I am trans (Female to Male) and wear "male clothing" such as ties. I am pressured to keep in contact with my grandfather. I am pressured to meet with him, but the family tells me to take off my ties. Grandpa is of sound mind. My parents and uncle say that the ties will upset him. I haven't seen or spoken to him in years, since knowing that I transitioned would hurt his feelings and I didn't want to cause him pain. My compromise was not to hurt his feelings but also not to hurt my feelings by pretending to be someone I am not. My parents can make something up for why I can't speak to grandpa, like I lost my phone or am out of the country. I don't waive it in anyone's face, but I don't change my style of dress for anyone. I am considerate, so if it's an event at a nice restaurant, I will wear "male" dress pants rather than "male" jeans, which I wear normally, but I will not wear a dress or skirt just to please someone's emotions. Because grandpa grew up in a conservative environment, my therapist said he is unable to understand. But, I think, it's more "unwilling." Regardless of how he grew up, if he wants to accept me, he will. If he wants to learn about LGBTQ culture, he can. It's a choice. But age and background aren't excuses for intolerance. But I know he won't accept it and seeing me in a tie will make him upset. Calling me by my male name will make him upset. So I just stay away. A therapist told me that I am being selfish and inflexible by refusing to take off my tie. My therapist said if I truly love someone, like a family member, I will take off my tie in an act of compassion. My therapist said I am lacking in compassion. Is the therapist right or is the therapist a homophobe?
I don't know how I could talk to grandpa, because then I'd have to say I am interested in "female" things, like dance and cooking, and not the truth, which is tools and sports ("male" interests). I can't introduce him to the girl I am dating and would have to lie. If he asks me what I am reading, I'd have to lie, as I mostly read stuff about trans issues. So I am worried that if I start lying, I'll forget and eventually get caught. I understand lying at work to protect myself, but you shouldn't have to lie to family.
You say you are being “pressured” to keep in touch with your grandfather. It doesn’t sound as if you want to keep in touch??? I don’t know that it is healthy to try and maintain a healthy and positive relationship with someone of sound mind, while you are lying about yourself the whole time making yourself uncomfortable.
This is what I would say to any trans member of my family: don’t be pressured to be something you are not. Dress in clothes that make you feel comfortable. It is not selfish to wear a tie. Visit people that make you happy and don’t care about how you dress. If you feel unsafe at work, find a place that makes you feel safe. Find a new therapist. And I love you.
If he's got dementia, well even if he is accepting, he will forget by the next visit, and if not it's just an agitation. So, if you love him and just want a quick visit out of respect for that love, visit in your normal clothes,sans tie if you think that would be an issue. Make some small talk, bring photos to look at, change the subject if you don't like it like the books you read," too busy to read much right now, did you hear about xxx?. With dementia you have to live in their reality not yours. Yesterday, my mom and I talked about her day at work and what she and dad did for dinner last night. ( my dad is deceased and she hasn't worked in 20 yrs). If your relatives are an issue, visit without them there.
I guess the main thing is that to not have regrets. If he died tomorrow, would you regret not at least making the effort?
You have also said Grandpa can't accept you and will get upset by you, and you don't know how to talk to him because he would expect you to talk about certain things, so why go?
Sounds like you'd be doing Grandpa a favour and yourself by not going to see him.
I didnt have issues with my grandparents because they died when I was young.
I had issues more with parents, step parents, extended family and their friends, because of homophobia and abuse. I was subjected to repeated pressure to assist with care and finances for a parent who was estranged because of homophobia and abuse. It took a lot to resist this pressure. And for the vast majority of the time I only did what I wanted to do and assisted to the extent I wanted to.
Your situation sounds like it might be a bit different in that you love and care for your grandfather. Forget about selfish or otherwise, that doesnt really seem relevant. I think its more about your relationship with your grandfather. If he is someone important to you then it is worth making some effort. If not, then it is not. That doesnt mean being gender conforming though. But, maybe its about easing the tension for both of you. It sounds like turning up your complete self will be uncomfortable for you as well. If he hasnt seen you transition. What about gradually breaking the ice. eg moderating things a bit. Starting more feminine with a first visit and then gradually changing and easing him into it.
That said, if you dont really have a good relationship with your grandfather then forget it, do whatever you want and dont visit him. But, I think it all really depends on relationships. If he has been good to you then it makes sense to be good to him. Having endured abuse and homophobia with estranged parents I felt little desire to focus on their needs and wants. But, your situation may not be like mine was.
You indicate already that you won't compromise, yet now the family (who presumably knows you won't compromise) is "pushing you" to see him after dissuading you because they felt he would get upset?
My guess, the family just hopes that you show up in unisex garb, ask him about his life, his aches and pains and above all don't make a federal case out of deadnaming/pronouns and trans ideology. If he slips and calls you Mary not Marv, or calls you "she," well that's kind of to be expected if that's all he has known you as.
If that is unacceptable f2f then launch the relationship over facetime or even old school mail.
Seems like family members are thinking for the grandfather.
Most grandfathers would love an intelligent visit or letter or phone call to discuss sports, tools, the latest technology, and asking their opinion. Visit if comfortable for you, wear a tie; and be you. A well written letter is good, too.
Yes, you will get a question about relationship. It's important to that generation. Be honest: "this is my partner". If he is very old he really will get your name wrong. Try to let it go, in this case. He's old.
As the previous poster noted, your grandfather might have more perception and experience than you are lead to believe. At the same time, understand grandfather's experience ; including how close relative are influencing him, and might be part of the visit dynamics.
You are correct, just be honest.
"I don't know how I could talk to grandpa, because then I'd have to say I am interested in "female" things, like dance and cooking, and not the truth, which is tools and sports."
My daughters are straight but I have not seen them dress in a dress since they were little. One goes from scrubs to jeans. The other wears jeans all day. She tends to the darker colors in her tops. Is not into bright colors. Shops in the mens section for Tshirts because womens are too "girlie". Even buys mens sneakers because womens can be too girlie. I have never sat with any man and discussed cooking and dancing. My Dad would have loved it if I had known anything about sports. Both my girls played softball. I am not even a girlie girl. When I put on a nice pair of slacks and a top my DH thinks I am dressed up. I also have not worn a dress since the 70s. When pant suits came in, that was it for dresses.
I really feel that you should have come out to ur grandfather 8 years ago. Yes, he might have been upset but he also would have gotten over it by now. Visit grandpa alone, as suggested. Dress the way you want. Talk about what you know and are comfortable with. If he asks about cooking or dancing say you have really never been interested in either. How about those Eagles though. (U can tell where I live) Never lie. Be true to yourself. What is there to lose. Look at it this way, if you had come out to grandpa 8 yrs ago you either would have not talked the last 8 years anyway or you would have had a relationship based on who you are. If you don't "come out" now you will never know if you can have a relationship or not. And the tie, thats all up to you but sometimes we all compromise to make the other person feel comfortable. Maybe, just the first time, you can not wear it, other than that, dress the way you normally do. Then the next time wear a tie.
IMO this therapist should be helping you be you. Showing you how to be comfortable with who you are. When you are comfortable with who you are, then you have confidence in yourself and people see that confidence I think they except better. I really think your therapist is wrong in their approach. Its not just you being comfortable with "who you are" but people being comfortable with "who you are". People can't be comfortable with who you are" until you are upfront about "who you are". And if they never except "who you are", then you may just have to see less of them. You should never be made to feel uncomfortable. If you are, then you walk away from the situation. Never try to justify yourself but be tolerant. I think u need a different therapist.
I grew up with a cousin who was gay and we lived in a very small town. He went to College out of State and never moved back. He found he could be himself. He is a much happier person. Has confidence in who he is and does not apologize for it, "This is me take it or leave it".
Now Grandpa has been cut off through no fault of his own and has to deal with that abandonment. Why do you think that's sparing his feelings in any way? I think you're more concerned with sparing yours than his.
Now he's years behind the rest of the family in knowing and accepting who you are today, and will you hold that against him, too? When you transitioned, did everyone immediately jump on board and start calling you by your new name and never slip up?
Understand that your grandfather knows you as a girl because you haven't given him the opportunity to know you any other way. It's as though he has a photo of a 12-year-old with braces, pigtails, and glasses, and suddenly there's a full grown man in front of him saying, "Don't you know me?"
Again, not fair.
As far as the ties, whatever. Is that the hill you're going to die on -- a tie? Same goes for your family, by the way. It's not really worth discussing one way or the other.
I think you should at least give your grandfather a chance. Cross-dressing, homosexuality, or any other thing like that wasn't exactly invented yesterday. He's probably seen a lot more than you know. Don't make it all about you and go into victim mode before you even see him. If you want to live in this world, you'll have to be like the rest of us and step up and take on what life brings. Spending your life cloistered away only among people who understand you will make for a very small existence.
Do you really wear ties 24/7 or is it about sending a message loud and clear? You can talk about your job or a vacation or a great dinner or movie or the weather instead of girl or boy activities. You can learn a few jokes or deflect a question with a generalized comment and follow with a question (Reading? nothing special. What are you reading?) Or just ask questions. People associate love with interest in their lives so it’s an easy win. You can bring a friend who’s male or female or 4-legged and not get carried away with uncomfortable antics. (E.g. Guest dog terrifying a 10 yo cat cuz dog can sniff her out… isn’t that cute?)
It’s fair to want to be called by the name you call yourself. But if Grandpa refuses, it’s flotsam in the scheme of things.
So here’s the question: what’s really going on? If it’s anger that the family doesn’t approve, are you willing to hand them the power to destroy your relationship with your grandfather? If it’s that your grandfather won’t approve, you might have to accept that and meet him halfway. But consider this: A friend once said “the more enlightened you are, the more the burden is on you to take the high road.” It gets tiresome when all you want to do is go low, but on the flip side you can take great personal pride in being enlightened.
Btw… No, there’s nothing you say the therapist said to indicate a homophobic attitude. And yes, your therapist might be 100% correct saying you can’t teach an old conservative dog any new tricks.
I hope you strive to be enlightened in spite of the aaargh that comes with it. It is really good for the inner spirit to transcend all the crap around you.
If you, truly and of your own volition, want to interact with grandpa, call him. Otherwise, ciao. Sending you a huge hug because I can't even begin to fathom the stress in your life.
I would go see him alone, no other relative or partner present (all distractions) so that just you will shine through. You can choose to disclose your identity journey to him, and maybe if he understands the pain it most probably caused (and is still causing) he may soften up. The original definition of tolerance is allowing others who are very different from you to co-exist with you in peace -- it does NOT mean they have to accept your viewpoints nor do you need to accept theirs. I wish you great wisdom and much peace in your heart.
There was no "sermon" given there - I just said what I felt...Just Like You Did!
And I respectfully disagree with much of what you said...I guess that's our right! I wouldn't even know where to begin...
I don't feel Anyone should change who they are and suppress themselves to satisfy others' conservative, old-fashioned beliefs and antiquated, narrow-minded and hateful way of thinking. Knowledge is power, and the only way anyone who has an ignorant mindset can actually change is by educating themselves - to open up their world. I'm trying to understand why CaregiverBlues should accept less respect than the others in his family?? Because he shouldn't.
CaregiverBlues was treated horribly growing up and why should He have to keep his sexual identity "at home?" It's enough already. I assume you don't keep your sexual identity at home - you wear what you like and you are who you are...well, he should be given the same grace and dignity.
In your response, you are actually referring to ideals that people lived during the "1950's"....well, times have changed and thankfully it's 2021 now and I don't chose to live in the past with close-minded ways of thinking.
You stated, "These past generations also understood the value of discretion. It being the greater part of valor after all and there are times and situations where there's no need to "educate" anyone." Wow, I couldn't Disagree more - my choice. There's no real valor or value in discretion - it's only suppressing a person. Acceptance is Key. And especially after CaregiverBlues has been abused growing up.
Life is all about doing better...being better...learning more...and moving forward. :-)
I agree with you about no one should have to change and suppress themselves to satisfy others. In a perfect world no one would have to. Yet, pretty much every person in the world does just this every moment of the day in one way or another.
Did you ever want to tell your boss to F-off? I certainly have over the years. We suppress our tempers because every action has a reaction. The reaction is getting fired and losing the job. As you know from the forum here, I've been an in-home caregiver for a very long time. The majority of clients on my service being elderly. Know how many times I had to suppress myself from saying and doing things that would certainly warrant such action for any person who wasn't elderly? Or how many times on a daily basis I've had to "change" who I was for a time because agreeing with the client and what they see on Fox News during the 18 hours a day they spend watching it, is the only way I can get my work done. Or the many times I've suppressed telling some elderly client repeating themselves over and over to STFU? More times than I can count.
We all suppress ourselves and temporarily "change" to get through our daily lives. If we didn't there would be no civilization and the world would fall into chaos.
It really wouldn't be such a huge sacrifice for CaregiverBlues to leave the menswear at home when visiting their elderly grandfather.
You know, sometimes it's better to be happy then to be right.
If taking off your tie s so infuriating to them, then may I suggest that further measures such as hormone therapy won't persuade them nor can you explain it to them. You only read trans stuff so I assume you think Abigail Shrier is some sort of devil, but yeah, transitioning all these young females who might have been goth or anorexic or cutters in pretrans times isn't really helping them.
It's their right.
They don't have to be demonstrative to you. I mean at best this is a situation where you go to thanksgiving at your consent.
If you cannot handle it, then do not go..
I don't feel that you should conform to any family member's criteria. BE WHO YOU ARE !! AND BE PROUD OF THAT !! :-)
And if they are living in some backwards way of thinking, then it's their loss. I wouldn't modify myself for that. They need to look beyond surface and only see you for who you are inside - beautiful qualities. Maybe they need to focus more and change themselves instead.
I've spent my life having my family and some extended family critiquing the guys I dated..what I wear..what I say..what I do, etc...and I'm in fashion, and they were more critical than anyone I could imagine - on every little thing....and it effected me - so looking back, I regret ever taking in anything they said to even matter - so in hearing the enormity of what you've had to go through, my heart really goes out to you because it must have been incredibly difficult.
If they cannot accept you on your terms then too bad on them. They need to spend time educating themselves...and learning what tolerance, acceptance, understanding really is - and broaden their mindset. There are numerous books they can read to become more enlightened...and maybe that's a first step. In my opinion, you don't need to change a thing...the change should happen with Them!
And in reading a later message of yours, you said that your dad wants you to show "respect and loyalty" to the family by doing elder care giving. Oh my gosh...they need to show You equal respect - for who you are - it goes both ways. In my opinion, I would step back and not put yourself in an uncomfortable or hurtful situation....and I would put the onus on your family members - let them educate themselves and accept and love the person that you are. They are expecting a lot from you with nothing in return.
Wishing you all the very best and continued strength!
Does there always have to be a sermon though? Sometimes people can leave the "educating" of others at home along with the sexual identity. This is true when dealing with elderly people. Especially ones who are political or religious conservatives.
I find that most elderly people came from times where most people simply did not discuss certain things like sexuality, sexual identity, or really anything involving sex including pregnancy which was something that was kept much concealed and private. Just look at maternity clothes from the 1950's as proof of this. Some things were private and kept that way. Today people are private about nothing. It's appropriate to openly discuss anything. Giving intimate and private details about one's life to anyone and everyone is commonplace now. It wasn't in generations past with people who are now elderly. These past generations also understood the value of discretion. It being the greater part of valor after all and there are times and situations where there's no need to "educate" anyone.
It should be a hard NO from Caregiverblues to the family on becoming a caregiver. If they don't want to take that on then they absolutely should not take it on.
I've seen MANy straight women wear ties as a fashion accessory and don't think twice about it. I don't think any of this is about ties at all.
I have 2 gay nephews--both my sister's boys are gay. One came out kind of quietly in college, and the other did it 'loudly' in high school, which could have been a real problem as high schoolers are not the most compassionate. To my knowledge, there was ZERO backlash. this kid is totally comfortable in his own skin. In our family, it was a complete non issue. We just love them. End of discussion.
they are respectful that my 91 yo mom wouldn't accept this and they have not told her, and that was their choice. they RESPECt that this elderly woman is pretty clueless and there is zero chance it would even get through her fuzzy brain. It might or might not be an issue for her, nobody knows.
I can't believe your family would expect you to be granddad's CG--no matter what your sexual identity it. you obviously don't have a good backstory with him or Grandma, so if I were you, I'd just not see them , or be prepared to walk out the door if you are offended too much to hang around for a visit. Don't start a fight and don't get involved in one. Walk away.
I get why you are so anxious about this--but there's no need to do so. If you are old enough to make the decision to transition, they you are an adult making your own decisions. If Grandpa wants a relationship with you as you are, then great. If not, Ok, his loss.
My original suggestions remain. Stop trying to create narratives as if you are defining your grandfather to be either the person your ‘therapist’ imagines, or the person you hope to define and educate. You either accept grandpa as is, and find a way to enjoy the contact human-to-human without ideological expectations, or you communicate by phone or letter to keep a relationship and contact but maintain a distance. Or you step away.
If the other relatives you describe, and their expectations of you as a regular care worker, rather than a visitor, are real, those are the folks you need to create some distance from. If you really want to see your grandpa, based on your comments and added info, it sounds like seeing him alone, with no others there - possibly without them even knowing about it - may be what would be best to aim for. Again, I wish you the best and hope it ultimately turns out happy for you however you go forward.
Get away from your family's assumptions and rigidty and especially from their expectation that you become granddad's caregiver.
Healthy families donn't act this way.
It's odd to me that your therapist wants you to have compassion and you consider the therapist to possibly be a 'homophobe', yet you want to flaunt your sexuality in grandpa's face without 'lies' and expect him to embrace it wholeheartedly. Why should everyone be expected to embrace YOUR lifestyle while you aren't expected to show compassion for theirs? Respect is a two-way street; realize that and your life may get a bit easier.
Ditch the tie and go visit grandpa, it's just that simple. Leave the g/f home, talk about neutral subjects such as your childhood and HIS hobbies and HIS life b/c who doesn't like to talk about their own life, after all? You're making a big deal out of your sexual orientation and how you identify when you should be putting all that aside and just visiting with grandpa now. No, you can't possibly 'take care of him', but you sure CAN visit with him periodically, and that's that. I am a woman who identifies as a woman and I can tell you 100% that I don't talk to my elderly mother about cooking, dancing, baking or fashion. We mostly just talk about HER and her aches and pains, her friends that get her aggravated, and what's going on in HER life. My life issues never enter the discussion b/c my mother has no interest in my life at all. She just checks to see if I've gained weight; that's her main focus in life: appearance. If I haven't gained 100lbs or shaved my head, it's all okay.
If you go visit grandpa and the discussion turns ugly, invent a reason why you have to suddenly leave and then do so. You're not being asked to move in with him, just to go visit. Leave all the trans issues at home and go visit the man you've known all your life who loves you, the person you are and always have been, deep inside. That's really where the human connection lies.
Good luck.
No, you shouldn't have to live a lie and pretend to be someone you're not. You have nothing to be ashamed of and someone my age, who is a progressive and social liberal from the bluest state in the Union would totally accept you for the person you are.
An elderly man from a conservative back round isn't able to. So, it comes down to this question.
How much do you love your grandfather and family? Do you love them enough to leave the menswear at home to attend a special family function your grandfather will be at?
You don't have to pretend to be someone else. You don't have to be a provocateur either when your grandfather is involved.
My best friend is gay Latino man. My late father was a homophobic racist. Yet he liked him very much. Know why? Because he doesn't fit the negative stereotypes put on Puerto Rican people and gays. In other words, he keeps the the flame low on both. Now, my father knew he is both. It wasn't an issue because nobody made it one. My friend is not the kind of guy who waits for someone to offend him. Or the person that has to be the social activist in every situation regardless of the occasion or whether or not they will cause harm and ruin it.
Now, nobody is saying you have to put on an evening gown and a tiara when interacting with your grandfather. I'm sure no one expects you to either. You can leave the tie and menswear at home though. You can dress plainly in unisex clothing around him.
I've been on the forum a lot of years and I have seen this accusation spiral into a sh*t storm of hate filled comments, if you don't believe the story then you don't have to play, just move along. For me I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt so long as any OP is willing continue the dialogue and to to engage in a respectful manner.
Who continues contact with a paid therapist that tells you it is okay for a grown man to physically attack a preteen female for playing with the boys? Who even wonders if they should visit someone that instigated that kind of action?
Yeah, I'll post what I want, sorry, not sorry.
My imagination may have taken me to reality tv shows and I apologize if I have it all wrong or if my ignorance of other communities comes across as disrespectful.
So you have been raised to revere GP as the head of your rigid conservative family where men wear ties and women dresses and sexual roles and obligations are clearly defined.
The tie represents to you being a man as much as a dress represents being a woman.
Grandma has become the enforcer (along with uncle who is her right arm) when either sex deviates too far from the mandated and traditional code of conduct. Assuming here she uses abuse on the “children” and shunning on the adults to instill her teachings. Grandpa appears to have a softer approach and uses bribes instead of violence to maintain the status quo.
Your presence is wanted at a meeting but only if you abstain from what would be seen as your attention seeking cross dressing which is abhorrent to the code…in other words. Don’t wear a tie.
The therapist, apparently from or of the same conservative background, has encouraged you to attend the meeting which is to lead to becoming a caregiver sans tie, coexist with the abusers, be willing to LIE if not in deed, then by omission.
You, smelling a rat, say you will consider attending but only as yourself, in your chosen identity represented by the tie. To not wear the tie might give the household the wrong impression and dilute your intention of living your own life as you see fit.
The therapist appears to be playing on your life long instilled respect and familial love for your grandpa to change your mind. The therapist seems to be under the influence of the same code.
questions.
The choice of this therapist….is he chosen and paid for by the family? Is he routinely used to talk around the malcontents where the beatings aren’t quiet as effective as hoped for? Is the therapist going to get a bonus if you attend the meeting?
Will your parents be leaned on to cut you off if you don’t conform? Is the uncle the heir apparent once GP is gone?
Are you a student and/or are you gainfully employed within the community?
How old are these generations? Are your parents in their 40s?
You may not agree with their methods but you seem to respect your family. Would you have the same expectations of your girlfriend as your family had of you as a woman?
Is your girlfriend from your community, does she understand your background? Is your Girlfriend also trans?
I don’t think I’ll ever look at a tie the same way again.
EDIT
I see you have answered many of my questions so I edited my post.
I hate to say this but your problem is with your dad. He is asking you to perform to him what is woman’s work. Where does your mother enter in? Is it the custom in your family for unmarried daughters to be farmed out to family members in need? I think I’d start wearing a tie too.
Please consider a “real” therapist that will work with you and your dad.
In terms of my girlfriend, no, I would never expect that from her. The family knows about the trans stuff. They've known since I was a kid because of the way I dressed and the roles and kid's games I liked to play. This is nothing new. It's nothing that's been known since pre-school. I don't talk about my dating life with my family. That is private. But I can't change my outward appearance, such as my men's haircut. I don't own any women's clothing anymore, such as a dress or skirt.