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My father believed in his demented mind I had stolen his money from the bank. Why the banker couldn't explain the process to him is beyond me. He had me revoked as poa and moa. I did just at the attorneys told me to do, but the my father believes I've stolen his money. Instead of explaining that nothing had been not that was unethical she just removed me as their POA, and MOA. This attorney knows I've done nothing and I believe she had my mother sign off on paperwork to remove while my mother was unaware of why she was doing this. I taped recorded a conversation with mother she's in the hospital right now and was admitted for being confused and incoherent. This attorney is setting herself up to be disbarred.

If I'm wrong but the POA goes into affect when they get to this point I have doctors statements to support the facts how could she do this and get away with! She's tried to sell them on all kinds services, while we were there but I had it under control and told her this. Maybe I should count is as a blessing because she is going to cost him a fortune and he's already thinking people are stealing from him. This is part of the disease, this is an injustice to my family. Can someone help with this!

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I'm so sorry you are going through this. I hope you can hire a lawyer who can help you.
I can relate. My mother and step-father owned a home together. Mom put a LOT of money into the home. He was domineering and she did whatever he told her to. He took her to go to a shyster law firm to do their living trusts. It was not until he died and the will was read that we found out they have gotten my mother to sign the house over to his living trust. His trust said she could live in the house as long as she wanted (and of course had to pay the mortgage) If she sold it she got only 1/3 of the equity, and if she did not live in it for three consecutive months (say she fell and was in rehab) she forfeit the whole thing. Mom trusted any man to tell her what to do. It was a nightmare, and when we fought it, she still only got 1/2 the equity when she should have owned the home outright.
Good luck.
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Accusing the caring adult child of theft and evil deeds seems to be a common thread with dementia. I've sure had a belly full of it myself. And it sure hurts. The easy way out is to cut the cord; change your phone number and forget about all of them totally. And I know several women that have done this with their crazy parents. The harder route, and less rewarding, is to fight to remain in control. Either because you can't help yourself caring for your parents, or you want to keep them from getting ripped off totally, or some other reason. I guess it just depends on what you will be comfortable doing. Either way has its drawbacks. Sorry you are suffering through this mistreatment. It's miserable, I know.
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Nurs, you are going to have to hire an attorney, go to court, and petition for conservatorship (adult guardianship), and you must be able to demonstrate good cause why your sister, in her currently legal (although unethical) role as POA. That will be very costly for you and extremely difficult to prove to the court. I am going through a very similar situation right now with my evil sister, and everything I'm finding out is quite grim. My sister may even be able to prevent me from ever seeing my mom again, if she prevails, so you really have to weight out what route to take, so your own, and your mom's, best interests are served. It really is a miserable, depressing, anxiety-ridden predicament, isn't it? And so frustrating, especially when you've been providing most, if not all, of the caregiving!
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Nurs, play the same game. Take mom to the doc, and get the POA tranferred back to you. Then sis would probably do the same thing and it woyld become endless. You could call Adult Protective Services, they may be able to help get the POA withdrawn if you can show them doctor's letter of incompetence. If Mom is advanced Alzheimer's moving her to your home would more than likely cause a sudden, drastic decline. Now that she has moved to a facility, it may be best to leave her there.

Now, thinking about it a bit more. Have you seen the POA that sis has? If it is a standard doctor's office form it probably does not say anything about the agent having the power to choose living situation. Does the POA you have provide you that power? If yours was prepared by an attorney, the living situation is often included.
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I live in Ohio and have had POA of my mom since 2011. My mom has Alzheimer's. In her moderate stage she was cohereced into calling her family MD to revoke POA to which she didn't know his number but was dialed by another to do so and when asked, she don't recall doing such a thing. Needless to say if you test her mental orientation, she can't tell you all the answers. However, her MA at the docs office states the md felt she was competent to do so yet she couldn't even tell you the year or date or city she's in. Her alzheimers is severe and my sister wanted me to put her in nursing home and snuck last yr and had mom sign a new POA yet all mom knows is her name. An atty said mom can't cancel POA due to not being competent to make such healthcare choices and I have a statement from her neurologist saying she's not legally competent to make changes to her POA since her diagnosis of Alzheimer's in 2011. My sister has put her in a nursing home and provided them her POA papers. I told nursing home it's not legal and I originally have POA and statement from specialist that diagnosed her. None of them will listen to me nor accept anything I say to them. I want my mom to come home and live with me. I am an RN. What do I need to do to overturn my sisters POA since it's illegal? Why do I have to get atty or pay out my money to file something in court when her diagnosis and mental capacity says she is not of sound mind? I would like to fix this asap and without it costing me lots of money. I live in Ohio. P,ease help!
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Hello Lamore, thank you for sharing your husbands story, so sorry for all the heartache. It's been a year now and much has changed from last year this time, however the hurt frustration, and one more attorney later I'm just coasting. It's been a horrible traumatic and difficult time. My folks are residing now in a very nice memory care unit. I had to cut ties from my folks my father was getting so threatening, they are so sick, they have each other that's all that matters to them. Yeah! They've know idea what my life is like, but they are well cared for and have a new attorney. This attorney demanded I pay with the trust money for the difference needed for my folks. I said sure provide me with the itemized bills as I have to be accountable for what ever comes out of the trust. So the new attorney had an estate sale without telling me. She sold everything of my folks everything else was destroyed. I found this out from a neighbor of my folks she called asking if I new they'd had an estate sale 2 weeks prior Nope didn't know a thing. So I let it good, now the house is up for sale, I'm glad really it's more than I could handle right now. I'm still trying to recover get my strength back and deal with my own medical issues. I agree Lamore I have had to cut them lose. I have cousin who lives in Richmond she checked on them for me the other day went by for a visit. Their just fine, never any mention of me as far as she reported. So I've worn myself out I've nothing left over really for myself. My father turned 90 and my mother 88 in September, I keep thinking they will out live me. Their choices have taken a toll on me, so I'm trying to move on I have too there isn't any help for me I'm on my own. So sad what insanity lurks in the hearts of the people who gave birth to us. We don't get to choose our parents, families. You know I still love them very much, but they've broken my heart as I've never known possible. Oh yes now I pray for my own peace and well being to manifest in a new life far away from all of them. I know that heartache your husband feels best wishes to you both. Good advise you gave, leave the toxic people and situations alone, move on.
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Dear Zoo
My husband just went through a similar situation with a demented mother and a traitor son who stole my husband's and his sister's inheritance. He abducted my mother I law from our house and took her to her financial advisor and she transfered 75% of her trust fund to his name and the rest of the money to his sister, brother and all their kids.. The whole family went to hell because of the greed of a son. Now my husband is being kept from contacting his own mother who he had POA and pre needed guardianship from 20 years ago.. They poisoned the old lady to hate her own son and daughter (my hubby and his sister) and my poor hubby misses his mother since they had a wonderful relationship and he took care of her ever since his father died back in 1986 .. Now my husband lost his mother, his sons and daughter and in the midst of all the mess got into an argument with his sister (cause she teamed with his son about all the legal issues cause she wanted to keep the guardianship on the finances so my husband's son would not waste his grandmother's money and then the court would come after my sister in law's money for support of their mother ) so .. My advise to all of you is to support your spouse in distress and detach from the toxic people in the family .. The Laws in this country are CRAP! And helped all this group of greedy people separate a mother and a son who barely months ago were best friends and because dementia and poisoning from a greedy con artis now she sees him as her enemy .... Just let go of them .. Hand the hassle to other hands and free yourselves from toxic people !! Good luck all
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Jennymac, I am so terribly sorry for your heart break over your parents. They did treat you horrendously you didn't deserve that. Forgive as I've been trying to put my life back together and haven't been on this blog for sometime because it was to painful even to be here. I hope you've received some healing Jennymac, yes your story resonates with me as well. My mother won't even speak with me now my father has poisoned her against me I suppose. They never called me unless my father wanted to threaten me over his little bitty money. Truly it's not much. I'm trying to get peace I too stopped contact with them. Without contacting me the attorney had an estate sale the neighbors called me 2 weeks after the sale to ask me if I knew about it, I said know. A month later I looked on line my parent house is for sale I was never notified. I feel betrayed, they shut be out of their lives years ago. I no longer will have anything to do with them as everything I tried was never good enough. The pain I sustained is their shame of who they are. My heart goes out to you Jennymac I do hope you are in much better place now.
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lilith53 So sorry your family is divided. I just can't believe some of the stories I've read, or others have told me of their own family end of life issues! I never wanted this to happen, my only intention has been to help my parents, who needs the abuse. I tell you this the attorney that believe I was going to roll over and walk away I can't I will stop her. I can prove she has done everything fraudulently. The fact that I've done nothing if this does go to court it will only show I've done nothing and I will go after her, and my father won't be to happy with her at this point either! I believe that there is going to be spiritual accountability that will over ride anything this attorney is lying to my folks she can do for them. She would be a fool to try and continue to represent them since she has a formal complaint filed with the state bar.
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Lots of greedy people in the world. I have a sister that has great influence over mother with dementia. She talked my mother into putting my father in a home in another city when a room was offered in our home town...effectively cutting him off from most of his family. She has made sure that her name is on all the legal papers and controls bank accounts. She's done everything she can for complete control and her and husband have taken Mom to lawyers a number of times. I know that there has been a change in the will. It's a long story but the end result is that I have stepped back, have no contact with my sister, except for being polite at family events, where she usually makes snide remarks, she is trying to alienate me from family members including my own grown children. I really have no control over what she does or says and have had to accept this and let it all go to look after my own emotional and physical health. If I feel I need to address a concern I speak to her doctors, and to Dad's as well. If I am cut out of the will, so be it. My mental well being is far more important ( I am not rich, live on a small senior pension). My sister, however, is loaded. Go figure. I guess the greedy get rich that way.
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Good thought gladimere, however the trust it self is it's own entity. What I'm trying to drive home to my dad for no fee is that he will be suing himself. My fathers attorney fraudulently acquired their signatures they are incompetent and this will come out in court! He's had to be tied to the bed, all other examples of his dementia will be revealed but its going to cost him and his attorney wants me to send her a check for his money! I'm going to have get counsel in Virginia
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Zoo-
Just an idea, the trust may give you the power to appoint a co-trustee. If you were to have a bank, attorney, or even a company that provides guardianship/conservatorship services to the public, the attorney would have to be fighting another entity. The attorney could potentially sue to also have you removed as trustee. But, if you have another impartial third party involved it would make it harder. That person could perform their own audit to show that nothing unscrupulous has been done with your parents funds.
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Thanks Ravens yes my thoughts are all over the map! The only money that has come from my father and mother was approved by them to repay me for my plane ticket, from their checking of which they wanted me to have.To grant me money to get back to Texas because I lost my job to come care for them this was approved by them and checking written their checking. Then from the Trust the Texas attorney setup then told me to reimburse myself, of which I told my father what said and done. That's when dad threaten fly down here to tell this attorney off.

My conscience is clear, before all of this my father kept saying do you need any money what about your mortgage, I 'd tell him don't thank you but don't worry I'm ok for now. The crazy thing about this is sure anyone can sue to any reason. This Virginia attorney would have to hire a firm or come to Texas herself to sue the Trust that is Irrevocable, audit the trust of which there is nothing to audit, she will charge my folks a fortune to do all of this in plane fares, attorney's fee and this bitch won't blink an eye. Wells Fargo and their attorney's stand behind me, and has said this attorney is driving this needlessly to make herself money. My father will have to pay this she devil of an attorney from is monthly income. Due to the fact that I'm trustee over the his money I can do anything with it. I don't say this in a pompous way, I don't want to do anything with his money IT'S HIS MONEY! I have a huge responsibility here I don't take lightly. I would never touch that money. However I've let my father know his attorney is going to force me to use those funds as I can to defend the trust. All his property is in there, this attorney wants me to hand it over to her in a check, NO WAY! She thought she could scare me by saying my father won't sue me if I do, I'm not stupid! The trust is a separate entity unto itself has it's own existence. I've made myself money in my lifetime I'm no fool when it comes to managing my funds. My family on the other hand would not invest the way I've done I respect that so their money sits in their bank waiting for them to use it when needed.

Raven1 you are correct the POA is set in affect to allow me to take over provided they are found incompetent. This attorney didn't have them re-evaluated, she listened to my father who according to the Veterans hospital psychology dept is a very difficult case in many ways. He can become lucid for short periods of time enough to appear in control, which makes him all the more dangerous to himself and others. Had this attorney been ethical, less greedy, and opportunist less quick to jump on the money train she would have done the right thing and had them re-evaluated. But she probably thought I was going to try to stop her so she bolted. My father is a very sick man so is my mother very ill

God knows the last thing I want to do was lose my life to manage theirs, or there money. But now this attorney has seen they are helpless she is courting them in there last days to take whatever money she can get from people she doesn't nothing about. Leaving them in fear, worry, and abandon, causing division in making a difficult situation worse, rather than reaching out to try and resolve these issues. She had me removed because I was in the way of her getting their money. Now she has a war on her hands she will not win! I will counter sue her for damages to my father and mother, for my lose wages, for money the trust spent, and anything I can add to the suit, exposing her to the State Bar of Virginia and that's just the beginning.

Hopefully I can get my father to see the light, he will hate me further, but as his daughter and the ONLY TRUSTEE HOLDER I will be force to execute the authority given me by the Trust of which I just read last night. I hadn't even looked at what that trust grants me because I didn't care still don't care, but it's everything.

I believe this is a blessing as clearly my folks as documented can't handle their finances. I believe clearly they are being taken advantage of so PEOPLE KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Don't be afraid of the attorney, know the law and use it to expose unscrupulous attorney's!

I'm playing hard ball with my dad and the attorney at this point driving home to my dad who is already paranoid, delusional, that if he and his attorney continue he will be suing himself to get his money that will me used from the trust because I have the power given me to do so. That this power was set in motion by his attorney, consummated in the state of Texas. I'm hoping after he hears this realizing that the attorney's will be the only one's making money he will have a fit and back off. I will continue to pursue grievance against his attorney as she has pissed me off, I will expose her to her peers and make a public record of her actions. I will also let my father know that if I have to come to Virginia on business related to this matter I have the authority to use his money to stay in a hotel, rent a car to get to court, pay my attorney to defend his money in Virginia, as well as remove funds to pay for my plane ticket. Then ask him DAD do you really want to go there, just because you can't see your name on the trust, just because the didn't call me to say sure show him whatever he wants ITS HIS MONEY. Dad do you want to make the attorney's rich because your ego, and self righteous behavior (his dementia) want allow you to see the truth. I will hate having to go there, but my dad is out of his mind. That attorney is crooked cares nothing of my folks. Yes I will recoup this money for my father and from that attorney hide, because she wrong!
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Zoolife: You must be livid because your thoughts are jumbled a bit as you write. You need to calm yourself down and get everything together to present your case in a calm, straightforward manner. State the facts and only the facts as they each happened, you should obtain an attorney to assist you with this if you haven't already.

Becoming the DPOA for anyone is hard, there is a lot of work and documentation has to be done constantly. It amazes me that this attorney was willing to change the DPOA removing you, if your father does indeed have dementia or Alzheimer's. The whole idea of a POA was so THEY could and would take over when the patient becomes too ill to properly handle their affairs. So now, Dad who is suffering from dementia waltzes in and says take her off as my POA??? How does this happen? By virtue of their disease they say and do things that are not based in reality. My own mother has accused me of spending all her money on unnecessary things. Every cent I spend is documented and it is usually to pay her credit card, newspaper, groceries, dog food, dog grooming, etc. which are all her expenses. Dementia and Alzheimer patients say things and believe things that are not true, it is their illness.

If I were you I would absolutely hire an attorney to represent me and I would fight what this other attorney has done. There may wind up being nothing left as your inheritance or just money to care for Mom and Dad, because this attorney he has attached himself to is and will charge him for every single thing she does. She will walk away with Mom and Dad's money in her fees.

Why was she asking you for money? Is she saying that you have robbed Mom and Dad of "X number of dollars" and they want you to repay them and he will file no charges against you? This is a really horrible position to be in and I hope you have kept scrupulous records as you are going to need them. Any person found to be robbing their parent can be prosecuted, so this should be a lesson to us all to make sure to document everything!!! Along with the 10,000 other things we have to do each day!

Good Luck and Best Wishes!
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Makes me wish I'd never gotten involved at all with their finances I had no idea I would become a target. I've made them money, not a dime spent on me except to reimburse me for paying the attorney here where I live. This women lied about speaking to dads doctor, that enrages me. She is after their money, their ill with dementia alone no family close to check on them this women wants a check for the funds. No telling what she had in mind. The complaint has been filed in Virginia.
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Zoo, there are many attorneys out there that don't know the first thing about elder law. I know cause sissy retained one of these, after firing an attorney that has dealt with moms documents for years. Why? Still don't know everything, but I have a hunch we will find out plenty with a court order for an audit of the trust that is due next week, after fighting this crap for two years. I think attorney's are hanging shingles that say elder law because of the aging population. I too, plan on filing a complaint with the bar association. This woman retained by sis is extremely unethical and has only been a mouthpiece for sissy. The things that attorney would say were completely unbelieveable and just plain unlawful, just whatever sissy wanted her to say and sissy spent moms money on her which was only for sissy's benefit, not moms.
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Now the attorney that wants to be in control of my father and mothers Trust fund wants me to make a check payable to her, stating my father will not sue me at this time provide I release it to my incompetent father to give to that greed unscrupulous bi@$% of an attorney. She bit#%# just woke up the WARRIOR PRINCESS IN ME! She knows she's screwed up and I can prove it. I've filed a formal compliant with the Supreme Court State Bar in Virginia. She has nothing to stand on and I've already exposed her for the greedy women she is. Her website states how they bring unity to families in these times, amongst other lies. She done, she doesn't want to file a suit if she did it will expose what she's done. Then I will file a frivolous suit against her, and abuse of the elderly along with conflict of interest and anything else I can throw at her
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Zoolife Hi. Your story resonates with me because I have just gone through a nightmare with parents who are 92 and living in their own home. Five months ago, when visiting them to do their garden, cook and shop for them and generally care for them as they have declining health, my father 'accidentally' let it slip that I no longer get the house when they die! For 20 years I had thought I was to inherit it, as they gave my brother money 20 years ago and not me. When I expressed shock, he verbally attacked me and said he had told me two years earlier. He kept ranting and raving and then my mother joined in. When I asked them to explain, he just tried to fob me off with lies. It was horrendous. The upshot was that I got up to walk out, with my husband, and my father told me, don't come here again, and 'we don't need your help'. It was like a knife through my heart. I haven't spoken to them for 5 months, but have learnt that they have handed money over to my brother 'for his failing business', and have slandered me to my aunt, and humiliated and ridiculed me in the eyes of my brother and wife (who I haven't spoken to for years). My brother has poisoned my parents minds against me in order to get Will changed and to extract money from them, and I have had a nervous breakdown. In October my parents sent me a birthday card and a cheque for a small sum, but no apology or explanation, and I am so numb, I didn't have any feelings at all when they made this contact with me. I am trying to get on with my life, but fear for my mother's health, and I realise that there is a very very nasty situation here. Now I can see more clearly, a few months down the line, I believe that there has been great evil carried out, because it takes an enormous force to separate a mother and daughter who have always loved each other (they are 92, I am 65), and, my parents are susceptible and have had their minds turned against me by my brother. I was suicidal, but my parents showed no empathy, or normal judgement, and I believe they have mild dementia, but no one else recognises this. My father's rage was totally out of all proportion to the situation, and I believe it was guilt, plus possible temporary mental illness as well as mild dementia! But now I have to live with it, knowing my mother will feel abandoned, as I cannot go through the horror again of being told "it is nothing to do with you what we do with our money"!!! What a nightmare. So you are not alone. Best wishes to you.
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Jennagibbs, Your right this has destroyed me, and given me a new life, as I will carry on! My father has shown the core of a man he is and always has been, even before the dementia. His own former friends has validated that for me. The things they've told me about my dad I always suspected and are shameful to me. I don't want to be anything like him, either of them, and will work hard to remove any character defects in myself they could have been transferred to me from growing up in their home. God's Blessed me in this! Thank you all for listening to me all this time on my journey, but it's coming to an end with them. They don't want their daughter, so I'm not going to fight for them. The attorney can take over their care, that's what my parents want. They've slandered me to what little family I had his sisters which I'm divorcing as well! God Bless you all for standing with me on this!
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Zoolife, you've got to cut them loose -- they are destroying you.

I truly am sorry for you. You are trying to do the right thing by your parents. They don't want the right thing. And it sounds like they never have, even before the dementia. Don't continue beating your head against a brick wall.
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My father had to be restrained and tied to the bed at the veterans hospital in January. All mental evaluations stated he is severely impaired. I read the examination they gave him the other night. I recorded my conversations with my mother she didn't know how she got to the hospital, and told the crazy story that was so mixed up, I recorded it. This attorney told me at the time of evaluation that the doctors letters did quite say that my parents where capable of signing the durable but she wanted to send a standard questionnaire to the doctors which would allow them to answer the questions so she could proceed. She told me guardianship would have to be filed if the questions aren't answered in the proper form. I can't get the hospital staff to hear me I called them last night and they said your mother is resting and seems fine. Mother doesn't know how she got the hospital if she fell or not, she said they were going to have dinner, and had been to Ford Motor Company (where my father retired) that Ford had a nice place backed up to their property in Dillwyn where they haven't lived in 15 years. Ford is not a restaurant, my mother said my father was in the front yard with a customer when she was confused and the neighbor was there. If their neighbor hadn't have been there my father didn't know to call for help. And yes me mother said she signed something the attorney came to the hospital. The hospital won't tell me anything my father hasn't told them I can know. My father has slandered me to the family as a liar, theft the demonic messages he left on my cell phone are horrible. I hate seeing injustice done, I believe this attorney and her elder manager friend are going to take advantage of them. Before I left to come back home she called my dad and ask him if anyone else was on the line so they could speak. I know this because my father was standing in front of me and repeated to her know there is no one else on the line. All the neighbors have volunteered to speak on my behalf to testify to my dads behavior. That means my life is back on hold I'd have to fight back to Virginia put myself up in the hotel, go to court and fork out a bunch of money I can't afford. But maybe this is the best they choose this my father hates, his neighbors said he has no idea how blessed he is to have me as his daughter, they know I've done everything to protect them. I still havent' found work I'm not really in great mental shape with all this stress to focus on my life. So many of my friends just tell me you've got to cut them loose they are destroying you.
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I, too, am very sorry you are going through this.

Being narcissistic doesn't disqualify someone from changing their POA. Making terrible decisions doesn't disqualify someone from making decisions. Only being judged to be incompetent (in the legal sense) prevents someone from acting on their own behalf. Do the documents you have from doctors specifically say your father is incompetent? Has a court ruled on this issue?

Your mother cannot change your father's POA, whether she is competent or not. Only your father can do that. So I am a little confused about what she was asked to sign. Did she perhaps also change her POA?

It is not up to the lawyer to decide whether changing the POA was based on good reasons. If the client wants it changed AND the client is legally competent, the client can have it changed.

So we are back to the question of your father's competency. Do you feel that he was competent to name you POA at the time that occurred, but not later when he removed you? How much time elapsed between naming you and removing you? What happened to his health/mental status in that period? What kind of documentation do you have of that cognitive decline?

I know that you are working very hard to try to see that things happen in your parents' best interest. Be proud of that, whatever the outcome.
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I am so sorry you going through this. My heart goes out to you!!

The only thing I know is if you have documented proof your father is mentally incompetent, then you can get an attorney to file for guardianship or conservatorship. It is costly. I live in CA and here it is around $5,000.00. It also can take up to 9 months but to speed it up you can declare it an emergency which will cost more. My suggestion is to seek the advice of an elder law attorney, not one associated with your parents attorney. Hugs to you!!
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