If she is only an AUTHORIZED USER of the card, she is not responsible for the debt in any state, in the USA.
If she is actually a co-owner of the credit card, and her social security number was used to get the card, then she is responsible.
It is unlikely however that your father used her social security number and his to be approved for the card...., but remotely possible, if he had a low income.
Depending on the state, the card companies, and any other people owed money, can go after her estate, if probate was filed.
If probate was not file, in some states, anyone owed money, can go after joint bank accounts.
Don't pay them. Credit card debt is unsecured debt. They'll send threatening letters, then they'll send offers to pay it off at pennies on the dollar, then they may sue. My parent had 20+ accounts, all with balances, when I took over his finances. He had been taking cash advances on one to pay another and then opening more and more. I stopped paying all of them. The credit card companies sell the debt and the companies that buy it have very little supporting evidence that a debt even exists. After a few years of calls and letters, they stopped contact. Only one sued. I went to court without a lawyer (but did a lot of Google research beforehand). I brought an income and expense sheet, showing my parent's inability to pay (that should be easy to show for your mom). The judge laughed at the credit company's lawyer and threw it out.
It will ruin her credit score, but does that really matter? With her level of income, she won't qualify for a loan nor be applying for a job nor anything else where a good score is important.
Originally, I thought to try chipping away at it, but I took a look at how much he had already paid in interest vs the original amount charged and had no qualms at all about not repaying them. Also, they extended credit to an 80+ year-old person with no income other than $1200/month social security and an enormous amount of existing debit. It was predatory lending. They were taking advantage of the fact that an elderly person will impoverish themselves trying to pay back the outrageous interest and fees without ever reducing the original debt.
Agreed--The poster's elderly, impoverished mom shouldn't stress herself paying back debt her dead husband ran up. Companies know of these risks and structure their rates to absorb certain losses.
If her name is on the account as a joint account holder, that means if her social security number was used to secure the account, they can pursue payment from her. If the card was in your father's name & she was just an authorized user, they cannot make her pay the debt. However, if your father died & had any assets, the credit card company/bank can attempt to collect the money owed from his estate.
No they cannot take her social security. They can only come after her if she has something of value...home, investments etc. She does need to apply for her husband ssi. They can call her but they cannot go into her bank account or anything like that.
When my husband passed away, I was responsible for his credit cards even though I was not on them. Some states might have different laws, but in IL...I had to pay them off or they would've come after me for payment.
They cannot garnish money from social security and/or pension. Check your state laws or do a free consult with an attorney.
When my sister passed 5 years ago, leaving me in charge of her disabled husband, I was dismayed to find that she had been paying Discover only minimum payments on their joint account. Then, I "discovered" that they had a plan with Discover that stopped interest charges when an account-holder became disabled AND that paid off the entire balance when either of them died! I don't think the credit cards offer that anymore, but you might want to see if they had such a plan. Otherwise, I am of the opinion that joint debts should be paid, but there are plenty of suggestions given here about how to avoid it if you so choose.
They will, but unless she needs her credit score, it doesn't matter. Before they do, change your mom's address with them to a p.o. box and her phone number with them to a pre-paid cell. That way, she can't be harrassed. If she has savings, you might explain that your mom is elderly and in no posotion to pay, but you're willing to offer them something to go away. 3 cents on the dollar sounds appropriate; it beats zero cents wjich is what they would get otherwise. If she has no savings, just change her contact info and ignore them. There's not a damn thing they can do about it.
It is unethical to renege on one's debts. Contact the credit card companies and explain the situation, and they will help you figure out a solution. If the person who ran up the debt was mentally incompetent to a certain extent, they might forgive it completely, or they can help you work out a payment plan that your mom can afford. When my dad died, he had not paid off a credit card that I had no idea he even had, so I received a bill for the amount plus a lot of interest. I called the company and explained the situation to them, and they removed all the added interest that had accumulated.
Obviously, if your mom's situation is dire and she (or you, if you can help her out) cannot pay anything, then she will probably have to file bankruptcy. When people do not pay their debts, it increases the cost of borrowing for everyone.
It is unethical to prey upon low income elderly with high interest credit offers. If the lender chooses to lend the money, they are choosing the risk.
Lending is a partnership. The lender has every opportunity to assess the risk before extending the credit. What increases the cost of borrowing for everyone is companies were able to make money from bad debt. Much of it was caused by deregulation and we all paid the price for it. The situation got better with common sense regulation, but now that's under attack again.
I think that not only should the credit card company not be paid back, they should be fined.
I believe you are responsible being a joint account .My dad had his own cc and the bank just wrote it off after getting the death certificate mom paid the joint debt. The lawyer sent out feelers so we could close out all his accounts since there was no will and everything got transferred to mom
I have dealt with cc companies,in this case I was sort of convinced by the bank so I paid 4700.00 for my deceased brothers debt as The bank had me as a joint acct on it, Why they did this is a mystery as I had many of my own cards after living in NYC, Do not pay , and do not feel dishonorable, At all I was told to not pay any of the deceased cards...banks know they feel Cheated when someone dies,yes,or pay 50%...if it is too much...i did this on my own,after I had a cease and desist letter Written to all after 2008 crash,by the Legal Aid society...I then sold my apt and decided to pay 50% mind u the interest was pilling up..if u need your credit rating high...u should resolve this, if u don't well..
Not that is matters now, but with your brother cc acct " did you see any paperwork that stated you were joint acct"? The reason I ask is because this is another tacit that they use to get family members to pay the bill. I was just wondering. That's all!
They have formats online for what is called a "drop dead letter." Basically, in the letter you are saying that you are exercising your rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act that you are unable to pay the debt and your only income is from Social Security and you have no other property to use to pay the debt. Credit card debt collectors cannot garnish someone's Social Security, so they will usually drop it and continue to go after people they think they can squeeze $ out of.
If it is in both names they can try to collect it. It would be good if she just declared bankruptcy and get out from under it all. Otherwise the companies can send her a 1099 and she will have to pay the IRS the amount the company is owed. She can try and make a deal with the IRS for all the total but it is doubtful they will let her off with a small amount.
SybilShearin--If she gets a 1099, wouldn't she only be liable for taxes on the amount forgiven rather than the principal? Thus, if the debt is $15,000 and her SS is $700 a month (= $8400 a year), her gross income would be considered ca. $23,400, and given that she'll have exemptions, etc. and not all of the SS is taxable, she's likely to find that her taxable income is small, resulting in a negligible tax bill, and once she pays this the entire issue is effectively resolved.
If mom is living in your sister's condo and has no assets. Than this is what I would do, some people here are telling you your mom should pay at least min payment, but once she makes a payment even if it is $1.00 she will be lock in therefore responsible for the dedit. (Which she might be if it is a joint acct.)
Here is a simple solution; send death certificate to all the credit card companies. And leave it at that! Like I said, if she has no assets, doesn't need credit for anything than just leave it alone!
Yes, they will call and you can tell them that your mom has no money to pay them. And if any of these credit cards have insurance on them they will collect the insurance money after you send a death certificate to them. My dad had a credit card in his name only. My mother gave the bank his death certificate and because there was insurance on the card it was paid in full. My dad also had a second card with no insurance. I told my mother to send a death certificate to them, and told her to tell them she had no money, because she didn't and she wasn't going to pay them. The credit card company stop calling after a year.
Let's try to make it as easy as possible for you and your mom.
*Remember credit cards are an unsecured credit. And the companies know this, therefore, they are taking a risk every time they hand out credit!
I know this seems wrong, but your mom is in survival mode, and I'm sorry but if it comes down to a choice between food or paying on credit cards, food wins!
People can say this is unethical & it is, but like I said, " they can't get blood out of a turnip"!
She will also have to install a “call blocker” on her phone. I use The Robokiller app. The credit companies will do a write off and send it to a collection agency. When the credit companies do this, they will no longer call but the collection agencies will.
When mom passed, dad was just an “authorized user” on her Discover card. (We didn’t know that) We paid her current monthly balance, and they issued dad his own card in his name. i suppose it depends if you want to continue having the card. They did say that dad is not responsible for mom’s card, but that when the “estate” was settled, it would go to probate. To avoid any issues later, we just paid it. (It was just her current month charges- she did not have a big balance)
Ignore it. The CC Co. will write it off as "uncollected", or "bad debt". Eventually the debt will be sold to a collection agency that will purchase the debt for pennies on the dollar, but will insist on the total amount, plus fictional interest.
After a period of time, it will go away. Even if it is a large $ amount, who cares if they threaten to effect credit rating? At this stage of life it's meaningless.
You can also settle with the CC Co. for a much smaller amount. This is how you negotiate: -contact the CC Co., and tell them you are settling all debts NOW! You (meaning your Father) has a limited amount of cash, a lot of other debt, and whoever agrees to a smaller amount, gets paid. Anyone who doesn't negotiate, gets nothing.
It's simpler than you think, just stay strong.
PS: to be safe, you can ask your Mother to tranfer/empty bank accounts to you. (To avoid the unlikely liens)
You received a lot of answers and I didn’t read all of them but I just wanted to encourage you to heed Davina’s answer. If your mom is NOT a co-applicant she is NOT responsible for his credit card debt. (I don’t think it matters what state she lives in but I’m not 100% sure if that.)
When my husband died I did pay his credit card debt only because I was able to at the time. However, if I hadn’t been able to pay it I wouldn’t have lost any sleep over leaving it unpaid.
I have been told that credit card companies are, or were at one time, very aggressive and threatening when it came to insisting spouses be responsible for outstanding debt. Please don’t let your mom be intimidated into paying off debt that’s not hers.
I just want to say I'm sure that authorized users are not responsible for credit card debt in all states. Depending on the state, spouses may be liable for debts incurred during the marriage. But if you have no money, you have no money. Don't make payments. Get Robokiller or Nomorobo on your phone.
Even if your mom lives in a state where spouses are not responsible for debts do not ignore any court summonses. Respond properly to those. But otherwise, ignore the credit card companies and debt collectors.
No, she absolutely cannot be arrested for the debt! You can find laws and articles adressing this on the internet, print them out in large size and give them to her to see for herself. (If they could arrest people for debt half the nation would be in jail--the country would fall apart and many children would have no parents.)
Also, she should apply for food stamps, called SNAP in most places now. See her county's website for requirements and application. She's almost sure to quality with her $700 income. (My brother has $900 income and gets $90 a month in food stamps here in Virginia, for instance.)
I worked for a credit card company and couples may get confused over what they are responsible for.
Here are some quick explanations- Joint Applicant- A secondary signatory whose income is calculated into acquiring of unsecured line. The secondary signatory is not the primary guarantor of the account, but is equally responsible for all debt accrued under the line of credit.
Authorized user-A non-secondary signatory whose income is NOT calculated into the acquiring of the unsecured line of credit. The non-secondary signatory or authorized user is allowed access to the account for use, but is NOT guarantor and has NO responsibility to the account.
Ask to see a copy of the application before you pay. Believe it or not there was a time when banks would not issue women credit cards and they were kept to being authorized users on an account.
Unsecured credit is what it is. There is no property behind it. Collectors like to make people believe they can go after the home and car, but they can't
Yes, because the accounts were held jointly. A joint account means just that, that both parties have access and responsibility for the activities of that account.
Yes, they can come after her for debt he ran up because they were married.
This is what I know but you should double check.
Credit card companies can't seize social security payments so her $700 monthly is safe from them. The government can lien part of Social Security payments for delinquent taxes.
You can:
1) Negotiate settlements with credit card companies--most will settle for 40 to 60% less than what's owed but they want it in a lump. To do this, you call the company and ask to negotiate a settlement. Sometimes they'll adjust the amount downward as time goes by and they get more desperate for you to pay. Mastercard, Visa, Nordstrom, Macy's and almost everybody does settlements--they'd rather get some money back rather than none at all.
2) Stop paying completely. It's upsetting because they'll call a lot and write a lot and then eventually give up and write you off as a loss. The bad debt goes on her credit report and each account shows up for seven years, then falls off. They can't come get you and put you in jail for not paying or slash your tires or publicly humiliate you for your debt. You can tell them to stop calling and/or change your phone number. They can get judgements but it costs money to go to court and if they know you can't pay they probably won't bother unless a particular debt is huge and you have something that can be liened like a house or business.
3) Keep paying the minimums forever.
Your mom has very little money so you might want choice 2. She'll have bad credit but at least she'll still have her SS money. Don't feel too bad for the credit card companies because they build padding into their fees and expect this to happen a certain percentage of the time. They also write off the unpaid debt and that saves them some money on their taxes.
Yes Sally unfortunately You will discover how ruthless Banks are when You cross swords with them. My advice is work out a settlement with the Bank and get it sorted as soon as is possible. Delaying the affair will only prolong the agony and frustration as in cases of debth it is best to make it as painless as possible. Good Luck Sally and do not worry as it will all get sorted soon.
If Social Security is her only income, bankruptcy is not necessary. Social Security wages cannot be garnished. I highly recommend finding a Legal Aid office near you. Here in Illinois we have a legal service with a special division for persons over age 60 years that does not charge fees. If you call your local Catholic Charities office, they may be able to give you information on where to obtain free legal help. If credit card companies are calling, she should tell them that her only income is Social Security. She can send a "Cease and Desist" letter to the credit card companies telling them that they can no longer call and harass her. They will understand that they have no recourse other than to write off the debt when they find out all she has is Social Security. They can't touch that. The only thing I'm not sure about is the house. They may be able to put a lien against it but nothing would happen with that until the house is sold. Then the lien has to be paid out of the proceeds from the house. Ask Legal Aid about this.
I don't understand why she cannot pay the minimum amount on these cards until she dies. Then they can come after her estate, but you didn't mention if that would be an issue for inheritance reasons. If she has nothing, then there is nothing they can do about it. Unless you live in one of those states that make you responsible for your parents' debts. https://www.debt.com/edu/who-is-responsible-for-deceased-parents-debt/
I hope your dad at least had some life insurance to help pay of debts which now she owes due to joint accounts..her name is also on it. You can take some stress off of your mum by offering to pay for cremation. You may even want her to live with you since she is going to have to settle those debts and she does not even have enough to live on. Actually I don't see how you can avoid this. IF she owns a home it's expensive to maintain. IF the home is under HIS name creditors can and will put liens on it. SO once it's sold creditors get first dibs on it. To pay off those debts she could sell the house and your mum could live with you. That's what I would do.
Credit cards are like lawyers..vicious when it comes to money. Even marriage--not death--and divorce can incur debts when separate credit cards are considered "community" being "marriage" property (what is accumulated during the marriage period only, not prior to marriage-check your state laws!). The judge could very well order the debts be responsibility of both parties cut in half. That is why I got a prenuptial agreement done. So it was spelled out in writing under a lawyer that separate credit cards, separate names, are responsible for their OWN debts upon divorce. Now cards under BOTH names is a deliberate obligation even if not married. I had a friend who owned a computer repair shop and his best friend -- brilliant computer person--but his name was also on the joint business account. It so happens he charged up the business credit cards and cleaned out the business bank accounts and there was not a single thing the other dude could do.
NOW if that surviving mom never agreed to put her name on his credit cards, the creditor cannot touch her. But since that was not the case they are going to go after her and even put liens on the house.
I'm sorry your father passed leaving your mom in a mess. but you both are going to have to deal with it. I HIGHLY advise a barebones cheap cremation. It would be better if you paid for it.
Think about funeral planning before it happens. Another option is free remains disposal donating to medical science. www.sciencecare.com
From what I'm reading "free" is dependent on where you live with this - and most science-related organizations. Certainly not as expensive as a funeral, but some require funeral home services for transportation, and they charge for that. For others and for future reference, there are grants to be applied for that may help offset the costs of donation. I am sorry I don't have specifics - only beginning my research but this is what I'm finding so far.
JOINT accounts? YES THEY CAN. And YES they will. If he has life insurance, they get first dibs on payment. See an bankruptcy lawyer..if your mom can't afford one seek legal aid. His debt now has become her debt.
Since they were joint accounts it was also her responsibility to oversee what he was doing.
If she is actually a co-owner of the credit card, and her social security number was used to get the card, then she is responsible.
It is unlikely however that your father used her social security number and his to be approved for the card...., but remotely possible, if he had a low income.
Depending on the state, the card companies, and any other people owed money, can go after her estate, if probate was filed.
If probate was not file, in some states, anyone owed money, can go after joint bank accounts.
It will ruin her credit score, but does that really matter? With her level of income, she won't qualify for a loan nor be applying for a job nor anything else where a good score is important.
Originally, I thought to try chipping away at it, but I took a look at how much he had already paid in interest vs the original amount charged and had no qualms at all about not repaying them. Also, they extended credit to an 80+ year-old person with no income other than $1200/month social security and an enormous amount of existing debit. It was predatory lending. They were taking advantage of the fact that an elderly person will impoverish themselves trying to pay back the outrageous interest and fees without ever reducing the original debt.
They cannot garnish money from social security and/or pension. Check your state laws or do a free consult with an attorney.
Otherwise, I am of the opinion that joint debts should be paid, but there are plenty of suggestions given here about how to avoid it if you so choose.
Obviously, if your mom's situation is dire and she (or you, if you can help her out) cannot pay anything, then she will probably have to file bankruptcy. When people do not pay their debts, it increases the cost of borrowing for everyone.
Lending is a partnership. The lender has every opportunity to assess the risk before extending the credit. What increases the cost of borrowing for everyone is companies were able to make money from bad debt. Much of it was caused by deregulation and we all paid the price for it. The situation got better with common sense regulation, but now that's under attack again.
I think that not only should the credit card company not be paid back, they should be fined.
The bank had me as a joint acct on it,
Why they did this is a mystery as I had many of my own cards after living in NYC,
Do not pay , and do not feel dishonorable,
At all I was told to not pay any of the deceased cards...banks know they feel
Cheated when someone dies,yes,or pay 50%...if it is too much...i did this on my own,after I had a cease and desist letter
Written to all after 2008 crash,by the Legal Aid society...I then sold my apt and decided to pay 50% mind u the interest was pilling up..if u need your credit rating high...u should resolve this, if u don't well..
If mom is living in your sister's condo and has no assets.
Than this is what I would do, some people here are telling you your mom should pay at least min payment, but once she makes a payment even if it is $1.00 she will be lock in therefore responsible for the dedit. (Which she might be if it is a joint acct.)
Here is a simple solution; send death certificate to all the credit card companies. And leave it at that!
Like I said, if she has no assets, doesn't need credit for anything than just leave it alone!
Yes, they will call and you can tell them that your mom has no money to pay them.
And if any of these credit cards have insurance on them they will collect the insurance money after you send a death certificate to them.
My dad had a credit card in his name only. My mother gave the bank his death certificate and because there was insurance on the card it was paid in full. My dad also had a second card with no insurance. I told my mother to send a death certificate to them, and told her to tell them she had no money, because she didn't and she wasn't going to pay them. The credit card company stop calling after a year.
Let's try to make it as easy as possible for you and your mom.
*Remember credit cards are an unsecured credit. And the companies know this, therefore, they are taking a risk every time they hand out credit!
I know this seems wrong, but your mom is in survival mode, and I'm sorry but if it comes down to a choice between food or paying on credit cards, food wins!
People can say this is unethical & it is, but like I said, " they can't get blood out of a turnip"!
Just my opinion!
Good Luck!
i suppose it depends if you want to continue having the card. They did say that dad is not responsible for mom’s card, but that when the “estate” was settled, it would go to probate. To avoid any issues later, we just paid it. (It was just her current month charges- she did not have a big balance)
After a period of time, it will go away.
Even if it is a large $ amount, who cares if they threaten to effect credit rating? At this stage of life it's meaningless.
You can also settle with the CC Co. for a much smaller amount. This is how you negotiate:
-contact the CC Co., and tell them you are settling all debts NOW! You (meaning your Father) has a limited amount of cash, a lot of other debt, and whoever agrees to a smaller amount, gets paid.
Anyone who doesn't negotiate, gets nothing.
It's simpler than you think, just stay strong.
PS:
to be safe, you can ask your Mother to tranfer/empty bank accounts to you. (To avoid the unlikely liens)
GOOD LUCK
When my husband died I did pay his credit card debt only because I was able to at the time. However, if I hadn’t been able to pay it I wouldn’t have lost any sleep over leaving it unpaid.
I have been told that credit card companies are, or were at one time, very aggressive and threatening when it came to insisting spouses be responsible for outstanding debt. Please don’t let your mom be intimidated into paying off debt that’s not hers.
Even if your mom lives in a state where spouses are not responsible for debts do not ignore any court summonses. Respond properly to those. But otherwise, ignore the credit card companies and debt collectors.
No, she absolutely cannot be arrested for the debt! You can find laws and articles adressing this on the internet, print them out in large size and give them to her to see for herself. (If they could arrest people for debt half the nation would be in jail--the country would fall apart and many children would have no parents.)
Also, she should apply for food stamps, called SNAP in most places now. See her county's website for requirements and application. She's almost sure to quality with her $700 income. (My brother has $900 income and gets $90 a month in food stamps here in Virginia, for instance.)
Good luck!
Here are some quick explanations-
Joint Applicant- A secondary signatory whose income is calculated into acquiring of unsecured line. The secondary signatory is not the primary guarantor of the account, but is equally responsible for all debt accrued under the line of credit.
Authorized user-A non-secondary signatory whose income is NOT calculated into the acquiring of the unsecured line of credit. The non-secondary signatory or authorized user is allowed access to the account for use, but is NOT guarantor and has NO responsibility to the account.
Ask to see a copy of the application before you pay. Believe it or not there was a time when banks would not issue women credit cards and they were kept to being authorized users on an account.
Unsecured credit is what it is. There is no property behind it. Collectors like to make people believe they can go after the home and car, but they can't
This is what I know but you should double check.
Credit card companies can't seize social security payments so her $700 monthly is safe from them. The government can lien part of Social Security payments for delinquent taxes.
You can:
1) Negotiate settlements with credit card companies--most will settle for 40 to 60% less than what's owed but they want it in a lump. To do this, you call the company and ask to negotiate a settlement. Sometimes they'll adjust the amount downward as time goes by and they get more desperate for you to pay. Mastercard, Visa, Nordstrom, Macy's and almost everybody does settlements--they'd rather get some money back rather than none at all.
2) Stop paying completely. It's upsetting because they'll call a lot and write a lot and then eventually give up and write you off as a loss. The bad debt goes on her credit report and each account shows up for seven years, then falls off. They can't come get you and put you in jail for not paying or slash your tires or publicly humiliate you for your debt. You can tell them to stop calling and/or change your phone number. They can get judgements but it costs money to go to court and if they know you can't pay they probably won't bother unless a particular debt is huge and you have something that can be liened like a house or business.
3) Keep paying the minimums forever.
Your mom has very little money so you might want choice 2. She'll have bad credit but at least she'll still have her SS money. Don't feel too bad for the credit card companies because they build padding into their fees and expect this to happen a certain percentage of the time. They also write off the unpaid debt and that saves them some money on their taxes.
Hope this helps.
NOW if that surviving mom never agreed to put her name on his credit cards, the creditor cannot touch her. But since that was not the case they are going to go after her and even put liens on the house.
Think about funeral planning before it happens. Another option is free remains disposal donating to medical science. www.sciencecare.com
If he has life insurance, they get first dibs on payment. See an bankruptcy lawyer..if your mom can't afford one seek legal aid. His debt now has become her debt.
Since they were joint accounts it was also her responsibility to oversee what he was doing.