Dad (93) still has his checkbook & gives money he can't afford to my leeching brother. I am POA, can I take my Dad's checkbook?

So, I'm probably not the best one to give advice. But I'll give you a suggestion. Does he have dementia? If yes, then maybe take the checkbook. I am my mom's POA also, and my sister doesn't always have the best of intentions either. It took me a while-and this may sound controlling and maybe harsh. But I had to do what I had to do to look after my Mom's best interest, financial and otherwise. When my mom was of 'sound' mind it was different, because that was her decision, and she allowed my sister to take financial advantage of her. Charge off on her perfect credit score, etc. My mom told me about some things at that time, but she wouldn't change things. And that was their 'thing' that I stayed out of. And now that she needs so much care? No sister to help out.

FYI. Here's the harsh part. I eliminated her from the equation, financially. Took me a minute, or a year. But, it was in my Mom's best interest. And the sad part, when my sister asked me for money, because the 'well had gone dry' with my Mom's money, I gave it to her one time. A loan to her, which was never paid back of course. So, done. No more.

I vote take it away, one way or another. He doesn't have the money. You are subsidizing him. Stop the insanity.

Tell your dad you can no longer afford to subsidize his rent.

How do you know that his cognitive skills are intact? Has he had a real workup?

Have a talk with Dad. Say you know, I could take care of your finances for you. A more realistic budget may allow you to remain financially independent for a longer time. You would still have spending money, and I would always report to you in writing.

Not unless he is incompetent. If he can give money to brother than you don't need to foot half the bill. Tell him that. Its not fair you are giving only to have brother taking, If Dads IL supplies his meals not much more he needs, Utlities shouldn't be much. Does he participate in outings, use a bus to get around? I would leave what he needs in spending money and use the rest for rent and utilities, Then there is nothing for brother.

Only if your dad is competent. But why are your funds being used? If dad has money, he should be paying you, not your brother.  Have you insisted on this as a matter of honesty and fairness?

If your dad is competent, you cannot. You can only change your own actions. You might tell your dad that you will reduce your contribution to his rent if he gives your brother more than a certain amount of money.

I don't know how much money your brother is taking from your dad but if it doesn't impact his ability to pay his part of the rent, you might just chalk it up as a hobby or bad habit he has. Giving money to your brother probably makes him feel needed.

I have a couple of questions, if he doesn't have dementia why are you active POA? I can understand the need to have POA on file in case he takes a downturn but while his mind is still sharp why are you handling things? Cognitive impairment comes in many forms, even mild impairment can cause problems understanding the managing of money. If his mind is fine and he's just stubbornly behaving irresponsibly, then I agree with the others that said to tell him that you are going to stop paying half the rent since he has so much money he can give it away. Then actually stop paying the rent. It's harsh but maybe getting that eviction notice or letter of overdraw from the bank is what it will take to get him to realize he can't keep giving away money he doesn't have.

This is a tough one. When my dad was in IL the only thing he needed money for was trips to the grocery store. He used his credit card for that. I am his POA and handled all his bills through automatic draft and also writing any checks.
I don’t see why he needs checks.
Sounds like your brother is a bit of a mooch and I’m not sure why you pay half but obviously dad has spending money enough to give to the moocher. I’d say to dad "let me keep Your checkbook safe and to pay bills with and I’ll give you cash for incidentals". Also that he can use a credit card but ONLY if you deem that safe.
On another note, I don’t trust brother. Be sure dad's credit reports are frozen with the 3 credit reporting agencies if you haven’t done that yet. Congress finally made that free. That way brother, nor anyone else can take out loans or steal his identity. Set up an account with social security and the IRS so that those too can’t be used by someone else. There are so many scammers and fraudsters out there. Be sure your dad knows about the scam callers out there and to just hang up. My sister's MIL who is very intelligent was scammed out of 13,000 by a caller. It was unbelievable she fell for it but it happens. If he uses a computer be sure security and firewalls are in place. So much to think about.

Has he always had inability to meet financial needs, since you are paying have the rent? If not, his executive skills are starting to go. Does he do the yearly Medicare physical? If he doesn’t, he should to assess for future needs. Talk to his doctor about his changes if there are any. If you have the finances and want to cover his costs the next 10 years. (Many are living past 100) let it be. If not your other route is to stop supporting him, although that might just empty his funds sooner. Most important is to talk with him if possible to get his understanding of his finances. Perhaps he has the idea, he is not going to be here much longer, and he can’t take it with him, so why not help his brother. He also appears to think you have unlimited funds, that he does not mind you paying his way.

How did it come about that you’re paying half the IL rent? Does Dad know or what? Regardless, by doing so you are subsidizing brother by subsidizing Dad. You’re enabling them both — that’s usually what happens to the nice person when there is a manipulative person in the equation.

If Dad is of sound mind, then sitting with him to figure out his IL expenses without your money is in order. If he isn’t of sound mind, then he won’t be able to be in IL much longer, and his expenses will rise when moving to AL.

There seems to be at least one sibling that mooches while the parent is still alive and many who do not want to help with care but expect you to do it all for free so they can get the money. Does he seem to have gone thru any changes mentally lately? He may be giving your brother money out of longstanding habit. Are you on dad's accounts with him? You will be able to view transactions on the account however be aware that if he overdrafts the account you are also on the hook for making the bank whole again. Putting a credit freeze on his accounts is a very good idea, I have seen seniors talked into consigning loans to have primary default and now they are responsible. You are subsidizing him for 2400 a month? Sounds like you should talk to IL administrator, if he is switched over to AL would he be eligible for Medicaid? They would take over payments, using all of his SSI (he would have $60 a month for his own discretionary spending) and then he would not be able to give mooch money. Would also save you 2400 a month. Brother is not going to be helping you out in any way but I guarentee that he'll be the first in line with his hand out if there is anything at all left from the estate. Do you know how much dad has been giving him? Maybe bro needs a wakeup call, send him a bill for "loan" repayment. Or tell him that dad really can't afford to help him out financially anymore, that he can't even afford himself financially without help. Then again, mooch probably won't care. Do you have anything in place with dad to replace money you are spending? Repayment from life insurance policy? Get it in writing or you'll never see it. Keep records of transactions to IL that you have paid. Why does it always come down to the money with non-caregiving siblings? Only thing I think is worse is non-caregiving SIL who want it all but refuse to help when asked.

I was drawn to your question one of the reasons being the heading that I see in the list of questions is..."he does not have dementia"...now I see that nowhere in the question above and I do not see it in your profile. So I do not know where this information comes from.
but here goes...
If he does not have dementia you can not do anything to his accounts. (Although you might be able to if you are listed as being on the account and can withdraw money. write checks, close the account, things you could do with your own account.)
You say "age related decline" I think once a person starts making bad or I should say poor decisions it begins to move from being age related decline and more to the "dementia" realm. His next medical check should include testing for dementia, most doctors are doing that on a routine basis now if for no other reason but to get a baseline so determine how one changes from year to year.

I also think that you should not be paying for half of the Independent Living or Assisted Living bill. If he does not have the money you should begin the application process for Medicaid now. And keep in mind ANY money he has given to your brother will be looked at closely and may dramatically effect the possibility of Medicaid. Is your dad a Veteran? If so look to the VA for any number of resources as well. This is also a discussion you may have to have with your brother that he may either have to pay back money that was given to him and tell him the "well has dried up" and he needs to find other resources for his cash infusion.

I'm curious as to how your POA reads, as generally as POA you can manage all allowed affairs, until the POA is revoked, if he is not competent (medically proven), he cannot revoke it. Is your name on his account?

If you are having to pay partial support, brother should be stopped entirely.
This has to be causing friction and bad feelings, You should notify the brother in writing, laying out your level of support, and informing him that he is now misusing funds both Dad's and yours. As a first step.

There are other choices, but it might involve accusation of elder abuse.
You should make a ledger of all disbursements ffom Dad to brother

Avoid conservator ships /guardian ships, unless you fully understand consequences.

If Dad is still competent you should update Will Living Trust, POA, and Advance Health Care directive. Before it is too late

It depends on your POA. Read it. A general POA can be issued that instantly gives the agent power over everything, no need for the person to become incompetent. I had it for my mom because her visual problems made it hard for her to write checks. I had it for my brother-in-law who was paralyzed. Both were mentally competent.
If your POA is effective now, you can take it to the bank and tell them you will be signing checks as POA. Taking his checkbook without his agreement would be illegal, however; and as long as he's not mentally incompetent, he can still do whatever he wants with his $. So your problem is not solved thereby unless you draw out all his funds so checks he writes are dishonored--be sure he doesn't have overdraft protection on the account.
Be aware that if he's mentally competent, he can revoke your POA. He could appoint your brother, or anyone he chooses.

I agree with the others who've told you to stop contributing to your brother. That's what you are doing now. If Dad wants to find a cheaper place to live so he can give your brother money, that's on him. Otherwise, he can pay his own rent up to his total income.

Is your dad afraid of your brother? You might want to get APS involved to check that out. Maybe they could warn your brother of the consequences of elder financial abuse.

Perhaps you could get Dad to an Elder Law attorney to prepare for possible Medicaid needs, living will, etc., and let the attorney explain to him the pitfalls of what he's doing, and also warn your brother in writing to knock it off.

I would not be paying half his rent if he can afford to give your brother money. Ask to keep the check book safe. She how he reacts them move from there.

I took in my 89-year-old mother after she was diagnosed with cancer. For at least a decade before that, she sent my mooching younger brother and his wife (who won't work much and never visited her) $600-$900 per month from her meager pension and social security income. She gave them all of her savings, allowed them to charge more than $8,000 on her credit card, and wasn't eating well, buying clothes, or going to the dentist.

After she moved in, I noticed she couldn't manage her checkbook and was suffering more mental decline than was visible during visits. We went to the bank and had my name added to Mom's checking account. I put a stop to the payments to my brother and explained to her that she'd soon need in-home care and she had to save her money for that as brother certainly would not be able to help. She didn't object much, so I think she knew on some level that my brother was taking advantage of her. Sending him money had just become a habit, like paying any other bill.

Guess what? Eighteen months later, my brother and his wife are managing just fine (though he still complains to Mom about money in every telephone conversation). Mom has been able to treat herself to some clothes and go to the dentist. She has accumulated enough money to cover at least some of her upcoming nursing needs.

Moochers are manipulators, pure and simple. The sooner they are stopped, the better for our parents.

i would be honest with dad and tell him that you are going to take his checkbook and start taking care of all of his finances. tell him
that it would be one less headache for him to take care of, as it needs to be balanced monthly and hasn't been in a while. explain to dad that he only receives a certain amount of money per month and it needs to be regulated properly monthly so that he doesn't extend himself.
i don't think you can take dads check book away from him if he says no, unless he is incompetent and can not handle it properly.
with my parents who both were had dementia at the same time, i did just that. he understood and i also was his POA.
good luck...

I am a nephew, primary (and only, really) caregiver with POA. I had to wrestle the finances away from my Aunt and it wasn't easy. She was paying hundreds each month in interest payments alone even though she had more than enough to pay off the balances. It took a while, but she's finally accepted it and this boat is now running as smoothly as can be expected. I'd recommend you do the same.

I took my mom to the bank and changed her account. It was her money, but I was the signer. So that solved the problem of my brother bleeding her to death. But she was pretty compliant and I could do things like that. I paid all her bills, took her out to dinner. She always ask, "Do I have enough money?" And I would say, "Yes, Your fine!

Yes take it. There is no way I would let my 88 year old mother alone with a checkbook. Countless errors were made when she had it prior to a move to AL. She has a credit card. We have had numerous discussions regarding any expenses put on it. When she asks for a check I write it out with her. I never leave her with a blank check even if she asks. She could wipe out the balance. I think you will be continually frustrated if you don't take control of the checkbook. It sounds as though it has already reached a problematic stage. There are so many frustrating situations with caregiving. At least take control where you can for the sake of all involved. You are really helping your father in the long run by preserving his assets.

You must inform your dad that you can no longer subsidize his rent as you cannot afford to do so.

Get a POA if possible. My mother is 86 and my brother has been mooching off her for 10 yrs. he threatened to put her in a nursing ho me until I took control of her accts and handle paying her bills. She pays all the living expenses. Food, utilities, etc while he continues living with her. He’s 57 with no job or ambition to get one. I’ve tried to get him to leave but he won’t and it’s caused much friction in the family because she chooses to support his lazy butt. The charge card spending has slowed down since I can see the account. Always one family member to mess things up. Hope you are able to convince your dad you’re trying to help.

I think if you subsidize your dad's living expenses then he can't give away money until he pays you back for your assistance - tell him give up the chequebook or you'll stop your half - basically you are giving that money to your brother - if dad can write those cheques to bro then he can pay his whole rent himself

After more thought, if you have POA,(and have invoked it) you are able to open new account for dad, taking brother out of the picture.Have it opened as a "for benefit of " account (FBO), you as POA as signer on the account instead of adding yourself as a signer on his existing account,so even if bro gets ahold of checks dad can not write checks to the leech, the bank can not honor it. Only you would be able to and we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon. Just a suggestion that allows you to get ahold of dad's financial outlook without putting yourself in a position of covering bounced checks and fees because of money given to brother without your knowledge

Ah, the mooching relative. Don't we all have one or three?

My brother and sister essentially cleaned out my parent's bank accounts and equity in their home and of course, this was never paid back. And they also got the most "royal" treatment from Mother.

The rest of us sibs did not know this was an ongoing thing, and we certainly would have put a stop to it, had we known.

Dad set things up prior to his passing that allows Mother to only write checks up to a certain amt and then it requires responsible brother to cosign. She shops all in cash now, however, once the mooching brother died, we all breathed a HUGE sigh of relief. He would have taken everything single thing she had if given half a chance.

If you had to pick one, would this question be about concern over your father's financial welfare, or about fury with your brother's exploitation of resources to which you contribute so handsomely?

It seems to me that the person to confront is your brother. What does he think he's doing, leaning on a gentleman of 93 like this?

The brother with Autism/Aspergers, even though an adult, needs to he taken to the Dept. of Rehabilitation and the Regional Center for support(s). He may be able to increase his income with a job coach and support. Assisting a person with Aspergers is often seen as coddling, but it is not. imo.

Your father, if fully informed about your brother's condition, might have set up a Special Needs Trust for brother for when he dies and can no longer help your brother.

From the outside, it does look like brother is a leech, but rather, he is likely a dependent due to Aspergers condition, and you, like the general public do not understand, but you can learn. Does he live independently? You can look into "Supported Housing" for brother.

You left out that important bit of information about your brothers neurological situation with Aspergers. I still think you can decide either to give rent to your dad or not. If you choose to then really you have nothing to complain about as you are enabling dad to have money to give away.