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My mother who now lives in my home, is 93 with dementia and since her stroke last has been on Hospice. As she also has congestive heart failure and is unable to walk since her stroke, she lays in bed appearing to wait for the end which saddens me but I try to keep reminding myself that death is part of life. Both the Hospice Chaplin and friends tell me to need talk with my Mother and to let her know that I will be all right after her death and that it will make it easier for her to let go. and I know they are right, BUT, talking to her about the subject brings me to tears and I find it very difficult. Is there an easier way to talk about the subject of death with someone who going to die.

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Unfortunately, Ralph, I haven't found any other way. I think it's best to be upfront and matter of fact about it. Like you say, it is part of life. I agree with the chaplin in telling your mom you'll be alright and saying goodbye. My hospice nurse told the family that sometimes our LO is waiting for us to say goodbye. No one ever practices saying goodbye to their LO. Their death is something we eventually expect but are never ready for. Trying to soften it up could only confuse her and make her wonder "what's he talking about?".
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I don't think death itself has to be mentioned, in all truth, and personally have seen that go wrong as when my best friend, caring for her brother with AIDS, herself a hospice nurse, said "It's OK. You can go to the light." and he looked at her with absolute terror. She says she knew she went wrong, that he looked at her like "you mean I am DYING? NOW???" She says she has never said that again and she herself recommends that you say things that do not mention death or dying. People cannot die by their own wish to "let go". The body fights to live. So say things like "Do you know how much I love you. I have so many beautiful memories that you gave me. They will be with me all my life. Do you know how much you have taught me? Do you know how proud I am to be your daughter" Tell her things like "I will be OK all my life because you are my Mom". These things will give her peace without saying to her "OK. Ready for you to leave now". I am wishing you both peace. Remember, she is in her own world, with her own memories. Remind her of some of your fondest memories of your time together. Let those be what live now in her semi-dream state.
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I got told by people in real life and here on the forum that I should let my mother know that it was OK to let go if she was tired and that everything would be OK if she chose to stop fighting and because it was incomprehensible to me what was keeping her alive I tried to have that conversation a few times over the course of her illness. It did not go well, in fact in my final attempt my mother was clearly upset and terrified of the idea of dying and I vowed never to bring it up again. Just because this advice is popular does not mean it is right because one size doesn't fit all, she will go when she is ready regardless.
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When my sister was close to dying of metastatic cancer, one evening I softly mentioned to her that it was acceptable to "let go".   Being a nurse, she understood what I meant, and we had a brief exchange, in which she stated that she just wasn't ready to give up.   I understood and never mentioned it again.
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NobodyGetsIt Oct 2020
"GardenArtist," - I think it was helpful that your sister had been a nurse allowing the two of you to have that brief exchange and she made it known she wasn't ready to give up. That's what helped you to understand thus never having to mention it again. That worked beautifully in your personal situation and I'm glad you had that moment with her.
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Nothing wrong with being brought to tears by the thought of a parent's death. Cry it out if you need to. Better than bottling emotions up.
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Dear "Ralphneedshelp,"

I agree with many of the different aspects that every one who has commented up to this point has said.

There is nothing easy about broaching the subject and in a way I don't know if you necessarily should. I know with my mom on hospice right now, I have not brought it up. The Chaplain has not told me to do/say anything of the sort either.

I truly believe, that we ourselves do not choose when we die. When our time is up, it's up. No one can stop it or prevent it from happening. It is out of our hands and control. When one sees it like that, it frees your mind up from trying to figure out how to have those types of unsettling conversations and allows you to focus on being and talking with your loved one as things are in the moment. If something needs to be said on your part, say it. If she needs to hear something from you, say it so there are no regrets later on. I feel like letting things take their natural course eliminates the extra anxiety and stress that one puts on themselves. It goes along with living in the moment and enjoying what can be enjoyed at the time or dealing with a specific caregiving situation. If she were the one that wanted to talk about it, then that would be a whole different situation and I would listen to her concerns.

Now what I'm not talking about are the situations where someone has been recently diagnosed with a terminal illness. In that case it's important to talk about future plans for everyone involved and then implementing those plans.

As "ZippyZee" said - if you need to cry it out, do so. I look at crying as a healthy response to what is going on inside of us - a type of purging as you will. I know when I've had a good cry, I feel better and a sense of calmness follows. Some of it would be the "anticipatory grief" we can go through prior to our loved one actually dying.

All that being said, try to see how things flow naturally and don't worry about the rest - you probably already have enough to worry about as it is.

May God give you some peace and comfort in these moments and continue to take care of mom and yourself.
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Dying is hard work. I always said that if someone told me it was okay to let go now I would be pissed off! What I would want to hear are positive stories from the past and present, knowing that things are being taken care of, and things are in order. I would want to know my children and grandchildren are happy and doing what they love. I like things clean and orderly so that would be important too. I would want to be forgiven for any shortcomings and I would want to know I made a positive impact on peoples lives. I would want to hear I was loved. Then I would be able to let go knowing my family will be okay. So think about who your mother was and what brought her comfort and have that conversation. You can also take small actions like putting flowers in her room, playing her favorite music, and holding her hand. Think of things she might appreciate.
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NobodyGetsIt Oct 2020
"Mepowers,"-

Nicely said -

When my dad had fast advancing Stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer, I brought hospice in. We had them set up the hospital bed in the room where he spent all his years playing the organ and his keyboard. I then brought my CD player along with all my soft, instrumental CD's and had them playing in the background. He was no longer talking but the day before he died, I sat and read to him and then the next day, I sat alone with him beside his bed and sang some hymns preparing him for his new eternal home to come. I think that turned out to be the best thing for both of us!

He had his say the week prior by telling my mom, myself and my husband that he wasn't afraid to die and that was the end of that conversation.

He died with very minimal pain as well as peacefully. I was so grateful for that in spite of the terrible grief and shock having experienced death for the first time.
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This situation is so intensely personal. I had this problem with my mother in law. (She was more like a mom to me than my mother in law.)

I called my mother in law ‘mom.’ She told me when I became engaged to her son not to remain formal.

She insisted that I call her by her first name or ‘mom’ if I desired. It was easy for me to call her mom. She was a lovely woman.

We were extremely close, even closer than I was to my own mom. She tried to prepare me for her death.

She had non Hodgkin’s lymphoma that had gone into remission for five years.

When mom’s cancer returned returned she sought treatment at M. D. Anderson but there wasn’t any chance of her beating it.

She was ready to go. She told me all of the things in her life that she had been grateful for.

I didn’t realize that it was the end. Looking back I see now that I was in complete denial.

Mom was really concerned about me because I kept telling her to fight and that she would beat it again.

Mom was wise enough to see that I wasn’t hearing her message to me. Plus, she was exhausted. She had fought as hard as she could.

During a hospital visit her oncologist said to me very matter of factly, “Let’s go take a walk.” I told her, “Sure.”

We walked down a long hospital corridor and she told me that mom was concerned about me. I said, “Well, she doesn’t have to be. She’s going to beat this cancer again and I am praying for a miracle because I can’t lose her.”

This incredible oncologist said to me, “Go ahead and pray for your miracle but as her doctor I am telling you that she is dying and you are being very selfish. She told me that she wants you to accept her death and she asked me to speak to you. Please go into your mother in law’s room and tell her that you will accept her death and be fine.”

As soon as I heard the doctor call me selfish I snapped out of my denial. Some people may have been offended with this doctor. She’s a ‘no nonsense’ woman! I was grateful that she spoke to me honestly but with compassion.

I followed the doctor’s orders. Mom died not long afterwards. Mom died at 68, just a few years older than I am now.

I felt that she left this world too early but I am so grateful for the 15 plus years that I had her as a mother in law.

I became grateful that she was no longer suffering. She was ready to die. Some people are scared. She wasn’t the least bit frightened by death.

My father in law couldn’t handle her suffering and he caused a lot of anxiety for everyone.

My mother in law was the best! She was treated horribly by her mom and mother in law and promised me that she would never hurt me.

She kept her word! She broke cycles of abuse. I adored her! May she Rest In Peace. She will live in my heart forever.

Your feelings are normal. We go through a range of different emotions. It’s hard to cope. I wish peace for you and your mom.
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Sendhelp Oct 2020
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Talk about what you can talk about. Maybe just the good memories of things you've done together. How important she is to you. That you love her. Just anything you can talk about.

If she can still speak, take your lead from her. Answer questions she has and perhaps those answers will tell her you'll be okay. I don't think there is an easy way to say goodbye.
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I am so sorry that your mom - and you - are in this situation. Thinking or expressing a loved one leaving is so very hard because you experience the sorrow of loss. I can understand that emotionally you don't want your mom to go away.

That being said, practice at anything makes it easier. Try practicing in different methods as a dress rehearsal to "the talk." Write notes about what you want to say. Take time in the shower (when nobody can hear you) and practice saying good bye. Take time alone to pray and ask God for strength and peace. Read portions of the Bible that deal with death and the afterlife. In a couple of days, you should find the poise you need to talk to mom and give her permission to depart when she is ready.

As an RN, I have been at many bedsides where a person passed from life. Most people hold on until they feel their life tasks are complete: visits from family and friends completed, given permission to leave, any life tasks left will be completed by others, and last rites for those who desire them. Some people leave with everybody in attendance. Others choose to slip away when they have privacy. Know that giving your mom permission to leave, eases her concerns at the end of her life.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
I believe this too. My friend was continually at her mom’s bedside. The nurse convinced her to go home and rest. No sooner did she get home when they called her and said that her mom died. She believes and I do too, that her mom did not want to die in front of her.
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Spending time with my precious dad when he was in Hospice Care and dying were some of the sweetest and most tender moments in my life.

I'd spell mother off a few days a week, so she could get out and away from FT caregiving.

Daddy and I would watch cartoons, or visit, as he desired. A lot of time he just wanted me to sing to him. It was Christmastime and so I had a really big repertoire of songs---I'd sing and sing and he loved it. I cried a LOT. And that's OK. By the time he left us, we had all told him all we had to say to him and one of those things was that we were going to be OK. He could go. The night he died, we all gathered in his room and each of us, who chose to, offered a prayer. Most of us prayed for a gentle good-night for him.

He didn't want to die at the 'holidays' and he didn't. 12:45 am on New Year's Day. One of the sweetest things I've ever been a part of.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
Mid,

You have the most beautiful heart. The world needs more people like you. It would certainly be a better place.
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My Husband refused to talk about death. Even when I met hem when I was in my mid 20's I would tell him... "when I die you can either plant me in the garden or put me in a plastic bag and put me at the curb on Thursday" and he would get upset and say he did not want to talk about it. I would bring up the subject of getting a Will done and that was the response I would get. When he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's he refused to talk about that either.
Did your mom talk about death or prolonged illness when she was healthy? Did she plan for her death?
It is difficult to start a conversation that may have been "taboo" in the past.
The best way is to just dive into the deep end of the pool and go for it.
Maybe start with the Chaplains suggestion that telling her that you love her and you are going to miss her but you are going to be alright. You can ask her if she would like to plan her funeral.
What she wants to wear, what songs, what passages if any she wants read.
Use this time to cry.
Crying is good, it is a release (you look like crap after a good cry but it is well worth it) The fix is a pint of ice cream eaten from the container with a big spoon
Use this time to hold her hand. Crawl into bed with her if you want. The sense of touch is so important and she needs that as do you.
To not want someone that is in pain or someone that has no quality of life to "hang on", to not die is selfish on our part. I know that my Husband would not have wanted to live any longer in the shell that he had become. He was no longer the smiling, funny, loving man with laughing blue eyes I had married 32 years previously he was empty.
I THOUGHT I was prepared, I thought I was ready but the morning he died I felt as if someone had ripped the heart out of my chest and stomped on it. (still feels that way sometimes and it will be 4 years in 12 days)
You will get through this.
This is important for your mom as much as it is for you.
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
I understand exactly what you are saying. Thank you for these words. I felt the same way when my husband passed from pancreatic cancer. Like an empty shell just waiting to crack....but the years get a little easier and yes i will always miss him....he was my soulmate....
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Perhaps say something like "I'm so happy we are together right now. I'm so happy and thankful that you are my mother. And I know we will all be together again after we pass on to life everlasting. This isn't easy for me to say mom but I want you to know that I will be OK if you are ready to move on to the next life. I will be sad and certainly miss you but I will always remember you and will look forward to seeing you again when that day comes. For now, you do what you need to do and I will be here by your side. I love you now and always." Hugs to you and mom. It's not an easy time.
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NobodyGetsIt Oct 2020
Dear "renoir,"

That is beautiful beyond any other words I can say!
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This is a subject we are clumsy at because we have no practice and it is really something we do not want to talk about. I worked in hospice and found there are many ways to have these conversations - from how to broach the subject, to what to say and how to handle push back. I wrote a book that is a 2020 Eric Hoffer award finalist called 'Dying Well Prepared: Conversations and Choices'. It is available at Amazon but you can probably get it from your local library. It has examples and suggested language you can use that is very helpful.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
Thanks for sharing this information.
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Check out Griefshare.org
plus YouTube videos
I went after my mother died.
Wish I had known some of the subjects ahead of her death. I would have coped better afterwards.
You don’t have to go to all of the meetings. More the better but go when you can.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
Thanks for sharing this info.
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Imho, you could recite bible verses to calm her if you're so inclined. This is the only thing that made my mother stop crying towards the end. Prayers sent.
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I think the death conversation should be had before our loved ones are even sick. Having it when you are at death's door is a little late IMO. Not to get all religious here but having a relationship with God during your young, healthy years goes a long way towards not being petrified at the end of your life.

As for when to have the good bye conversation, look for a moment when your loved one is feeling relaxed. Ease into it. If they don't seem open to talking don't force it. Pray together if they are willing.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
Gershun,

Having a spiritual life is comforting for most.

I know a woman who just turned 80 this month.

She has enormous love for God, but she tells me that she is afraid to die.

It’s very personal to each individual.

When I asked her what she was afraid of. She said, “What if I don’t make it to heaven?”

I told her that God’s mercy and forgiveness was bigger than any of her sins but my words did not comfort her.

She is terrified to die. It’s sad.
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No one knows how much time we have on this earth. I think dealing with a sudden death is a lot more difficult than knowing that someone is dying.

No doubt, each situation is difficult but not expecting death and being told someone died suddenly in an accident, heart attack, or especially suicide is shocking for us.

We feel cheated with a sudden death that we didn’t have the chance to say goodbye.
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well, yes, avoid that subject. She, knows, don't need to point it out to her.
Find a magazine.. Readers Digest has good fun SHORT STORIES. small readings, jokes,and things to ponder. a bit lighter than:;; GO TO THE LIGHT

Womens day magazine has small stories too, and a lil section of Angels in our lives.

so, if you want to spend some time.. just read out loud to her. a little.. It can be anything you or she likes subject wise.

Make it happier. play music, dance holding hands if she cannot walk.. hold her hands and "dance". The more people you can gt to join in, the happier it will be.

send her in the right direction on a happy note.. no need to tell her goodbye every single time.. Just say, goodnight.. I will see you tomorrow with a fun movie to watch, music to listen to, or stories to read.. happy... hopefully :)
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so, know that you expressed your goodbyes.. It's not the end... get family members to join you. If she can still eat...bring her favorite treats. If she cannot chew, blend it, and flavor will be there.
make these times happy.
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If she has dementia, does she need to know? Would she remember? Would she even understand? Maybe she is tired of life and wants to go. I don't think there is any easy way. So, you cry. It is OK, remember, even Jesus wept. If I am terminal, I want to know. I have a girlfriend who did not want to know she is terminal. She has finally had to accept the truth because there is literally nothing more they can do for her.

I will share with you a couple of my experiences.

My Dad died in 1974 when he was 61. He had Mesothelioma. The doctors flat out lied about his condition. Nothing legal was taken care of because he thought he was going to live. To make a long story short, his family doctor realized that no one had told him. The cancer doctors wouldn't return her calls. So, she was going to tell him. I told her I could do it. On Friday night we sat on the edge of the bed and I told him. He said he wanted to keep fighting (he was 61 years old). I said OK, on Monday we got a lot of legal things taken care of. On Tuesday he put in his retirement papers with the union. This enabled Mom to get a pension. Wednesday I took him to spend a few days with my brother. By the next Wednesday, he couldn't sign his name. That is how close it was. If he hadn't retired, mom wouldn't have had a pension. I cringe on how close it was. If it hadn't been for Dr. Fostvedt my mom would have been up the creek without a paddle. I would not wish this death on anyone. I walked that path again 4 years ago with my good friend from work who was 57.

My mother was almost 95 when she was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer. The doctor gave her 2 weeks to 2 months. We brought her home with us and hospice came in. At the end of 2 weeks. She was walking down the hall with a walker and she said. "WELL, DAMMIT, IT HAS BEEN TWO WEEKS AND I AM STILL HERE". I reminded her that the doc said it could be 2 months. She repeated the above sentence. She lasted about another week. She went peaceful, for a cancer that is supposed to be terrible painful, she had no pain. She didn't even need an aspirin.

My friend that died with Mesothelioma, hung on until he knew his parents had to leave. He told me he did not want them there because he was afraid they would move in with his wife. They day they said they had to leave, he passed.

I want to give you HUGS and HUGS. I am 86 and had so many loved ones die. My Aunt, who was 91, thanked me for coming to help my cousin. I had to out in the hall and cry with that one.
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I agree with AlvaDeer that letting your loved one know they are loved and valued is comfort. Generally people don't get to choose their time to pass. Knowing one is valued gives peace. The only reason in my family to discuss death is final wishes and disposition. My mother's wishes have actually changed drastically in the past few years. I missed my window of opportunity with my dad because he no longer understands what we are talking about.
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