My mother is my father’s POA and I am listed next. APS has asked if I would accept guardianship of my Father 87yrs, as my Mother 83yrs is deemed unsafe. She has 2 substantiated incidents with several other reported calls to APS from caregivers or public situations resulting in police appearance. Her inability to deal with his Sundowners and other related dementia behaviors creates the emotional and physical abuse towards My Father. His response to that abuse is classic fight or flight. He either attempts to leave the house or stops her from hitting him by grabbing her wrist and yelling at her “I will knock your head off”. The pattern is clear, she attempts to change his behavior with arguing, convincing, or yelling, which clearly escalates the situation rather than deescalate which has resulted in physical altercations. She doesn’t even feel like the incidents are a big deal. She states that’s how their relationship always was with a little smile and shrug. There is so much sadness in this situation as my Mother has over the past 4 years refused to attend support groups or speak with a therapist. She has minimal in home caregivers as she doesn’t want to spend the money. She has the money. I was spending 2 days and 1 night per week at their home and bringing freezer meals in order to lessen her stress and hopefully lessen his. That did not curb her verbal emotional abuse towards my Father. Some of it was even directed at me. There is so much stress in her life with attempting to maintain a home and care for a husband with dementia (vascular with Parkinson like symptoms). She is completely burnout. She has taken the path to cure him with supplements rather than attempting to learn and change the way she deals with his behaviors. Which brings me to my question. I have been asked to be a guardian of my father or have one appointed by the courts. I’m leaning towards court appointed mostly because of the tension that all ready exists between my mother and my self. I’m thinking it will only get worse. I’ve asked close friends, who are very familiar with guardian situations, court appointed and family guardian. I will be talking with a guardian lawyer as well to get some basic information. Any thoughts on this would be most appreciative.
You know your family dynamics better than anyone. If you truly believe in your heart of hearts that is in everyone's best interest to go court-appointed, then that's what you do.
There is no "easy" way out of this situation, just a couple of bad choices. Pick the least bad one and don't look back.
Do KNOW however, that once you accept this you can only resign the duty through a court Judge, and few will let you, EVEN IF YOU ARE ILL.
If you choose not to, the APS will now refer this for Guardianship of the State and it will all get done without you and with or without your input of permission. You would have no say in the placement and etc. The estate would be managed without your input.
I myself was Trustee of Trust and POA for a very methodical and well-
organized brother. It was still a nightmare to get everything done. I was once on the phone for almost an entire day with Spectrum when they mistakenly took the phone out of his cottage when they meant to take it out of the cottage of another senior. I kind you not. From 10:30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. I worked calling I cannot tell you how many people in how many countries from my home in S.F., CA to get this fixed in SoCal.
You know yourself, the circumstances, the amount of money you will have to work with in this estate, and the level of cooperation you can expect, so this is your decision, but the first year of getting this done will be an anxiety-provoking nightmare I think you cannot fully envision. I warn you only to help you know that and I surely do, from the bottom of my heart, wish you good luck.
Dad will be moving out right? I assume mom is considered at this point competent to care for herself so dad will be going into care as he isn’t safe around mom.
No piece of paper will make him safe if he is living with her…I assume. APS must believe he is in harms way to be living with mom so dad will be moving. Good for dad.
Or is mom being asked to leave? I doubt that but I suppose a state guarduan can do what he or she deems appropriate with courts approval.
A court appointed guardian will have to have access to all their finances, so their finances will need to be split as now guardian will be in control of dad’s portion and will be responsible to account for how it is being spent.
Does this all sound correct?
As the guardian will have no authority over mom. I suppose he could even file charges against mom if she assaulted his ward?? Then you will need to manage mom regardless, right? You mentioned you were worried about your relationship with mom. If you are going to be left to manage mom it appears to me that you are left with the short end of the stick.
How familiar with guardianship is mom? Does she understand that now she loses all control?
The problem I see is you will be left with mom and a great deal of confusion and no control over what happens to dad.
That would be very difficult for me but I’m not living this as you are.
I think I would see a CERTIFIED elder attorney well versed in Medicaid and discuss their finances for future care. If mom is truly a piece of cake when dad isn’t around I would send dad into care because mom wouldn’t qualify if she is physically okay, can do all her ADLs, etc. a portion of dads income could actually be left for moms expenses if needed. But this has to be dealt with to protect both. Not just dad.
Mom would probably need to be banned from the facility to keep her from trying to control him when she was visiting. At least until they each settle down. He will need to become accustomed to care and she to not having him around. If you aren’t the guardian, this couldn't be your decision.
I would expect both to advance in loss of cognition as that is the norm.
Were your friends who know all about guardianship in a similar situation? With a couple who were being separated and each had to have funds to live on? Maybe they have the answers.
With the proper filing to Medicaid, Mom can be protected financially because she still has to be financially able to live in the community. The house can be exempt until she passes or it needs to be sold for other reasons. One car is exempt.
Otherwise dad’s portion of their assets will need to be spent down on his care for him to qualify for Medicaid. Did your friends go through that as well? If your parents own a home and have savings then all this has to be managed correctly. A state appointed guardian is not automatically qualified or responsible to protect your mom’s future. Dad’s money is going to be spent either way as care is very expensive. I would spend on a qualified and certified elder law attorney who understands in total your parents situation and then make my decision. It is a serious commitment so no judgment here on what you decide. I’m just trying to imagine what will happen.
I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. If it were just dad then your family wouldn't be in this situation. So knowing you (or someone) is left with mom makes it harder for me to understand which would be best.
Please let us know how this plays out. We learn from one another.
Any costs should be paid by the Ward so in theory you should not have any expenses yourself.
there is record keeping that you must do. And at least yearly a report has to be submitted to the Court.
If there is a Court Appointed Guardian you will lose some control as to what happens to dad but I am sure that they will try to find placement as close as possible.
I would assume that if you did obtain Guardianship you would place dad in a Memory Care facility.
I have to ask what happens to mom at that point? Are you prepared to care for her as well? Or does she need help at this point?
They will remove dad from the abuse, that's what this is all about but, they could leave your mom struggling to make ends meet if it's not handled by a good attorney.
Guardianship is costly and ties you to this situation. For possibly years. Who knows how long?
Take over POA and make the tough decisions that are best for them. And consult an elder law attorney who can go over state laws..how - to, etc do you understand the intricacies.
"Been there done that".
THAT doesn't go well at all.
So, once you're the guardian, you make the decisions & you make the rules and it is what you say it is. Mom really can't do all of that anymore...they've both declined.. so you have to make the decisions on what's going to be what.
All the best hun!♡
It is unfortunate APS has become involved. In our experience, once they come into play, you don’t have many options.
I wish you well.
Probably your father belongs in a care facility as well.
I would stay away from a court appointed guardian.
When talking to the attorney make sure you discuss when and what needs to happen to gain POA in medical and financial of course for your father now , but also for your mother in the near future.
Kudos to you for stepping up and being a great daughter or son.
I wish you the best for your parents and you.
I have plan A,B,C most possible outcomes covered to protect both of us.
I watch for stress to make sure I protect myself by having respite every day and weekends and some evenings so I go to take classes, go dancing, go for dinner or listen to music. I need at this point to get away or do opposite as Parkinson alone is awful, sad disease.
As per Parkinson.org
Caregiver Stress
Caregiver stress is when you experience a manageable amount of stress and anxiety related to caregiving. Caregiver stress is, unfortunately, a part of life when caring for someone with a chronic illness such as PD — especially over an extended period.
Caregiver Strain
As stress and anxiety grows to be less manageable, we start calling it caregiver strain. You have reached this stage when the stress and anxiety begin to impact your ability to care for your loved one.
Caregiver strain is the perception of persistent problems and a feeling of decreased well-being that results from providing prolonged care, according to the Modified Caregiver Strain Index (a screening tool used to measure caregiver strain). This can look like forgetting more tasks than usual, feeling too fatigued to take care of yourself outside of your care duties or becoming more easily frustrated with your loved one.
Care partners can experience caregiver strain for short or long periods of time without realizing it. It is important to you have someone in your life who you can talk to when you are feeling overwhelmed or stressed about caregiving. It is in times like these that having a secondary care partner can be helpful — you can take a break while someone else helps care for your loved one.
Caregiver Burnout
Unaddressed caregiver strain progresses into caregiver burnout. Caregiver burnout is a state of physical, emotional and mental exhaustion that may include a change in attitude, from positive and caring to negative and unconcerned. Burnout can occur when caregivers don't get the help they need, or if they try to do more than they are able, physically or financially.
If you feel completely overwhelmed and checked out of your day-to-day tasks you are likely experiencing caregiver burnout. In this state, a care partner is unable to give their loved one the emotional or physical support they need.
Caregiver burnout symptoms can include:
Extreme fatigue unrelated to sleep
Unusual frustration and anger
Feeling “cloudy” or “foggy.” Often dismissed as age-related change, this can occur as a result of carrying too much responsibility and/or anxiety
Other physical symptoms may manifest as a result of emotional stress.
I believe your mother is experiencing severe caregiver burnout, she needs help.
Although nice gesture for you to bring meals, etc. but it is deeper problem. And as I said several times, never judge caregivers unless you do it for 2-5 years.
The only solution is for Dad to go to facility.
If you accept guardianship, these two need to be separated!
Find a memory care home for you father, where he is comfortable and taken care of by professionals.
If your mother is beyond being able to live independently, then she too could be placed in a separate care facility!
They both need to be rescued from their current situation; your mother is clearly burned out, and not able to provide the care her husband needs, and your father deserves better care than he is receiving.