Can changes my Dad made to his estate plan be invalidated if it's proven he was mentally ill?

Katgurl58: Yes, my sister died about 25 years ago. There were only 2 kids in my family of origin. So, when she died, I was the only surviving "child". And, when my mother passed away, I was my father's only surviving decedent. I ended up having to sever my relationship with him, on the advice of my attorney, because his lies about me and betrayal caused me some legal problems. It's been 4 years since my father passed away and I've moved on. While I can't forgive him for his lying and betrayal and the mental abuse and other things that he did to my mom, sister, and me throughout our lives, I have moved on with my life and don't think about him very often anymore. Yes, I still hate him and doubt that those feelings will ever change. But, those feelings are way in the background and something I no longer focus on because my father isn't worth my mental energy to waste on these feelings. He was who he was and chose to do the things he did and I accept that he was a very toxic person that I no longer wanted in my life after he betrayed me around the time of my mother's death in 2012. I have a very busy and full life with people whom I love and people who care about me and don't engage in mental abuse or betrayal. I'm thankful for the life I have and the things I'm able to do and, in the year after his death, decided that he isn't worth my wasting my mental energy, my life, and my time being pissed off at. Life is too short to waste on toxic people. I'm in a much better place mentally now than I was when I posted 3 years ago. Through therapy and family dynamics class, I've come to understand toxicity, mental abuse, my role in my family, healthy boundaries, and healthy attachments. My biggest regret is that I didn't understand these things earlier because I would have approached things differently and saved myself a lot of heart ache. But, lessons learned that I can apply to my relationships with others.

The hatred you feel for your dad is not healthy. Walk away from this And you said there was a sister. But you said you were the only surviving family member. Did your sister die

Momscaretaker1: My father was mentally ill (long-standing mental illness dating back to his younger years) and was under psychiatric treatment, and he was also showing some signs of dementia. But, because he was able to answer simple questions such as his name, the date, etc, with the standards of testimentary capacity being so low, his attorney let him make the changes without question. If he had been as sharp as a tack and not mentally ill, the only question an attorney might have is why, all of a sudden at the age of 90 or 91, would someone change their will and write out their only surviving descendant (ie, me). But, my father died almost 4 years ago, I was able to get a number of tangible items and some financial things that were my mom's and part of her estate. I was left her part of my parents' estate, but my father, his trustee, his financial adviser, and his CPA tried to pull some hanky-panky with the estate and my attorney quickly put the kabosh on after it was discovered that my father and his financial had invaded the principal of my mother's trust (which the trust clearly stated could not happen), and had breached his fiduciary responsibility to both my mother and me. I'm happy with what I got and now am trying to just forget about my father and that he was ever in my life, and have successfully moved on from his narcissism with the help of a therapist.

Since when should a person reaching 90 years of age cause concern about there mental stability? My mother is 92 and is sharp as a tack! Her group of friends are 90 and older, the oldest being 104. They all live in their own homes and take care of their own business.

The law does not call for a perfectly balanced mind. Just because a person making a will was moved by “frivolous, mean or even bad motives” will not make a will invalid. A person is entitled to disinherit his children for reasons of spite without such wishes being challenged on the grounds of mental capacity. This is obviously subject to the individual having “sound mind, memory and understanding” at the time the will was made. The question as to whether a person has the relevant mental capacity is a factual question which is often determined by medical evidence. However, the evidence of close friends and family is also relevant and a person can be found to be lacking mental capacity based upon their evidence alone.

When contesting a will, problems arise with issues concerning mental capacity where a disease affects the mind over a period of time, e.g. Alzheimer’s. In such patients it is often the case that on some days they understand matters and on others their memory is lacking. To succeed with contesting a will, it must be shown at the time the will was executed, the testator did not have the capacity to make a wi

I hadn't noticed, Shane, but now you mention it: " The question remains whether a judge will allow my self-educated analysis of my father's personality disorder despite the conflict of interest."

Hm. That is a poser, I must say. I wonder what the judge will decide?

Those questions you have proposed an attorney ask a person that comes in to change their will, dadisNPD, have a snowball’s chance in hell of being added to a mini competency exam.

First of all they are quite intrusive. No attorney has the right to ask those questions of anyone. And if the attorney did what would he do with the responses?  Tell the individual he can’t proceed? What basis would any attorney have to deny that individual to make the changes he wants? None, no right whatsoever.

People have a right to manage their own financial affairs. NPD is a personality disorder, yes. But again, wasn’t it your father’s right to do with his money as he chooses?

NPD or whatever, it is what it is. NPD is not a psychosis. NPD does not equal incompetency. I understand the difficulty it may present in dealing with a NPD’s behaviors, but it’s not for you to judge or determine free will by your dad vs how NPD “May have” affected his decision to refuse financial pay out to a family member or anyone for that matter. Neither is it the responsibility nor scope of practice in law to do so.

You look at things scientifically, you say, yet you are asking people with no formal psychological training to ask questions they have no right to ask and then determine if that person or even legally deny that person (in this case, your father) to make changes in his financial planning.
Nothing scientific about that.

I hope you get what you are looking for & you may very well be entitled to. $1500 a month is a nice stipend. I’m assuming with your 4 degrees you have a career of your own thus the $1500 plus your salary is better than nothing.

Your expectation of “experts” in the field of NPD writing you a letter stating your father’s behavior “may” be a factor is unrealistic. An expert would review all material available to them prior to writing such a letter, & that’s why they denied your request. 

I wish you and your family well. Asia doesn’t have the best atmosphere for asthmatics as you may know. You might want to consider moving to an area with less asthmatic triggers if you are making so many trips to the ER. Inhalers are expensive here in the US and not expected to decrease in price. I hope your health improves as well.

My out of state brother has driven our 92 yr old Dad to a local bank X 3 in past 5 years to have 3 different "DIY" wills notarized that my brother printed from the internet...he convinced our dad that he did not have enuf $$ in his estate to warrant paying for an estate lawyer to draw up a proper will....I was present first time unwillingly,preferred to use a legal professional,but that was not going to happen...next 2 times was done without my knowledge,second time he had dad change executor from me to himself,due to me asking for him to help me out with dad's confusions and living arrangemts.,not paying bills,etc.... but did not tell me that was his solution...this time (last week) he took him to bank third time with another DIY will that he had "tweaked" to ensure that if he (my brother) were to suddenly die prior to dad,that I would not "get everything" leaving my sis-in-law with none of dad's assets(meaning my brother's half)....she has not been to Ohio to visit him for YEARS,last time was many yrs ago for my Mom's funeral.....I'm so disgusted,so sickened by their behavior....they moved 1300 miles away to NM over 20 years ago....I was the one that lived half hour away from parents.....

DigitalBanker: Thanks for your response. My attorney and I believed all along that there was exploitation and someone putting my father up to the change, either his financial adviser or his CPA, one of whom was either present at the meeting with his estate attorney or drove him to the meeting. But, it could never be proven and to do so would have resulted in rather high attorney fees and having the whole thing drag out for quite awhile. Because of my father's mental illness (Narcissistic Personality Disorder), I needed to put this stuff behind me for the sake of my mental health and to heal from his years of mental abuse, lying, betrayal, and manipulation . My father has been gone for 3 1/2 years (Thank God!!! and good riddance!!!) and his estate was settled about 2 or 2 1/2 years ago. After we found that he/his financial adviser had invaded the principal of the trust, we informed my father's trustee's lawyer that there had been a breach of fiduciary responsibility on both his and his financial adviser's parts, and that I was seriously considering suing the estate, the financial adviser, and my father's trustee. The trustee's attorney quickly backpedaled and dropped the demand for collection of accrued income, which was likely bogus all along, but insisted that I wasn't entitled to any of the tangibles. My attorney informed him that given that the tangibles were both of my parents' property and that I had inherited my mother's half of the estate, half of those tangibles were rightfully mine. I eventually got several of the tangibles I had demanded as being rightfully mine, but there was alot of lying, hiding things, and alot of hanky-panky going on from all sides, in addition to the exploitation of my father by the people previously mentioned. And, all phone calls my attorney made to my father's estate attorney went unanswered. This attorney apparently made no effort to vet my father's mental status and so allowed him to change his estate at the age of 91, without questioning why a man of this advanced age would suddenly change his long-standing estate plan. In addition to getting several of the tangible items I had demanded, I also didn't have to pay the alleged accrued income to my father's estate because of the breach of fiduciary responsibility. The closure of my father's estate dragged on as we investigated stuff, but without being able to prove the exploitation, not knowing who had accompanied or driven my father to the meeting with his estate attorney (since the estate attorney never returned my attorney's phone calls), and given that I had gotten several of the tangibles I had wanted, my attorney advised settling, both so my attorney's fees wouldn't go sky high and also so that I could heal and move forward from the situation that had resulted in this estate situation. My father was a monster and used me as a scapegoat, resulting in my being barred by an assistant Arizona attorney general in Tucson, AZ, where my parents lived, from being at my mother's deathbed-- all on the basis of lies my father told the AZ legal system about me (and, they refused to listen to my side of the story and falsely threatened me with criminal prosecution). So, it was imperative for me to heal mentally and to not have this estate stuff drag out longer than necessary. So, having gotten the tangibles I wanted and not having to pay the alleged accrued income, I finally decided to settle, 2 or 2 1/2 years ago with what I had gotten. My father's estate was subsequently settled and closed. So, it's too late to try to overturn the changes he made at age 91. And yes, I could have reported his financial adviser and his estate attorney, but that would have only prolonged things and further slowed my healing from my SOB father.

If it's caught in time and you know who to contact to overturn the recent changes, then yes it can be invalidated as long as this person was not competent to make those changes. It sounds to me like maybe someone putting them up to it because they may actually be coercing him to make the changes

Hi rr4terps:
Reading your description of your long nightmare, especially the part with your NF and the authorities, I see all Narcs are pretty good at playing to an audience (as we see in the news even the last couple days). Sometime, in his last couple of years, my father apparently complained that I was overseas here in Asia "adopting some of their ways of thinking." Well, that was a lie and a calculated statement to get PITY from his bible-thumping audience. I have equally strong criticisms for the modern forms of the primary religious influence both here and back there.
He also LIED to them when he said he was ostensibly "giving" them the 90K "because Tim would be worth more alive on his monthly stipend than if he took that much back there with him." Oh, yeah, great, "give" that much money that could save my life in the event of a heart attack or stroke so that my not having that much would keep me from being killed here in Asia. Sounds like every other Colombo movie of the week. (I would not bring all that here anyway; keeping it in US dollars makes more sense in the event of a major currency devaluation here.)
Something I found relevant to YOUR original question here and mine: Sam Vaknin, "The grandiosity hangover and the grandiosity gap are the two major vulnerabilities of the narcissist. By exploiting them, the narcissist can be effortlessly manipulated. This is especially true when the narcissist is confronted with authority, finds himself in an inferior position, or when his narcissistic supply is deficient or uncertain."
That middle sentence (ignoring the dangling modifier): "effortlessly manipulated" and "undue influence" seem to fit like jigsaw pieces. The question remains whether a judge will allow my self-educated analysis of my father's personality disorder despite the conflict of interest. "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Well, your Honor, I AM the ONLY ONE who knows the whole truth! Meanwhile, that second cousin of my father's is saying he remembers hanging around with my father during summer breaks from school. Well, when L was six years old, my father was 24 and about to finish college, after which he got married and moved clear across the country to work for Uncle Sam.
Stay tuned...

Hi dadwasNPD: I'm still out here. It sounds like you're making nice progress with your case and that your attorney was able to show undue influence by the cousins on your father. Hopefully, the outcome will be that the changes your father made to write you out of the 90K were invalid and the money will go to you and none of the cousins. They sure sound underhanded. And, given that you live a distance from where they and your dad did, it was easy for them to pull this crap. With my father, it was similar in that I was a distance away, and I believe that his attorney didn't do much of a test of testimentary capacity with him. She stated that she remembered him from 5 years previous. Well, a person's mental capacity can change in that time, which is what happened with my father. But, she overlooked it, allowed him to blindside her, and never even questioned why a 90 year old man would suddenly change his will and write out his only surviving decedent (me) from his will. No questions asked. My father, as is common with NPDs, was a very, very good liar and was able to hide his severe mental illness from many people. But, if people spent enough time with him, which his attorney didn't, they would have seen that he wasn't as competent and mentally stable as he portrayed himself to be. Also, his financial advisor was very much in collusion in this, possibly even with the estate attorney whom she had advised my father to hire to make changes to my parents' estate in 2005, although we weren't able to prove that she actually accompanied him to the appointment with his estate attorney to write me out of his part of the estate. But, since my father couldn't remember the attorney's name and it was the financial advisor who had initially given my father the attorney's name in around 2004 or 2005, I would strongly suspect that my father contacted this financial advisor to get the attorney's name. He left all of my parents' tangible items to the financial advisor. And, even as she was telling me that she felt that I should get all of these tangibles, being the only remaining survivor of my family of origin, and that she would help me to get all of those tangibles, she was distributing them to everyone else and telling me she didn't know anything and would have to check with my father's trustee. This was a lie because a beneficiary, once the will reveals them as a beneficiary, owns the property and can distribute it as they please. There was a clear conflict of interest. I got some of the tangibles, but it was all lies on the financial advisor's and trustee's parts. My attorney dug into it, but told me that it probably wasn't worth the investment in her services to go after every single bit of it. It would have gotten very costly. So, I was able to get the items I wanted, although there were a few other things I would have liked to have. At this point, my father has been gone almost 3 1/2 years and the estate has been closed. But, if I had wanted to, I could have reported his financial advisor for being too involved, probably conflict of interest, financial exploitation, and having driven the invasion of the principle of my parents' estate. I have enough evidence to show that the financial advisor acted irresponsibly, and could report her to the agencies that oversee financial advisors. I assume that my father probably left his part of the estate (the money part) to this financial advisor, as well as my parents' tangibles, which is a very clear conflict of interest. But, I'm not going to pursue it. This happened in Tucson, AZ. The financial advisor works for RBC (stay away from that company for sure) and the Tucson police elder abuse detective and an assistant attorney general in Tucson, investigating alleged abuse on my demented mother (a judge threw that case out when it was shown that the people who reported this were lying), acted only in their self-interests to win a case. Both of them lied to me, and the assistant atty general blatantly abused her authority by threatening me with criminal prosecution on the basis of my father's lies about me and refused to listen to my side of the story. These legal authorities' MO and goal became abundantly clear to the judge at a hearing and he got angry and threw out the entire case when there was plenty of proof of lies. 8 mos after my father had lied about me to the Tucson AZ legal authorities when they were investigating the alleged abuse on my demented mother, he changed his tune and told the truth about the alleged abuser and me not doing anything wrong. The assistant atty general was relentless in trying to coerce my father into saying I had meddled and that my mother's alleged abuser had financially exploited him-- all lies that were proven to be just that and which the judge recognized. My father used me as his scapegoat because he was afraid to show that he wasn't competent to take care of my mother and wasn't competent in his long-term financial planning, although he was fine with the day-to-day financial stuff (balancing his checkbook, for ex). And, as was so common for him to do with many other people he screwed over the years, he played the part of the victim through his pathological lying and garnered pity from the idiot Tucson police elder abuse detective and the idiot Arizona assistant atty general. The two people who werefinancially exploiting him were his CPA (massively overcharging my father, even by his financial advisor's report to me) and the financial advisor, herself. But, as far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this, very happy that my father is gone, and glad for what I did get that was my mother's. I want nothing to remind me of my father. Like many NPDs, he was a pathological liar, able to cover/hide his mental illness and always good at garnering pity for himself and portraying himself as the victim and convincing people that this was the case, when it was he who was victimizing people (several of his associates came forward and told me about his victimizing people in Tucson over many years). One day, perhaps these criminals who exploited both of my parents and the Tuscon police elder abuse detective and the assistant atty general in Tucson who exploited my parents in order to further their own careers will be caught and brought to justice. But, I've decided to move on with my life and be glad that I was able to inherit my mother's portion of the estate and to get several tangible items that I wanted. I hope that you, too, will be successful in your quest to get the 90K that sounds like it's rightfully yours. Please keep me posted.

rr4terps! Are you still out there?
Cousins have been deposed. The last doctor also, who said my father was not rousable two days before the 90K check and was in rapid decline. As for the signature card change, did I mention there's a hospital release form where the cousin signed my father out for four hours and went to the bank? Also, the records for that hospital show my father was put on Ambien over a month before he WAS CHECKED OUT of the hospital and taken to the bank when my name was removed from accounts.
End of discovery period is this next week. We'll see what happens next...

in addition to everything else mentioned here, check your state laws because they most likely differ. People who should not let incompetent people make changes sometimes do and they're accountable for allowing it. Even insurance companies aren't supposed to allow changes to life insurance policies to change beneficiaries when the person is not competent but unfortunately this can still happen anyway. Sad but true it does happen.  i'm dealing with something in Ohio right now and trying to get to the bottom of things for starters to at least get some information before any legal action is taken because it's highly suspected him on multiple individuals that my dad may have not been competent when he made some changes and he may have been taken advantage of during the last few weeks of his life when he was just about to die. If someone's in competent then they can't make competent decisions plain and simple

If the person changing the document was incompetent, then it was negligence on the part of the party allowing it and it can be undone, but only if the person doing it was definitely incompetent. It can also be undone if there was a undue influence on that person changing the document. Sometimes vultures will prey on the incompetency of their target and use it to their advantage, so be very careful. Many inheritances have been stolen from rightful heirs, so be very wary

In light of everything described here, it's probably a good idea to pass on your heirlooms to the living heirs while you're still living. That way, your wishes will be honored, and family heirlooms stay in the family

Hi dadwasNPD,
Reading your part2 post, sounds like a bad situation with your wife and MIL. Just what you needed in addition to the stuff with your dad. I'm not sure I see how your dad's original note could be interpreted as Narc discard, unless there are other things in the letter that point to NPD type stuff. Maybe I'm missing something here. His saying that you were to get nothing from him could be interpreted as simply that he decided not to leave you anything and he could do with his money what he wanted and leave his money to whomever he wanted. I'm not sure that statement of you getting nothing represents or proves that NPD poisoned his affections unless there are other things in the letter pointing in that direction. And remember that the standard for testimentary capacity is quite low. As long as your dad could correctly answer some simple questions-- his name, the date, your name, his birthdate, who the US president was, to name a few examples-- his attorney would have concluded that he was mentally competent to make the choice to take you out of his will. That's what my father did. Yes, he was mentally ill and NPD poisoned his affections, but testimentary capacity doesn't check for that stuff. There would have to be a note or some sort of record from a Psychiatrist showing that your dad had NPD that clouded his judgement. But, I doubt that an estate attorney would go to that length to get that info. An estate atty just wants to take the easiest route, do the least amount of testing, and collect their money.

part 2: The Narcs, it seems, are coming out of the woodwork. Have been wondering about my mrs here for over a year; thought she was bi-polar, but after a nagasaki style narcissistic rage today, am certain she too in a Narc/fmr golden child. That's the mother-daughter dynamic here, almost a cross-generational bonding, but MIL is/has always been an emotional blackmailer and psychological terrorist since I've known here (10 yrs).
One other little thing relevant to your orig question on this thread: In my 1st mtg with the trust, the trustee cpa/atty read to me from a letter that said originally I was to get NOTHING from Dad.
It dawned on me the other day that that can actually be interpreted by a true expert at Narc DISCARD, and to me thus PROOF of NPD poisoning his affections and perverting his sense of right (capacity) AT THE TIME the trust was drafted. how to use this now...???

Hello rr4terps,
Still waiting on the trust to file the suit. The time is running out. Still haven't heard back from any attys I contacted in GA about filing a motion for me to intervene and join the suit when it does get filed. And now it looks like the whole country will find out what it's like to deal with a true Narc...

rr4terps: Dad told me those stories himself many times. I don't remember when I started laughing inwardly about them, probably when I was in college and learned to sense BS better. I remember also the last time I saw him (2 1/2 yrs before he died) pointedly saying to him "Y'know, Dad, some people don't like you." And he kind of nervously, mockingly laughed and muttered: "Ha! Someone does like Roy N!" as if it were a preposterous idea. About 14 years ago, when we picked me up a passport application at the post office, he suggested we go back and he use his old manual typewriter to fill it out instead of filling it in by hand: "Someday the person who checks your application might remember the neatness of your application and do you a favor." Can you say Grandiose Fantasy?
I too look at DT every day on the news and say: He's projecting! He's triangulating! He's seeking supply! The way this year has been, the Grand Ol' Party probably WISHES they could have my "Uncle Richard" back again!
I have finished my article for sending around and posting for the legal professionals to hopefully read and ponder the implications of NPD on capacity. Will try to find a way to let you know where to find it online.

dadwasNPD: Interesting story about your father and some parallels with mine in terms o being doted on and put on a pedestal. It gave both your dad and mine the idea that the world revolved around them and that their needs and wants came first before everyone else's. Question is: Did your dad tell you these things about him singing in the church choir at the church Truman attended and him being assigned to drive Eisenhower around? Given an NPD's inflated sense of importance and their pathological lying, whatever they tell you has to be questioned. I've found out things years later that my father had told me since childhood that I've since learned were lies. And, on the political front here in the US: Watching Donald Trump is like watching my father all over again. In fact, I've been able to predict the majority of Trump's behavior and actions, including at the 3 debates. And, when he stated that millions of people look up to him and love him, I burst out laughing because that's almost the exact line my father used. But, he didn't use the word "millions of people"-- just "everybody looks up to me, loves me, and admires me". Listening to my father say that made me want to puke and so my reaction to Trump's similar statement not only evoked laughter, but the same sense of nausea I had had when my father said those things.

Interesting re: your relationship to RMN. I don't blame you, given what happened during his presidency, for wanting to be related to the watch and accessories company.

One more little thing today, while I wait for the latest in my As The Stomach Turns saga, I don't remember if I shared these before. These are the proposed questions to add in determining capacity. I can very easily see Narcs LYING to every one of these questions... Have a look and a laugh...
1.Can you tell me the reason(s) that you decided to make changes in your will?
2.Why did you decide to divide the estate in this particular fashion?
3.Do you understand how individual A might feel, having been excluded from the will or having been given a significantly less amount than previously expected or promised?
4.Do you understand the economic implications for individual B of this particular distribution in your will?
5.Can you tell me about the important relationships in your family and others close to you?
6.Can you describe the nature of any family or personal disputes or tensions that may have influenced your distribution of assets?

Interesting story about your father.
My father was the only child of a couple that divorced before WWII. After his father was kicked out for philandering, his mother, her sisters, and his older female cousins all doted on him. Like your uncle said: The First Coming.
After high school, Dad enlisted and did basic training near Wash, DC. He said the reason his unit was sent to the safety of Germany instead of the hell of Korea was because Truman found out Dad was singing in a church choir where Harry attended one Sunday. Further, while in Germany, Dad was assigned to drive Gen. Eisenhower around on a post inspection. THAT got him into a university AND a federal gov't job afterward. Oh, and we are distantly (very distantly) related to another president, RMN; we even have the same last name though I wish we were related to the watch and accessories company!

Hi rr4terps,
Good to hear from you. The interest would be what the cousins would have to pay since the date of the mysterious 90K check 4 yrs ago this December. The interest would wind up going wherever the money goes. I'm waiting to see if the cousins are dumb enough to think they can win in court or, if they lose, have to pay the 90K, interests, and all the legal fees up to this point. That would basically be a negative in name only, since they'd never be able to do that. Hence, my concern the trust and the cousins may do an end run without letting me in on it. The nitwit atty for the trust wrote in her latest two-sentence letter to my atty to remind of the "No further payments out of principal to Tim." The draft of the suit also ignored that my name was removed from the accounts the VERY NEXT DAY after my last phone call from over here to him when I was in the most desperate financial situation of my life: no money for food or meds for asthma. What gets me is when Dad died there was a small CD with my and his names on it at the same bank. So... if removal of my name from the account that the 90K was in is questionable, why should the ultimate ownership of that money be so damned hard to figure out? Oh, and we have a copy of the hospital record that shows he WAS CHECKED OUT of the hospital on the day of the bank visit BY THE SECOND COUSINS although, with his NPD and sadism, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the old man's idea to do that. Still, what does it say about his state of mind to go remove my name from the acct and while at the bank do nothing to wire me some money to buy life-saving meds and food for my family?

Hi dadwasNPD,
Sounds like a mess. Where does interest from the principal come into play in this? I sure hope you get this straightened out. If the cousins ignore the note from your attorney, does it default that you could automatically get the 90K? Or, could your attorney send the cousins a collection affadavit?

My father was the 4th of 5 kids. But, he was the first child of the 5 kids to be born in this country soon after my grandparents reunited after a 10-year separation. My grandfather had come to the US first to establish himself, leaving my grandmother and their 3 kids in the Ukraine, while he saved up enough money to pay for their passage over. My father was born 9 mos after they reunited. And, between being the first born in this country and a boy, to boot, his parents doted over him, making him the center of the universe. They abdicated their role as parents, giving in to him and letting him know that he could never do any wrong. The world revolved around him and all he had to do was throw a tantrum and he got his way. This was he beginning of his narcissism. But, his older sister told me many years ago that he was born with a dark side and was a disruptive force in the family from the beginning. And, with my grandmother trying to adjust to a new country and a new culture, not knowing English, and then being reunited with a husband she had been separated from for so long, she already had alot of adjustments to make. She didn't have the stamina to put up with my father's BS. So, he got his way. My uncle, my father's youngest sister's husband, who had known my father since they were teenagers, told me that as long as he ever knew my father, he was a narcissist, not caring who he hurt (even his parents and siblings), not caring whose feet he stepped on, always being put on a pedestal-- just as long as he got his way. My uncle has described it as my father being treated as if he was "the first coming".

In terms of the 11/8 election and NPD: I doubt that anything will change even though people have acknowledged that Trump is a narcissist and has NPD.

Anyway, sorry that you're having to go through such hassles and hope that something breaks in your favor.

hello rr4,
A week later, still waiting... The cousins have supposedly rec'd our letter with our terms but seem to be ignoring it. Meanwhile, the trust HAS drafted a suit against the cousins to make them repay the 90K, BUT because of my father's obtuseness with his "no further payments out of principal to (yours truly)," the trust is claiming anything IT recovers will go into the principal. All of which brings me back to square one with trying to get them to give discretionary payouts when I need help at the ER for a heart attack or stroke. The trust will probably still say I'll have to have REDUCED monthly stipend after that. And... more ridiculous, it seems the trust is still protecting the principal such that 1) I am locked into my monthly amount, no more and 2) if I predecease the cousins, they'll get all that protected principal OR if I do happen to outlive them, then my wife and daughter and their greedy, financially reckless and irresponsible culture would get that protected principal of maybe 300K or more. Meanwhile, I might have to pass on an ER trip because what I do have should be there to take care of my wife and child in case I predecease those my father's second cousins...
I keep hoping the craziness of the time remaining before Nov 8 will make someone say: So that's what NPD is like?
By the way, just curious, was your father an only child? Was he doted on too much as a kid? I'm trying to put the puzzle together of my father's early life: parents divorced before he was 7, doted on by his mother, aunts and older female cousins, yet his mother was probably very neglectful and abusive of him too.
Stay tuned... more still to come in this tragi-comic twilight zone I'm living in...

dadwasNPD: Yeah, the hurricane wreaked havoc. Wishing you the best of luck on this and hoping that it turns out the way you're hoping it will.

hi rr4,

The hurricane last week caused a delay in the response to our settlement terms. Maybe something by the end of this week... They might feel a double whammy!

Stay tuned...

Hi dadwasNPD,
I'm glad that you're at the negotiating stage and hope you get most of the 90K.

Re: your 5-page letter to the experts: I've found that the shorter a letter is and the more it highlights the points you want to get across right from the start, the more likely it is to be read. So, if a letter can keep it to one sheet of paper, both sides, in a sort of outline format with the important points that you want to get across as main bullets and just a few supporting points within each bullet, it takes people less time to read and, therefore, makes it more likely to be read. Very likely, the expert really didn't have time to wade through a 5-page letter.

Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed that the negotiations go your way and that you're able to get most, if not all, of the 90K.

Hi rr4,
Good to see you again! That national expert I contacted apparently didn't have an hour to read my five pages and say whether or not he thought all the players in this tragedy SHOULD pay attention to the NPD and how it "poisoned affections" and "perverted sense of right." Regardless, we are at the negotiating stage about the 90K. Those cousins (i.e. lying thieving hypocrites) are soon going to have 10 days to accept that they have to pay back to me and the trust OR go to court. I'll probably get less than the 90K but it'll be substantial.
I'm nearly finished with my longer 10-11 page article/essay to the law professionals about NPD and capacity. Down to writing the last couple paragraphs and will then start emailing it out and posting it, asking all those places to please pass it along too. I believe, as you started this thread, that we can get people to see that NPD DOES affect capacity, "poisons affections" and "perverts sense of right." That's EXACTLY what it does!
So hopefully soon the psych and law people will say: Let's sit down and have a closer look at this!
I'll come back here to try to let you know where to find my article when I post it.
Take care!