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My dad died of Covid in November. He didn't tell me how unwell my mom was. I'm now dealing with a narcissistic sister who somehow got power of attorney. She is really feeling it and using it to settle old scores. I haven't talked to her in 25 years and it is now worse than I remember. She and BIL were incredibly abusive to me the day my dad died. I was trying to figure out what was going on, to help. I had to find out where he was and which hospital on my own. My sister would respond with "We don't need your help"  and "If you keep texting me I'm going to block you" (this was the only phone I had to connect to my Mom). "I'm only giving you information out of respect for your dad." All this because my sister told me about the affair she had and tried to enlist my help to hide evidence. Knowing full well BIL could take the children, I said, "No. I will not do anything to hurt your children". She tried to hide my mom from me, it took me a month to get a phone number for her. My sister dropped her off at assisted living in a different state 100 miles away 1 week after she lost her husband of 61 years a few weeks before Christmas. My sister picked her up for one day on Christmas then back to A.L. Our mom was not happy or well for months. She tried to make the best of it she told me later. She is very submissive and depressed. As she started coming out of the grief she said she was terribly lonely and asked if she could live with me. I was in an RV and said I was going to get a house so we could be near each other. This cheered her up immensely. I realized she was still in there, personality and sense of humor intact. She became a bit playful and goofy and thanked me over and over. She confided in me that she doesn't like my sister and that she "makes her uncomfortable". She told me she trusts me over and over. My sister was unraveling, of course she was all bent out of shape that my mother was unaware she was sending repetitive e-mails (very short short-term memory). That she couldn't appreciate all that she was doing for her. Me! Me! Me! When I grew concerned that I was being blocked on e-mail I was transferred to the director of the facility. They were incredibly defensive despite telling her my mom was very happy with the staff just depressed and missing family. I told her I was just trying to troubleshoot the problem without getting my sister and BIL involved. The Director then tells my BIL that I'm plotting to file complaints with the state and instead of communicating with me he tells my mom that I'm creating trouble and "I hope you don't get kicked out." She rants about her complaining and lack of gratitude, says it's making her sick and affecting our marriage and says, "Maybe you should go live with (me) in _____." My sister writes me soon after and says, ,"She's all yours. You figure out how to get her out there and I'll write the checks." Then she CCs me in another narcissistic masterpiece to my mom which includes a laundry list (wrapped in "love") about all the things she can't do anymore such as make friends, play games, do puzzles, be creative. Basically everything that made life worth living was gone. I tell them that can never happen again. BIL's letter was elder abuse. My mom begs to live with me. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it work, we found a house and are excited then my sister today said; No mom, you need professional carer 24/7. My dad took care of her and had no immediate plans for assisted living, I could do the same. I work at home. I could be with her 24/7. She agreed to mom moving several states away because I could do all the work. As of today I am "your other daughter". I'm exhausted but I have to get her help. She needs to be evaluated, learn her rights. She's fully on board,  but I don't know where to start. If we do this my sister will cut off our communication. Does my mom have the right to choose who cares for her and spend her own $ to pay for that? Mom is getting $10k/mo from Dad's retirement and can't touch it. I feel so helpless.

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PGH, when you get settled, take mom to a podiatrist. Most elderly folks have some venous insufficiency which makes even the tiniest cut on the foot a potentially huge problem.

My grandmother died many years ago from a cascade of issues that started after my Aunt nicked her toe while clipping her toenails. Medicare pays for this to be done several times a year.
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PGH, so happy for your mom and you that this is working out so well!
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pleasegodhelp Oct 2022
I had her draw a clock today showing 7:10. It was near perfect. She is sleep deprived and has some memory issues. It is not dementia. She does well on the other cognitive tests as well.

I washed her neglected feet today. Sprayed on some antifungal powder. I am so thankful for this chance to help her. I woke up in the middle of the night and realized...she can't reach them. We called it a spa day. Clipped her toenails... I can't bear what she went through this year. Really figuring out how to navigate her day to keep her calm and awake and happy and make sure I get enough sleep. She's made great progress in just a month.
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OP updated to a May response from BurntCaregiver. I was afraid it would get lost in all the responses so posting here. So glad "pleasegodhelp" that it all worked out.

"I have the PoA now as well as my mom's wish for me to be her guardian if there is ever a challenge. You mentioned that caregiving is never what people expect. I went into this with my eyes wide open and it has actually been almost exactly what I expected. Not easy, no, and sometimes completely overwhelming, but I'm grateful every day that I can help her as much as I can. I figured out she needed one med in four smaller doses a day rather than two and that has eliminated some serious agitation/panic/ stuff she's been dealing with all year. I also discovered her apnea is severe, 40 periods of not breathing for 30 to 70 seconds per hour followed by a giant gasp (my sister took away her CPAP machine which she'd been on for 20 years) and have an urgent referral for a pulmonologist. I think most of her symptoms stem from that as adrenaline issues were her biggest complaint when she was first diagnosed with apnea.

She's been in survival mode all year since my dad died and he never would have taken it away and she was religious about using it. And I got her off one medication (we were running out and my sister took several days to respond and even then was vague and not helpful so my mom went into withdrawal) that every doc, even the AL place says she should have never been on it daily anyway -- it's a drug that you give people before surgery to make you drowsy and my sister had her on it 24/7. She woke up looking like the living dead and now wakes up cheerful and quite awake and gets dressed and ready to go. She's able to run errands with me and take long walks. Talks about wanting to take trips. When she first got here her legs hurt after a block or two. We're now walking 3 miles several days a week. (Smoothies with glutamine for the muscle wasting.)

Most of the things they told me about her and her needs were false, which I suspected. She can do many things for herself and no incontinence issues. She really cares about her appearance. She should not live alone but loves to help out, does the dishes, cleans the floor, makes herself some cereal. Want's nothing to do with the stove. Today she insisted on helping me rake the yard. "How can I help." All day long. She thanks me several times a day. She sits on the porch and says, "You know the best thing about being here? That (sister) is so far away." The other day I was talking about her and she said, "Please, can we stop saying her name."

I'm not getting much work done but we'll figure that out...it's been a big transition. My sister also claimed that all of the docs agreed that this move would be traumatic. We did it in one day (she wanted to do it that way)...6 hours of driving and 6 hours waiting for a delayed flight and she never slept once. An hour from home she said, 'This has been a pretty easy trip!" She is incredibly agile, can still run (! -- 81) and when she trips she catches herself. The other day she was saying, "What would I do without you" and turned and nearly walked into the wall and made the funniest sounds and we both laughed our heads off for two straight minutes.

That's the good stuff. There have been difficult moments. There are meltdowns and some dysfunctional stuff revisiting from my childhood but we had a good talk and she thanked me for the conversation and things are better. And I realized that much of that is medication related. If she gets it more often we can head off those episodes. We both know this has to work.

She arrived here with ancient underwear -- some w/ several 2-3 inch holes (she now has new underwear) and towels that would have ordinarily been in the rag bin. All that retirement coming in and that's how she was living. She was so excited that I had new sheets and towels waiting for her. She kept asking me if she would be living in the basement.
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JoAnn29 Oct 2022
Cont: Often enough that it dawned on me that that might be what they were telling her. No words. Sister hasn't contacted either of us or asked to talk to her in a month."
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Good Morning,

Usually what I have always found is who steps forward to do it? The problem arises when family members cannot agree on what to do with the loved one.

I look around at how people treat their loved ones. See by their example how they treat their parents, children and basically who shows up in life.

That is usually who makes the decisions. Sometimes older people assume their so-called favorite is going to step to the plate. How can you do this out-of-state.

It's really who the loved one trusts and are you available? Are you there in the trenches. To orchestrate these things out-of-state is not the same. Your situation is not unusual. Your sister probably thinks, you are not even around. And down deep your mother probably thinks the same. This is quite common in a family.

Unless you plan on coming to see your Mom, hold her hand, decide that you will move her and care for her. To do things by the sidelines is not the same as being in the trenches.

You sound like you love your mother a lot and are not happy with the present situation. Your Mom probably has good and bad days and really can't make decision for herself and she knows you are not around. The Sunday night phone is ok, but it's not the same as sitting and holding her hand.

These things are difficult and you need to make a plan. It's your mother and sometimes a house can be divided. Come up with a plan for your Mom--perhaps sell the house, move your mother and give sis some $$$ for her caregiving. It's a win-win situation!
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Let me begin by saying I have read every post in this thread. It is my opinion as you asked for. I do not believe you will be given POA for multiple reasons. No! A person with dementia cannot make those decisions if she has Durable POA. As other have said, residents will say that they want to leave/go home and some even beeline the door when opened. So sad to see but they are in the best place. Based on things you said, I doubt you have $10 grand + for an attorney. I do not believe any judge would assign POA to you with your living conditions.

You come across as arrogant with all your "abilities/experiences" that have nothing to do with care giving. You have disparaged you father and sister/BIL and seem to be spiteful. I question your motives based on all your posts. There is a reason your parents chose her for POA, and I sense jealousy. Your father did not decide for your mother her POA. Legally, only she can make that decision, sign and notarized. If you are so "close" to your mom, why did she not choose you for her POA? There has to be a reason! Do you have mental illness? Rhetorical...

Talking on the phone with a dementia patient is no way to assess the dementia.
My mother was dx Oct 2017 with mid-stage Vascular Dementia after a 6-hour evaluation. As of today, May 23, 2022, my mother could easily mask her dementia on the surface as she can present VERY well. However, she is incontinent and does not get herself clean or properly bathe as she will leave soap in her hair. etc. Unless you are there on a consistent basis around her you have no idea the level your mother is at. I had to have 2 Drs. to sign off on Memory Care. Just now my mother had drainage from her nose and was completely oblivious. I asked her to get a tissue and she wiped it. Then I had to ask her to blow it to get it all out as she was just wiping. These are not things you would realize unless you saw her frequently.

I in no way am trying to be hurtful...just honest and real. It is sad you asked for advice and argued when you got an answer you did not want to hear. You want validation and based on what I have read, I cannot give it in good conscience.
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PGH, I wanted to revisit something. You mention that someone from "elder abuse" suggested that you go get mom and take her out of state and essentially start over - getting her assessed so that you can start your life together.

I want to caution you to be very careful here. It sounds like you have the ability to visit your mother in the AL and maybe even are allowed to take her off site for visits if no one would question you removing her. You have been very resistant to a lot of the advice here - largely because you have your mind made up. And I can understand that to a point. You told me directly that is because you are intuitive and to a point I can understand that. I don't claim to be very gifted in that manner - but I do understand the concept of trusting your gut - however I also believe that you need to follow that up with a healthy dose of realism where possible. In moments of dire circumstances or emergencies trusting your gut is often imperative. BUT there are definitely times when it is VERY important to stop and take a moment to temper that with reason and logic.

Please take the time to look into the legalities of removing your mother from the AL. The advice you received from the resource at the Elder Abuse was ADVICE, if I'm not mistaken, with no component of LEGAL involved. If I'm not mistaken you do not know if you could get into any trouble - legal or otherwise - if you try to permanently remove your mother from AL. You are not her POA, you are not her legal guardian. In fact, you don't have any legal say in her affairs.

You want to help her -which for all intents and purposes is admirable. That being said, don't shoot yourself in the foot before you have even started, by not doing your due diligence because you are anxious to get her out of there and she is panicking. She is NEVER going to be happy there. And you have visions in your head of how happy she is going to be with you. I won't manipulate you with the visions that a lot of us are having of what is likely your reality. I will just offer this. You need to slow down and do this right. Your sister could literally call the police, put out a missing persons report and report you for kidnapping. And if your mother is not competent you could 100% lose any access you have to her in one fell swoop - permanently.

As painful as it may be, the better approach is to slow down and come at this from a different angle. You can't make this happen as fast as you would like. You can't make this happen today. Mom is unhappy. The vast majority of people in AL probably are. Their lives aren't what they used to be. But those same people generally aren't happy ANYWHERE even home because their lives aren't what they used to be. But please just try doing this within the system - it may be slow and painful and it may not be what you want but you have a better chance of getting what you want out of it.

If she is competent - SHE can ask for a family meeting and have you there - and talk about her rights. But in the panic and rush to get this done fast, something is going to break irreparably and you may not be able to fix it and then she really will be stuck there without recourse and you may not have access to her at all.
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Classynsassy1 May 2022
My mother (75) was happy in memory care after the initial adjustment even though she was very high functioning compared to most MC residents. She missed me very much during Covid lockdown and getting out with me; however, we made many happy memories and lots of pictures/videos...many though a glass window. I wish I could upload some. :)

My father (deceased) was the witty one and I (51) get it from him however, once in a while mom would come out with a zinger. I was teasing her after a year of Covid and said "Momma, you are spoiled rotten" due to all spoiling and treats I took her during that time. She quickly retorted, "Yeah...I am your spoiled little brat!" I laughed so hard I had tears rolling down my face. So, for Mother's Day, I bought her a Spoiled Little Brat T-shirt. She absolutely loves it. :D

Mom sewed us matching clothes growing up. I carried on that tradition buying us matching clothes. It brought her so much joy and loved that people noticed! :)

Also, I made her for Christmas 2020 a custom blanket with family pics...She was so proud of it. The care staff placed it on her bed every day after they made her bed so she and everyone could see it. We decorated for all holidays/seasons outside her door. We made wreaths/decorations which she loved! :D You make the best of the dementia situation! It is very possible! :D
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If you suspect your mom is being manipulated or abused by your sister and BIL, them notify the authorities. Be aware that the state might decide it is in mom's best interest if the state appoints a guardian ad litem as her decision-maker.
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Care decisions can become a tug of war between rival siblings.

Always come back to what is best for the person who needs care. What is best for Mom here.

Mom has dx dementia so although being able to state what she WANTS at that moment, may have lost the insight required to discuss what she NEEDS.
Eg needing assistance for ADLS, meals provided, round the clock care on call.

POA sister has arranged AL. That's really all we know about that.

OP wishes to rescue Mom.

Why?
* To enjoy cuppas on the sofa.
* To make Mom happy.

Feels good to share good times - sounds sweet.
Also sounds like when my 6yo daughter had tea parties with friends. For an hour. (Wasn't 24/7.. that would involve an adult taking over, structure other activities, feed them, break up quarrels etc).

So I ask, is the OP lonely?
Who else comes to sit on the sofa? Dad recently passed away I believe. Grief can bring up all sorts of emotions - a desire to reconnect with family being just one.

Is there sibling rivalry driving these wishes?
I WANT to be able to make Mom happier than sister can.
Why? To gain more of Mom's gratitude & love??

Yes I am sure I will be accused of being harsh. I agree.

I really do hope the OP can find a way to enjoy happy times with Mom - without causing mayhem & further stress, to self & rest of family.
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pleasegodhelp: Prayers sent. Perhaps you should retain an elder law attorney.
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I see posts in here saying your mother must give up her rights and declare someone else as a guardian ...that is a LIE!!! You're mother can choose what she wants done. Don't let them destroy her free will!
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PeggySue2020 May 2022
If mom is incompetent, no she can’t.
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Of course your mom has the right to choose! Your sister NEVER needed to remove her from her home. There are programs that help people stay in there home and they can provide in-home care. In Wisconsin we have a program called IRIS which is wonderful. She can choose her providers (including family) and they will pay for the care givers and provide things she might need in the home too that are not covered by her insurance. They also cover activities outside the home. I am certain they have similar programs in other states.

Many of these homes have severe neglect and even abuse. Your mom is far better off living with you. Someone who loves her and will care for her. Your sister can come visit or talk to her on the phone. But it should be up to your mom where she wants to stay and who she wants to care for her. She is a human being and needs to be treated like one.

God Bless you ...Good Luck to you and your mom!
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How about the two of you having a Zoom meeting with an Elder Law Attorney. It appears to be a two-state issue, but I'm wondering if Mom can legally walk out of her facility and refuse to come back?

There are many legal issues and many questions.
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TopSailJanet is correct when she said OP's not looking for advice, she's looking for affirmation.

PGH, I strongly reiterate my previous advice, before you "rescue" mom, please seek some counseling to help you find a strategy for dealing with this emotional mess of a conflict, for your sake as well as your mom's. Caregiving 24/7 for anyone is heliacally difficult, even for those of us who have strong family relationships and support. To try and do it without that? Especially with dementia in play?

If you love your mom even half as much you claim to, you will seek outside advice and support, before you try to remove her from care. For her sake.
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You mother absolutely has the right to choose who cares for her AND who has her POA.

I understand narcissism well and this disease aside theses people are human and have hearts and I think your sister has your mom’s best interest in mind. I Am estranged from my narcissistic sister as well (we are both in our late 60’s). She took care of our Dad until he died and I took care of my my mom.

I would venture that you don’t know what being a caregiver 24/7 is really all about. Even if she is physically very healthy it it very good you are looking at hard work.

Make a plan, with your mother before you take her out of AL. Get her POA (one less battle down the road)

$10,000 a month is a hefty motivation factor for anyone. Be sure you are ready to take responsibility for that much money.

make sure you are ready for this. I am a bid proponent of parents staying home with caregivers. Facilities just aren’t the same. A good facility would cost about 10 grand a month. Maybe that’s why her hubby set up trust like that.

Be honest with yourself and sit with mom and figure out what’s best for her first and then see where you can facilitate that.

love and light
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Despite the walls of self praising text from pgh, I still haven’t heard anything that resembles a plan.

Lawyers are allegedly advising you take her out of state. How? The poa of sister is active. If mom tries to sign out with you, the AL will immediately notify your poa sister. If you two take off in a surprise move, the police will be called to find the missing person.

Should you surmount that somehow, then what? What is your immediate housing plan for her?
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BarbBrooklyn May 2022
She didn't say "lawyers" advised thus. She said "I was told by both of the reps at the elder abuse departments in two states that the first thing I need to do is get her out of state. The were very adamant about this. We would essentially be seeking asylum."

I'm not sure what sort of professional that is.
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You don't talk much about your mother's health and mental capabilities. Is your mother of sound mind? Can she make decisions (financial and health) for herself? If so, I'm not sure why her POA was activated. Why are you assuming that your sister is not providing proper caregiving oversight for your mother? She might be right about your mother needed 24/7 care. You will probably have to get an attorney to help you take over guardianship of your mother, but be careful what you wish for. It's going to be a legal battle, and if your sister is not cooperative, you may end up paying your mother's expenses. You also don't mention if you are able to visit your mother in person to see how much care she needs and how she is being cared for. It's not unusual for people in assisted living facilities to want to go "home" or to be somewhere else. This is also symbolic and can mean that they want to be the way they used to be - independent and able to do things for themselves. Try to calm yourself down and deal with this very logically rather than emotionally. I'm sorry that your sister is being so negative toward you. You may have to resign yourself to a bad relationship with your sister. Your mother's care should be the main focus. If she is getting good care now, she may be in a place that is appropriate for her. Try to maintain the ability to call her often and visit when you can so that you can assess the situation with more first-hand knowledge. Try to be positive when you speak with your mother and don't get into your issues with your sister.
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This was a lot to read and I hope I read it correctly.

I was the one who was picked as POA by my parents. It is not a task taken lightly by those who appoint you.

I am just going to hit on a few points here because I tend to ramble on.

you cant do any if the things you want to do. You cant move your Mother, buy a house with her and you have no control over medical or bill paying. Your sister has that control. You would need to hire a lawyer, go to court and prove your sister has been incompetent in her roll as POA. Considering you have been estranged for 25 years I have no idea how you intend to prove that.

you say you will ask for financial documents to prove fudiciary duties were carried out properly by the sister.

$10,000 a month plus S.S does not even come close to covering your Mothers care. Insurance, medical bills, medical supplies, memory care etc. are all very expensive. As a POA responsible for all of my Moms bills (Dad died last September) she spends in excess of that and she isnt in memory care. Your sister would not have placed Mom in AL if she was after her money.

my advice to you is to park your camper near Mom as it appears you can work from home. Help your sister out with care for your Mom. Work together and give support. Your Mom seems to be well taken care of and dementia is a difficult disease to deal with.

I beg you to rethink your strategy and think about your real motive. I think you are a bit jealous that sister was appointed POA. I have a sister who told me she didn’t know why my parents didn't make her POA. It has been just shy of 3 years since I moved my parents near me and she hasn't said that since. That sister has been the most support to me. She comes every few months for a week so I can sit in my jammies till noon.

I will mention something that stood out to me and no one has touched on. You mention that you live alone, never married or had kids. That is lifestyle you chose and I respect you for that. Considering this you are the last person I would choose to take a dementia patient into their home.

I am not being disrespectful but stating a fact. My mom is in assisted living and it is at best a part time job for me. You have no idea what you think you are taking on.

if you really have proof that the sister and BIL have taken advantage of your Mom then please go to the proper authorities with your proof. You mention her being taken advantage of monetarily. It should be easy to prove that with the right legal representation.

after reading through all the posts on this I feel for your poor Mom
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Sarah3 May 2022
I feel very badly for how the op was treated so cold and cruel right after the death of her own father. I think most people would find it inexcusable that her sister tried to obstruct her from finding out about her father and also kept her mom hidden following this. This was after all her father too so for the sister to believe she had a right to withhold her from being included has nothing to do w poa duties it does however show a troubling lack of integrity, empathy, right and wrong and basic understanding of social norms
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My brother and me had to get our dad away from someone like your sister. The lawyer said he may not know where his teeth are but dementia doesnt change his heart. Your sister may be in a heap of teouble if ahe is not spending moms money on your mom. Get an elder lawyer asap. My dad, behind closed doors, was asked by the lawyer, Who do you want to leave all your things to and who should take care of you? My dad answered without a hitch, " my kids of course, who else?" She had his will changed to leave everything to her. We took care of him until he died and made sure he had quality if life AT HOME. She was going to put him in a home and spend his money on herself. It can be done. Please, please take the time to find out.
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Grandmaofeight May 2022
If they wanted his money putting him in assisted living was not going to benefit them in that way. They average $9,000 a month for one room in my area depending in level of care.
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As long as you’re mom is still good in her mind she has the right to decide where she lives.
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AlvaDeer May 2022
MOM is diagnosed with dementia in the upper stages A diagnosis our OP doesn't agree with. She feels she is in lower stages of dementia. She however hasn't been around for 25 years.
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PGH, please just make sure you consult a certified Eldercare attorney before making any moves.

All we try to do here is present differing opinions for you to consider. Be well.
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Again, Folks....My mother lived with my dad who had already paid for a house rental down in Mexico for the two of them. They were doing just fine. The only reason my mom is in assisted living is that my dad died and my sister wanted nothing to do with her care. Doesn't matter how many times I tell you I've thought this through, how seriously I take this decision, or that I'm going to have her professionally assessed. I have always been really good at things that are a misery for other people and not as good at the things they find easy. That's just how I'm wired. I'm good at *hard*. And I'm not going to just go with AL because it's easier for me (not saying you are). I'm going to make damn sure she is in need of AL and since my sister refused to share any of her health info with me I have to find out for myself. Regardless she wants to be in the same town with me so we're going to start there, and if the doctors say she's only at the mild stage and is perfectly capable of making her own decisions I'm going to keep her with me until that's no longer possible due to her medical needs.

My sister herself claims my mother has "severe" dementia but I've consulted the 7 stage scale and my mom is *early*stage 4 at worst. Just found another one today and she doesn't have any of the symptoms of even moderate dementia. So stop diagnosing people you don't know. And yes. It gets worse. I get it. And I will roll with that...get help where I can, and pivot when it's time to pivot.

People have been telling me things are too hard or impossible all my life and I've proven them wrong every time.

I hear you. I hear that you're at the end of your ropes, that your "burnt"...I've been burnt and at the end of my rope for 40 years. You have no idea -- I survived mercury poisoning, traveled solo into the Sinai desert and still remembered at an immediate care Clinic in Chico CA because they said they never saw anyone laugh their way through a kidney stone. I've had 18 and drove myself to the hospital for every one of them. I have suffered enough to know that "this too shall pass"...I found my way to gratitude. I see the beauty in ugly things. I realize that the hardest things in my life brought me my greatest gifts so now when things really suck I know one day I will look back on that with gratitude.

Watching you pathologize everyone in my family when you really have no idea...honestly...I can't imagine having the time to spend that much time analyzing people I don't even know. I've learned...the more you show up and do your work in life the more people who haven't seek to take a piece out of you.

I hope one day you are able to wake up every day seeking to feel and express only love. That's my goal. Every day.

Think I'm done with this place. Thanks for those who compassionately and respectfully helped and peace out.
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AlvaDeer May 2022
PleaseGod,
You pathologized your family accusing your Sister of many many things too numerous to go into and your BIL of abuse and other things. Not us. You have gone the whole route from narcissistic to abusive. No one but you did that.
You have no right--NO RIGHT-- to your Mother's health information or financial information. Not until you are made guardian. So why not just see an attorney and get that show on the road.
Burnt,
Now it comes into the fray she had not much use for DAD either. Our OP couldn't get along with ANYONE but to me, now there are other issues, like trying to get Mom to buy half the home with her so she can "care for her". I have read every single sentence our OP has written. I find her scary. She claims we have pathologized her entire family. No one here did that, unless believing her every word they did it to the sister. Our OP has pretty much skated right on out of here with sympathy and with people telling her to get guardianship. I would be willing to stake a whole lot that that will not happen, no matter how much money she has to sink into the whole thing. Just my own personal guess.
I am going to avoid this whole thread from now on. As I admitted, I identify too deeply with this situation. Warring siblings was always my least favorite thing on forum no matter my own situation. Mine aren't at war as the good long ago gave up after decades of trying on the "other". It took me to age 80 to give up. And despite the giving up I would never withdraw inheritance, so she still stands to gain that (I believe withdrawing any inheritance is tantamont to a last punch no one can answer, so wouldn't ever do that).
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Alva,

The "bad" sister was given the POA. She did not fly up on her broomstick and get it through an evil spell.
The "good" sister wasn't given the POA. What's the reason for this? The OP doesn't go into any detail, only stating that the narcissistic sister got it "somehow". There's a reason.
I'm sorry your daughter is estranged from you. That is very sad. No child ever starts of hating their parent for no reason.
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pleasegodhelp May 2022
Thank you for your kind words, B.C. I could not agree more. Also glad for the quotes. I don't resonate with the whole good/bad us/them dynamic anymore. We are all walking wounded. The difference is how we handle our wounds and yes...I've learned, sadly, that people who are estranged from their kids are usually estranged for a reason. I learned that the hard way on many occasions. There are exceptions but pouncing on someone who is estranged from their parents because your child is estranged from you just kind of proves the point. I'm not your child. I'm someone else's child. A part of another family with it's own unique story.

If you knew my dad you would understand the why. Big ego. Very stubborn. And a very intimate relationship with denial. Very covertly controlling. And lots of regrets. This was surely one of his greatest because he did want his wife to be loved and cared for and just couldn't bother to sit with me for five minutes to hear me and validate a single feeling and simply say, "I understand why that would hurt. I'll try to be more sensitive." I literally told him what I needed him to say and he wouldn't do it. Very big on sentimental soliloquys but dead set on not looking at his own stuff or offering you the simplest crumb of acknowledgement. All words, no action. I finally had to draw a hard line, for my own health. And it was the best thing I ever did but I suspected things would end this way and they did.

He really made an effort early in life. He saw what was going on and would take my mom to coffee shops and tell her "We can't kill her spirit." Later in life he joined her and they tag-teamed with abandon. They had two wonderful friends who were both counselors and they would greet me at the door when I showed up in tears and sandwich me in hugs. They told me they did see that my parents were remarkably codependent and that I wasn't crazy. My dad is gone now and my mother is, in many ways better for it. She's was always a delight when he wasn't around. We would return laughing and happy from a day out and he would pout and scowl. It was so messed up.

But really...thank you. I wish you all the best... ♥
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"There's a desperation in your determination to fight me on every point that tells me this isn't about me or my mom." - the OP says, having just argued that I haven't met any of the persons concerned.

On every point? One point. I selected one, which however I believe to be a telling one. The only other comment I have made on this thread has been to applaud Alva's measured initial answer.

The irony is not that I did care for my mother at home until the end of her life, though it is very kind of BB to remember that. The irony is that, in my new working life, service policy is so strongly in favour of elders' aging in place that during the last week alone, as part of a team, I supported three individuals whose quality of life I feel strongly would be much better managed in residential care.

I won't mince matters: I doubt if my co-workers have ever read our corporate documents because they are about health and social care service commissioning, dry as dust, and scarcely relevant to the daily reality of meeting individuals' needs. So it escapes us, as we drive round the county keeping people clean, fed, on time with their medications, dressed as they prefer to be, warm (or cool), comforted, safe... It doesn't enter in to what we actually do all day that the purpose of our service is to save public money. A stitch in time saves nine; a worker reporting a uti in time for prompt treatment prevents a hospital admission; a team helping a person adapt at home to disabilities or failing abilities prevents permanent admission to residential care at enormous public expense.

I am aware that our jobs are there to save money, and the principle isn't distasteful to me. I am very glad to know that my modest wages assist sound economic policy. But that isn't why I leave home at six in the morning and skip to my car: I love this job because I actually do believe in supporting individual choice, and if it is humanly possible to achieve sustainable quality of life to the end of life at home I will do my level best to contribute to it.

So my answer to the question "does my mom have the right to choose who cares for her?" is an emphatic yes. Absolutely she does. And she first exercised it when she created POA and gave it to the child she trusted to make sound decisions in her best interests.

But it doesn't stop there, and it doesn't end ever. If the mother is unhappy, if the POA has not attempted to take her known preferences into account, if there are still options which might improve her quality of life, there is scope for review of her care plan. Always. No decision has to be final as long as mother is still with us.

I repeat that I haven't attempted to read every post because I am tired and I have just completed an eight day working week. But one update from the OP stated that Step One of her proposed new care plan was to remove mother from her ALF, take her out of state, and then apply for guardianship.

I am going to relax with a cup of tea and amuse myself by picturing the expression on the Head of Adult Safeguarding's face if that proposal were put to her.
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BurntCaregiver May 2022
Country,

Many times giving a person what they need is not the same as giving them what they want.
The mother who gave her POA over to the "bad" sister. Her reasons are her own.
She does not want to be in an AL facility so is crying to her other daughter (the OP) about it because she wants out.
I always advise a person to think long and hard before deciding to take on the caregiving of a needy elder in their home. Think doubly hard if the elder is already in facility care.
As you would know from being an experienced in-home caregiver yourself, it's never what people think it's going to be.
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Siblings fighting for attention of a parent?

Victim (Mom) Persucuter (Sister) Rescuer (OP). That's what I see here. Standard drama triangle.

Please get out of the triangle!

Put MOM'S needs centre. She needs dementia specialised care. Not a dream. Even a well intentioned one.

Be a good visitor for your Mom instead.
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AlvaDeer May 2022
I almost always agree with you. I don't see that here and we don't have the Sister's view nor do we know the Mom's diagnosis.
What I see here is a Sister who was chosen as POA by her parent when they were well and alive, a father who was caring for a mother with dementia, and who died, a sister with POA who has placed her Mom in good care, and is now being attacked in every single way under the earth for doing what is her duty.
Our OP has accused Sister and BIL who she has been out of contact with for 25 years of cheating, of shooting a dog in the head, of abuse, of narcissism.
I see an OP who is unrealistic, who lives in RV and who talks of all the money her Dad made by being in Netflix, who says she thinks her Mom (who has dementia) can buy one half a home and I don't know who buys the other half, and she can care for her Mom.
I see a sister so overwhelmed by her attacks that she has said "Welcome to her; make the arrangements" but who is meanwhile protecting Mom and her money.
That's what my impression is of this situation.
So it shows to me, just how two of us can look at a situation and come out believing polar opposites.
Were I the sister I would have a restraining order by now.
Were I the OP I would visit, be loving and supportive to my Mom and comfort her without putting her in the middle of this.
But that's just me.
Others here believe ever single word our OP has uttered after 25 years absence from the scene.
I would be happy to see the OP take this guardianship case to court; and sad for her loss of 10,000 and the court case to do it.
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pleasegodhelp,

Bottom line. Bewteen you and your sister you're the one who cares about your mom and wants to care for her. Your mom wants to be with you as well. There's no good enough reason why that isn't happening.
You say your sister doesn't care if you take the responsibility for mom, so long as she stays in control of the money. So that pretty much tells me what's nearest and dearest to her heart and it's not your mother.
People don't always have to take the high road on everything. Sometimes it's okay to do a small bad thing if it will result in greater good.
Your sister is allowed to be unreasonable because no one really calls her out on anything. You're holding one valuable card though. You probably won't even have to play it. Just the threat that you have the option to will likely be enough to get your sister to see reason and sign over POA to you legally.
Ask her if her if holding onto mom's POA to be in control of her money is more important to her than her marriage. She'll be reasonable.
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BarbBrooklyn May 2022
At least in my state, you can't "sign over" POA on someone else. Eldercare attorney advice is desperately needed in this fraught situation.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/transferring-power-of-attorney
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PGH,
Go to the al. Be there for every waking moment for two weeks to observe exactly where mom is adl wise and observe exactly how the caregivers handle her needs.
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Beatty May 2022
Yes. Trial of care duties. Excellent idea.
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PGH, I'm glad you reached out to whatever authorities and gotten consistent direction. I would still consult with an eldercare attorney to make sure that your actions would not be considered illegal.

At least where I live, one cannot "drop someone off" at an Assisted Living Facility. An assessment must be done before admission and the person judged in need of the support of an ALF for ADLs, medication management and/or other things.

I apologize for misunderstanding something you wrote previously; I thought it was your SISTER who had written to your mother, outlining what your mother was no longer capable of, not BIL.

Again, I am assuming that you are basing all of your decisions on verified communications from Sis and BIL, and not your mom's reportage. Folks with dementia, even mild dementia or mild cognitive impairment can be wildly inaccurate in their perception of what is being said to them. How do I know? Well, I went through this with my mom, who would "hear" what was being said to her by doctors, discharge planners, family. When I sought verification, there was simply no rhyme or reason to what she was telling me.

I am in the midst of trying to let my MCI-diagnosed DH arrange his own cataract surgery; his ability to remember what has been said to him accurately is no more. I went out for a few minutes the other day and came back to find that what he thought was the surgery and the pre-surg testing that he'd arranged (all in one day) was not what the scheduler had told him at all. And he was convinced that he'd spoken to her 2 days before, when the actual appointment t had only been yesterday. Trust, but verify.

Find that lawyer. Being charged with kidnapping is no joke.
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babsjvd May 2022
You are so right about what was said , and what was actually said. My mom told her care givers she didn’t have to walk to the dining room anymore pur the doctor…. Doctor actually said she preferred she go for meals but if she didn’t she needed to walk the hall twice a day…neither ever happened…
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PGH, the more you write, the more light you shed on what is/was clearly an extremely dysfunctional family dynamic.

You might want to seriously consider, before you commit to moving mom in and becoming her 24/7 caregiver, seeking therapy to help you navigate these emotions that seem to be roiling up, for your own sake. Because if you commit to this without it, the emotional overload alone is going to chew you up and spit you out.

I hope you can find a solution that will give you peace.
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My sister does know that I know about things that I never asked to know and that one day I could tell her kids. I've never threatened to say a word and never would tell them but I know it gives her pause which is why she's just lashing out passive-aggressively rather than more overtly and why I don't think she'd take things too far once I get all this rolling. She's not very strong, is constantly sick and would probably bow out after firing a few shots over the bow.

When we lived near one another her daughter who was very young really loved me and asked her mom one night if she could stay for dinner. She returned to the table after calling her and looked really sad. We asked why. She said, "I shouldn't have asked her that. She sounded really sad." She was emotionally manipulating her own kids. Over a dinner invitation. My mom said later, "You know why she doesn't want you living here -- she's afraid her kids will like you more than her."
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BurntCaregiver May 2022
pleasegodhelp,

I've been an in-home caregiver by profession for almost 25 years. I'm currently one to my 80-something dysfunctional mother. So, I can speak from experience.
Assuming responsibility for a needy, elderly person, living with them, and being their caregiver 24/7 is never what a person thinks it's going to be. Especially when the elder is already in facility care.
Please think long and hard about what you're wanting to take on here.
My screen name is BurntCaregiver for a reason. Please don't make a decision until you talk to the people who care for your mother now in the AL. I don't mean the social workers or administration pencil-pushers. I mean the CNA's in the facility. Go and observe what their work day with your mother looks like. Don't make a hasty decision.
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To those suggesting I go for guardianship first (thanks for your responses).... I was told by both of the reps at the elder abuse departments in two states that the first thing I need to do is get her out of state. The were very adamant about this. We would essentially be seeking asylum. Starting the process of evaluation at a safe distance. We need time and space for her to share her feelings and get things in order so that once it all goes down my sister can't completely cut off our contact with each other. She can't see it coming. We need to have some support in place so that she understands she can't manipulate the situation. I need to get documents filed, and get her to doctors to confirm she is well enough to make her own decisions. I very much doubt my sister had any evaluations done before dropping her at AL. She just didn't want to take care of her and is now claiming she needs more professional supervision that she needs. Again, I know she needs a lot of assistance, 24/7 assistance, but I do believe I can provide that, along with some hired help. I need to see for myself what the doctor's say because nothing she says can be trusted.
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