Is extended end-of-life common? How many people will require years of caregiving before they die?

I don't know if I wrote this already but the care team at my dad's NH explained to me that the DNR is for if they walk in and his heart has stopped. It does not apply to if they walk in and he is in cardiac arrest. They will do CPR on him then and try to save him. I think there must be a technical meaning to resuscitate. They explained that it was a common misconception. That turned out to be exactly what my dad said he wanted. He said not to try if he was gone but if he was arresting, to try. I do think it's common to think the DNR means "just let me die".
Anyway, I was at the NH yesterday for a care meeting and I saw the elderly ladies sitting there watching TV. All lolling about in their chairs. One lady in particular was clearly in dementia. She was just drooling and would occasionally start sort of sobbing to herself as if she was crying about something inside of herself. Then she would stop and I just thought that if I was like that, let's just say that I don't want to be like that. I am going to make it clear that I want to be put out of my suffering. It prolly won't work but I can try.
I read about a couple who went to Sweden to cross over together because one got diagnosed with a terminal illness. They wanted to be together. Then there is the man who walked into his wife's NH and shot her. He is being tried now for murder when he was probably doing it because he loved her. Who knows of course but anyway. There is a company in Sweden that does compassionate care like this. I wish we would treat ourselves as well as we treat horses when they are suffering. I think it's all this religiosity that makes people so terrified of dying. Plus the unknown. Going to burn in hell etc. I think we need to view death differently instead of trying to hang on to a last little thread. IDK. I know it's sensitive. Oh yes, I read this book once called "Like water for chocolate" which is about a girl youngest in her family and her mother expects her to sacrifice her whole life to take care of her at the end of her life. It's a great book and a not so great film.

Short answer is yes, a lot of people need care. The three years is kind of an average. Oddly enough, both of my parents were in care for about that length of time. Sometimes it goes on longer, maybe even much longer, and of course, we would all like to be healthy and happy up until a couple of days before our time is up, at about age 100 or so, but on these forums, most of us end up here because difficult caregiving goes on and on so there is quite a selection bias. My aunt and the moms of a couple good friends and colleagues passed rather suddenly - not that they were in perfect health ot totally wildly out of the blue - but it was still a huge shock to loved ones. The challenge and grief of that happening is very real too, just different from what most of us are here about.

I would say get the best long term care insurance you can afford for a loved one or for yourself if you have a history or family history suggesting you might need it. Think of it as bankruptcy insurance.

And folks, you know who you are, or you should...PLEASE think before being harsh and judgemental with others here in this same sorry boat. Do not nitpick or seek to find the smallest flaw. Be authentic, but be kind. I can tell you that getting picked on scolded or criticized on here can feel like being beaten up. Good people have left or taken breaks from it because of this, even when people rally around and they defend themselves well...many of us suffer from self-doubt, self-second guessing, and are unfairly criticized by family including and especially the one we may be trying to care for. We should be bearing ones another's burdens, not adding to them.

The five year "look back" doesn't apply to spouses. See an Elder Law attorney who can take care of everything for you.

We know you can put one partner into the nursing home with Medicare, Medicaid, Soc. Sec and so forth and the other can keep the money as long as it is under $100,000 in property and assets and can only have $2,000 in bank account, think it is called the poverty law. And if you can get assets put in an account not in their name for 5 years before having to put them into the facility, they can go in on Medicaid and Soc. Sec.

Thanks balexander9. I hope that's true. In fact I will probably have to start looking in the near future, because after over 3 years of paying $4100.00+ at the AL my mom's funds are getting very low. Scary.

Not all nursing homes that take Medicaid are awful. Many are places where people paid a lot of money until they had "paid down" their assets to be eligible for Medicaid. It is very important to spend a lot of time looking around to find a place where you feel comfortable that you family member will be well cared for.

Thank you, balexander9. To answer downtown's question, my Dad was initially in the ICU of the same hospital where he subsequently passed. He had COPD and at age 80 (he died approximately 1 week after his birthday which was spent in the ER). He entered the ER on his birthday and never came out of the hospital. He went up to the cardiac ICU where he signed his DNR. He was scared, I know, and I tried my best to comfort him after the nurse told me the next day that he had signed it. I told him that it was okay, that he could change his mind at any time if he wished and that everything would be okay. He had been hospitalized for almost 3 months over the summer and this time, I think he knew he wasn't coming home. So when he was basically "stable", he was moved to a "regular" floor and I think I knew in my heart that this was it. His medical binder/folder was moved with him from the ICU to the regular floor, so I'm positive they knew about his DNR.

Because my Dad was never a "talker", I thought it was imperative that my Mom spend some time with him alone in his room. My brother and sister would always want to sit with him in his room all day long during visiting hours and I asked them to please let him sit with Mom for a little alone time. Whether they (Mom and Dad) discussed anything personal between them or not, I'll never know. I just wanted them to have this opportunity to talk if they wished (they had been married for 59 years). I think my Mom thought he was coming home after this particular bout with shortness of breath hospital stay. My Dad died that year (2008) the day before Thanksgiving Day. The Tuesday before (8 days before) he went into the ER on his 80th birthday. His sister (my Aunt) brought up a birthday cake for him and set it on his stomach that day and that was the final picture I have of my Dad. I visited him everyday except his LAST day as I was preparing for Thanksgiving Dinner for the next day (how guilty do I feel is beyond words). I did call him though and spoke with him for a few minutes to tell him that I loved him and I would be there the next day to visit. However, 3 hours after I hung up the phone, I got a call from the nurse's station that my father had stopped breathing and they were doing chest compressions and they wanted to know if I wanted them to continue. I was very angry that they (the hospital staff) put me in that position when they had his DNR order there right before them. It was at that moment I felt so much guilt for telling them to "stop and let him go". Not to mention the overwhelming frustration at the nurses on his floor. During his hospital stay, it was only the caring concern of his lung doctor who told me to call him ANY TIME if I needed to talk. I will never forget that. After my father passed, it was this doctor that sent my Mom a sympathy card for our loss. Such class. I only wish his primary care doctor had that class. He was basically non-existent in his care (but that's a whole other long story).

My husband and I have tried to raise our son (a medical student) with love and compassion and I hope we have passed these traits onto him as he continues his medical education. When he was an undergrad, he spent a semester in South Africa and witnessed himself the need for caring and compassion in this world where people have extremely limited resources for living and medical care. As the population ages and medicine/technology advances, we will see more and more of these quantity/quality of life issues emerge. I told my son that I hope medical schools will be emphasizing these issues and hope they will emphasize the importance of TALKING with family members in a caring and compassionate way about end-of-life issues. I feel so many doctors these days are in it for the glamorous/high income areas (surgery, cardiac specialties, neurosurgery, etc) and doctors who specialize in geriatric medicine are few and far between. There are too few specialists in this area for the fastest growing segment of society (elders). It's a shame. Thanks for listening.....

balexander9..........I agree with all you said 100%, and I feel the same exact way. I just don't know how we will be able to afford the care in a nursing home. I guess we'll be on medicade and be in some horrible place, but I will not put my daughter through any of that!

I have told my children that I do not want to be cared for at home if I develop dementia. I told them that I would rather be in a nursing home, even if it isn't the nicest place, where I can see them for visits but not have to disrupt their lives with the burden of my care, particularly if I become mean and abusive. I also told them that I would not like an heroic measures in that situation - a DNR with no respirator, no feeding tube, no invasive procedures, etc. Only pain medication so that I could be as comfortable as possible. My father, who was a doctor, had written a Living Will to this effect ten years before he died but only my sister, who had witnessed the document, knew about it. When he became bedridden and mental incompetent during the last few months of his life, my sister pushed for more and more tests and wanted everything done to keep my father alive as long as possible. When my father's Living Will was found, all Hell broke loose in the family. My sister still tried to fight for more tests and more treatment, saying that our father would have changed his mind later. She was overruled by the rest of us and my father we managed to get my father released from the hospital where he lived for another 2 months with hospice care that honored his wishes. I think it is very important to honor the patient's wishes rather than for family members to impose their own wishes on the patient, particularly when the patient can no longer advocate for him/herself. It is very selfish to do otherwise.

I too was in shock with Ferris1's response and rude comment. As I mentioned in my earlier post my mom is 90 and has been wheelchair bound the past 3 years, and has no quality of life. Some of it because of her mental and physical condition, and some by choice because she does not want to participate in any activities offered at the AL. Before she was ill she prepared her living will and we have a DNR. She soooo did not want to end up in the condition she is now and never wanted to live like this. If she knew the real condition she's in she would be so appaled. When she would see others in the shape she's in now (before she was ill) she would always comment on how she couldn't understand why people had to live that way. She always said, "if I ever get like that just take a gun and shoot me." I feel the same way, and seeing how many are suffering like her and others, it scares the Hell out of me.

A typo - meant to say "NO respirator or feeding tube".

What a well thought-out, sensitive post you made, Help2day. My husband, who has Dementia NOS (love those "NOS" non-diagnoses) and Parkinsonism (sort of another non-diagnosis in that it isn't actually Parkinson's Disease per se) in addition to diabetes, was recently in the hospital for what turned out to be cystitis. Once my husband was finally transported from the Geriatric ER to this hospital floor (after a wait of many hours), I got to observe the new intake procedures on the floor. This included checking the patient carefully for physical signs of abuse and asking many questions related to possible abuse or neglect. I am all for that. However, when asked about the patients wishes in terms of heroic life-saving measures I (as Medical Proxy) told the nurse that there was to be a DNR and respirator or feeding tube. (My husband and I had discussed this when he was having one of his more lucid days, although he is not likely to remember that conversation now.) The nurse became very upset and tried to argue with me about these orders. When I held firm, she said "I'll ask the doctor" as though the doctor had the right to override the patient's wishes. I was angry at the nurse for allowing her own person beliefs about end-of-life issues to intrude on the care of a patient who she had just met. Unfortunately, I think this is not as unusual as it should be.

Help2day, so glad you wrote about the DNR, my parents have one also, was your Dad at the hospital where the DNR was on record? I wonder if it is like damned if you do damned if you don't for the medical persons, they are trained and taught to keep people alive, but then there is a DNR and they are like caught in the middle. But I totally agree that is what was wanted and was expected from you and your Dad, adhere to it I say, Thanks a lot And have a great day.

I have to say, Ferris1, that this is the 2nd time I've read that you have discouraged people from their voicing their opinions/views. To tell a forum member that "I don't think this is the forum for you since you are not a caregiver of someone with dementia, but you are welcome to read about those caring for someone with end-of-life issues." is really nervy. People need this website/forum to be free to ask ALL questions without being "scolded" that they shouldn't be here, "but you are welcome to read about those caring for someone with end-of-life issues." REALLY??? Well, thank you very much. Whirlpool had a LEGITIMATE question (albeit brief) but without knowing all her personal facts, you jumped to the conclusion that this forum wasn't for her because she wasn't dealing with someone with dementia. How did you conclude that from her original question? Please be more empathetic in the future.

Whirlpool ~ please know that you are welcome on this forum to ask ANY question! To answer your question, in my humble opinion (IMHO), unfortunately, with the advances of medical care over the past 50 years, it has made it pretty much a given that "extension" of life is valued over "quality of life". I have had this discussion in depth with my 87-year old mother-in-law. She was always very active (up until a couple of years ago) -- she is still living independently with my FIL -- and in her opinion she has had a pretty much happy life and has told me numerous times she's "ready to go" and has no regrets. On the other hand, my own mother (age 84) who also still lives independently at home but struggles with mobility and (I believe) unresolved depression about my father's death 5 years ago, refuses to discuss end-of-life issues in any way, shape or form. I think she just hopes that she will one day just not wake up and that will be that. Well, guess what, that most likely will not happen. I think the elderly (like my mother) would like to live forever and not think about the fact that they no longer will be walking this earth and as someone else mentioned (I think on this forum) that they are scared that no one will remember them and that their life was for naught. Unforntunately, for the vast majority of the earth's population, that will be true. Unless your famous, or Marie Curie, Elvis, Abraham Lincoln, etc., only one or two generations will remember you after you pass. That is a fact and it is what it is. You can only hope to live a good, happy life and enjoy it while you can.

Butterflygrl, I hear you. I get it. Elderly people can become very angry with their circumstances and their loss of control and sometimes it may or may not be within their power to change their situation. Do not feel guilty for your father's circumstance. As you said, he lived his life the way he wanted and now when he is unable to control his surroundings, he is taking it out on you. Just know you are keeping him safe and if he has to be angry about that, then so be it. Stay strong. In my girlfriend's situation where she had to put her mother -- now 93 -- into a nursing home several years ago because she kept falling and could not live on her own anymore, she visits her Mom 3 x a week and still, her mother makes her feel guilty about it. Her Mom felt that it was her "job" to care for her no matter what, that she should even have left her husband and move in to HER home and take care of her. Ahhh, I think not. My girlfriend struggles with this guilt all the time. I just tell her that no matter what, she did the best she could for her Mom in finding her a NH that takes fairly good care of her and she is safe. She is an only child, by the way. We have this discussion on many occasions. Her mother never fails to guilt-trip her at nearly every visit. I don't know how she does these visits 3 x a week. If it were me, I'd be cutting it down to once a week.

But, I digress. To the original question, I think the answer in the future, is a change in the way the medical community thinks about preserving life at any cost. My son is in medical school and the courses he takes on medical ethics are very thought provoking. A doctors creed is "do not harm" but in essence, is keeping one alive under any circumstances "doing no harm". There are some who say they do not want to be kept alive if their foreseeable quality of life will be less than ideal. And then there are those who feel they want to live as long as possible no matter what the emotional/physical/financial cost becomes. That's why the medical community has tried to encourage everyone (at every doctor appt or hospital stay) to make their wishes known through a health care proxy or medical POA. And even then with those things, it is not black and white. My father signed a DNR order and at 11 pm at night I was awakened by a phone call from the hospital staff on duty that they had started CPR on my father and they wanted to know if I wanted th em to stop chest compressions. Really??? Are you kidding me??? What the hell was the DNR he signed for? To this day, I still feel guilty for telling them to "stop" and let him go. Did I make the right decision? I think so. Do I feel guilty about it? You bet. I thought do not resusitate meant just that -- do not resusitate if someone goes into cardiac arrest. I am still angry to this day at the hospital staff for making me make that decision when clearly my father had already made that decision for himself. He was another one who would not discuss any end-of-life decisions with his family (wife, kids, etc.) and it was only when I asked the hospital staff to discuss with him a DNR that he signed it. It broke my heart that the nurse who had that discussion with him, told me later that he was crying when he signed it. I am crying while I write this now.

To all the caregivers out there, I say God bless you. It is a difficult journey and ((((HUGS)))) are sent to all.

Butterflygrl, you hang in there and stand your ground, I went through the same thing with my parents, both afraid if they gave anyone control over their assets was not an option to them, now we are working in a hard situation of figuring out what to do. Hang in there girl, lots of us support you. :)

I was also confused by the response to you, whirlpool. I wondered if Ferris thought you were someone else -- maybe even a response meant for another thread about LTC costs. It didn't make much sense to many of us. It seems the odd answer pops up occasionally here and there. I guess that the best thing we can do when it happens is remind ourselves that it is just a bothery ol' support group. You are so welcome here because people like you. No worries.

Thanks for your support balexander9, I'm hanging back for a bit, maybe go take some respite with Jeanne.

Whirlpool: I also commented earlier than no-one who feels that this forum is helpful to them should be excluded. I was also offended by the suggestion that you didn't belong here. I hope you stay with us and continue to contribute to and benefit from your communications with all of us.

Thank you everyone. You guys are kind. Right now my father is very angry at me and tells me that "I figured you would turn on me, it happened one time before". I know he really feels this way and that he wants me to know how upset he is and how betrayed he feels but honestly, he will never be able to see it from any other perspective because to me, men don't have to sacrifice much in their lives. They never have to do medical Dr visits where things are put in them with feet up or getting pregnant etc. so he has never had anyone telling him what to do except himself. At this point, if he would have been able to chill out, I would have set up a better situation but I can't get caught with him outside the NH and then refusing to go back in except by force. I really feel bad about it BUT, I have arrived at this conclusion and like I said, I am always having to do things I don't wanna do. He has to walk this part of the journey on his own and deal with it. It may hasten him out but what is the choice. Crappy and crappier. LOL may the force be with us.

Butterflygrl. I can feel your frustration and anger. Although I am dealing with 2 at the same time with Alzheimer's. I get so angry that I have to make their decisions and run their lives. I have enough trouble running my own. So I won't make this long just know you can vent on here anytime, because I do the same thing. You are in my thoughts and I hope it gets better for you. God Bless You

You make some excellent points Butterflygrl. I think that people live longer at home not only because of psychological reasons but because even the best nursing home is not generally as vigilant as family caretakers in noticing things like an incipient UTI or other illness. Group care is not likely to be as through as 1:1 care. However, there is also the statistic of caregivers predeceasing their patient, something that worries me at the age of 68 because I have high blood pressure and a family history of people dying of heart attacks and strokes in their 60s. We are in the process of getting my husband qualified for Mediciad (much more easily done with a spouse than a parent). Once my husband has Medicaid, I will not wait indefinitely before looking for a decent nursing home because I don't want to end my life this way.

Butterflygrl, your dad sounds very much like my FIL. My husband has limited visits and to be honest, we can only be around my husband so much if he has to be around his father for any length of time. It is like getting injected with some kind of bad drug. :(
Sad thing is, if it was not for gambling his money away, playing big shot with girlfriends, etc. my FIL has a killer pension. He is 86 years old, took a buyout at his job and has drawn a pension for 25 years. He had one of the kind of jobs they don't make anymore. If he had saved just a percentage of what he earned with his pension, he could have stayed at home and had 24/7 round the clock care with an aid and it most likely would have been enough to do him for the rest of his life. He would have never had to set foot in a nursing home. But he wasted it. His bank account is slowly growing since he has been in the hospital/rehab and my husband and I have looked at his bills and see what really goes out. He has very few regular monthly bills -- the rest has been blown.
I am recovering from acute renal failure and early congestive heart failure and am at high risk for a stoke. My husband is older than me, diabetic and other health problems. We could kill ourselves so he could knock out 90 or more. I could also cash in all our savings and my daughter's college fund and pay for him to be cared for 24/7 at home -- but why should we let him rob my daughter and ourselves when he didn't care to save for himself?
As I mentioned on another thread -- free will is a tricky thing. Your dad and my FIL made all the decisions they did freely. Sometimes you have to pay the piper at the end.
(((Hugs))) to you and your decision.

Ferris1, I am deeply offended by your response. I AM the responsible party for my mother who is likely to be diagnosed with early stage dementia within the next month and has suffered an undiagnosed form of mental illness all of my life. I live long distance and have been working my a** off to help her find help that she will accept locally until I can work out a better solution. She struggles with many issues and is on the edge of no longer being able to live independently. I also will be responsible for the end of life care for a second family member after her. So yes I do belong here.

I also like to ask questions that make people think and explore issues for the future. My original post was clear - I am interested in the question of whether the need for extended caregiving is how aging typically goes for everyone now in modern times. Personally I'm interested in this wondering what is ahead for me with my own two current and future caregiving situations and then for my own aging as well.

Again you have a lot of nerve telling me I don't belong here. I have a hell of a lot to contribute even if I don't walk in the same shoes exactly as many of you yet - but I don't feel quite so welcome anymore.

Apologies to everyone that has been good to me here, this just really hit a nerve.

It is interesting information about home vs nursing care. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford home care and are forced to do Nursing care. I am thankful for the nursing home that my father is at. He hates it of course but he hates anything but being on his own at home. He didn't sacrifice for us when we were little so my sister has not time or energy to spend and i understand that. I am trying to do the best I can but I am one person and I cannot lift my father nor can I deal with his fits, his constant need to move around when he can barely walk. He gets up all hours of the night and refuses to sleep even though he has fallen so many times. He will not use a cane, walker, whatever. There is talk about being like a child and in some ways this might be true but children try to learn, they are excited about new things, they are playful and delight at the smallest things. Old people just b**** and moan and carry on as if they are the center of the universe. I have decided in my dad's case that I am not going to allow anyone to make me feel guilty and I refuse to heap it onto myself. I went into this with a gung ho attitude. I was going to rescue him out of that NH and take care of him myself. But I realized that no matter where he is, he will be miserable. Then he will just spread this toxicity to me and I already have enough to deal with just from my childhood alone. I can't take on more. I love my father but he has to learn to deal with the NH and NO I don't see the point of anyone living on and being miserable. I don't understand this attitude. If anything, they should just take the pain meds and whatever it takes to make them chilled and just try to enjoy what they can. I am now starting to understand why people stay away from Nursing homes! I always thought it was just pure apathy but now I see that every time I go, it just upsets my dad because he can't do all that I am doing. Just getting in the car going places. I guess I don't understand this generation. Maybe it's true, they are the ME generation. I don't recall much ado made by my grandmother about the end of her life. She just did what she could and went peacefully. These elders are just totally self obsessed. I told my father the other day: look dad- you had a good run! you trashed your body with drugs and lived very hard and then you got diabetes. You lasted another 15 -20 years or so before you started to decline so you have to accept where you are and just deal with it. I don't understand it at all- I have to deal with things all the time that I don't like. I don't complain about it, I just trudge through it and get it done. I notice some people at the NH who seem to be content to just chill out and visit with each other. NOT my dad. He has to create a big scene and have drama. It's just ridiculous. I realize you all probably won't agree with me but my dad was incarcerated twice and he lived a gang life style. So, to me, if you live this way, then your body responds accordingly. I don't buy into all of this guilt stuff about how I owe my parents this and that. It's just not sustainable to have a 2 parent household with kids and then to add on aging parents. I believe there used to be communities where family was all nearby and pitched in. Now it falls to one person to kill their selves and feel guilty for every little slight. If my dad was more manageable I might try to have him with me and that was my hope originally but it has not gone in that direction so he has to deal with it. I am done listening to what he wants. Tried that and short of going home and wandering around in the yard at 3am. or driving around like a lunatic, Adult protective says he cannot be alone and they will charge me with abuse so, there he is. Interesting note about caregivers dying before their charge. My dad's wife was a good 10-11 years younger than he and she was determined to care for him and was the reason he was able to stay on his own as long as he has. She passed away before him at the age of 62. He is 74 and once she left, he lasted another 10mos to yr without her. Good lesson about care giving. Makes me sit up and take notice. peace to everyone and groovy times. Believe me, I love my former dad. He just isn't what he was and this new person needs to get on board. :)

To respond to joycews, I was just told this past week by a therapist that people placed in nursing homes do die much sooner than those care for at home. Is it the family members in attendance that give the ill person a reason to keep going? That I do not know, but I do know that nursing home care is not personal or loving, it is just care. I am positive my mother would be gone by now if she was not at home.

I'm going to answer the question from a little different perspective. It seems to depend on the family. I'll go from our personal experience. When I was 7, my grandmother was pretty sick and required surgery. Her health problems esclated and she had horrible operations and passed when I was 21. My mom took care of her off and on for all those years. Sometimes she would go back home for awhile, then other times she would stay with us for months. She was bedridden for approx. 2-3 years bad.
I also had a cousin who sufferered from severe epilepsy (12-15 seizures per day, brain surgery, etc). Now, when he was younger he was more mobile and could take care of his personal needs, visit family, etc. He was bedridden for around the same amount of time as my grandmother. Maybe a little longer.
My FIL is 86, diabetic, 2 heart surgeries, mild dementia and has lived in his home up until the last month (he is in rehab) and has pretty much been mobile and able to take care of himself up until around 2 years ago. For the last couple of years it has been my husband and other hired caregivers helping him.
Now the one common thread I have noticed is that in all cases I mentioned every person was taken care of in their or a relatives home. I think it my grandmother or cousin had been in a nursing home, they would have passed away sooner. When I was in my early 20's, I thought that was just wonderful. I am now 20 years older and not so certain that a hasted death would not have been better for them and all involved. My grandmother suffered horribly going from 154 lbs. to 54 lbs. when she died. She could not eat due to an esophagus condition and the pain was so bad at the end that she said she felt like rats were eating her stomach. She kept her mind all the way to the end and requested a closed casket.
My cousin also suffered horribly and in the end could not even speak. It was a horrible situation for his young son to see.
I can think of cases of extended family members who caregived for their parents/grandparents and in most cases they kept them at home as long as they could. The ones who went to nursing homes seemed to not live long. Now is it that they just didn't have long to live anyway and going to a nursing home had nothing to do with it? Or could it be that the direct one on one attention, making certain a person eats, mental stimulation, etc. all would have added a little more time? Is more time a good thing when someone is suffering? And I have read studies where people think only those with cancer, heart failure or other ailments suffer the most but those with dementia/alzheimers have been reported to often be frightened by not recognizing their surroundings, not recognizing family etc. So while their bodies may be healthy, they are suffering. And I have seen mental conditions become worse when patients were taken out of the familiar setting of their home (my grandma was that way).
My heart goes out to any one going through this or needing to make a decision about in home care vs. a nursing home. With my FIL, we are opting for the later. He and our family will be safer (he put a gun to his stomach and also cut himself with a knife and has violent outbursts and is on anti-depressants and diagnosed as paranoid) and our health is such we cannot lift him, which he requires. Will his life be shorted by going into a nursing home? It is anyone's guess. Is it bad if it is? In my opinion, if he has his heart right with the Lord, then no.

In 2004 standing in a hospital room, listening to all the elderly people around who were so ill, I thought "Oh my gosh, what good does it do to prolong life if there is no quality to that life!" It was my first experience with elder care and a close relative being very ill. I agree with what most all of you have said that science wants to prolong our life, however it has done nothing to provide us with illness free years and no one wants to insure you for all those extra years we get to live in hospitals or convalescent homes. The sci-fi alternative of doing away with us all when we reach a certain age is NOT something I want to ever see happen either.
To get back to your question however.....no one can say how long you or any of us will live. I would say to plan for a long term illness and if you die quickly, you will be lucky. We can all take out these policies and walk outside and get hit by a truck and die or we can acquire a disease such as dementia or alzheimer's and be ill for 5-20 years. Only God knows what is in our future.

I meant to write that raising children is a joy (although it is also a job).

You are very welcome. It always bothers me when I hear someone say that being a caregiver for an elderly person with dementia is like raising children. Raising children is a job, even though there are days when it doesn't feel that way. Taking care of an elderly person with dementia is not a joy.

balexander 9..thank you for your post. I've been thinking all day about how I could respond to Marco's post, and I could not have said it better than you did. There is a HUGE difference taking care of your children vs. taking cae of an elderly parent who has dementia or alzheimers. Thank you for expressing my thoughts!