RDH - First - good for you getting her moved, leave her there. Second, 4 little words: Lie to your Mom. I don't want to be harsh but you're making things really difficult for yourself and it's all because you want to be a good daughter. You want to respect your mother and be honest but that's not working and it won't work with her ever again. Your mother is no longer in her right mind; you cannot reason with her. She will never see things clearly again. When she asks about her house and all it's contents tell her that you're boxing it up so it's better organized, washing it - what ever - that it's there in case she wants it. Don't tell her about selling anything ever again.
If she wants cash - give her $200 in $1 & $5's and tell her to hide it in her room. Tell her that all her monthly income goes to pay her rent at the assisted living center. Tell her that "they" don't want residents to keep money in their rooms. Do not ever let her have a check book or charge card. If she has TV or phone that are paid by YOU - tell her those are included in the rent and then have all bills sent to yourself.
At some point we can no longer be honest with our elders, especially if they have dementia or alzheimers. It only serves to confuse and agitate them even more. We move from being a child to being their care giver and it's a really difficult shift to make, it's painful, it doesn't feel natural but it's necessary. As long as you're honest with your family, ensuring that your mom has the best care possible, that all her funds go to make her safe and as healthy as possible - then it's all you can do. I hope you can learn some way to communicate with your mom - it will all be up to you, she can't understand - so that you can share some laughter and loving moments. It's hard but lieing to her will help - it will make her feel like things are all just fine and you'll be less stressed. Best of luck to both of you.
Here's some more info on my mom. She included the power of attorney in her living trust naming me as the executor. I was able to get her (via her original primary care doctor) to a psychiatrist to check on her memory a few times, but then my mom got wise and kept saying "I'm not stupid! You think I'm nuts - I'm not going back there again." She refuses to take the meds the psychiatrist gave her to help her memory. I was able to obtain a letter from the psychiatrist indicating that she is in dementia and early stages of Alzheimers. Her primary doctor had a stroke (the one who also thought my mom had Alzheimers) and retired before I could get a letter from him and the new doctor doesn't want to commit in writing. He says he hasn't seen her enough but I think it's just a matter of not wanting to be the one to allow the power of attorney to commence - not getting involved. She's always on her good behavior when with him and it's a struggle for her to keep her stories straight with him but he just doesn't get it. Her thyroid doctor also sees what's happening with her inability to reason or remember to take her other medication for her thyroid and wrote a letter to her primary care doctor, who has ignored it. In the meantime, although the State of California recognizes one qualified doctor/psychiatrist letter to enact the POA, her bank requires two letters from different doctors. The letter from the thyroid doctor isn't recognized by the bank. I've been very successful with other accounts she has (phone company, electric company, medicare, etc) in acknowledging the one letter and the signed power of attorney document that my mom signed when she created in. I'm on her bank account and have written checks to the bills she insists on paying herself but never does...after they are very late and notify me. She is in total denial, thinks I'm stealing her money but right now my hands are tied as far as the bank because my mom refuses to go to another doctor other than her primary care doctor and the thyroid doctor. For the last 5 years my mom has been a hoarder in her two story house (nothing dead or garbage) just lots of STUFF. She had 20 brand new portable tv's buried under 100's of new clothes that she bought - most still with new tags on them. Many many other new and slightly used items. New cd player in the box. She didn't want to open it up and use it because someone would break into her house and steal it. There was a path through the house to the bathroom. If you've ever watched Hoarders on tv, you get the picture. I took pictures and showed them to her primary care doctor showing him how she was living. Didn't phase him. We were able to convince her last year to move to a senior complex (not assisted living) where she has regained her weight (she was down to 98 pounds, now up to 115) and make a lot of new friends. She agreed to sell her house, reluctantly as she'd been in for 60 years and I understand that was a hard decision. So for the last 6 months I have been cleaning out her house, brought it all to my house which has a very very large yard area, and had a 3 day estate sale last weekend. When she asked me where I took all of her stuff, I told her I had a huge sale, made lots of money to help pay for the repairs on the house, etc. and she wanted that money RIGHT NOW, it's HER money and I was stealing it from her. Trying to explain where the money was going was like talking to a wall - and I know that trying to rationalize with someone with dementia is futile (much like the Borgs on Star Trek who told Jean Luke Picard that his efforts to crush them was futile for those of you who are trekkies like me). I'm 63, recently unemployed, so fortunately I had the time to get her house emptied. My husband has been very supportive, but it has put a strain on our marriage - thank goodness he's such a wonderful man. My adult son has also been helping me but my mom doesn't trust anyone so anything anyone says to her she thinks they're out to get her money.
So there's my story. Many of the dementia/Alzheimers sites give you what should be great advice, but unfortunately, they all say
Does she have a neurologist? If not they could evaluate her and write a letter.
I had my mother's neurologist do this and he wrote up a notarized statement saying she was no longer competent to conduct her business in a business like fashion. Her primary care doctor did the same thing.
One more thing, stop letting the bills go to her and have them sent to you so that you pay them directly signing the checks with your POA. If the CA state law only requires one letter then in my opinion that bank is breaking state law by asking for more. I would ask the lawyer who wrote the trust up for your mother about this.
Her first primary care doctor wanted her to go to a neurologist, but her Secure Horizons under Medicare would do it...said she needed to see a psychiatrist.
I'll check on the bank and the two letters, but I think banks are exempt.
Some how you have to get her away from the checkbooks the bottom line is she is not responsible the bank does not care the sooner the money is gone the happier they will be you might want to apply to medicaide and let them find out where her money is going they will be sorry they did not co-operate with the family is there a local TV station who would do a story on this that bank will suffer very much get in touch with your local DA or state DA they would relish this spread the word every way you can about the scam and fraud being played out we have to protect those who can no longer help themselves.
Hi! , Your story could be my story! Suspicious Mother in denial of her memory loss, thinks I want to steal her money, won't let me do anything, hoards stuff, buys tons of stuff she doesn't need or already has, piles of new clothes never worn, etc. She fell and broke her hip a couple of months ago and while she was in hospital and rehab center for about 6 weeks, I cleaned up her house. Recycled tons of catalogs and other junk mail, containers from food, jars and bottles, etc., threw out old, useless stuff; put alike things together in few boxes instead of lots of boxes partially filled, etc. Cleaned, washed, scrubbed. You get the picture. Of course now she wants to know where I put everything! Good thing I have a memory. I wanted to tell you how you can handle her bills. Have them automatically deducted from her checking or savings account. Even charge cards can be paid automatically. You just have to have all of her account numbers. You can even do this online. Since your name is on her accounts, set up an online account access and sign up for auto bill pay that way or through each individual utility, etc. It will take 2 - 3 months to start but then it's smooth sailing after that... unless your Mom closes that account! She might even like the idea of her bills being paid automatically. No late charges and the payments will appear on her bill copies or she can check them online anytime. Also can have her pension or social security check go to that account automatically so you will know that there are always funds available. If she has more than one account in the same bank, you can go online and transfer funds from one account to another. This was a miracle for me! My Mom doesn't know that I am keeping track of her expenditures this way, but it is for her own safety and well-being! Good luck!
I'd go with the primary care doctor's suggestions and take her to the neurologist. Evidently Secure Horizons does not know that psychiatrists deal with mental illness and dementia is not a mental illness but a loss of brain function which a neurologist is far more qualified to determine.
I could not imagine that banks would be exempt from state laws concerning action on a durable POA.
It is so hard to deal with these situations. While working with a current attorney, he tells me of some scenarios that sometimes those that even have a POA take advantage of an elderly parent in the name of "caregiving" so it is an uphill battle all the way.
All I can tell you is that in my case, God provided the way. Mom is still somewhat independent, although living in an assisted facility, but I have a durable POA which means I can watch over her decisions to make sure everything is on the up and up, but I also have the power to do something when necessary.
I have all mail forwarded to me (so parent's do not get scammed). I bring them legit mail. I write all their bills so dad (with Alzheimer's does not tear up checkbook). I ask mom if she wants a record of all her accounting and taxes. She chooses whether she wants to see it or not.
I give her the choices financially with all the information, then I do it her way. Sometimes with scams I have to protect her a bit, but its not too bad.
You need to work as a team with doctors, and any other support staff. Do not alienate, but provide facts and in my world I play "a bit dumb" to get them to come to decisions or suggestions. Works really well.
But perhaps if you sit with your father/mother and discuss all options and consequences, maybe you will find a different result. Sometimes you may have to be more fierce in your protection of our loved ones, but it might be a lot less fighting if you treat them with the dignity prior to their illness.
In reading your story, it sounds extremely stressful and complicated. However, it sounds as though you are doing everything as well as you can. If you have a joint account with your mother, you should be able to monitor her accounts without a full POA. Do you have a personal account with that bank? If so, you might be able to transfer funds for "safe keeping" and treat it as a "escrow" account. Does your mother have credit cards? If so, can you turn them off?
Now that she is in an assisted living facility/senior complex, have you seen the hoarding behavior subside? IF getting the second doctor's statement is still a goal, have you consulted with your mother's senior complex? I am not familiar with California law, but I would guess that the complex has a social worker on staff and possibly a geriatrician on call.
One last thought: Alzeihmer's and Dimentia can have some extremely unpleasant sides to them. Just because your mom accuses her of stealing your money, does not mean that deep down inside somewhere in a part of her you will never again see that she does not appreciate everything you are doing. As hard as this is to share, sometimes you've got to just let things roll off your back. Decide what you are willing to accept (even if it sucks, is not in your mom's best interest, etc.) and what you are willing to invest extreme energy to impact. Know you are a good daughter and that your love will not be for naught. A nurse once told me that no act of kindess or compassion goes unnoticed, even if it seems that way in the moment.
If she wants cash - give her $200 in $1 & $5's and tell her to hide it in her room. Tell her that all her monthly income goes to pay her rent at the assisted living center. Tell her that "they" don't want residents to keep money in their rooms. Do not ever let her have a check book or charge card. If she has TV or phone that are paid by YOU - tell her those are included in the rent and then have all bills sent to yourself.
At some point we can no longer be honest with our elders, especially if they have dementia or alzheimers. It only serves to confuse and agitate them even more. We move from being a child to being their care giver and it's a really difficult shift to make, it's painful, it doesn't feel natural but it's necessary. As long as you're honest with your family, ensuring that your mom has the best care possible, that all her funds go to make her safe and as healthy as possible - then it's all you can do. I hope you can learn some way to communicate with your mom - it will all be up to you, she can't understand - so that you can share some laughter and loving moments. It's hard but lieing to her will help - it will make her feel like things are all just fine and you'll be less stressed.
Best of luck to both of you.
So there's my story. Many of the dementia/Alzheimers sites give you what should be great advice, but unfortunately, they all say
I had my mother's neurologist do this and he wrote up a notarized statement saying she was no longer competent to conduct her business in a business like fashion. Her primary care doctor did the same thing.
I'll check on the bank and the two letters, but I think banks are exempt.
She fell and broke her hip a couple of months ago and while she was in hospital and rehab center for about 6 weeks, I cleaned up her house. Recycled tons of catalogs and other junk mail, containers from food, jars and bottles, etc., threw out old, useless stuff; put alike things together in few boxes instead of lots of boxes partially filled, etc. Cleaned, washed, scrubbed. You get the picture. Of course now she wants to know where I put everything! Good thing I have a memory.
I wanted to tell you how you can handle her bills. Have them automatically deducted from her checking or savings account. Even charge cards can be paid automatically. You just have to have all of her account numbers. You can even do this online. Since your name is on her accounts, set up an online account access and sign up for auto bill pay that way or through each individual utility, etc. It will take 2 - 3 months to start but then it's smooth sailing after that... unless your Mom closes that account! She might even like the idea of her bills being paid automatically. No late charges and the payments will appear on her bill copies or she can check them online anytime. Also can have her pension or social security check go to that account automatically so you will know that there are always funds available. If she has more than one account in the same bank, you can go online and transfer funds from one account to another. This was a miracle for me! My Mom doesn't know that I am keeping track of her expenditures this way, but it is for her own safety and well-being! Good luck!
I'd go with the primary care doctor's suggestions and take her to the neurologist. Evidently Secure Horizons does not know that psychiatrists deal with mental illness and dementia is not a mental illness but a loss of brain function which a neurologist is far more qualified to determine.
I could not imagine that banks would be exempt from state laws concerning action on a durable POA.
All I can tell you is that in my case, God provided the way. Mom is still somewhat independent, although living in an assisted facility, but I have a durable POA which means I can watch over her decisions to make sure everything is on the up and up, but I also have the power to do something when necessary.
I have all mail forwarded to me (so parent's do not get scammed). I bring them legit mail. I write all their bills so dad (with Alzheimer's does not tear up checkbook). I ask mom if she wants a record of all her accounting and taxes. She chooses whether she wants to see it or not.
I give her the choices financially with all the information, then I do it her way. Sometimes with scams I have to protect her a bit, but its not too bad.
You need to work as a team with doctors, and any other support staff. Do not alienate, but provide facts and in my world I play "a bit dumb" to get them to come to decisions or suggestions. Works really well.
But perhaps if you sit with your father/mother and discuss all options and consequences, maybe you will find a different result. Sometimes you may have to be more fierce in your protection of our loved ones, but it might be a lot less fighting if you treat them with the dignity prior to their illness.
In reading your story, it sounds extremely stressful and complicated. However, it sounds as though you are doing everything as well as you can. If you have a joint account with your mother, you should be able to monitor her accounts without a full POA. Do you have a personal account with that bank? If so, you might be able to transfer funds for "safe keeping" and treat it as a "escrow" account. Does your mother have credit cards? If so, can you turn them off?
Now that she is in an assisted living facility/senior complex, have you seen the hoarding behavior subside? IF getting the second doctor's statement is still a goal, have you consulted with your mother's senior complex? I am not familiar with California law, but I would guess that the complex has a social worker on staff and possibly a geriatrician on call.
One last thought:
Alzeihmer's and Dimentia can have some extremely unpleasant sides to them. Just because your mom accuses her of stealing your money, does not mean that deep down inside somewhere in a part of her you will never again see that she does not appreciate everything you are doing. As hard as this is to share, sometimes you've got to just let things roll off your back. Decide what you are willing to accept (even if it sucks, is not in your mom's best interest, etc.) and what you are willing to invest extreme energy to impact. Know you are a good daughter and that your love will not be for naught. A nurse once told me that no act of kindess or compassion goes unnoticed, even if it seems that way in the moment.
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