Dad and brother refuse to make any changes. Any advice?

It's very apparent to me that you and your brother are on different wave lengths. You two talk with completely dufferent purposes in mind. He talks to you so you'll listen and sympathize. You LISTEN with a mindset trying to fix what's wrong.

If I had to guess, your brother is a Yes But kind of guy. He tells you he cries himself to sleep at night. You suggest it may be time to think about getting dad into assisted living. HE SAYS, "Yes, but nobody will be able to put up with him." Or in response to your suggestion he get some help a few days a week, "Yes, but dad just gets furious." Got the picture?

Assuming your brother is a grown man and isn't mentally ill, he's exactly where he wants to be. Oh, sometimes the shoes he's wearing feel a little snug, but for the most part? He's content.

See, we outlawed slavery in the country decades ago. There is nothing keeping your brother from shedding this responsibility except your brother. You need to turn yourself into a duck so that his complaints roll off your back.

Let brother know that when he's ready to solve his "problems," you'll be at his side in a New York Minute. And if you become too upset listening to his complaints, your next words are, "Brother, you know I love you and dad to bits and pieces. BUT I just can't listen to your complaints all the time. I'm absolutely HERE for you, though. And when you want to talk about SOLUTIONS instead of problems? I'm your gal. I love you both."

Can you tell I have "the T-shirt" in my closet? I wish you peace.

Call Adult Protective Services in dad's city or county and have them investigate. Sounds like borderline neglect? But also keep in mind that falls and health decline/ infections can and do happen in nursing homes. And from description of dad, he is not ALF material, he needs skilled nursing care and/or PT (rehab facility ).

In home care specialists are trained to deal with these types of behaviors... and once they are there dad's reaction may surprise you. So what if he 'acts out'.... they will know how to deal with it. Please encourage your brother to at least try it. He sounds dangerously depresssd.

Your brother has convinced himself that he'd be prosecuted if he left. Would proving to him otherwise make a difference? Ask him that. If it would, arrange for a consult with an eldercare attorney who can explain the law to him.

MaggieMarshall makes some very good points but so do the others. It's not easy to put it all together from a distance, but I'd advise you to read through all of the terrific responses on this thread and see what seems to fit the situation the best at this time.

It's possible that your brother is where he wants to be, but it's also possible that he is too depressed to move forward and make changes. If you believe the second is what is going on, the adult protective services may be a good idea.

Your dad deserves care and your brother's emotional health is shaky. That leads me to lean toward an intervention by social workers to check things out.

Whatever you decide, please keep us updated on your situation. We can lend support even if we can't fix the issue.
Take care of yourself,
Carol

Your brother is burned out he's a man so he understand your dad we truly speak different lauges our brains our different he is needing a brake visit them I know its no vacation for you but it will be a brake from the stress for him you will understand what a anglie he is and you and he can spend some good times with your dad before the sad god bless you both

Why on earth would someone bring home an elder who falls all the time from the ER? If it were me, I would ask for admission and a full work up to find out what's going on in his head. Both neuro and psych evals are called for. There might be something that can be fixed! Plus, if doc says he needs a skilled facility, brother might actually comply.

Does brother have any money of his own, or is he staying with dad from fear/obligation/guilt AND financial woes?

I totally agree with you surprise! Falling all the time SHOULD be a red flag to get our loved one evaluated! Sure wish we could get brother in law to do that, but he refuses. He will let her go back home after broken shoulder heals a little, so she can fall again...my only hope is she doesn't injure herself worse next time, or die. Especially since she still DRIVES! GRRRRR.

Frustrated sis can I just add my two pennorth please.

If your brother is depressed and from some of your comments he may be in quite a deep depression then the 'yes but' state can become the norm for him because he doesn't actually recognise where HE is in the framework of things. He has possibly inculcated the victim mentality into his daily routine and the fact that he sees you as company not a relative has rung alarm bells for me.

Speaking from a personal perspective I would be flying out for a week long visit but I would also in advance arrange some interventions to take place WHILE I WAS THERE not just for your Dad but for your brother too.

I would hate for you brother to be in an anomic potentially suicidal state and no-one to recognise it....... pushing away family who care is quite typical of that feeling (and of a host of others before you start over worrying)

Something certainly has to change and someone has to have the strength to stand up to your dad and say - this is how it is ....we love you we care about you and now we are going to make sure you are cared for. You clearly cannot do it for yourself (and explain why you think that) and xxxxxx cannot be expected to do it 168 hours a week so we are going to get help - you might as well accept it because it IS GOING TO HAPPEN. The only alternative you have is to go into ALF...your choice Dad. If you tell us both to get out then we will call social services immediately to explain the situation. As it is they are her (because you will have invited them) to discuss with you and us what YOU want and what WE can and are prepared to do. This has to work for everyone and you have to accpet that ALL OF US are involved not just you.

Then take it from there. I am sending over the flak jackets and helmets! Good luck hun let us know how it goes xxxx

Caring for. My mom shut me down. I was like a robot but didn't realize it. When my sister who is 80s said she was coming to visit I feared the hug would shatter my constitution. Get his dr to mentally check him. I hate to send someone out of their home. Sometimes there is just no choice. At least tell him nurse moving in and will be respected or he WILL be going to assisted living because he is loved. Have paperwork from dr to show him. Must visit often to assisted living to be sure good care. Bro is in place I was it is heartbreaking. My mom passed feb 22 after 27 falls that thank god broke nothing. Missed 101 by 4 wks. I still feel guilty I could not continue but I was falling asleep on my feet started anxiety palms etc. the guilt if he lays at home bleeding to death would not go away. God bless you all. You are not alone there are thousands of us in same boat. Their stubbornness and independence are great until it's their nemesis.

Meant to say anxiety palpitations

I suggest starting by calling the local social services for the elderly in the area where your dad lives. If you can get them to visit your dad and brother, perhaps they can come to some kind of deal. I fully understand never wanting to move, and I think in-home care is worth a shot. My mother had it before she died, and she was very hard to deal with. As others have said, the caregivers are used to problem patients. If you make your dad understand that the caregivers are just there to help and be his servants and that the alternative would be for him to leave his home, he should agree. If not, then it would be time for lawyers. I'm doing my best to avoid that myself with my father.

Okay... I think we are being a bit hard on the brother. Something that many, many people face is that the parent doesn't want to leave the home and won't allow anyone to come in. This is a very common scenario. We can say that the brother should make it happen, but caregivers are not superhumans that can make other people do things they refuse to do. The most they can do when caring for someone with a strong personality is to decide what they themselves will do.

After caregiving a strong personality for many years, a person can get lost. It does not mean that they are weak, but it does indicate they need some good input in their lives. Maybe instead of saying you are coming to visit, tell him you are going to come take care of your dad for a week, so your brother can have some respite time. For a caregiver, family coming in to visit often just means extra work.

From your brother's prospective, he is stuck. His father won't let anyone in, won't leave his home, and there's no family to help. His sibling has a family, so is not able to contribute much. And there's the criticism, probably from his father and from the sound of this message, from the sibling who is far away. He probably feels he is doing the best he can under bad circumstances and can't find the resources to pull himself up. I don't know why parents do this to their children, but many will do it.

So get in there and help your brother in a positive way. He needs hope and respite. He needs understanding that he is doing a good job with a difficult person. Maybe you can talk your father into coming out to stay with you for a while so your brother can have some time for himself. I don't know what would work in your instance, but you may be able to come up with some ideas if your father won't go into assisted living.

Like so many of us caregivers burnout is rampant. However, continuing to feel guilty about living far away is futile, with only damage to yourself. Your brother is a grown man. He has to do what he does, and you can only offer support. I would consider you "company" too because you get to leave. He does not. Remember, we choose our friends, but cannot choose our relatives. Men especially have a hard time accepting their limitations, so you can only offer suggestions, what they do with them is up to them. Calm down! Be good to yourself.

JessieBelle, you said it. Respite is a godsend. My sister and I share caregiving responsibilities for my mom. My mom is a beautiful and easy-going person. There are times when other siblings have tried to take advantage of our mom regarding borrowing money and not repaying. My mon says nothing to them, but expresses her displeasure with me. But because of my sister's co-caregiving, she and I are able to speak up for mom and get those moochers to pay. It is too bad to call family members moochers, but part of being a great caregiver is to step to the wrongdoers and call them out.

Ferris, well said. I started thinking about the advice for the sister to call in social services. I believe this would be a terrible mistake unless the brother is going seriously offtrack and they need to intervene. I looked over brother's history -- long-term caregiving and he left his job to do it 24/7. He is probably at least partially financially dependent on his father. He is so painted in a corner. I wish we could have told him not to quit his job back in the beginning. I do hope he is able to put a life back together for himself. I know he worries as he sees his life ticking away, caring for a difficult father.

your brother is paralyzed emotionally and can't imagine how anything will work - he needs as much help as your father. I agree with JudeAH completely. things to consider: when there is an outside caregiver your dad may behave differently - right now he and your brother have their complicated relationship which makes caregiving difficult; My parents live in an ALF and I have seen some men initially hate ALF and then they begin to flourish with all of the people around and the new relationships they make with staff and residents, so don't anticipate the worst; doctors also can prescribe that a person needs ALF or nursing home - does your father have primary care doctor he likes and respects?; try to step back and don't take anything personally. thinking of you....

Reddy, I think all 24/7 caregivers need respite as often as possible. It can keep them from sliding down into a hole of despair. Living in a house with an elder can be like dwelling in a cave sometimes. No one comes in or out. It is just you, the elder, and your mop. Who wouldn't start to despair after a while. I think working from home is good for caregivers if they can do it. It gives a sense of hope and purpose, plus brings in cash. There are many people whose whole life is devoted to care and housework. They are unable to leave without someone coming in. These people need a lot of support that is often not there for them.

Oh, I see I wrote "social services." I meant a "social worker." The first is meant more to lodge a complaint or force the issue while the second mostly listens and offers advice, or so I've been told. You can call the aging services and speak to a social worker anonymously as well and just ask for advice. I too agree that it's not fair to blame the brother. I'm more in his position. I didn't quit my job but I do everything for my father and I. Yet, dad won't clean himself. Social services might consider that neglect but it's easy to criticize. They weren't here when I told him to use soap, to let me wash his clothes, to get a hair cut hundreds of time with no results. It's easy to blame others but until you're living their lives, don't judge. My father went legally insane three times and was committed, and unless you've had that happen to your immediate family that you're living with, trust me, you have absolutely no idea how life altering and horrible it is. As such, I can say I have no idea what those of you with loved ones with Alzheimer's are going through. I don't know for sure if my father has dementia (mom had him tested 2 years ago, and it was mild to moderate then but they wouldn't diagnose due to his mental illness). All I know is that nobody's home.

Frustratedsis....I was going to stay out of this but, well, I am your brother. Not literally, of course, but I fully understand what he's going through & where he's coming from.

My elderly mother moved into my house about 10 years ago. I have been actively assisting her with various aspects of her life for the past 5 years. Over the past 2-3 yrs, the amount of help Mom needed increased steadily & I was incredibly stressed out trying to do for her & work a full-time job. My brother is single, has no children, lived only 2.5 miles down the road & it took an act of God to get him to lift a finger to help me with Mom or even give me 2 hours of respite. Mom obviously needs AL & I knew I would benefit from it, as well, as a stress reducer. Problem is, Mom ADAMANTLY refuses to go & equally adamantly refuses in-home help while I work. She is "fine". I consulted with local aging agencies & a lawyer & I was basically told I was screwed because she was competent to refuse AL or any other service. Like your brother, I was also told that I could be prosecuted for neglect if I left her alone or moved her to her own apartment & something happened to her because I know she needs help. Talk about being put between a rock & a hard place! The more stressed I became, the more I resented the fact that my brother was living his own life, coming & going as he wished, taking vacation trips & not having any responsibilities beyond himself. I also have flashes of resentment that my mother is being so selfish about the AL or in-home care as to rob me of a normal middle-age life. No one, no agencies & no lawyers have been able to give me any solutions or any help. I have quit my job to care for her 24/7. I go nowhere that she doesn't go & my hobbies of hiking & horseback riding have all been put on hold since I can't be away from her. I know I'm at huge risk for caregiver burn-out but I have pursued all of the "angles" to get help & I've been abandoned by the system to fend for myself. I know the challenges your brother faces! I tell you all of that to say this, JessieBelle got it right. There is no bigger gift you can give a caregiver than respite...even if just for 2 hours. Maybe you can suggest to your brother that you come, not for a visit, but as a stand-in caregiver while he gets away. Even if he decides he doesn't want to go away, possibly you can still lighten his load by assisting during waking hours & then returning to a hotel at night. If he doesn't have the added "work" of hosting a live-in visitor, he might be more receptive.

How are you in your early 50s and still raising children? How old are your children? Why can't the father of these children help out?

Let's see your brother took care of your mother and now your dad and you got off the hook for that completely.

After 9 years of caregiving I would be depressed to, and yes in some states(FL is one of them) your brother would be facing charges if he walked away from the situation.

Shame on you for a waiting for things to get this extreme to step in, IDK any women in their early 50s who have children so young that they can't be left for awhile or with a friend or family member, at best your youngest has to be 10.

And yes, you have become company, when one sibling does it all, doesn't visit often, never offers a break to the caregiver, you do become company when you decide to show up.

I know....your brother chose this...LOL.

The best thing you can do is just be a good listener for your brother and make an offer of help that is beneficial for your brother until he is ready to accept he can no longer take care of your dad. Right now your brothers is not looking for solutions, but emotional and pysical support..

oh my- I'm going to offer an answer before reading other answers, but I'm interested in the other answers. First I would say, it's not your fault, but if you haven't been there physically regularly, you are the same as "company". Try as hard as you can to not take that personally. Your brother has been in survival mode for a long time. My opinion is no depression drugs for him, but when this is over, he needs lots of help and maybe drugs then. (just my reaction, I'm not informed on such matters). I would say- tell your brother to please find a date that you can come that would be ok with him, and for him to give you enough notice to be able to arrange to go there. There is no way to understand what that existence is like unless you go there and be prepared to work your butt off physically, just doing what you notice and doing things your brother's way, not your way. Then when you have to return to your home, you go and there's not much more you can do. Go back again when you can. And maybe your brother will have a new idea by the time you're about to leave and you can talk about it. My sister comes for a week soon, for the first time since I started 24/7 care of Mom and Dad two years ago. Not the first time she's been here, she visited, but the fist time she's going to help me and relieve me completely for five days, if possible. So my answer to you comes from my current experience and hope.

ok, read the other answers, and I have to say I agree with Irishboy the most.

I can't add much to these brilliant comments, except this: I admire what your brother has done for his parents, and I admire your involvement and concern even though you must live far away. As someone who is diagnosed with depression myself, I agree with other comments. It distorts your perception and judgment. I would be very concerned about your brother's well being and his ability to provide care to a father who needs help with virtually everything, and is "difficult". This would be a monumental job for a well person. If you are able, traveling there to help might ease your mind and provide insight that you cannot get from phone or email. I know that there is help for your family, and I hope that you will be able to make your way to a better situation for everyone.

Frustrated Sis. I for one do not agree with people who consider you negligent. Did they miss the part about the custody situation, where you can't permanently relocate out of state?

That said, Olly is right. Brother feels obliged to do it all himself, he is afraid if he gets a taste of what it might be like to have some help, he won't be able to handle it alone again, and yes, you should go. "I am NOT company, I do not expect to be entertained or taken care of, I am your sister and his daughter, and if you think I am going to let you kill yourself doing this all alone with no respite, you have another think coming!!" You may find that Dad is being taken care of perfectly well and brother is overstating things. You may find it has gone to hell in a hand basket. Whatever you find, you will at least have a shot at figuring out what you WANT to do, need to do, and wish you could do...and then what is actually possible for you to do under the circumstances. Maybe you will find there are some things you can manage from afar and reduce your brothers workload, and maybe you can set up a regular respite plan, even if no one is willing to make a more major change. Maybe you can set up a webcam and Skype for them and manage a chit chat with Dad after you go back that would give your brother a few unoccupied minutes on a regular basis. I'm afraid you have almost no way to know until you go.

We moved my mom (who has dementia) in with my husband and I, over 2 years ago, when she was 90. She is 92 now, and well into moderate dementia. Both of my brothers live in California, and both were adamant about being available to fly out to visit Mom and relieve me of caretaker duties any time I needed it. Yeah, that didn't happen, especially with my oldest brother. So far, he has flown out once, stayed with my mom for 5 days and complained the entire time. My other brother is getting ready to come out for the second time this year and hopefully soon, will be moving to the same state we live in. My oldest brother is too busy going to Hawaii and wherever else his wife wants to go. She, herself, was out here once, 30 years ago. I can't count the times I've gone out there. My life pretty much ended when Mom moved in here, but I know I am doing something good and as long as we can keep Mom home, that's what we will do. My oldest brother will have to answer to the same Maker that I do someday.

ccflorida, thank you and I hope when your sister comes this time she steps up to the plate and helps.

debrakgray, that's the kind of help I got. None, I had to ask a 45yr old man to please go get the mail, take in the empty trash can, while cleaned soiled bed sheets.

Than I had people said to me "well maybe he doesn't know what to do"...SMDH...he sees me preteating sheets to go in the washer, while he sat on his a** talking on his phone.

I noticed the OP in her profile says she is caregiving for her father, no your brother is doing that. I understand your own children come first, but at some point she could have done much more than she did. Don't make the brother who has done 9 years of caregiving the bad guy.

You are both in tough positions. Your brother's reluctance to put your dad in a nursing home is understandable. In my experience the care and quality of life are substandard. In-home care is needed to help with your dad; and it's good your brother is there to help monitor. He may be able to get help from Medicare or Medicaid. If he can afford an elder attorney for financial guidance that is imperative. They know how to position him financially to apply for help. Medicaid will come in to evaluate your dads needs and determine the number of hours he qualifies for. If he cannot afford an attorney, Elder-Source is a great resource for guidance. Good luck to all of you.

I have to say- we have almost all put some hostility into our answers (understandable), but I see no hostility in the question and explanation of the situation. It seems the brother and sister are communicating. How would this be written if the brother were writing it? Sister, you gotta go help your brother help your Dad. You are # 3 in this trio. You seem to want to help. Do it. It must be in person, doing the grunt work. Chores. No time to figure out who will help. You go help for a while.