Elderly Mother refusing to social distance and stop having people in her house.

I should stop trying to explain, and stop going to her house.

I'm not being flippant - I genuinely can't see what else you can do. I also can't see what your mother needs you to be there for, seeing as she has all the little helpers she seems to want.

Besides. Unless you have a really, really good reason to be in somebody's house, you shouldn't be entering it anyway.

Sounds like there is a little cognitive decline here.

Do you have the phone number of the helper? If so, I would call her and tell her she needs to take every precaution she needs to to keep Mom safe. Thats washing her hands when she comes into Moms house. Keeping her coat and items away from Moms. Wearing a mask. And allowing No One into the apt and that means her husband. Because he is still working, he is a risk to your mother. If this helper is from an agency, call them and tell them Mom is being put at risk because of the husband. To please have helper stop allowing husband in and she is to be abiding by all precautions.

Now for you and family. You should not be entering Moms apt. You all should be staying at home. Only going out when in need of food or excercize. If Mom needs anything, you leave it outside her apt door.
Not sure why people don't understand what "stay in place" means. Can't do much about Mom. But u can protect your family.

Unless your mother has dementia she’s free to make her own choices, even those considered bad ones. You don’t have to participate in them. If she wants helpers and they are all comfortable with it, then let it be. Take care of your own family and leave mom to it

I think your insights are good, and you summed it up with this observation:

"It is like she is just trying to ignore everything that is happening and enjoys get me riled up about it."

She wouldn't be the first to ignore the dangers, and she's certainly not the only one.    There are people who are much more defiant than she is.    But that doesn't justify the attitude.

Sometimes just being frank and saying something to remind her that it's her life she's exposing, and her life that's in danger if she does contract the virus, and that you wouldn't even be allowed to visit her might help her to recognize the dire situation in which we're all in.

OTOH, some people need to push themselves to defy reality, as if they're not able to recognize that we all live finite lives and none of us are beyond exposure.

You might try that attitude, that she's making her own decisions and will be responsible for her own care if she becomes infected, then back off and see if she changes.   She may just enjoy the attention she gets from provoking you.

But I would be concerned if she doesn't have her final papers and wishes documented in an appropriate Will.    W/o being callous, my understanding is that DNR orders aren't necessarily required for CV patients as hospitals are already at the point of having to triage patients in terms of life and death.

I would say that as long as she refuses to social distance she is very much at risk and you should tell her you will not be seeing her, as she puts you at risk. Sorry. They say by the new Iceland studies that as many as 50% of us show NO symptoms and are merely carriers. She may not have the mental capacity at present to absorb what is happening in her world, but she is at risk by her behavior, and seeing her puts others at risk.

I was talked with an old friend the other day. Her dad lives in NJ and is in his 70s. He is goi g out shopping every day because "I like fresh bread". She loves in Texas. I told her that she can't stop a competent person from making really bad decisions.

I would not endanger myself by going to see her.

We have a client we should be shielding. NOBODY should be setting foot over her threshold without a clinical or substantial personal care justification. There isn't one. I was sent to her house several times this week, and by day 3, when I was in a cold sweat at the thought of infecting her on the pretext of emptying her bedside commode (this lady cleans her own bathtub, vacuums her stair carpet and changes her bedlinen - slowly, but she does), I told my bosses I could not feel justified in being in her house. We are doing *nothing*.

Review Officer went to see her next day with a view to ending service. Problem: client insists she needs one call a day. As she herself told me yesterday: our visits make her feel safe. In vain did I explain to her that, on the contrary, we are putting her at risk. "Just knowing you're coming" she said, gives her peace of mind. I suggested a phone call instead. Her family already does that.

She has anxiety. She has angina. Angina causes anxiety, anxiety causes angina. If ending service stresses her out so badly that when the paramedics are called her bp is up around 190 systolic (today) ...

What the heck are we to do?

Quarantining works, for sure. In fact it's a no-brainer - as long as *all* you have to consider is disrupting the spread of this virus. Not every exceptional case is as extreme as this one, either. Before long we will have to consider the unintended consequences of quarantining in more depth.

My mom has 4-5 paid helpers coming every week; all still well, all still coming. She refuses to consider stopping any of them; in fact, could not manage without a couple of them. I can't do the stuff for her; in fact I'm at risk myself, and a risk for her, since my husband is EMS. Another extreme case....

I'd likely consider if I wanted to go full in and try to get the ability to make decisions for her. Is she competent? You might consult with an Elder Law attorney to see what proof you need and how much it costs, process, etc. and determine if you wish to go that route. It sounds like she's just using poor judgment and that might be something she has the right to do. I'd likely let her make those decisions, as you can't control her, but, I'd inform her that you nor anyone from your household will be visiting in person. Just phone calls and facetime. I wouldn't risk it. It's too serious to take chances like that. It's sad, but, I'd work on accepting that she might not stay safe, and if she gets sick, I would let professionals handle it.

Either she is purposely ignoring you as you say or she isn’t capable of understanding it at this time. The fact remains that it simply doesn’t matter.

It is extremely frustrating for you. I get that but you shouldn’t go see her. You know this. You acknowledge this. You don’t have any problem understanding the situation yourself. She is the one with the problem. Leave it there. Let it go. Don’t make it your problem any longer. You are wasting your breath and upsetting yourself.

Can you think of anyone else that could speak to her that she may possibly listen to? Can you type up a letter with a warning that looks official and would scare her? Or would she ignore that too?

We have had on the net a table that shows the death rates per age group. I couldn’t find it just then, but will look again if you want and haven’t got it. The death rates for over 80s are getting towards double for over 70s, and over 70s are much higher than any lower age group. It shocked us in our 70s, and it might make your mother think again. If you can find it, print it out and tape a copy showing inwards on a window and outwards on her front door.

You can't "make" another person take precautions. However, you can protect yourself and your family. Wear a facemask when you must see your mother. Limit your interactions to the absolute minimum. Wash your hands frequently and take a good bath after out. Since your mom is independent, keep your distance and talk to her mostly over the phone.

The timing of moving is not ideal but moving house is an essential thing & if it has to be done, just have to limit the risks she can. I certainly would need helpers to move house, couldn't do it alone.

Do you think she understands the severity of the situation? Is that the problem?

My folks still have carers making house calls (needed) & were still shopping too. We've had a few chats about minimising all the risks they can. Setting up deliveries where possible etc.

I get you would be worried for your Mother's safety, but am not clear why it endangers you, your wife or kids? You don't visit her. She doesn't visit you right? If so, stop now. Doesn't have to be a threat like 'stop this Mother or I won't see you'. Just "we are not visiting for a while. It's safer for ALL of us".

Serious denial. You need to stay away unless she wises up, and tell her why.
truth

You will just have to not visit and not help her to protect your own family.

It Sounds like she is still considered competent and is in control of her own affairs, be it with some help so there isn’t any real way to control her behavior. The only thing you can control is your behavior and your decisions about what risks you can and can’t take for yourself and your family (which of course includes your mom) sometimes we make decisions for our famailies that our parents don’t agree with or understand.

I would use some of the suggestions below to try and stress to her the possible ramifications of her decisions and certainly tell her what would make you feel more secure about her safety, I would also be very clear about what risks you are and aren’t willing to take for your own family and if that means not exposing yourself (and therefore your family) to her as long as she’s exposing herself to higher risk people so be it. Don’t present it as a threat in any way, in fact you could just say “oh Sally and her husband are coming to help? I guess I won’t come then, I really can’t justify that possible exposure to the kids. Maybe we can visit via Skype (or whatever virtual means) until it’s safer”. She’s making her decisions for herself and you are making them for yourself and family. When she makes suggestions or asks about you coming over for instance when the helper couple isn’t around tell her the CDC says virus can stay on surfaces and someone can carry the virus without being sick for 2 weeks so you need to wait until she has been quarantined for 2 weeks from them. Simply talk about the precautions you have decided to follow and how they apply to her, we are getting groceries deliver and always wearing a mask when we go out...and wear a mask around her always explaining that you don’t want to be the cause of her getting the virus... No confrontational and nothing that could be heard as condescending, just the information you have sifted through and recommendations you and your family have chosen to follow and of course those being enforced by your state.

Then here is probably the hardest part, you need to let go of the things you can’t control, let your mom take the risks she chooses to and follow through on what you need to do to protect the people you can. Just because she makes the choice to have her helpers come in doesn’t mean they are more important to her than you and your family or that she is willing to risk your families health, it may even be more that she doesn’t believe you will follow through with your need to stay away or her bubble makes her feel more secure than she should and she doesn’t see it as the risk you do “Mom knows best” which is part of the reason I stress giving her the facts as you know them and letting her come to her own conclusions not fighting her on it or trying to bend her to your way. Good luck, all you can do is the best you can under the circumstances, it will never be perfect! Stay well.

We cannot control what others do. This is a very hard lesson, but it is the truth. My cousin and I are preparing for the possibility of her brother passing away because he would not listen and now is trapped in Thailand when he should be here being treated for cancer that has spread. He is an adult and we have to respect his decisions, as much as we wish he would not have chosen as he has. In the same light, you must accept that your mother has made decisions that increase her risk, but she chooses them. You can go crazy trying to change her or accept her the way she is.

The statistics say that the swine flu was way worse than this. If she is fully informed then her decision is right for her. The real problem is that there is such a momentum of doom and gloom, it is impossible the have a back and forth conversation about this virus without being labeled a lunatic or denier.

derek333, when you think about it, the people coming to your Mom's house aren't social distancing themselves, either. They are just as much at fault.

I have just seen two young gentleman carrying a sofa up the walkway next to my house and into theirs. Or the house of one of them, anyway. Presumably the other one has just helped him fetch it from wherever he got it.

People are very good at fooling themselves about rules. "I will comply with social distancing rules because I am a good citizen and a responsible householder.* But it doesn't count if you really want your new sofa - that makes it perfectly all right to sit in a van for an hour with your buddy."

* I have trouble with this because he and his lady partner are so very, very young. To me they look like children.

It sounds to me like your mother is totally selfish and wants her way but she also appears to have dementia. It is sad but there is nothing on this earth YOU can do to stop her unless you are in the same room. She will never listen and continue to do harm and no one can make it end. Therefore, what I would do is make up YOUR mind that YOU and YOUR family will not no matter who she is or what happens to go near her - you MUST KEEP YOUR DISTANCE. If she is so stupid and needy to insist on her way and ignore things, same for her helpers, then walk away and let the chips fall where they will. It is better that way than you being exposed and possibly worse. Stay away - break the ties - except by phone. If you don't, you might not be here long. think of you and your own family. And when all this is over, you should place her where she is handled and cared for.

My mom is slowly declining from vascular dementia and still able to live by herself. I call her every day to see how she is doing and
I tell my mom the updated news every day. I say no when she calls me later and ask if I am going to the grocery store tomorrow. I tell her I just dropped your
groceries off today at your door but I will add it to my list for next week. Call me when you think of anything else you want added to it.

She is a sociaI bunny so I told her prior that I want to remain healthy and not coming in because you or your friends may have been exposed. I can't talk right now. I will call you later. I love you. Bye!

I hope and pray none of them get the virus but it may become a reality. Maybe then she will understand the severity and make the right choice for herself and others others. Until then I am staying firm on my boundaries.

She does not sound to be of lucid mind. What you can do is to protect yourself by not being near or around her.

What I do now and what we should all do, no matter where we go, is wear a mask if you have one, and gloves. It is very sad that there are still people (all ages) that really don't get or grasp what is truly going on, some of them not their fault. You have to protect yourself and your family, number one on your list. Maybe your mom needs to see you with a mask on, and bring her one too! Good luck. My sister and I finally convinced my 86 yr old dad to start wearing one 2 weeks ago! Be safe and God Bless