Estate talks w/ siblings that don't help - Who gets what?

My MIL, just split hers up, last month. She did it as she wanted to. My husband is the only one here in town and is POA, but he wouldn't ask for any more things because of that. We have spelled our own estate out, in a will.

Is there no will? Maybe she should make one.

Divide it equally and get on with your life. Caregiving isn't a contest to determine the winner in an estate lottery. Good luck!

Let's just put it this way.... I've been caring for my mom alone for over a decade. If I did have siblings that did absolutely nothing in all that time to help me with our mother, I'd fight tooth and nail to deny my siblings a stinking thing. They didn't do the work, that should have been everyone's, so they don't get paid. Nice and simple.

I agree with the primary care giver. They get what they get based on what they've done and contributed. They haven't done anything? They don't get anything. I know full well what kind of work and brutal hours goes into taking care of the elderly. That primary care giver, as far as I'm concerned, deserves it all...or damn sure most of it.

Ever heard the story 'The little red hen'? Yeah. Nice lesson that.

In the tale, the little red hen finds a grain of wheat, and asks for help from the other farmyard animals to plant it, but none of them volunteer.

At each later stage (harvest, threshing, milling the wheat into flour, and baking the flour into bread), the hen again asks for help from the other animals, but again she gets no assistance.

Finally, the hen has completed her task, and asks who will help her eat the bread. This time, all the previous non-participants eagerly volunteer. But she declines their help, stating that no one aided her in the preparation work, and eats it with her chicks, leaving none for anyone else.

The moral of this story is that those who show no willingness to contribute to a product do not deserve to enjoy the product: "if any man will not work, never let him eat."

Yup. Love that story. Nice and simple, isn't it?

my sister who couldnt even get along with my mother and certainly never done anything to help her showed up at the reading of the will with an old appraisal that proclaimed moms home and property to be worth 80 k and she wanted a third of that amount. freakin idiot. the attorney told her the property was only worth what someone would be willing to pay for it. it was a 25 year old modular that a bank would never lend on. the atty permitted older sister to take immediate occupancy so the place wouldnt sit empty " mouth " got 9 k just to shut her up and my ass went home. its just interesting that the kid who done the least was the most combative.

POA and trustee will spend funds on Mom's care needs.. There may be no funds to distribute when she passes.. If you all agree you can have Atty write a contract for care giving to sibling doing it.. If siblings don't want to pay then TELL them Mom is coming to live with them for her 24hour care..

Her wishes are what they are today, but they are clueless to the amount of money, mental and physical work goes into their care giving..

If only those of us who did all the work got the rewards. Unfortunately, life is not like that. At least mine sure isn't! When you think about all the time, effort and frustration you put up with it certainly feels like you should get some compensation for it. After all, you do something most people have to pay someone else (i.e. an aide) to do. So if that's what happens I think it's completely fair. Just because you do the work not expecting to be paid doesn't mean you don't deserve it when it comes down to it.

Rachal - really mom needs to clearly state who gets what and how and have the update done as a codicil to her will. She isn't dead so all this has to be by her specific determination.

If the POA is not benefitting from the estate, sometime they can draw up the codicil for mom to sign off on & have notarized. But that really should be a legal determination if it is feasible for your mom's cognitive ability. I'm my mom's executrix but I do not at all benefit from her estate as a person inheriting from her, so this takes me out of anyone claiming I am doing it for me. If whomever is indicated as executor is like my situation, they can really hard-ball on administering the estate.

This is likely going to be ugly and ill will for years to come. There are still people pi$$ed off about my aunts estate I was executrix for and that was 2 decades ago.

Perchance, who in this group is indicated as executor / executrix of mom's estate? They as administrator have a good bit of determining value on mom's estate. If there are a couple of family (or more likely those who married into the family) who are making all the noise on $, the executor can really s....l.....o....w down the probate process.For my executrix terms (2 different aunts), 1 I ran out to the full 4 years allowed and that gives you a ton of time to either wear folks down or negotiate. You can pay to have licensed appraisals done on things, a forensic accountant to review all banking and other costs, all kinds of things that will cost, time & money.

BTW if sibling who has done the caregiving wanted to, they can file a claim against the estate for their costs to caregiving. Now they probably can;t successful file to get paid for their time (that is usually viewed as done as a familial duty & for free) but they can file for mileage at the federal rate, parking costs, and for anything they paid for to others (like a cleaning lady or yard guy or a sitter). All that would be likely a class 1 claim against the estate in probate court and paid first & foremost before the rest is divvied out. Probate judges are pretty good about recognizing who in the family did the work and will try to compensate them for their expenses. BUT you have to file a claim with documentation to get this done.
good luck.

my sister comes up here and looks at things she wants when mum dies?? SO heres what ive suggested to my mum; my sis had her eye on mums commode its an antique? SO she wants it then she be left that with contents I cant wait to see her face when shes given her inheritence!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh did I mention shes a born again christian? (no offence to genuine christians.)

I've been doing a little research online, and there are cases in which a care giver...a family member...sued their parents estate for back pay for CARE and HOURS and WON. It's worth a shot. Maybe if more people insisted on getting compensation to begin with, which to me is neither unfair or greedy, they wouldn't be in dire straits and feel the need to sue to begin with.

One gal sued her mom's estate for the tune of $250 a day for the 24/7 care she gave her mom when she realized that her SIBLING, who hadn't done anything, was in the will, and SHE wasn't! I mean...what? She was awarded $150 a day...for 3 years, 24/7. Yes indeed.

I am one of three heirs to my mother's will, executor to her will and have durable power of attorney. Her assets will be used for her care first and if there is anything left over after her passing, to the heirs. My mother wants to move in with me when she can no longer live independently to preserve her assets for her estate and heirs to inherit. Not going to happen. I would rather inherit nothing than take on all the responsibility as a caregiver for others to benefit and do nothing.

Just keep on fighting , and the whole thing will go to probate, there will be court fees and the judge will take a long time to carve it up into equal slices for each child. That is, if there is anything left after all the bills are paid. If I was the mother I would solve the problem by giving it all to a charity; end of fight.

I'm in the same crowded boat with you, Debralee. Mom is now in AL, but I handle her finances, keep her in Depends, tissues, soap, etc. and do her laundry. My brother, who has not even spoken to mom in over six years, will inherit half of her estate. The estate would be much larger if I had mom living with me, but that is not going to happen with her dementia. I would become homebound while my brother golfs and travels. Why would I do that to increase his inheritance? My POA prohibits me from being paid as her agent, but I do reimburse myself for expenses, and I am seriously considering paying myself for the laundry service at the same rate the AL facility charges.

Maybe you should find a different elder care attorney -- one who understands and will encourage a "caregiver agreement". If that one sibling doesn't provide the majority of care for Mom, then someone else would have to do it ... and be PAID to do it. The money is for Mom's care - period. Anything left after she is gone then could be split up evenly. Since when did it become expected for a person to leave money to their heirs instead of using it for their own much-needed care?

When my grandparents died, they left their estate --- money and a small house --- to their three children equally. My father had been their primary caregiver for years, and my grandparents' house was next door to my parents' home. My aunt and uncle deeded their share of the house to my father in recognition of his care of their parents. My father had never expected this, and he appreciated the gesture enormously. BUT --- I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that the caregiver should automatically be deemed the principal heir. Caregiving for a parent is a choice some of us make. Our siblings can't be expected to pay for our choices out of their share of whatever estate our parent wanted them to have (although, like my uncle and aunt, they may do so).

AK, pay yourself. You're doing the JOB aren't you?

Yes, we're all good people. No, we aren't greedy blood suckers that are taking advantage of our parents. Yes, while we do what we do out of the goodness of our hearts, we shouldn't be stupid either. Or feel guilty because well, yes, we actually do need to eat and live, too, when the care giving journey has ended.

Who lied and said we had to be martyrs? I'm all for giving, but I don't want to give so much to someone else that looking at the street as home becomes my reality. Yes, we really should look to our own futures. Imagine that!

The elderly person should always have what they need, first, out of their own assets. I agree totally. Their assets are to care for them...but part of their well being is HAVING someone care for them, and, well, somebody has to get paid. Might as well be us since we're the ones doing the job...and it's the hardest...and sometimes most revolting...job we'll ever do.

Yes, my mom should pay me well for cleaning her messes...and her....and all the other endless duties involved that kept me running all day and half the night.... yes, indeed...

I'm neither saint nor martyr. I'm just looking at reality. I wasn't self sacrificing when I came in here. I fully expect to walk away after all these years with some kind of nest egg that's going to keep me off the street, thanks.

Years ago,when my Grd parents passed,the house went to their 3 children,1 of them,being my mom.One of her brothers,after receiving a rather large check from my mom,wanted her and his brother,to pay him for his share of the house or get out.Both my mom and her brother were bedridden.My mom hired an attorney,who stated that the money the other brother received was his payment,or he could return it to my mom,as it was nowhere stated she was to give him the money.He then proceeded to request that my mom pay him for one third of everything in the house,from the microwave to the hospital bed she was in.He was determined to sell the house,and where,my mom,her brother and I ,as the caregiver,to both,was to leave.Back to the attorney,and the money he got prior.He was ordered to give the money back or sign his share over.He finally signed his share over to my mom,who then all involved,signed over to me.We never heard from her brother,even after my mom passed away.He and his family did nothing,for his own mother,brother or sister,yet wanted money to buy his daughter a car.All this came about,1 day after my Grd parents funeral,after he stated to everyone,that he wanted nothing to do with the house.

My brother and I, 2 of 6 kids, financially took care of Dad and step-mom when they ran out of money for daily expenses. Dad's elder-dare attorney drafted reverse mortgages for the funds we were contributing, to be returned to us from home sale proceeds if there were any. We ended up getting about $13K each of the over $45K each we'd contributed. We were willing to get nothing back, but we, as well as Dad and sibs felt this was fair. We ended up selling house contents not wanted by Dad after step-mom died and even all of us paid for things we wanted, with proceeds going to Dad's credit card debt.

Before my father got really bad with his dementia he did his living trust. I had been the only one in the family that paid any attention to him, help him, etc. He left everything to me so there will be no issue of who gets what. Additionally, if you end up going through all their assets and then have to place them on Medi Cal, Medi Cal may try to take their IRA's. Medi Cal may be entitled to some of the left over assets, such as IRA's, when the person passes away. So if possible I would consider cashing out any assets that Medi Cal may be entitled to and keep your loved one in a good assisted living, instead of placing them on Medi Cal where most likely they would have to be placed in a Medi Cal skilled nursing facility.

There needs to be public education, and law school education, about the monetary value of caregiving work, like the value of being a stay at home mom. It is amazing how our society, whose history derives from male experiences in the world of leadership on the large scale and considers this "the important stuff" ignores the work it takes to provide ongoing care for fragile beings with developmental changes - like young children, disabled individuals, and elders - who do best when they have access not to a fragmented professional system, but oversight or care by someone familiar, knowledgeable about their history and context, someone kind, alert, coordinating changing needs, making sure they are met. The legal processes around wills seem derived from days when husband brought in all the finances that supported family at home, taking the maintenance of a stable home for granted.

I don't think it should be either/or, dividing equally or all to a caregiver. Many men feel they have contributed most of their income to provide stability for a family already, so they believe that all children regularly give some contribution to family, women give time, men give money. Many parents write their wills based on these past assumptions, not planning for a period of many years in some cases, where one child will provide the lion's share of their care, depleting their own involvement in society and the workplace where they might be building retirement money for themselves.

So many parents are in denial about the amount of care they will need, for they are slow to realize they will need care over time. It makes sense to me, to give something to every child, yes. Maybe with half the estate. The rest should be flexible, with varied reasons. Including an expandable caregiver allotment that explicitly considers not just physical expenses but time.

My aging Mother lives next door to my sister. My sister, admittedly does nothing to help my Mother. I drive 15 miles one way, twice per week, to do what I can. My Sister will not even phone my Mom to check on her....but I can bet you, when Mom passes, she'll be there with her hand out for her 50%.... is there anything I can do?

I'm afraid not... The decision is entirely up to your mother. This type of situation is very prevalent among families. Who gets what when a parent dies when multiple siblings are involved can tear a family apart. I don't know what your relationship is with your sister, but I would suggest that she check up on her mother occasionally, regardless of the inheritance proceeds. Most parents, regardless of who does the most for them in their golden years, split the proceeds equally. Don't let this issue alienate you from your sister.

What if you have volunteered to care for a parent. What if you have tried to be part of a parent's life and they just treat you like Cinderella? What if you have done everything you can to be included in "The Loop" so to speak, and they keep secrets from you. What if your brother wants the entire estate and is making sure you do not get too close to it.

Who deserves it then?

No one "deserves" an estate. It is a gift from someone who at death is fortunate to have assets left. Then, the decedent is the one who decides who gets the gift. This is why I feel that the children who provide care during the parents' lifetime should be compensated at the time the care is provided. Unfortunately, that rarely happens.

Oh but akdaughter, according to some on this site, they certainly believe they "deserve" it above all others.

There are so many different situations and different relationships. I personally hope my mother spends every last penny on herself. Hell, she never spent a penny on her children. Why change at the end?

Live & Learn!! My husband & I got screwed in regards to my MIL estate, you can be dam sure it's not going to happen with my Mother...

When my husband passed away, the lawyer said everything was mine. one of my Grand daughters insisted that Papa promised his car to her. But the form he typed in the computer said to sell the car and pay off his medical bills. That's what I did and now I'm the bad Mom/Grandmother. I even get people stalking me on Facebook to defend them. It's sad that when someone dies, people fight over what they had. So sad. When my Dad died, we bought some of his shop tools from my Mom, didn't expect them for free.

We had a wonderful experience as siblings when we gathered to address what furniture would be divided after my mother died. (The money was handled by her wishes, and there were disagreements and feelings about that - little understanding of the monetary needs of any family members who gave care - that is an aspect which really needs more attention and prior discussion).

But - but for the furniture, it was unexpectedly a very cool process. We all assembled, except for the oldest brother who stayed away, fearing endless arguments, and my older disabled sister - but at least she left a list of what she wanted, and we all made sure to try to respect her wishes. What worked was our process, which I was pleased to help set up. My brothers wanted to divide stuff mathematically, by value and by turn taking.

I said no, that process is incomplete and likely will create bad feelings, for it leaves us in the dark about what each other wants. I wanted a piece of antique furniture, but it could be one piece or another - but I heard my sister in law say that she was very eager for the dining room table, which would fit into their new condo. I realized that if I knew in advance what she wanted, I'd choose any other antique piece, if my choice came up first. So my younger brother, clever fellow, came up with a process that included both communication and boundaries. For one hour beforehand, we each went around the house, and make a list of what we hoped to receive. Then we gathered in the living room together, and each person read their list - with NO discussion.

Once we heard each list, we moved into the mathematical process, each person drawing a number and making a choice. What we all found fascinating, was that we found ourselves not just rooting for our individual wants, but also trying to choose so that the wishes of the others were met too. So, when my choice preceded my sister in law's, I chose the armoire, happy to have any of the nice antiques. I might have chosen the table - but knowing my sister in law's wishes, I chose an armoire instead.

Each list had been surprisingly different in emphasis. One brother who kept the house, wanted all the outside furniture - my sister in law also hoped for jewelry for her daughters, where I had no use for that, I just wanted some furniture. Hearing the different interests, helped us learn more about each other in our different adult lives, as we each read our lists, we supported each other in the process - all finished up in 2 hours, went out happily to eat, surprising everyone, especially oldest brother who did not come.

Later, turned out he DID have a key wish, which he had not shared - and it turned out to be the same armoire that I had chosen - he had actually bought it for my mother, and helped to refinish it. So I sold it to him later, disappointed, for I can tend to jump into care-taking anyone except myself - but that is my risk to solve. Overall I was proud of how the process had gone, and happy with most of the things, and my house was a small one, and was OK without the tall armoire - I ended up with a couple of smaller extra pieces that I love.

In my opinion, if the caregiver is able to receive compensation for attending to the parent, then they should receive compensation while their parent is alive. To take care of someone 24/7 alters your life. I now cook foods that I never had to cook before. I now travel 20 miles into town more often than I ever had to before. I now have lost ½ of my income because I am unable to do my work anymore because the time is occupied with taking care of my mother and dealing with Medicare, prescriptions, delusions, showers, etc.. Those are things that none of my siblings are doing. If I can be compensated for my expenses rather than having to pay someone to come in and do it at my mother’s home, then why shouldn’t I? Yes, I take care of my mother because I volunteered to do it. None of my other siblings are willing to do it at this point in her dementia disease. I didn’t want her to end up near one of them because they didn’t care enough to visit or call while she was at her house, one of my brother’s house, or now my house. Why would I think they would care enough to check on her once she goes into a memory care facility? They wouldn’t. I had one tell me “just call me when mom dies I don’t want to hear any updates”. He will be the first one to start arguing over what he gets from her household goods.
We set up my mom’s trust so that all 9 living siblings will divide up her assets when she passes away. It will be very interesting when all of this goes down. Sometimes I would like to just say, put everything in a warehouse (her stuff is in storage) and take what you want. But, since my sister and I are executors of the trust I can’t very well do that. It would be nice though.
By the time she passes there won’t be any cash to argue over, but there will be a household full of antique furniture and collectibles. All of which everyone has their eyes on. I really don’t want to be a part of it but feel that if I am not then I will be the one that they come after if they have issue with anything. It’s a no-win situation for me.

I do guarantee that once my mom passes, and everything is divided up, I won’t be seeing any of them again.
I want my life back.