Dual POA- siblings not speaking. Need to clear home and have estate sale. What do you suggest?

Reading answers here, makes me wonder what legally can be done to a POA who steals everything, even the will so there is no copy to question him. My brother did that to me and another sibling, took all the money, while our mom has been in a nursing home for dementia, and then called Habitat for humanity to clean out the house and never told us. Then he called us and said he was thru with the POA and we were to take care of mom as he was thru with her. She was 3 months behind on the nursing home among other bills. Called APS on him and his elder abuse and the state only scolded him and left me and my brother to get her into a medicaid facility . This kind of elder abuse happens all across this nation thru the laws of POA and not much siblings that are left out of decisions can do. I asked my deceased dads attorney for just a copy of his will and they refused, so you here who are quibbling over stuff , remember there are litterally thousands of people like us, who never had a chance at looking thru anything that might have been left behind. Even went to the probate court to search public records but my brother never did dad's bidding to record the will, so as far as we know it doesn't exist.(I did see it 10 or 11 years ago while visiting my parents) I have visited a few detectives with the county, but they are so swamped with real crimes, this type of crime seems victimless to them.

Have a cordial meeting at the house & decide amongst yourselves what you want to keep. Then get house ready for sale. Forget storage fees ...that’s ridiculous. Just do it amicably because you have to live with your siblings...& tell Atty to go f- -k himself . That’s my opinion. But if you want to pay years of storage fees as well as Atty fees, be my guest! Hugs 🤗

Oh no you don't! - have to live with your siblings, I mean. But escaping from them (if you hope to escape in due course) with as little scarring as possible is worth a lot of compromises, I agree.

I may have missed it somewhere in this thread because a lot has been said and written about themselves but (1). What did attorney say? (2) Is your mother lucid?

My cousins fought about their deceased mother's material possessions. They never spoke to each other EVER AGAIN! Then one of them died.
Good luck and prayers to you.

NO STORAGE! Try to be open to what sis wants? Remember this is about what mom would want. Would she want sis to pay for those things? The value that an appraiser will place on things is pennies on the dollar. Don't make a big deal of it.

Twisted sissies decided to put items into storage with the intent of getting it out, SOMETIME. That was four years ago now. Things finally out of storage last August. How much was spent on storage over that four years? More than $25,000.00! Four years later TS was claiming no value to any of the items!

Out of sight out of mind. Try to be reasonable and do as mom would do.

Distributing household items do not need to impact Medicaid eligibility only if they are appraised then sold for less than appraised value.. Imagine the Medicaid back up for applications if household items were to be scrutinized! You don't want to open up that Pandora's box.

Choose your battles. Spend your life practicing being at peace with yourself.

Yes, let sis just take it to her home. You don't care about it, so be done with it. Settle the issue, the longer it takes, the more the attorneys are going to make.

Been there.

This seems more like one sister wanting to take revenge on the other sister and the lawyer is laughing all the way to the bank. Give her the stuff. Maybe she needs to sell it for money. So what. You are acting so high and mighty. Stop being difficult. Life is too short

SE, what are the plans for selling the house? You wrote:

"The house doesn't even need to be sold. We agreed that I would live there for a couple years and then probably have to sell it."

To qualify for Medicaid the home, if rented, has to be at market rates. When sold, has to be at market price. I suspect Medicaid may question you living there and not paying rent. That could alone disqualify mom from receiving Medicaid.

This is especially puzzling. The home is mom's largest asset, most likely and would pay for facility for a year or longer. You could argue that you are helping the situation by lowering insurance cost if home was not occupied. It will not fly. And you want to clear the home so you can live there?

My former home was not occupied for period of time following the years I cared for mom. Long story. My insurance went from $1,400 a year to $4,500 a year! The home needs to be prepped for sale and sold to pay for mom's care. Yet you are arguing and engaging attorneys on mom's dime to continue the fight over stuff? Doesn't make much sense.

The concern over stuff? Is there concern over the cost of rent?

What a nightmare! So sorry that you are dealing with this. An earlier post you mention she is a dual POA. Unfortunate move on your mom’s part.

Did your mom do this so it would be ‘fair’ or what? All she did was pit the two of you against each other. Trust me, I know how that feels. Sadly, lots of parents set up their kids for a disaster.

Would your mom consider removing her as POA and letting you handle all legal matters? Is she of sound mind and deemed capable to do that?

Would your mom update her will stating that you are to receive such and such specific items and your sister can have equal value of other things?

Your sister is not going to be reasonable. You already know that. There is no sibling relationship to destroy because the two of you have never been close.

Yes, Facebook posts may be embarrassing but anyone that knows your sister is not going to give her much credence. It seems like you are the one with all the credibility so forget about what she has to say.

I don’t have a good relationship with my siblings and I could give a rat’s azz what they say about me.

I won’t get any sentimental items either and I have accepted it. Long story and I won’t go into it.

The question becomes how far do you want this to go? What are you obligated to do legally? What can you convince your mom to do? Sounds like she babies and enabled your sister.

I lived through my mom showing favoritism and enabling siblings and I was the responsible one too. Me? I threw in the towel. Wasn’t worth it anymore. I surrendered. Went no contact.

I don’t have any right to tell you how to feel or what to do. I respect your feelings whatever they may be. I wish you the very best in finding the right solution in this messy matter. Good luck.

Sounds to me shes not being compliant with the way this was set up. The attorney should be able to tell you what to do legally. I bet theirs some kind of time frame that she needs to comply with as it pertains to a timely manner. I would go ahead without her but cc her on every appt. i made to include her so if she takes you to court you cya. Documentation Documentation it shows her not participating. Good luck

Here's the deal. Your mom is still living, so no matter what happens with her house and belongings no one gets anything at this point.

As I have read through this post I got the idea that your sister figured she would get all the expensive doodads because you would be living rent free in mom's house until??? This is the unfortunate result when off spring start spending their perceived inheritance before they actually have it in hand.

At the end of the day there may not be 2 pennies to rub together. Mom could outlive her long term insurance and require every dollar that she has to provide her with care.

When you liquidate moms assets you would be wise to ensure that the money is protected for mom. Sister having joint POA puts her in a position to steal moms money and leave mom out in the cold.

Greedy siblings are a PITA and the idea that she is trying to pick mama's bones before she has died is repulsive.

I hope you can protect your mom and her future care.

When my husband's aunt died, him and his brother and sister went through the house and talked about what was important to them that they wanted out of the house.  His sister took a little statue and some cast iron frying pans that had been in the family for 100 yrs, his brother took an old rocking chair, a niece took the dining table and I took a cookie jar.  Those things had very little monetary value, but held fond memories for each of us.  Everything else was auctioned.  If your mom has great long term care insurance and money isn't the issue, is there a reason you can't jut let your sister have the Christmas ornaments or whatever it is she wants?  How much value can they really have?  I am just trying to look at it with what I have experienced.  Even if your sister is lying in a gutter drunk clutching those things that were important to her from your moms house,  what difference does it make?  You have no idea who is going to buy them at auction and what will become of those things.  A beautiful china cabinet of our Aunts went for $50 at auction. Split 4 ways it was $12.50 ea.  Totally not worth fighting over.  I get that something like a car or a house that has a title and worth a lot of money cannot just be given away... I am talking more about a plate or a picture on the wall or a photo or a frying pan, ornaments, etc.... something that is not on a list with the lawyer but might hold sentimental value to your sister.  I speak from experience that sometimes when you are going through something like this that takes its toll on you, you can get caught up on a little thing that is really not all that important when you look back on it later.

I'm sure you mentioned this, but has your mom been informed of what's happening or is she no longer able to provide input?

You mention that it says in the will that the items should be split between you and your sister right? You said an appraiser is going to give you a list of the items and their value. You can send your sister a copy of the list along with a copy of the will by certified mail. You can advise that she is entitled to items that equal half the value and that means half the Christmas ornaments if they are of major sentimental value. You can even check off the items you would like to claim before sending the list. You can mention that if there are items you've claimed that she feels like she'd like to have, you are willing to negotiate for those items and have her send you her list.

But first, before you do any of these things, you should make sure that your mom is onboard with you dissolving her estate and that it is legal for you to do so. (I'm guessing the equity in the house will have to be perserved until after your mom's passing and frankly the value of the contents may need to be too. Only the attorney can advise you on that matter.)

Then, if there are things that you just can't agree on, if it were me, I'd give in and give them to your sister and take something else of equal value. Do what you can to take the focus off the material component of this difficult task and get it behind you.

Spend the rest of the time, loving on your mom while you can, even if she isn't able to respond. Put your sister behind you as well. You will most likely feel anger and resentment towards her for the rest of your life anyway unless you learn to just let her go.

For the last 5 years I have struggled and struggled to let go of a relationship with my own sister in law. (We grew up together and raised our kids together and she was the only sister I ever knew.) I finally read a book that helped me understand that while I was just devastated by the break up of our relationship, she did not care about it at all and I was only hurting myself by continuing to reach out over and over. A good book to read is "Adult Children of Immature Parents." I read it to help my nieces cope with my sister in laws (their mother) behavior but it ended up helping me as much as it helped them. I then went on to read "But It's Your Family". That's another very helpful resource for people like us who would like to fix relationships that simply can't be repaired right now and may never be repaired.

1.Make a plan for dividing these material items once you have the appraisal list.
2.Check with the attorney about the legality of dividing the contents prior to your moms passing.
3.Pass the list on to your sister.
4.Negotiate by email or mail to avoid tantrums and be prepared to receive responses that are negative or sarcastic but don't let that deter you from your goal.
5.Give up items even though they mean something and take something else of equal value to move the process along.
6.Close the file and don't look back.

Whatever happens, move away from your relationship with your sister and forgive her and feel love and mercy towards her. You may never have a relationship with her again in this lifetime and that's okay. Time may heal this wound or other circumstances may heal this wound but be prepared to completely let go and live your life without her in it.

It's easier said than done but at the end of the day, material things are fleeting. Narcissistic family members will wreak havoc on your life and it's better for your health and happiness to just let these things & people go. Meditation has helped me so much with living alongside these sorrows and just accepting them as they are without judgement.

Best of luck to you and I hope you are able so share precious moments with your mother. You're a wonderful daughter. Be loving and strong.

Youre lucky...my sister takes things from my mom's house in plain view and under protest of siblings who are not POA, and in front of my mom, with dementia, who still lives there, and her caregiver. She doesn't talk to me either.

"I am mentally exhausted and tired of dealing with it. My sister has exercised her power of attorney minimally. I have done all the work for 4 years. I'm just done with it."

I hear you there. Although the house & contents was not quite 2 years, I was handling finances, appointments, grocery shopping, etc. to help my mother for a while before that as well, plus the researching places, calling, looking, etc., and getting everything for the trusts set up. So in all it was probably closer to 4 years of my time (before the move.) Only 2 of us were named POA (OB isn't local, wasn't here to sign anything) - it doesn't specify we are "co", but for the most part he hasn't done anything with his POA. Getting an answer to anything from him is like pulling elephant tusks! Sometimes I resort to asking if he's still alive! Mental AND physical exhaustion, plus anger. It isn't worth it. While it might be nice to have a few mementos that you cherish, your sanity and peace of mind are worth MUCH more.

Even now, as we proceed with year 4 in MC, who gets all the work? Me. Sure, I could offload to him, but I know everything would fall apart! Ordering and keeping track of her meds, briefs, buying the OTC items she needs, etc, juggling the finances, taxes, payments, etc would not get done right! He couldn't even remember to pick her up for a dentist visit on the right day (cost $50 for no show!), despite my text msgs to remind him!

"As harsh as some of the comments have been I recognize that I need to let it go."
I am probably one of those in the "harsh" camp, but really we were only trying to put perspective on the issues. Sometimes it is easier AND better for you to just let it all go. The toll it can take on you isn't worth it. You still have your memories.

"I was really hoping I could get her to understand her bad behavior..."

You did post several times about how she has been like this most/all her life, so clearly nothing you could do or say is going to change that! In a comment to someone else's comment, I mention my OB. He was physically and psychologically abusive to me when we were kids. All these years I thought he "outgrew" this, but he hasn't. It is who he is. Unfortunately I missed the subtle signals during the first few trips up to help cleaning out the condo (only maybe 3-4 weeks all total in the more than a year and a half it took to get it all done and dusted!) His last trip was to be 2 weeks, stay at my place, visit mom and help clearing/cleaning. He didn't last 1 week. Bad mouthing you on Facebook is nothing, just lies. Have it yelled at you AFTER throwing you to the floor twice, ranting, raving, cursing up a storm while packing his stuff (after the floor treatment, I told him to get the F out.) The thing with people like that, they get "over" it - he kept loading his car with more mom crap and bringing it here afterwards (out Fri, back to my place M-W.) I would not answer or open the door, yet he would sit here for an hour waiting. I even called for police escort the first day, so I could go home! Had to make a statement and the officer wanted me to press charges. By the time we got here, he was gone. Officer wanted to call him, but I said no, he will be going back home Sat, and won't be welcome back - I didn't want to start trouble, but my statement was on record, so if he DID start something, I could change my mind!

I am over it, because I am done with him. He's back down south and can stay there. He is not and never will be welcome here again.

"My mother is what is most important because she does not have many more years left. I have such a good time when I visit her and make her laugh. That is worth more than the stuff in her house. They will be my final memories of her."

EXACTLY! Put all that misguided energy into enjoying the time you have left with your mom! You will NOT regret that! CHEERS!

Why don’t you talk to your mom about selling the house? Free yourself from this heartache. Forget your sister. She isn’t going to change. No one is going to pay attention to her foolishness on Facebook. Yes, embarrassing but consider the source.

Take your money and get an apartment. Is there anything that would prevent the sale, a legal issue? I don’t know. That’s why I have to ask you.

Please don’t get defensive. I would like to see you at peace and put all of this mess behind you.

Don’t even try to convince your sister of anything. Speak to your mom. Tell her what your sister is doing.

Your mom needs to settle this issue for the two of you. Why is your mom setting you and your sister up like this? She is setting both of you up to be enemies.

My mom did that too. Guess what? I gave up. I went no contact with my siblings and my mom. Not worth it. I did all that I could. I refuse to stay in toxic relationships.

Your situation is different but the chaos is the same. If you start having physical or mental issues from all of this crap, then where does that leave you or your mom?

I ended up with high blood pressure and seeing a cardiologist. Like I said, not worth it to me. I truly appreciate that you love your mom. Continue to see your mom but without stressing about your sister.

I love my mom. I don’t have any feelings left for my siblings. I will not allow my mom to wreck havoc in my life. I cared for her for two decades, 15 years in my home. I did more than my share.

I hope it will work out for you but it seems to be hanging in limbo for now. What will your attorney do to help remedy this nightmare that you are faced with?

I am not trying to upset you. I know it’s disturbing to be in a situation like this but is it worth it? Really? You don’t have respect from your sister. Your mom is allowing it to continue. So, what’s next?

What exactly do you want your sister to do? Or your mom? I am sorry if I am a bit confused about your situation.

Your mom means well by giving equal POA but look what it has caused. You’re at each other’s throats.

You keep talking about your sister’s mental illness and drinking. Something drove her to that. People who are content in their lives don’t solve issues by drinking. She is just as miserable as you are. I am not saying that you have to like her but have you tried to understand why she is why she is?

What exactly is this ‘mental illness’ that you are referring to? Depression? Anxiety? Bipolar disorder? Is she on meds? Does she see a mental health professional for her problems?

What’s the whole story here? We only have your side. What would she say about you or your mom? I am not taking sides but there is always two sides to a story.

Good luck to you. I hope you find a solution soon. You sound very stressed out.