with an angry remark he explodes and then, remarkably, he becomes docile and sweet which he usually is.

The angry explosion is a release for him, I think, and he needs it to put up with his increasing disability - can't walk even with a walker nor feed himself now. He has lost feeling and control of arm, hand and leg muscles..

VNA with PT begins sometime tomorrow... derned week-end interferred with action.. Wish us luck!

We had the Jeckyl/Hyde with my MIL. She loved my BIL. She tore into her son and didn't realize my BIL had come in he door as well. Her attitude did a complete 180° when she saw my BIL. Turns out once he stood back and thought about it, her son remembered she had a mean side when he was a child. It is very sad that she saved her venom for the one son taking care of her and saved all the sweetness for others, in recent years. Yes!! Jeckyl/ Hyde happens!!!

DeeDesign--I also found that getting quiet works wonders --sort of takes the air out of her mean balloon streak!

My MIL was never easy to deal with. But now that I am her full time caregiver and she lives with me.....................she is really tough. Here's the thing: I KNOW that she KNOWS that she is hurting me. Yes, her Alzheimers is pretty much late stage but she is still manipulative. Sweet as pie to any and all people who stop by. But when we are alone her persona toward me is well.......not nice. I've spent tons of hours reading up on dementia. But I hardly find anything that addresses this problem. She is Dr. Jeckyl and Mr Hyde. Anyone else have this problem?