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I know many of us have been there. Yesterday I was talking with the hospice nurses as she was being admitted to hospice service.

Mom saw me in the room, rattled the knob and kicked the door before we could open it. She has a bruise on her face from a fall last week. When the hospice nurse asked her how she got that bruise she looked straight at me with an angry face and said "My daughter beats me up." She was perfectly serious and believable, probably would have passed a lie detector test.

All the times she hit me as I was growing up, I have never laid a hand on her; I would not dream of it. Her comment really stung me.

So my question is, what do you say to yourself to heal up from these cuts?

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Save yourself. Your mom has lived her life...now you live yours. Sounds as if your mom is using you as an emotional punching bag. She is no longer exerting her physical power over you but rather, still has an emotional strong hold on your well being. Your role as a responsible & caring daughter will remain in tack for the long haul if you set boundaries now and make yourself a priory. I was beaten as a child and like yourself I never hit my mother. Although, I threatened to do so when I was 20 years old. My mother lives in an ALF/Memory Care unit and I visit her regularly, take her to appointments & outings( if she wants ), interact with MD & care givers as her advocate, as well as sit & listen, try to reassure her & validate her feelings. However, I measure my time & energy so that I can sustain my support until the end of her life. I am taking it one day at a time because that is the only way to put this experience in perspective. All the best as you make your way along this most challenging of life's journeys.
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The mother daughter role seems to change as the parent deteriorates. Fear drives a lot of their hurtful comments which often are childish, and because the daughter is looking for love in the situation and not finding it, the hurt cuts deep. I found I had to physically toughen up and realize that God is looking after the situation too, pull back and do what I could - from a distance. Was hard for the first week, but after that I found different ways of sorting the situation. I am now beginning to see a similar situation with my father and finding it easier this time round to know how to cope without being an emotional mess. Not remembering the bad comments and replaying them in the mind is a hard thing..but eventually compassion helps to let it go, realizing it is a common situation with elderly parents everywhere.
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Mom also has dementia. Lived with us when Dad went into hospital and accuses us of hitting her & pushing her down. Thing is we never torched her but she has knocked my husband down three time and takes his glasses off and tries to step on them. She hits me in the head. Drew blood on my husband 3 times on his face when she grabs his glasses!! Called 911 and said we were beating her up. First aide squad came with police and wanted to take my husband into emergency room. She got much worse after 65 years of marriage when my Dad died Nov. 2, 2015 from liver cancer. When he went into hospital he had marks on him and was asked what happened? He said that his wife did it. (my Mother!!) We did not believe him but now think that he was telling the truth!! Dad died at 90 Mom now is 91. Dec. 30th 2015 had to put Mom in memory unit because police kept calling 911. She has dementia. Now husband my husband will not go to see her because she keeps saying that he beat her up. She is making life 200% harder on me. Yes take Pams' advice and try to have someone there with you when you see her. I know it hurts...
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Due to a health scare for myself, I am now looking at assisted living facilities in my area that do respite care in case I have surgery. I am hoping I find one "Mommy Dearest" likes so much she wants to stay, I can dream.I am on the start of my 4th year of living with someone I absolutely hate, yes, hate.She does not have dementia, if only, that would at least be an excuse. I think I am just dying inside just being in her vicinity.
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Mother-daughter relationships are often tangled,convoluted and difficult. The important thing now is that you nurture a pleasant relationship with your husband and child. You have to let go of trying to please someone who is not accepting your overtures as you would like. You will feel more free yourself. Malachy
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Thanks robimar there is some comfort in knowing others experience family segregation. Im finding this site quite the "emotional go to place" for me atm. After all the notes i found about "do not trust nikki1234 and she is a b*tch, I thought id give mum some space for a while and keep my distance in hope she may "forget". I rang her today to say hi and just chat and she was as cold as ice. She had been "very busy" and was just waiting for someone to pick her up to take her out to lunch. When i said "thats lovely,who are you going with?" She refused to tell me. Woulndt say where she was going just "out to lunch with some lovely friends". I said that now the kids are back at school i could come up one day next week and take her out ( even though i still have my demanding 3 yr old runaway with me). She said she was busy with so many appointmentz and wasnt available. The conversation lasted maybe 6 minutes at best and i felt gutted.. My debarcle is do i continue this emotional rollercoaster and continue calling and forever get the cold shoulded reminder of mums rejection every time or do i just bow out completly. As ive said before her basis for not trusting me is because i have a good relationship with my father. My (possibly cold) common sense says she wont change and itd be like hitting my head against a brick wall if i continue calling. I certainly cant take her to appointmets or the like. Common sense says just stay in the background until she doesn't remember me and thinks im just a cleaner-ill be treated much nicer then and it will be easier to visit her. There is very little that suggests i should do anthing to the contrary. I havent had a relationship with mum for so long that im struggling to even feel guilt with how i want to cope with the situation and ive assessed wether im in denial or ignorant about her condition and i dont think i am . I will sometimes cry (because im hurt) but often i feel numb and this effects my family. I know i will mourn the loss of having a "chance" of a normal mother daughter relationship for a long time but i think if i do the right thing and focus on my relationships with my children and hubby that void will easily be filled....
Aleigha00 how are you going in your camp?? Any change on the homw front x
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Aleigha00, why in the world would you keep going through this? Enough is enough. You've done all you can. It's time to explore placement in a facility. If she can't afford it I think there are options that Medicare/Medicaid pays for. It may not be what she wants but you need your life and home back.
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All you ladies are steel magnolias. That is, you are strong and beautiful. You are doing the best you can. I did my best (with lots of lapses).Life has thrown each of you great challenges..and you are dealing with them. I find sharing and opening up to tell what you are going thru is very,very important. Somehow it halves the pain. You are not alone. Many of us are in there with you all the way.
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Hi Hopeless! (((((HUGS)))) Will have to add more later. Thank you for the words of encouragement & you too, be strong...It took a lot of energy to post before as its hard to open up & share all of this mess. Remember, we are called to do this task whether voluntary/involuntary for whatever reason. Keep in mind, its only for a season too. I will share more soon.
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aliqhua,

OMG!!!! what a mess. I think everyone on this site can relate to everything your going through. Same here, I am the only one. My mother hides information from me too. She uses my brother as a threat, because she talks with him and his whole family everyday. Which most people would think that it was a nice, caring act on their part, but, they only started calling my mother after they found out my dad only had a year, or months to live.

They have told the rest of my family, that she can rotate with the rest of the siblings. WHAT! He didn't stay 20 minutes with her, when my dad died. His family stayed in a hotel for 4 days, before the funeral. Would run like heck when the sun went down, so they could go party or whatever. They left and broke more things than I can count, but as usual, I am the one fixing all of them.

Dad owns a lot of property, and he feels like HE is the patriarch of the family now and we should bow to his wishes. Needless, to say. We don't speak.

I feel so bad for you, having to live with that 24/7. What a nightmare. If it takes moving her to another state for AL with memory help, I would do it and FAST!!! This type of thing will cause so much anger and animosity between you and your husband. Neither one of you need this in your life. I know it sounds cruel and maybe to some "unchristian" but, it's the hard truth.
I wish you all the luck, prayers and hope you both deserve.
My mother has always been miserable and is worse even now, that she doesn't have my dad around to berate, scold, lie, with hold information from him, just to get him back for not listenening to her non stop his every waking moment. He was a saint, and you two are too, to put up with all of that. I don't include me, because, my heart is turning so cold towards her, it hurts. keep us updated. BE STRONG for each of you, "easier said than done" I know.......
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My husband's 93 year old GM moved in with us this past November after she was treated for congestive hear failure & starting to wander in her assisted living facility whom does not handle memory care patients. The other alternative moving her into a memory care facility. GM moved near us in 2013 with grandpa. He passed May, 2014. Since they moved, I have been the sole care giver for both. GM has low sodium...
GM is a diva...grandpa did everything for her before he died. After his passing, she was bored, lonely, would hardly participate in any activities at the assisted living center. She was in better shape than most seniors living there. However, she wanted 24/7 attention & did not care how she got it including making herself sick etc...which she still is today. She didn't like it if the doctor told her she was fine & come back in 3-6 months...sure enough, we would be back in doctor's office within 2 weeks for whatever reason....prior to moving in with us...she was in hospital every 6 months...
Her meds; Buspirone, Clonzapam were prescribed before her move to assisted living...how long she has been on them...we do not know.

Grandma complained alot before moving in with us...someone stealing, taking her jewelry, residents at the center where she lived...never happy about anything...always complaining, food etc...it was endless.

Since she has been living with us....which has been only 2 months...I have been accused of stealing her money, jewelry, hearing aids, keeping her a prisoner, etc...it goes on & on. My home is a revolving door with the visiting nurses, now I have a counselor on board. Next a neurologist appt at end of month...she has not been assessed yet for ALZ/Dimentia...however she has extreme paranoia, mood swings, sundowners, etc....& she is manipulative & controlling...
GM will tell visiting nurses we have done the above, however does not communicate to us directly her issues.
She is combative, trys to walk without her walker, hides/chipmonks her meds/spits them out. I know when she is taking her meds as opposed to not...now she is on a several more; Zanax, lexapro, Seraquill....the seraquill helps at night if I can get her to take it....she does not want to as she wants to stay awake at night & sleep through the day...I am now doubling the seraquill per doctor...she was creeping around house all night 5-6 bathroom trips in a 3 hour period...
We gave up our bedroom for her & we sleep in living room. My hubby put up curtains to block off dining room & she does not like it. We have no living room anymore & cannot allow her in our sleeping quarters as she will never go to bed!
She would creep the hallway all night & stand & listen to hear what we are doing/saying. We have no privacy, nor does she want us to have any including getting mad if hubby talks to me more than she. Hubby put up motion lights which decreased the nightly bathroom trips significantly. She told VNA we are recording her! lol...she is upset as she knows we know what she is doing...

I may add her daughter is 72 years of age & is bi-polar manic depressive, other grandson whom passed 2 years ago was schizophrenic manic depressive, his daughter has a slight case of something...not sure what...however we have no idea if GM was diagnosed with anything...she lived far away for last 30 years. Claims no one ever told her she had heart problems, low sodium etc...she does not want us to know her previous history....
We are limited as to family help...my hubby's parents are aged...GM has hardly any other family left...only 1 sister who lives 8 hours away & a sister-in-law who lives in another state. My hubby's mom (GM's daughter has the bi-polar) is physically & mentally incapable. My hubby's sister lives 3 hours away however useless as a 3 dollar bill. This leaves just me & my hubby.

At this point, we don't know what is going on with GM except all roads are leading to Dimentia. Counselor says she has it...told me to get into therapy.
GM says she hears people, someone knocking at her door at 4am, people coming in her room at night stealing, throwing her things in hallway & says they are not hers when it clearly has her name on it...etc...

Whats up with the creep laugh? She laughs at everything & snickers at me if my hubby says something off-handed to me or if I drop something.

This is what I am going through ....I have been reading the board for quite sometime now. Hi to everyone & thank you for sharing your story...it's very difficult to deal with someone who does not want to be on this earth & wants everyone to be miserable as she is....there is rationale there in the midst of the chaos....
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One of the most helpful things a counselor told me was that my mother was projecting all her self hate and anger on me. Which is not to say it didn't hurt, but she's always been mean. In the 7 yrs she's been in a facility, I've relied on professional counselling, the experience of friends who've been there and already experienced all these things, and anything I can to help me deal with it. One of the most effective things has been to just say "If you are going to put me or my children down, I'm leaving. I'll come back when you are in a better mood." And I follow through on it. For some reason, she seemed to think that I should just sit there and listen to her make vile comments and accusation. Maybe because my Dad did that.
I agree with those who have told you to place her in a home. Also excellent advice I received from a counselor was to NEVER let her live with me, because I would be trapped and at her mercy, just like when I was a child and she would say mean and hateful things. I always remembered that, and thank God I did. As you can see, we have quite a history.
As her dementia seems to be getting worse, she changes the facts of stories. One of which is she tells everyone she's had a stroke, but brain scans say otherwise. Whether this is to elicit pity, or to try to explain to herself why she cannot do certain things any more, I have no idea. I just bite my tongue and let her fabricate whatever she wants, as disagreeing with her evokes rage.
Kind of in a bad place myself so my patience is low. My ability to cope is limited by my own situation....don't do well if I am tired, dealing with other issues, or feeling ill. Just have a cold, but feel crabby and irritable, so I will stay home for a few days until I'm in a place where I can cope.
The wish for our parents love and approval never seems to leave....at least for me. So when they call you names, or run you down, or try to embarrass you in front of others, it can hurt. Yes, for some it's the disease, it's the disease. But if you have lived with a disapproving and mean parent all your life, you may have to learn you don't NEED their approval or love. I've had to come to terms with it. I still wish I had it, but have accepted it will never come. God loves me, my kids love me, and mother doesn't love me because she doesn't love herself. Just the way it is.
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Nikki..I too wish I could have loving memories from the days I am with my 102 mother at her assisted living facility. There are stories about how wonderful it was to be with their mother when they passed and they cherish that moment. I can't remember the last time my mother said something kind or nice to me! She is definitely self involved at this time and she doesn't relate to me as a daughter only another caregiver..The caregivers don't have names other than "girl" (or "boy")..She will say, "I have one of my "girls" coming in at 8:00 to put me to bed"..etc.It's hard to watch and very hard not to take some of the things she says personally. I only visit once a week, and call between visits; however, if I feel as though her words are as sharp as a knife..I cut the visit short. She has some dementia but not alzheimers ...and, she doesn't forget a thing! Unfortunately, the bond is gone.
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Wow hopless,it is very bizarre to hear a stranger describe in such detail what another has experiencex-you were describing my life completely. I have to agree and use the dimentia to your advangage and remove the keys. It feels quite cruel and deceitful but its for your own sanity and protection. I personally will support you in your choice if you go down this road. Its not easy to be deceitful when its not in your nature. Its easy for outziders to suggest you moving in but its very difficult. From experience, take some time to think about some boundaries for yourself and how much time you can dedicate without it crippling you emotionally. If it leaves you in a position where mum needs more care to come in or it means she needs to go into care, dont feel guilty. Ive found more terrible notes at my mums and now it doesnt affect me so badly. I just wish i could have some loving memories of her before the dimentia but there haven't been any for a long time. I was the first to put my hand up and keep mum out of a home or assisted living situation, now-(and without guilt), that day cant come fast enough for her own safety. Let us know how you go with the keys. I did the same but i took a house key from mum just incase there was ever an emergency and she was lying on the floor or something. Much less hassel than breaking a window!! Im 40 and was never trusted to have a house key- nor get her mail all because it was viewed as an attemt to gain info for my dad xxx good luck with the keys x
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Hopeless - for what possible reason does your mother need the keys to your house?!!! For goodness sakes - get the locks changed! It will cost a little bit to pay a locksmith but you'll avoid a confrontation that could come by asking for the key back. Or - use her dementia to your benefit for a change - just sneak the key away and if she mentions it..,"no mom, I haven't seen your keys, can you remember the last time you saw them?" Followed with - should she ask- "I'll get you a new one next time I'm at the store". Lather, rinse, repeat.
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That behavior is hurtful and unacceptable! Can you get her some psych meds?
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I had a similar experience, My Grandmother (93) was prescribed Pradaxa and Sotalol on Feb 11 -2011 and sent home telling her no need for monitoring.
Within a day she could not get out of bed, I took her to the ER and the Dr was horrified, he had never seen anyone overdosed on Pradaxa yet and certainly not a 90 yr old! who weighed 105 lbs.. Her care became an extreme level of dedication, I alone could never do it, she required help with everything and was up every 4-6 hours or more. A fly was dispatched as soon as she requested, food what/ when, back rubs, My girlfriend hand washed her for 2 yrs and I am shockerd at how intimate she was yet hold such hidden disdain and have such cruelty in store for us both as she enjoyed our slavish care and breached my contract not to revoke my 50% share of the family trust, I asked for no pay, just no harm, and still I was cut out over 6 codicils and well over a year before she left my home and had to go to 3 care homes her last 4 months.
I learned that she cut me out I was the only one who did not know and everyone acts like it was true now she is dead and nobody has to step up and actually care for her as her ability to demonstrate appreciation diminished to the point she must have hated me but stayed to enjoy knowing what horror awaited me and she was benefitting full time slaves for free!
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Regarding the crushed pill in applesauce etc. Here in the US patients who live in nursing homes usually must have their meds delivered in cardboard cards . Each pill must be initialed next to its space when it is popped out of the card. If the patient is not able to take the pill or is harboring the pill in their mouth then it is common to crush and mix with something. I am not sure a doctors orders would really prevent any overdosing in a private home…unless the med was being fraudulently ordered too frequently. If the medicine cannot be compounded into a liquid then it really is the only way to administer the meds. What I always question is the efficacy of the drug once it is pulverized and how much the patient really gets.
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I went through the accusations and lies for months whilst my mum was deteriorating. My dad was the main caregiver but under her control. My best defence was to have someone with me each time I visited. You must protect yourself as even other siblings believe what is said by the parent. My experience only came to an end when a Professional Care nurse witnessed what was happening and helped me see that I had to pull back for my own health and wellbeing. My mum passed away Boxing Day. The hurt somehow lifted after that and I could balance what had been happening and feel at peace with it. Now I choose to remember her in happier times and let the rest go.
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Hi Robimar,

i'm so glad that you found something that works for you. However, please be warned that there may come a time when you find yourself at your wits end and having to leave when you've had enough. Sometimes you may have to do whatever you have to do for your own well-being as well as your own sanity. Sometimes leaving is the only choice, so don't be surprised if something happens on one of those visiting days, and you find yourself having to leave and cut the visit short. I'm not sure how often you visit your loved one, but if anything ever happens that causes you to have to leave, you may have to spread the visits further apart. Let's say you visit once a week. Let's say there's a problem on the day you visit, and the problem causes you to have to leave during that visit. This may be a cause to spread the visits out to every two weeks. If the problem still persists, you may have to spread it out to only once a month or once every two months or so on. If it gets to once a yearor so, You may want to really do some serious soul searching to see if it's really worth it. You may want to see if your current lifestyle is actually more comfortable without that problem person, which may actually be a good opportunity to see if you'd really be best to stop visiting altogether. See if you don't feel better right away after leaving, and pay very close attention to how you feel when you've left the apartment and even the building. If you find yourself feeling better right away, this is a sure sign that you may be better off without that person, Which may also be a very good opportunity for you to make any necessary changes for your own well-being
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Malachy2 I am not sure what the situation is in your country but I believe it is illegal to crush up medications and put them into apple sauce etc. without the knowledge/permission of the recipient. Doing so could lead to accusations of overdosing and leave you with nothing to back up your actions. Possibly one way around this would be to get a written order from the physician stating that it is OK for the caregiver to crush medications and put them in apple sauce or some other medium.
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1RareFind..thanks for your comment..and glad you don't look back. I did say goodbye to my sister when my mother was placed in an assisted living facility..we don't speak. I set up one visiting day with my mother and anything and everything that I can do for her gets done on that day. She has good care and I have piece of mind when I leave.
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As an abuse survivor myself, the only thing I would have to say in this kind of situation is "goodbye" and not look back, blunt but true
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I have cared for my 102 year old mother for 5 years... who now lives in an assisted living facility. My older sister was always absent when it came to caring responsibilities for any family member has more money than anyone in the family. She pays for help needed and other basic care needs...and that is her excuse when asked for help.."I paid for this" so let (Me) do the care giving and do the driving etc. and make the doctor's calls, etc. Now, I call myself "Cinderella" to the family and they don't like to hear me say that because they agree with the sister who has the money. If I added up the costs of caring for mom, which I do free, I told my sister, "she would be bankrupted." I really don't think having the most money should let any family member off the hook for being responsible. After refusing some of the family orders because I felt the need to take time off..my mother finally got it..when I didn't show up to help..Now I have set boundaries for myself..and I hope this change is clear to the ones who do nothing but give orders.. Sigh
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Sophe509--Please heed the suggestions you've received. When my 95-year old Aunt came to live with, I took her to new doc to get her evaluated. I asked about PT thinking it would help strengthen her. One night she got upset about her dog passing, didn't pay attention to what she was doing and fell. She was OK--nothing broken, just sore. As it happened, PT came the next day. As she loves to do with anyone who will listen, she told him all her woes including how sore she was from the fall. He immediately began asking me extensive questions--when, how, why--and made suggestions as to changes in her room that would make it easier for her to navigate . As is the law, he had to report it to his office and her doctor and to the nurse. When the nurse came that afternoon, she had to report her observations as well. His words to me still ring in my ears...."Well, it does appear that she fell." Don't get me wrong, he was very nice but it put me on guard. When I had agreed for her to come stay with me I had not for one minute thought about having to be careful and watch my back. Since she has been with me she has shared that the cousin she was with before threatened to hit her, pushed her, poked her. I don't know if that is true and, no, I haven't asked. Her personality has always been "it's all about me", "I want what I want and I want it now", and every gift she gave had strings. I love her very much because she has always been very loving towards me. But I will tell you this truth: if she ever outright accuses me of mistreating her in any way, I WILL move her into a NH post haste. Lot for you to think about and Good Luck!
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Let us hang in there together. We are all going thru the same accusations,violence,abuse etc. Keep in mind It is the disease,not the person.
When someone steps on your toe, it hurts. If it were an accident, one forgets it quickly although you still have to take care to ice your toe. Same here.YOU must take care of yourself and put things in perspective. The disease is the demon:it destroys the brain and the relationship. Think of your mom as your patient, not your mom anymore. Your mom may be essentially gone. She is probably furious because she is losing her very self.No wonder she is angry.
keep calm and carry on.
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Most childbeaters were beaten themselves as children and don't know any other response to anger, even without dementia. Document, get as much evaluation as possible for both physical and neurological things going on, and go from there. Pay for strength and if your presence is a trigger, remove yourself.
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Smash up the tablets (unless they are time-released) and put them into applesauce. Drug stores sell crushers for this purpose.
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Ladies, I feel so much better after reading about your experiences. A year and a half ago I quit my job, rehome do my pets and moved back to my home town to be of assistance to my parents. The family expected my mother to pass due to her health conditions but unfortunately it was my dad who went. I had just moved into my own apartment but mom's needs were such that I have to stay with her and take care of her. A year later I still have not unpacked my place. I have tried to be a good daughter but it's been difficult with my overbearing, controlling verbally abusive mom. She has not been diagnosed with dementia although I do see symptoms occasionally and report them to the nurse. She recently got it into her head that I'm stealing her money and has verbally attacked me viciously about it. The day before yesterday she asked me to sit on the couch, rolled her electric wheelchair near me and started screaming in my face. I decided I couldn't take it anymore and the next morning I showed her on paper an accounting of all her money and told her I was giving her 30 days to make other arrangements for her care. I have physical health problems as well and this has all just become too much for me. I know this doesn't specifically answer the original questions but I just had to get all this off my chest. The suggestions of a log and visiting with a witness are good ideas. My family sees a completely different side to mom and I expect to get some grid for my decision but I have decided to take my doctor's advice and take care of myself. I'll still transport mom to her doctor appointments and see she has her medications but I'm done being used and abused. It's just nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks
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Worrying about CPS is a real concern particularly if you have family or friends who don't accept the diagnosis. If you can afford it, get cameras installed do that, if not, keep everything open and welcome everyone into and around you and her at all times. Do nothing to cover up for her and/or her condition, you are not doing her any favors andcouldbe setting yourself up for charges.
Frequently people who have been violent to others ASSume others do or did the same to them. Remember they have no memory of what happened and/or happens so the claim is outragious on just the surface.
My mother had so abused herself that by the time I was taking care for her her skin would tear if just pressed too hard and she broke bones if she fell and/or bang anything very hard. She peeled all the skin off her arm brushing past a counter in her electric chair and then later tried to blame me. Fortunatly someone else was there.
While people who were involved understood all this, one of my children who never came to see her "Granny' would call CPS off and on, sure that I must be abusing this woman since she abused me as a child. While that is one way for a Stuipd person to respond to abuse, the vast majority of us never would consider such a thing.

The truth is that I never had any urge to hurt or harm this demented being because I inderstood, even as a child, that she wasn't normal. I never intended to br anything like her and never have, so I fully understand your position.
Even with all the horriable things she said and did ehen I was young, it was still hard to hear all the awful the things she claimed, that never happened, including the claim I wads throwing her around with her hair.
Of course that was impossible, however the number of so called 'professionals' who would at frist believe her stunned me! These people should have known better but demented people do sound soncere because do sound andlook since because they are. They truly believe the things they say because they believe thst is what they would do and/or it gets them attention.
I believe there are people in jail that have been wrongly convicted, so do not take this lightly. Keep a copy of doctors records with you always, and calmly and carefully explain anything to everyone.
You are helping everyone by doing this, not just protecting yourself.
The demented have no memory of what happens to them since the disease eats away the brain. Instead of saying they don't know (they can forget they can saythey don't know) so they make up something. If you are there, you become the target. Sometimes other people ask if you did something and the demented person wil just say yes or claim you never feed her.
It often is like talking to a four year old who knows nothing about consequences, so they just make up things.
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