How old is he? If he has on-set Dementia he should no where be near an automobile. The Dementia medications also make one sleepy as well. Does he demand to drive? Can you perhaps suggest that you or someone else will drive him instead? Why does he feel the need to drive? I would go back to the DMV and express that he has this on-set Dementia and should not be driving. What would happen if a serious accident happened....worst case scenario someone was maimed or killed in the accident. Let us know....
Consider a consultation with a driver rehabilitation specialist. The American Occupational Therapy Association has great information for aging drivers at http://www1.aota.org/olderdriver/. They can help you find a specialist in your area.
There are many articles on the web pointing to the dangers frequently involved with elderly drivers. You may want to show some of these articles to him. If he is unaffected by the statistics, my guess would be that he shouldn't be driving at all.
When my parents moved from Connecticut into the addition we built for them they applied for new drivers licenses. All they had to do was take an eye test. They were in their late 80's at the time. I was shocked that it was so easy since I knew my mothers judgments were being compromised by health issues at the time.
My father took her for a test drive and she asked him where the brake was! He didn't want to be the "bad guy" so I took her license without regret and I hear about it frequently. It took her a long time to forgive me but I'm OK with that.
You may want to remind your husband that it's not about him. The safety of other people is what's involved. . on the road and on the sidewalks as we've all seen in news reports. You know your husband better than any DMV tester.
It always amazes me when people think my mother is just fine (she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease a few years ago). She gets energized around new people and that extra kick of adrenaline makes it appear that there's nothing wrong. It doesn't last long before she's back to using her walker and forgetting the name of the visitor. She's also a very good actress when it comes to saving her self image.
If you have children you could ask them to get involved in the decision.
We had this same situation. Doctor's are not the one's who will be held responsible in the event of an accident. Our family made the decision to have my dad stop driving because it was become problematic. No, there weren't any incidents or accidents. It was frightening to be with him in the car. He wasn't able to focus or pay attention (even for a short drive). Of course, it was difficult, but once we junked his car and told him that the doctor said.... he gradually became accepting of it. If anyone has even the slightest bit of hesitancy in letting their elderly parent drive, then take the keys. I can tell you that it isn't easy because now that independence is gone and someone will have to pick up the responsibility. Patience is key. Just think for a moment if you were no longer able to drive. It's difficult. You need to put safety in front of pride. I knew for me, I'd rather take on the extra responsibility of bringing dad whereever he wants to go rather than think about him crashing his car and getting seriously injured, or more importantly hurting someone else. I could never have lived with myself if that had happened. Again, roles reverse. I'd rather my dad be upset with me (which did occur for the first 6 months after we took the keys) than injure himself or an innocent person on the road. Also, just something else to think about. If you do nothing and knowingly are aware of the problems when your loved one is driving and an accident happens, the injured party can sue you and your father as well as the doctor who said that your parent was permitted to drive. The DMV should crack down on older drivers and anyone who is not driving safely (but that's another topic altogether). It is inconvenient, but necessary.
These are excellent posts. One thing to do is approach the elder armed with options. We have a senor van that goes the grocery stores, as well as many social events. There are cabs and even busses. The elder rightly sees a huge sense of independence being taken away, even if they rarely drive. They want to be able to just in case! But sometimes it has to be done.
If they are not able to safely drive, they must be stopped. Many people have had to take batteries out of cars or get the steering wheels locked. Determined elders can be tricky.
Some clinics have programs where people are screened mentally, examined physically and then taken out to drive under conditions where they likely would want to drive. If they are from a surrounding small town and only want to drive there, the instructor has them drive in an unfamiliar, but similar area. If they want to drive in the metro area, they must take the test in traffic. The passing or failure of this stringent exam is often a help to families who much go through this gut-wrenching transition of taking away the keys.
The Hartford (go to their site at www.thehartford.com and so some digging) has some good brochures and they may help the elders see the light.
Because senior citizens have a very powerful voting block, many states have very loose laws regarding license suspension. If your husband's physician was unable to pull it off, you have even less chance. In theory, the driver is supposed to surrender his license when he feels he can no longer drive safely LoL Most seniors--especially those who have been good drivers most of their lives--see driving as the last vestige of freedom and independence. Taking that away is like a death sentence. So you have to proceed with caution--especially where dementia is involved. Recommend the following actions: 1. Make sure there is only one set of keys for the car and know where they are at all times (hang them in the kitchen so he "won't forget" where they are) 2. When he decides he wants to go to the store, you or another member of the family should drive him without making a fuss. 3. If this does not work, learn how to disable the car so it won't start when he decides to go off alone. (Ask your mechanic if there is a device that makes this easy to do) 4. Remember that it is not the license or the car that create this problem--it is his need to be independent and mobile. Find safe ways to satisfy this need and the problem will solve itself.
Get the DMV to give him the written test. The driving skills test can be passed with muscle memory, the written one can't. It takes cognition, something your husband may not have enough of. If he fails, the issue is put to rest and you are not the bad guy. If he passes, ask them to give him the written and driving tests every 3 months.
CaroleLarkin, A couple of thoughts about your recommendation: 1) Why do you want to make the DMV the bad guy? It is not their job to enforce common sense. And if you were in this position and passed the first round would you really accept having to go back every 3 months? Sounds like harassment to me. What about people who are excellent drivers but poor readers or have dyslexia. Would it be fair to them to withhold their license on the basis of a written test alone? 2) The issue here is neither the license nor the vehicle. It is a person who wants to drive even when he knows he poses a danger to others. Yet from his perspective, he is much less dangerous than someone driving under the influence (DUI) or a teenager showing off. His wife and family know best how to handle him and are very much aware of the danger his driving poses. They are in the best position to handle the problem.
I will never forget this incident, perhaps some of you may remember it from the news:
Car Plows Into Crowded Santa Monica Farmers Market Thursday , July 17, 2003
An elderly man drove several blocks through a crowded farmers market Wednesday afternoon, killing nine people and injuring up to 45 pedestrians, 14 critically.
One of the fatalities was a 3-year-old girl, according to the Santa Monica Police Department.
Eight were pronounced dead at the scene and a ninth, a 50-year-old man, died at 9:36 p.m. at St. John's Hospital, said hospital spokeswoman Barbara Bishop.
Police said 15 victims were critically injured along three downtown blocks closed for the once-a-week market, transformed within seconds into a makeshift hospital morgue.
"It was like a hurricane just came down the center of the street," said Megan Sheehy, general manager of a nearby restaurant.
Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said 20 to 30 people had moderate or light injuries.
Butts said the 86-year-old driver told officers he couldn't stop. "His statement is that he possibly hit the gas instead of the brakes," he said.
Butts said the driver, identified by family members as Russell Weller of Santa Monica, was taken to a hospital for a blood test and initial results found no traces of alcohol or psychoactive drugs such as antidepressants and hallucinogens.
The driver was not arrested, but authorities were considering whether the case was "manslaughter of some type" and investigating whether he was qualified to drive, Butts said.
"There may be some negligence as to his capacity to drive safely," Butts said, although he added that the man has a valid driver's license.
The man left police headquarters by late afternoon. Walking unsteadily with a cane, he hugged and smiled at people who picked him up from the police station. He declined to comment to a reporter.
His family issued an apology Wednesday night.
"Mr. Weller and his family want to express their deepest sympathies to the victims and their families of the tragic accident," family attorney Jim Bianco said in the statement. "This was an unintentional and unfortunate accident. Mr. Weller is shaken up, but his thoughts tonight are with the victims and their families. "
Besides the child, the dead included five women and two men, coroner's official Juan Jimenez said. The unidentified bodies remained at the scene late in the day as the investigation continued.
Butts said he did not have an estimate of the car's speed. Witnesses said the red 1992 Buick was moving very fast along Arizona Avenue (search).
"Sixty miles per hour and it wasn't slowing down. It was flying. And then people down, dead and everything," said David Lang, manager of a shoe store along the market route.
"I heard a car just hit, bang, bang, bang," said Mojgan Pour, 38. "I heard people screaming. By the time I looked, I never even saw the car. I tried to help a man and he died while I was helping him."
David Leifer was shopping for tropical fruit when he heard someone scream, "Oh my God." He looked around to see a street full of bleeding, critically injured people.
He stripped off his shirt and used it to prop up the head of a badly cut woman, then grabbed some oranges to support her legs.
"I had blood all over me," Leifer said.
Bahram Manahedgi, 50, said one person was on the hood of the car when it finally came to rest, and a woman was crushed beneath it.
Manahedgi said that when he went to pull the driver out, "he was an old man. His eyes were open and he was alive. I said, 'Do you know what the hell you did?' He said, 'No.' I just opened the door, I pulled him out."
A crowd gathered around the car and "wanted to beat him up," Manahedgi said. "I said, 'He's an old man, leave him alone."'
Mary Roney, who has lived two doors from Weller and his wife for 30 years, said he has never had any trouble driving and she did not know of any health problems.
"A more careful, gentle, loving person you'll never find," Roney said. She described Weller as active in the community, including serving on a library board and tutoring students at Santa Monica High School.
The car was extensively damaged, including a smashed front end and windshield. What appeared to be shoes were on its roof.
The injured were treated on large orange dropsheets before they were taken to hospitals by ambulance or helicopter.
The avenue was strewn with tents collapsed around their twisted metal frames. Handbags and shoes littered the scene.
A baby stroller sat in the street. Jerry Farias, who had been selling potatoes and melons at the market, said he saw a woman snatch her child from the path of the speeding car. The woman was struck, and the child suffered a head cut, but neither appeared to have life-threatening injuries, he said.
The Wednesday market bisects Santa Monica's popular Third Street pedestrian promenade (search) and is near the famous Santa Monica Pier. It draws thousands of shoppers.
EZcare: The question was about dementia, not about others. Dementia suffers don't have cognition. That's why they cant pass it- not about eyesight or dyslexia. That's another answer. If he has dementia he won't remember being tested 3 months ago hence, it couldn't be harassment. Get up to speed on dementia- please! If the family felt they could have handled it they would have done so already. They wouldn't have written in. No one wants to anger their spouse, demented or not. Please! The difference between your answers are the difference between theory and reality. Enuff said.
Carole.....if you read the article I posted, that gentleman did not have dementia...it's just a matter of having the quick response behind the wheel, that we loose as we get older.
Are you advocating someone that has dementia can be safe? Many Dementia sufferer's cannot even live their lives at home without some help. Do you know of anyone in your life that has Dementia....? Can you base what you said on real facts?
"Get up to speed on dementia- please!"
Please read the following article from The Hartford http://www.thehartford.com/alzheimers/why_dementia.html
Why Driving and Demetia is a Difficult issue from the Hartford
Driving represents independence, competence and control. It's a way to access healthcare, buy necessities, be productive and stay connected to family, friends and the community. Concerns about driving often surface during the early stages of dementia when individuals are still independent and able to manage daily activities.
Not Like Common Changes in Later Life This disease is not like other changes in later life that affect driving, such as eyesight problems and slow reaction times. Many older adults who don't have dementia can assess their driving without family intervention and make gradual changes to the way they drive. And most are able to continue driving safely throughout their lives.
Changes in Persons with Dementia It's different for those with Alzheimer's Disease and other dementias. The progression of this disease is usually gradual and somewhat unpredictable. It affects cognitive functions critical to driving. Everyone with Alzheimer's Disease or other irreversible causes of dementia will eventually lose the ability to drive safely, due to problems with:
judgment multi-tasking slowed reaction times impaired spatial skills other cognitive deficits.
With dementia, an individual's capacity to assess his or her driving abilities may also diminish. People with dementia are especially likely to minimize the complexity of driving and overestimate their abilities. They may make excuses for their high-risk driving. Some common reasons people with dementia use to justify their continued driving include:
"Just because I got lost doesn't mean I can't drive." "I make sure I look where I'm going." "I've driven for years without an accident."
As driving and assessment skills decline, the risk of serious loss or injury increases. Caregivers must step in and assume the responsibility for monitoring and regulating the driving of the person with dementia.
Let us not lose sight of the original question, which was "My husband has dementia and is very insecure behind the wheel, so his psy wrote the DMV and asked them to test his driving skills. They passed him, what do I do now." Just being insecure behind the wheel is enough for me. He should not be driving. It is unsafe for himself and others! While is is difficult, being responsible is more important than hurting the feelings of someone who should not be driving. As I mentioned in my earlier post. Being in the car with my dad was frightening. He would make unsafe turns, not use his turn signals, pull out in front of other cars, drive too slowly, not come to complete stops, etc... While there are many drivers who do not have dementia that suffer from poor driving skills, for our family, I felt better taking the keys away from my father. Yes, he was angry! Very angry! We "used" his cataracts as a starting point. From there, it just progressed to the point where he was no longer driving. He was living on his own and it became difficult when he needed to run an errand or go to the doctor. But, that just comes with the territory. It is not an excuse saying "because the DMV passed him and gave him a license, meant that he was capable behind the wheel." Responsibility is key! The news article is eye-opening. I would absolutely never be able to live with myself if I knew that my father was driving and should not have been and an accident such as this occurred. The guilt would overcome me. We, as caregivers or family members need to take responsibility. Driving is a priviledge - not a right. Taking responsibility means that we take over the driving and running errands and such. Yes, it is sometimes becomes inconvenient. But I would much rather be inconvenienced than putting my father (and others) lives in jeopardy. The police, the DMV or anyone else is not responsible for monitoring elderly drivers. Trust me, my dad talked of nothing else for the first 6 months after his car was disposed of. That is all any of us heard. "I don't drink and drive, I don't do drugs, I never even got a ticket.!" Well, I explained it over and over again. After a while, Dad just became resigned to the fact that we were not going to let him behind the wheel. You need to balance allowing an elderly (dementia/alzheimer's) person a certain amount of independence without risking or endangering them (or others) to danger. As a caregiver, or a family member, you need to take responsibility before an accident occurs, or dad gets lost, etc... That means that you have to do the errands or bring them along. Yes, it sometimes is inconvenient. For me, I'd rather be inconvenienced than apologetic to a family member that was killed as a result of my dad's insecurity.
I bet it is difficult...I know I love the ability to drive. My mom has never driven in her life so that made it easy in one way for me, but for 10 years of playing taxi is not so fun either ;-).
tnmom, Be careful of those broad general statements. Unless you've experienced the difficulty of taking away the keys from a parent with a sterling driving record whose physician does not have the authority to direct the DMV to pull a license and you have no alternative arrangements for transporting your independent parent wherever and whenever he wants to go...well you get the picture. A drunk is not impaired 24/7 so a "designated driver" is a good option. And the DUI laws in most states are stringently enforced so the law is on your side when you take the keys away. It is not so with Dementia or even debilitating forms of mental illness.
Yes, I get the picture. My husband has dementia, and I do understand the implications of taking his keys away. I also have a grandchild that was killed by an impaired driver. It is my responsibility as a spouse to ensure that my husband does not bring harm to himself or some innocent party. I don't know the area where other persons live, however I have lived in several different states, and there is always public transportation, and most often senior services that will pick up and deliver seniors that cannot drive for whatever reason. I still see no excuse for allowing people on our highways that should not be driving.
There are many things involved in a man no longer being able to drive. I think it is harder for them... However my Mother is extremely independant and does not want to quit driving. At times she does not remember where she is going!!! I am serious it scares me, she is 82. In bad weather I use that as an excuse to take her to the store etc... I have tried to reason with her, she does not have the ability to reason anymore.
When my parents moved from Connecticut into the addition we built for them they applied for new drivers licenses. All they had to do was take an eye test. They were in their late 80's at the time. I was shocked that it was so easy since I knew my mothers judgments were being compromised by health issues at the time.
My father took her for a test drive and she asked him where the brake was! He didn't want to be the "bad guy" so I took her license without regret and I hear about it frequently. It took her a long time to forgive me but I'm OK with that.
You may want to remind your husband that it's not about him. The safety of other people is what's involved. . on the road and on the sidewalks as we've all seen in news reports. You know your husband better than any DMV tester.
It always amazes me when people think my mother is just fine (she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease a few years ago). She gets energized around new people and that extra kick of adrenaline makes it appear that there's nothing wrong. It doesn't last long before she's back to using her walker and forgetting the name of the visitor. She's also a very good actress when it comes to saving her self image.
If you have children you could ask them to get involved in the decision.
If they are not able to safely drive, they must be stopped. Many people have had to take batteries out of cars or get the steering wheels locked. Determined elders can be tricky.
Some clinics have programs where people are screened mentally, examined physically and then taken out to drive under conditions where they likely would want to drive. If they are from a surrounding small town and only want to drive there, the instructor has them drive in an unfamiliar, but similar area. If they want to drive in the metro area, they must take the test in traffic. The passing or failure of this stringent exam is often a help to families who much go through this gut-wrenching transition of taking away the keys.
The Hartford (go to their site at www.thehartford.com and so some digging) has some good brochures and they may help the elders see the light.
Carol
1. Make sure there is only one set of keys for the car and know where they are at all times (hang them in the kitchen so he "won't forget" where they are)
2. When he decides he wants to go to the store, you or another member of the family should drive him without making a fuss.
3. If this does not work, learn how to disable the car so it won't start when he decides to go off alone. (Ask your mechanic if there is a device that makes this easy to do)
4. Remember that it is not the license or the car that create this problem--it is his need to be independent and mobile. Find safe ways to satisfy this need and the problem will solve itself.
A couple of thoughts about your recommendation:
1) Why do you want to make the DMV the bad guy? It is not their job to enforce common sense. And if you were in this position and passed the first round would you really accept having to go back every 3 months? Sounds like harassment to me. What about people who are excellent drivers but poor readers or have dyslexia. Would it be fair to them to withhold their license on the basis of a written test alone?
2) The issue here is neither the license nor the vehicle. It is a person who wants to drive even when he knows he poses a danger to others. Yet from his perspective, he is much less dangerous than someone driving under the influence (DUI) or a teenager showing off. His wife and family know best how to handle him and are very much aware of the danger his driving poses. They are in the best position to handle the problem.
Car Plows Into Crowded Santa Monica Farmers Market
Thursday , July 17, 2003
An elderly man drove several blocks through a crowded farmers market Wednesday afternoon, killing nine people and injuring up to 45 pedestrians, 14 critically.
One of the fatalities was a 3-year-old girl, according to the Santa Monica Police Department.
Eight were pronounced dead at the scene and a ninth, a 50-year-old man, died at 9:36 p.m. at St. John's Hospital, said hospital spokeswoman Barbara Bishop.
Police said 15 victims were critically injured along three downtown blocks closed for the once-a-week market, transformed within seconds into a makeshift hospital morgue.
"It was like a hurricane just came down the center of the street," said Megan Sheehy, general manager of a nearby restaurant.
Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said 20 to 30 people had moderate or light injuries.
Butts said the 86-year-old driver told officers he couldn't stop. "His statement is that he possibly hit the gas instead of the brakes," he said.
Butts said the driver, identified by family members as Russell Weller of Santa Monica, was taken to a hospital for a blood test and initial results found no traces of alcohol or psychoactive drugs such as antidepressants and hallucinogens.
The driver was not arrested, but authorities were considering whether the case was "manslaughter of some type" and investigating whether he was qualified to drive, Butts said.
"There may be some negligence as to his capacity to drive safely," Butts said, although he added that the man has a valid driver's license.
The man left police headquarters by late afternoon. Walking unsteadily with a cane, he hugged and smiled at people who picked him up from the police station. He declined to comment to a reporter.
His family issued an apology Wednesday night.
"Mr. Weller and his family want to express their deepest sympathies to the victims and their families of the tragic accident," family attorney Jim Bianco said in the statement. "This was an unintentional and unfortunate accident. Mr. Weller is shaken up, but his thoughts tonight are with the victims and their families. "
Besides the child, the dead included five women and two men, coroner's official Juan Jimenez said. The unidentified bodies remained at the scene late in the day as the investigation continued.
Butts said he did not have an estimate of the car's speed. Witnesses said the red 1992 Buick was moving very fast along Arizona Avenue (search).
"Sixty miles per hour and it wasn't slowing down. It was flying. And then people down, dead and everything," said David Lang, manager of a shoe store along the market route.
"I heard a car just hit, bang, bang, bang," said Mojgan Pour, 38. "I heard people screaming. By the time I looked, I never even saw the car. I tried to help a man and he died while I was helping him."
David Leifer was shopping for tropical fruit when he heard someone scream, "Oh my God." He looked around to see a street full of bleeding, critically injured people.
He stripped off his shirt and used it to prop up the head of a badly cut woman, then grabbed some oranges to support her legs.
"I had blood all over me," Leifer said.
Bahram Manahedgi, 50, said one person was on the hood of the car when it finally came to rest, and a woman was crushed beneath it.
Manahedgi said that when he went to pull the driver out, "he was an old man. His eyes were open and he was alive. I said, 'Do you know what the hell you did?' He said, 'No.' I just opened the door, I pulled him out."
A crowd gathered around the car and "wanted to beat him up," Manahedgi said. "I said, 'He's an old man, leave him alone."'
Mary Roney, who has lived two doors from Weller and his wife for 30 years, said he has never had any trouble driving and she did not know of any health problems.
"A more careful, gentle, loving person you'll never find," Roney said. She described Weller as active in the community, including serving on a library board and tutoring students at Santa Monica High School.
The car was extensively damaged, including a smashed front end and windshield. What appeared to be shoes were on its roof.
The injured were treated on large orange dropsheets before they were taken to hospitals by ambulance or helicopter.
The avenue was strewn with tents collapsed around their twisted metal frames. Handbags and shoes littered the scene.
A baby stroller sat in the street. Jerry Farias, who had been selling potatoes and melons at the market, said he saw a woman snatch her child from the path of the speeding car. The woman was struck, and the child suffered a head cut, but neither appeared to have life-threatening injuries, he said.
The Wednesday market bisects Santa Monica's popular Third Street pedestrian promenade (search) and is near the famous Santa Monica Pier. It draws thousands of shoppers.
The question was about dementia, not about others. Dementia suffers don't have cognition. That's why they cant pass it- not about eyesight or dyslexia. That's another answer. If he has dementia he won't remember being tested 3 months ago hence, it couldn't be harassment. Get up to speed on dementia- please!
If the family felt they could have handled it they would have done so already. They wouldn't have written in. No one wants to anger their spouse, demented or not. Please! The difference between your answers are the difference between theory and reality. Enuff said.
Are you advocating someone that has dementia can be safe? Many Dementia sufferer's cannot even live their lives at home without some help. Do you know of anyone in your life that has Dementia....? Can you base what you said on real facts?
"Get up to speed on dementia- please!"
Please read the following article from The Hartford
http://www.thehartford.com/alzheimers/why_dementia.html
Why Driving and Demetia is a Difficult issue
from the Hartford
Driving represents independence, competence and control. It's a way to access healthcare, buy necessities, be productive and stay connected to family, friends and the community. Concerns about driving often surface during the early stages of dementia when individuals are still independent and able to manage daily activities.
Not Like Common Changes in Later Life
This disease is not like other changes in later life that affect driving, such as eyesight problems and slow reaction times. Many older adults who don't have dementia can assess their driving without family intervention and make gradual changes to the way they drive. And most are able to continue driving safely throughout their lives.
Changes in Persons with Dementia
It's different for those with Alzheimer's Disease and other dementias. The progression of this disease is usually gradual and somewhat unpredictable. It affects cognitive functions critical to driving. Everyone with Alzheimer's Disease or other irreversible causes of dementia will eventually lose the ability to drive safely, due to problems with:
judgment
multi-tasking
slowed reaction times
impaired spatial skills
other cognitive deficits.
With dementia, an individual's capacity to assess his or her driving abilities may also diminish. People with dementia are especially likely to minimize the complexity of driving and overestimate their abilities. They may make excuses for their high-risk driving. Some common reasons people with dementia use to justify their continued driving include:
"Just because I got lost doesn't mean I can't drive."
"I make sure I look where I'm going."
"I've driven for years without an accident."
As driving and assessment skills decline, the risk of serious loss or injury increases. Caregivers must step in and assume the responsibility for monitoring and regulating the driving of the person with dementia.
I see. We're cool. Sorry about your parents. These a damn tough diseases on the person who has it, their spouse, their kids, all of that.
Be careful of those broad general statements. Unless you've experienced the difficulty of taking away the keys from a parent with a sterling driving record whose physician does not have the authority to direct the DMV to pull a license and you have no alternative arrangements for transporting your independent parent wherever and whenever he wants to go...well you get the picture.
A drunk is not impaired 24/7 so a "designated driver" is a good option. And the DUI laws in most states are stringently enforced so the law is on your side when you take the keys away. It is not so with Dementia or even debilitating forms of mental illness.