My mom only gets $712 a month. I am currently unemployed- my mom did not want to stay in her own home anymore. My brother never moved out and made it miserable for her. She wanted to die there but in Feb. of this she wanted out. She has no savings and there is no equity in her home. Will she be able to use her soc. sec. income and medicare to go into a home. She has Alzheimer's.
I guess it depends on how old your mother is, if her money will last 2 or 3 years. Nursing homes are the most expensive of options I thought, can you move her into an adult foster care place, or even asst living? They might be cheaper, and therefore the money will last longer. Just a thought.
When her assets are gone social services will sign her up for medicaid. You might want to talk to the social worker at the facility she is living at. Most of the people who live in nursing homes are on medicaid.
My mom has been in a nursing home for - get this - TEN YEARS - !! Medicare and Medicaid pay all - and she has $92 per month left over from Medicare to use for her personal use.
Once mom's money is gone either family will pick up the bill or you will have to apply for Medicaid benefits.
However, spending down all of mom's money and then applying for Medicaid is, simply, bad advice.
What most families don't realize is that although Medicaid may save them from financial disaster, it does not pay for everything... particularly when it comes to items for the comfort of the patient/client.
You do not want your mother remaining in a nursing home without funds to augment what Medicaid will provide (what if mom needs glasses, dentures, hearing aides, clothing, special equipment, etc.?).
Moreover she will be permitted only $35 per month for personal expenses such as hair, etc.
I would advise that you do a search for "supplemental needs trusts" and "pooled community trusts" and learn about how this trust will allow:
1. Mom to qualify immediately for Medicaid. 2. Gift her remaining assets without penalty. 3. Preserve her assets for her own health, maintenance, and welfare. 4. Ensure quality of life while on Medicaid
Going to the social worker at the facility once her money is gone is the worst mistake you could possibly make.
She will be able to get medicaid and you can be sure the nursing home will apply for it well in advance so they will get paid -most nursing homes will let her stay and since the ones in our area are about 450 dollars a day anyone who is there for very long go through their money very fast and usually they can stay in the same place but might be moved to a different area of the facility so do not worry and once their money is gone the family does not have the burden of all the horrible paperwork they make anyone with assests to fill out.
Nursing homes can be quite costly---If your Mom is in a 'NOT-FOR-PROFIT' facility, you can ask the social worker how to apply for Medicaid....when she is eligible....if the facility is strictly 'for profit' you will probably have to find a place for Mom that would be best financially, as well as offer good quality of health care. I would start such a search sooner rather than later, by geting her name on a list after touring the facility.. Having been down this road in the past, there are options-so do not panic.
gifting I think is interogated by the IRS...going back 10 years. I wish REAL ADVICE WOULD REALLY BE GIVEN AT THIS WEBSITE FOR A CHANGE! What is the real information about the government paying for Nursing Homes...why is everything so secret...all of us pay into the system who have worked during our lifetime.
"Real Advice"? What would like advice on? I have not seen more information regarding elder care on any other site. What's really terrific is being able to interact with other caregivers to get what I would indeed call "real" advice from those who are enmeshed in the care giving world everyday. This is a great site and a great forum!
Sometimes it is true that the consequence of lots of input is that responses may not always be entirely accurate or may be just plain erroneous. This can, at times, throw someone trying to find answers off track.
That is why there are experts here to help
Case in point: Qualifying for public benefits has nothing to do with the IRS. Medicaid rules do now require that state agencies look at assets transferred in the past 5 years for those that were transferred after February 7, 2007.
You asked: "What is the real information about the government paying for nursing homes...why is everything secret". It is not that the information is secret; the problem is that the system is complex. Would it be great if it were streamlined and easier to access? Of course. But until that blessed day arrives I believe we must do the best we can with what we have and give each other the best advice possible.
Ralph, Your tip about "supplemental needs trusts" and "pooled community trusts" is right on. And your caution about going to the social worker is also true from my experience. Thank you for participating in this forum!
I found that going to medicare was not good because whoever you talked to gave a different answe and were very convincing they were right and whoever told you something else was wrong if they did not know the nswer they made something up I think you need an elder lawyer who knows the system but mine wanted me to declear bandrupecy even though it would ruin my credit and I decided to pay off my husband debts even thought it will take 5 yrs. whatever advice they give you have to decided what is best for you yourself.
Ralph, how about CONCISE information, not just tidbits of sentences..links, forms, real detail! As you can see I was not that far off about them investigating monies....well if they look 5 years back yeah then your hosed again. Do you not get what I am after information at your fingertips or folks who give real answers. This is all so frustrating for people who get thrown into this and you have to research everything yourself. Amazing simply amazing....!
I have to agree pirategirl. Our parent cannot gift without penalty, there is a 5 yr lookback, you're right. Also, spending down is the only way to become eligible for medicaid. I went to a lawyer and was told that is the best thing to do, as long as its spent on her care, which it is, then apply for medicaid. We are using all of my parents money from the sale of their home. IF we kept the house and got medicaid now, they would attach a lean to their home, collecting it in the end. Why not use it for GOOD daycare/homecare, and NOT nursing home care! Our parents don't owe us an inheritence, we owe them the best care available using their money for them FIRST. If there is any left, so be it, if not, apply for medicaid like all the other people who probably hide their money 5 years ahead.
Luvmom... I hope you did not pay the attorney you consulted a large fee because you did not, in my opinion, receive good advice. Planning for long-term care financing, particularly the notion of combing personal resources with public benefits, is legitimate, codified in law, and beneficial to the care recipient. Planning is not about "hiding money". Yes, it is true that it is not permitted to "gift" to entities in contemplation of applying for Medicaid. Any such gifting, with few exceptions, is subject to to the famed "five year look back". However there are several strategies that will provide additional funds to a Medicaid recipient while allowing them to qualify for and maintain benefits. Among them are: 1. The Personal Services Contract (aka "Personal Care Contract") 2. The Supplemental Needs Trust 3. A proprerly structured immediate annuity. With respect to the house, again you recieved inaccurate information. In most states the primary residence is consider an exempt asset for Mediciad qualification purposes. This is based on the notion of "intent to return" which is assumed in most states. Medicaid does not "attach a lein" to home when one qualifies for Mediciad. The only time the home may be "attached" is at the recipient's demise under a process known as "estate recovery". In most states estate recovery is only applicable to probate assets. If the title of the home is properly worded (search for "enhanced life estate deed" or "lady bird deed") the home will by-pass probate and therefore, (in most states) not be subject to Medicaid estate recovery. Here in the state of Florida the home can also remain an exempt asset if it is rented and the NET proceeds from the rental are used for the Medicaid recipient's cost of care. And again, if the home is properly titled, it will be exempt from recovery. From a moral or ethical point of view let me also mention that from my perspective after having worked with hundreds of families over the past ten years that purpose of Medicaid planning for the overwhleming majority is not to benefit heirs or circumvent public policy but, rather, to accomplish the goal you stated... to provide good care. For instance, funds transfered to the supplemental needs trust mentioned above allows the applicant to qualify immediately for benefits but for the monies transferred to it to be used for the health, maintenance, and welfare of the recipient. The money can be used to buy up to a private or "nicer" room for the Medicaid recipient, to purchase clothing and entertainment, to supplement medical and personal needs, etc. Any funds remaining in the trust upon the demise of the recipient must go back to the state for Medicaid reimbursement for cost of care before heirs recieve any residual from the trust (same holds true for the immediate annuity also mentioned above). The problem with not planning ahead, not using all of the tools at your disposal, and spending all of your parent's money first is that you then may NOT be in a position to provide for what you stated your goal was "...to provide the best care possible". Proper planning before or in crisis is best for the care recipient and is supported by sound public policy.
Very interesting, thank you for writing. I do have a personal care contract that the laywer and I made up and I signed as the DPOA. My Mom is incompetent. We sold her house and are using the money for her daycare, my caring, and for anything she needs. She got sick before any 5 year look back could have happened, so was this still indeed wrong? I went to 3 lawyers and a medicaid laywer. I live in NH, tell me more? Thanks
Hello,did this conversation end or can you answer my questions Ralph? I am assuming then, that my 3 laywers are correct and the money I spent was well worth it.
Ralph, thank you for this post! You mentioned a strategy I have in mind and for which I am seeing an elder law attorney next month. Now I feel comfortable the monies I will spend to see her will be a wise investment towards protecting both of my moms. Thank you, again. I feel much relieved!
My Mother has been in assislted living for over 4 years , that I have paid for.Just received a notice of a $400. a month raise in fee,am in a panic,cannot afford this anymore. Do I have any options? Will medicaid help? How do I go about finding out. Thanks for any input.
I am also TOTALLY lost .. My mom was put into a nursing home the middle of last month (April) and supposedly she was going to be under Medicare (she also has supplemental insurance).. that was 'supposed' to cover her stay for 20 days.. well, it is PAST 20 days & the nursing home has not contacted me for any of her banking info or saying she is going to be made Medicaid, etc. I get absolutely no discussion from them at all. My mom has her Soc. Sec. check & a pension check at the beginning of each month - this one for May is in there now.. will they take that money for her care or ? If they don't have her banking info - how will they do that? My mom still has bills that should be paid .. can I take her to her bank so she can withdraw money so I can pay them or should I not pay anything & leave all her $ in her account? I am so sick of dealing with this crap already it's not even funny. I have so much more going on to deal with myself.. a son with possible autism, another son w/ drug abuse, health issues of my own, working full time, husband who is a trucker & doesn't help out with anything .. I am ready to pack my bags, get in my car & drive off .. not look back.. I am over the top and still have no answers.. :o(
Lamkin I think it depends on the state my MIL did not qualify for medicaide when she had to be placed in a NH and they -the nursing home used her assests to pay for her care until she had spent down then they did all the legwork to get her on Medicaide-so since you have not heard from them with a bill she is probably on what the nursing homes in my state of NY call medicaide pending and they can get all the info they need from banks SS and pensions-they will get her pension so you may as well take that check to their office at the nursing home and then you will probably be able to see where they are in the process-my lawyer had me pay for 5 hrs. of his time for a retainer when my husband was medicaide pending -so since lawyers are in the business to make big bucks he probably could have had his staff do it in a lot shorter time than 5 hrs because they know who to call and in this tech age they can get all the info they need and the NH will get it done fast so they get the money-they could not touch our house since it was in a trust over 5 years as was my MIL. The expert who posted earlier instead of making blank statements should have advised going to a local Elder Lawyer to get the info on your state-those of us who have been through it know a lot-do not worry they will do what is needed to get their money in a timly fashion but you could talk to her Social Worker if that makes you feel better but remember you are NOT responsible for her bills a friend of mine-after her allmost 100 yrs old mother died got a bill from the NH for thousands of dollars and they had allready been paid by medicare so she wrote back and said no way-you got paid what was allowed-you have more than enough on your plate as it is-I would think you could use her money to pay for an Elder Lawyer-some O ffices of the aging in your county may have lawyers who give their time for free to help people-my lawyer did give one day a week free and in our state now those sitting for the bar exams have to give so many hours of free work. Good luck and just ask question here and real people who have been down this road will give you help.
A couple of days ago, I went shopping for a assisted living for my Mom, they said our total money should keep her there for about 2 years then after the Money runs out, they would help us locate another living situation for her which really threw me for a loop, say her Mind completely goes but her Body hangs on for years, then do I take her back Home, quit my Job till she finally passes on?
If your mom or dad were veterans, there are veterans benefits that would permit her to keep $90 per month instead of $30. They don't advertise these benefits, my aunt's day care center told me how to apply. If her money is going to run out, you should apply for Medicaid now. It might also be a good time to buy her a LOT of clothes ... and store some. The same might be said of toiletries that won't expire. Just make sure you keep ALL receipts because they will do a 5 year look back when deciding whether or not to grant Medicaid. Also make sure she has current glasses, hearing aids, dentures, etc. before applying.
My Dad has enough money in savings for 5 years he is 94, He is afraid of out living his money. He is living in an assisted living community in california. Would he be able to stay there with medicaid assistance or need find another community. This is all so new to me. From what I am hearing we should contact medicare but they might not be of real help at this point. We would like to find some answers just to give him a some peace of mind, this is all he thinks about.Where will he end up!
However, spending down all of mom's money and then applying for Medicaid is, simply, bad advice.
What most families don't realize is that although Medicaid may save them from financial disaster, it does not pay for everything... particularly when it comes to items for the comfort of the patient/client.
You do not want your mother remaining in a nursing home without funds to augment what Medicaid will provide (what if mom needs glasses, dentures, hearing aides, clothing, special equipment, etc.?).
Moreover she will be permitted only $35 per month for personal expenses such as hair, etc.
I would advise that you do a search for "supplemental needs trusts" and "pooled community trusts" and learn about how this trust will allow:
1. Mom to qualify immediately for Medicaid.
2. Gift her remaining assets without penalty.
3. Preserve her assets for her own health, maintenance, and welfare.
4. Ensure quality of life while on Medicaid
Going to the social worker at the facility once her money is gone is the worst mistake you could possibly make.
good luck!
Hap
"Real Advice"? What would like advice on? I have not seen more information regarding elder care on any other site. What's really terrific is being able to interact with other caregivers to get what I would indeed call "real" advice from those who are enmeshed in the care giving world everyday. This is a great site and a great forum!
Sometimes it is true that the consequence of lots of input is that responses may not always be entirely accurate or may be just plain erroneous. This can, at times, throw someone trying to find answers off track.
That is why there are experts here to help
Case in point: Qualifying for public benefits has nothing to do with the IRS. Medicaid rules do now require that state agencies look at assets transferred in the past 5 years for those that were transferred after February 7, 2007.
You asked: "What is the real information about the government paying for nursing homes...why is everything secret". It is not that the information is secret; the problem is that the system is complex. Would it be great if it were streamlined and easier to access? Of course. But until that blessed day arrives I believe we must do the best we can with what we have and give each other the best advice possible.
P.S. I love Pirates!
Your tip about "supplemental needs trusts" and "pooled community trusts" is right on. And your caution about going to the social worker is also true from my experience. Thank you for participating in this forum!
I hope you did not pay the attorney you consulted a large fee because you did not, in my opinion, receive good advice. Planning for long-term care financing, particularly the notion of combing personal resources with public benefits, is legitimate, codified in law, and beneficial to the care recipient. Planning is not about "hiding money".
Yes, it is true that it is not permitted to "gift" to entities in contemplation of applying for Medicaid. Any such gifting, with few exceptions, is subject to to the famed "five year look back". However there are several strategies that will provide additional funds to a Medicaid recipient while allowing them to qualify for and maintain benefits. Among them are:
1. The Personal Services Contract (aka "Personal Care Contract")
2. The Supplemental Needs Trust
3. A proprerly structured immediate annuity.
With respect to the house, again you recieved inaccurate information. In most states the primary residence is consider an exempt asset for Mediciad qualification purposes. This is based on the notion of "intent to return" which is assumed in most states. Medicaid does not "attach a lein" to home when one qualifies for Mediciad. The only time the home may be "attached" is at the recipient's demise under a process known as "estate recovery".
In most states estate recovery is only applicable to probate assets. If the title of the home is properly worded (search for "enhanced life estate deed" or "lady bird deed") the home will by-pass probate and therefore, (in most states) not be subject to Medicaid estate recovery.
Here in the state of Florida the home can also remain an exempt asset if it is rented and the NET proceeds from the rental are used for the Medicaid recipient's cost of care. And again, if the home is properly titled, it will be exempt from recovery.
From a moral or ethical point of view let me also mention that from my perspective after having worked with hundreds of families over the past ten years that purpose of Medicaid planning for the overwhleming majority is not to benefit heirs or circumvent public policy but, rather, to accomplish the goal you stated... to provide good care.
For instance, funds transfered to the supplemental needs trust mentioned above allows the applicant to qualify immediately for benefits but for the monies transferred to it to be used for the health, maintenance, and welfare of the recipient. The money can be used to buy up to a private or "nicer" room for the Medicaid recipient, to purchase clothing and entertainment, to supplement medical and personal needs, etc. Any funds remaining in the trust upon the demise of the recipient must go back to the state for Medicaid reimbursement for cost of care before heirs recieve any residual from the trust (same holds true for the immediate annuity also mentioned above).
The problem with not planning ahead, not using all of the tools at your disposal, and spending all of your parent's money first is that you then may NOT be in a position to provide for what you stated your goal was "...to provide the best care possible".
Proper planning before or in crisis is best for the care recipient and is supported by sound public policy.
Thanks
some peace of mind, this is all he thinks about.Where will he end up!