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My FIL has had a very rocky few months and he had a visiting nurse that came to his home. At first he was okay with her and then we do not know all that transpired but he was not too happy with her coming around much anymore and was slightly relieved when his care transitioned. He was being seen by another agency and Medicare would not pay for both.
He is now in the hospital but prior to going, he told my husband that she called him wanting to come back over and see him, give him a bath if he needed and he thanked her but told her, "no" and that someone was taking care of that.
She has contacted us twice today and we found out she contacted another helper (not through an agency) of my FIL trying to find out where it is now. The lady not through an agency had a talk with our family and confirmed some basic concerns we had had about this nurse.

We spoke to the lady we trust this evening and it turns out this nurse was found sitting in my FIL's driveway this afternoon as well as going into nursing homes in the area asking if he is there. The lady told us, "this nurse is telling me she is going to track your FIL down and is insistent on seeing him."

We were concerned with some of the care my FIL received, her snappy attitude toward his family, and her insistence of wanting to "stop by" or to continue contact when she was clearly no longer assigned to be his nurse.
We do not want her to know where he is at the time for several reasons and know there is no going over her head to a supervisor because we expressed some concerns in the past and nothing really changed. Also, once she leaves their office, she is able to go anywhere on her own time.
Has anyone had this happen? I could understand if this had been a private individual we never checked out, but this is someone through a reputable agency.
Any suggestions on how to address this situation?

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Joyce,

If this nurse person is not working for you anymore and you have no other caregivers working for you who work through this agency, the agency should not expect you to call them and give you updates. If you have no more use for their services that should be it. They should say something to you like, "Please contact us in the future if you should ever need more help" or something to that effect. There is no reason in hell you should be keeping in touch with this agency EXCEPT to continue to complain about this person. If you no longer use their services you no should no longer be talking to them about your FIL's health.

Don't contact this woman, don't answer her texts or her emails either. She has crossed so far over the line that any contact from you may be some kind of sick pay-off to her. She writes/texts you ______ times, you finally answer out of exasperation, she gets the message that you WILL talk to her if she bugs you enough.

If complaining to the agency has not stopped the behavior then I'll suggest again that you file a police report. I understand you don't want this person to get mad and make things worse but the police may have suggestions for you plus you will have a legal record (police reports, like nursing reports, are legal records that stand up in court) of the behavior. Also, if you fear reprisals then why would you want to put this person on the news under a microscope? And you may think the situation is titillating enough for an investigative reporter but a reporter may not. This is a domestic situation and I don't have much faith that a reporter is going to get involved except to ask you, "Why haven't you contacted the police?"

You've got a boatload of great suggestions here, lots to choose from. We don't want you going through this so the wagons are circling but it's time to take more action if this person is still coming around. I don't even know you and I get angry just thinking about the position you're in! If you do nothing else, document, document, document every little single thing. And keep us posted.

xoxo
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Hi joycews,
UGH-so sorry to hear you still have that woman bothering you! Have you checked any sites like BBB or Angie's List or Rip Off Report to see if anyone else had problems with this agency and maybe even this person? That may help you if there is.
I think it is time for a restraining order against this woman.

Sheesh, again, I feel so bad for you and your FIL!!! ((((hugs))))
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We have stopped answering any texts for over a month. Probably getting close to two months and the agency has been told three times to leave our family along. They insist they need updates in case he comes home and needs to begin their service again. There are other agencies and my husband feels they are partly the reason my FIL is in the shape he is. If it were my parent, I would hire an attorney but I can only do so much. I have a question mark about the entire agency. They all have been told point blank. There are two good investigative reporters in our town. Hoping to not need them.
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It sounds that you've done effective things, and she is no longer coming and sitting in the driveway. Is there something wrong with either ignoring her email, or sending it to her agency. Sometimes things have to be done several times, to make the case strongly. Or, if she writes again, send her a one liner that says, " We have asked you not to contact us. You are no longer involved here. Please respect our wishes and stay out of this case. I am sending this email and a copy of yours to your company. Leave us alone."

I understand all the reasons to stand up without confusion, not be guided by fear. But some people are thick headed, and they also think that if they are just emailing and asking for update, that is nice not awful. So, I'm not saying coddle her, but be crystal clear with no politeness, and ut before taking steps to get others after her, I'd suggest being clear and sending copies,
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I have no clue what is missing. All I know is what my FIL has told me, what other caregivers who have been around her have told me and how she has acted toward us. I do not know why she brought her husband, however, her husband has not been the problem -- she is.
The rehab facility has taken the necessary measures and the agency has been told to stop calling us and for her to stay away. They have been informed of her behavior and essentially have said, "so what?"
The stupid thing stared texting again today actually expecting updates. I'm wondering if going to the media over the entire mess would just be much more effective than any restraining order which will probably just jack this nut-case up more. Police in our area will not take this seriously and I know it but the media would.
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Eyerishlash could not have expressed it better!
You do need to move on this, because this woman is a stalker.

I read one of the other posters comments, and it was too slanted on the side of making more work for you and your family to try to figure, psychoanalyze this nurse and her motives. If your FIL, your husband, and the transitions about the health care involved aren't enough for this person to understand, NO, then it's her problem. There is something called the professional standard of care, and through the details involved in this story, this individual is not delivering the goods.

My very best to you and your family, but please don't allow your fear, to take over, for then it could regrettably become neglect. Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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That is a scary situation you should put a restraining order on her and avoid any contact. Now days you can't trust people specially with those kind of behavors.
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Something is way off here...Id call both her employer and the police. I wonder if she has a history of preying on the elderly. Let us know what happens.
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Maybe I've lived in the big city too long but under no circumstances would I approach this nut job or have any conversations with her. People get shot over less. I'd call the police if she came on the property. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience with my mother's paid caregiver from an agency. No disrespect to the nice caregivers on this thread. I wish I'd known y'all when my mom needed a caregiver. Anyway, she needs professional help. Your dad is first priority. This goofball needs to get the h/ll outa Dodge. Scary situation!
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There's something missing from this story. Either the DIL is not being told the whole story, or the FIL is not telling the whole story. Stalkers don't bring their husbands...unless, of course she is married to a stalker husband! And,what are the odds of that? No. There's something missing from this narration. I would go back to the woman, the FIL, or maybe the DIL and question everyone to get to the bottom of this. Good luck
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Document everything this "nurse" does, either by photos or paperwork. Tell her once in a certified letter to leave him alone and leave your family alone. Make photocopies of this letter. Send a copy to the agency. Go to your local domestic violence center for assistance, such as Your Sister type place. Then get a restraining order through the police and the courts. Notify the nurses association in your state after you have the restraining order. Have security notified where he is living as to the problem. It could be that she is a nurse imposter like in Seattle and Billings, MT. Now is not the time to be Nice.
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I agree with eyerishlass! Make the report. And do not worry about her feelings. I am not heartless but this woman harassing you is. And if she is unstable for her own good she needs to be reported. Maybe she can then get the help she needs.

Eyerishlass, I would trust you with my Mom -I can tell you are a good health care aide just from your posts! And you made a very good point about HIPPA . Just wanted to say that.
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This woman is a wack-job. Period.

You should not contact her for any reason. Not to say 'thank you', not to say 'go to hell' and not to say 'leave us alone'. Call the police and file a report. Do not let your fear of a reprisal keep you from contacting the authorities. Whatever you're doing to stop this behavior is not working. Let the police handle it and share with them your fear of reprisals.

I am a home healthcare nurse and I work through an agency. Yes, we get close to some patients. It's the nature of the business but when I am done with a job because my patient is going into a nursing home or family is going to care for the patient I will SOMETIMES give my patient a kiss on the cheek and I wish the patient and their family luck. And with a warm and genuine smile I am out the door. Of course I still think about previous patients, how they're doing, etc. but I would never, EVER contact a previous patient or a family for any reason. I don't even have their phone numbers nor do they have mine. Everything is done through the agency. If I am running late I call my agency and they call the patient. The agency should always be the go-between between nurses and patients. There is such a thing as being over familiar. Just as a patient can sometimes cross a line if we've been working together for a long time, so can the nurse. This person obviously has a problem with boundaries and it's not your job to teach her--it's a job for the police. I cannot stress this enough.

As far as this loon trying to track down your FIL in a facility this is where the HIPPA law can come in handy. A facility should not be giving out information on your FIL and with this crazy bitch running around, tell any facility your FIL may be in what is going on so they can be extra vigilant.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Not all home health nurses are like this. I would complain, again, to her agency. If this is a reputable agency they will not want this loose cannon creeping around giving them a bad name. Email the agency your complaint so you have a record of it and call them to complain as well. Talk to the owner of the agency or whoever is the superior. I would also talk to the Director of Nursing at the agency. Rattle as many cages as you need to.

This is stalking and that's against the law. Please get the police involved. File a restraining order. Don't think a lunatic won't observe a restraining order, you never know. Plus, you want to take all steps available to you. You mean business and she needs to know that. You don't want to get down the road and have someone say "Why didn't you ever file a restraining order?"

Being a caregiver is difficult enough without having to deal with this. Again, I am so sorry you have to go through this. But be proactive! Make your boundaries and limits crystal clear. Good luck to you, Joyce, and keep us up to date.
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Joyce,
With this additional information about the supplies being taken you really should get the hospital to step up the efforts to help you address the agency. This could well be considered medicare fraud. The agency is clearly liable and I'd be surprised if they condone this at all.
Get the hospital administration/social services/whatever, involved ASAP. Be kind and non-judgmental, just give them the facts as you know them which should include the strange "interest" in your FIL. Maybe the fact that your FIL is frightened of her/her family could be stressed.
Was your FIL in his own home before this hospitalization? Was she always coming to his home? Was he in AL? Sometimes the staff will borrow" personal care items when needed, but they are supposed to keep track and return the items.
Frankly, I don't think this is a police matter right now. You need to go through the hospital and nursing agency before the trip to the police. Document, document, document which includes any photos, statements from those who have been telling you about the nurse asking and pressing for information on your FIL. If you do have a meeting or talk with any one in authority or whatever about this problem...send a follow up email or note just to state what you talked about. Nothing is worse than thinking you have a verbal understanding only to find out later the understanding was not the same. So if you ask the hospital Social Services dept. to help your FIL in regards to the fear he has of the nurse/stalker...write it down and send to the person you spoke with.
Your family does not need this extra stress but going right to the police without more information may get you brushed off.
Unless, you have a pal in the police force that could intimidate her on the side!

Oh, and make sure you have sent her a registered letter thanking her for the service she provided ___date to ____ date through the __________ agency. Then say you have been concerned about the continued intrusion into your family at this difficult time so we ask you to not contact your family ...or something like that. don't be a vague as I've been. Send copy to agency, too.
Give it a chance? If she continues to pester your family, then you have to take further steps.
Let us know what progress you are making.
If she takes the mail out of the box, she is liable for great damage thru the USPS as she is violating those laws, too.
Gosh, good luck!
Bonnie
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Thanks Castle & Bonnie. We have learned additional information that this nurse was taking supplies to be used for my FIL and using them for other patients. The justification of why supplies needed to be shared we do not know but do know that these supplies were covered under insurance and my FIL had to pay out of pocket for additional supplies (we simply thought he was out, did not learn until recently they had been taken).
I was a volunteer for years at a retirement facility. I would have never dreamed to hunt a patient down or call other people in contact and demand answers.
My husband has expressed more than once his thanks and she even stated in a text message, "you are aware when his care transitions that I will no longer be his nurse?" He affirmed yes and thanked her again.
One of my FIL's additional workers informed us that she has been contacted one too many times, is feeling threatened and will be looking for a way to block her calls. We are possibly going to lose a good helper due to this emotionally challeged behavior.
My husband said that the last thing he should have to worry about at this time is holding her hand through this. If she is that emotionally fragile, I question her ability to stay in her profession. I do understand the attachment that forms but if this was any other profession (e.g. a teacher, police officer, employee at a hospital that could not let go of a person in their care) it would begin to raise eyebrows.
If she had not responded after nicely being told he is safe and well-cared for, "I am going to track him down because I HAVE to see him" then maybe our responses would had been different if she had just said, "wish you guys the best and tell him I said, "hello."
We have spoken to the person in partial charge of his care at the hospital and they were very concerned over this and encouraged us to contact police if her erratic behavior continues. They said it is a shame family has to be put through this.
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Having absolutely no experience in this matter I'll put in my two cents worth anyway.
If you fil is in a hospital, they have social workers who have great experience with all kinds of cases. Ask to speak to a senior social worker and tell her your concerns as well as let her listen to your FIL's wishes on the matter.

The agency that provides care and receives government funding/medicare most likely has social workers on staff, too.

By talking with the hospital social services and expressing your concerns about this nurse you may find s/he will be helpful and contact the agency director, directly.
Your FIL deserves peace and comfort while he is getting better.
Good luck
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Joyce, I apologize if I have empathized too much with the caregiver side, and focused on some of the complexities which can lead to mistaken expectations. I read your posts again, and see that she was not there for long. Maybe she thinks she plays a more leading role within her own agency, than they have defined or see. I think I'm just saying that if she played a leadership role, that can be acknowledged and question what she thinks is her continued role. You said your husband spoke with her and thanked her, but sometimes if someone's mind is made up, or when we thank in general for care rather than leadership, confusion can remain. I'm just advocating for some further directness with delicacy and questions about what she expects now, along with the statement that she is not acting with your permission, and if she cannot explain herself with her supervisor and get your permission, you will call in police or authorities. Even when challenging someone, one can always apologize for any misunderstanding, and give her a formal route for her to object if she does. This gives her notice and also the expectation that she will explain herself, through her supervisor, or in a note, saso that you can hear her side in a calm setting, and if she does not make some attempt to explain to your family, and she goes there again you will call the authorities. Say if you don't hear from her in a few days, you will call her supervisorelf if she has a mistaken impression). Tell her, if you see her there again, you will call the supervisor.
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Oh, thank you, Joycews, I appreciate your efforts to look at the situation, and tell it like it is, as you get clarity on it. I do that myself, so often, and it really helps. I've been a caregiver, and have experienced sad gaps in understanding. I also see my role as being a caring human being, so I try to picture things from different people's perspectives.

I was trying to suggest that you talk with her, with curiosity, or your husband - NOT your FIL, for that communication gets confused.and changes over time, and may have been incomplete or distorted along the way. The caregiver has had to learn to interpret and still hang in there trough challenges, so she has learned to question first words. You might find some other neutral intermediary to try to find out what she thinks, or maybe ask her husband.

Caregivers who work closely with patients find the patient changes stories, may speak strongly in moments of fear, may not be clear with different parties (including family) because they are afraid to hurt anyone's feelings or alienate them, they often say one thing to one group of people and something else to others. On a rough day, the patient may criticize the caregiver mercilessly, and the carer struggles to hang in there, not quit - and they learn that this is part of the patient's struggle with loss or fear. So because the caregiver has hung in there to help him and move through such difficulties, they don't take the patient's words as absolute, they try to stay put, not leave, and come often to understand that the criticism was because the patient was afraid of some change, and the patient then apologises. In other words, a caregiver learns that you trust the words of the patient only so far, especially when their mind begins to go.

So it would help if someone else listened to the caregiver's view, so it can be included in any limit setting or explanation later, and given respect and value that may be due, rather than have someone work hard and now be shut out.

I was a sole caregiver for someone in their home over 4 years, she only wanted me, no other carer. As I cooked and cared 4 days a week, we swapped stories and life lessons, and I saw her through health risks and ups and downs. She trusted me, and I deserved and honored that trust. Her daughter, living in another state, also trusted my care, but she didn't see the ups and downs and relationship, as it all went well. As the patient grew more frail, she began to rely on her distant daughter's impressions more, for she loved and depended on her daughter. I understood and respected that relationship, but as time evolved, I found my leadership was less and less trusted or followed, even though I had done nothing different. It was a painful time for me - even worse when the family hired a new cleaning lady with a charismatic personality, and she and the daughter loved to chat together and I just found myself more on the outside, after 4 years of dedicated care. Yes, it's just a job, but it's a job where a paid caregiver can feel valued and needed, and is proud to be able to reliably add competent leadership, valued by the patient, but not necessarily by the agency or the family, who don't look too closely, as long as things seem to be reliably going well.

If this person set up the care switch as you say, she may see herself as the most knowledgeable, proven advocate or care leader, who showed her leadership role of working in his best interests by suggesting and supporting a new care plan. She has mistakenly, but understandably - expected others to communicate with and value her, not just the FIL.

Who knows what impressions she may have gained - from him in stories or quick remarks, or from her assumptions, about the role of his family in his life. Sometimes elders complain or seem neglected - and it's actually something that is resolvable or a misunderstanding, but the caregiver has only his words for her frame of reference. Sometimes, the caregiver is used to being the one to sit nearby and listen closely and slowly, while the family are more involved in overall planning and administration, so the caregiver learns to feel they are playing a key role for the patienty and thus helping the family by solving each issue. The patient may have looked at them with relief at someone who can be close and helpful, when others didn't, for many valid reasons.

Then suddenly, as things progress, the family arrive, aware of the new need for them to more closely manage the care, and they don't understand how to see and respect the role of trust and knowledge that evoved with a caregiver's ongoing tasks. Some carers arrived initially in a situation which was not working well, they studied the scene and gradually brought consistency and positive direction, yet family and their agency don't realize the key role that a particular caregiver played.

And often the patient will not tell them, for it feels disloyal to family - so a caregiver can find they were instrumental but no one saw the insights they brought and the actual work they did, for families tend to communicate with agency supervisors, and both can see all caregivers as interchangeable, all are invisible as members of a care team. Many times agencies don't look too closely at how things are done, as long as they are done, and shifts are filled.

I'm not trying to say that limits shouldn't be set - only that someone in the family, not the FIL - should try to find someone who can listen to the caregiver's interpretation, and then a fuller plan can be made. Set limits but with kindness and respect. Just having the family learn the value of that caregiver can make a huge difference; maybe arrange for a once a month visit, with a plan for the carer to report to the family - I know it's not the normal role for agency employees, but real care happens, even in the middle of assigned duties, and when caregivers helped my brother when I lived far away, I was often very glad it did, for it made his life better. It is hard to navigate, and family has the upper hand and the duty to orchestrate, but first hand communication can help you understand her. Maybe she has an overstated impression of her role, but your paying attention can help you get on her side as you set limits, rather than blaming her without a deserved effort to understand what she's trying to say.

If she was only involved a short time with your FIL, then she may not deserve the chance to speak - but anything more, is worth getting someone to listen, and she may obey any limits much more willingly. Sorry for this length!
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@Castle -- hi, yes my FIL has not only asked her not to come by but to make matters worse -- she 100% knows that his caregiving needs has changed because she was the person who got her boss to sign paperwork for his care to go in another direction. I had mentioned in my original post that she had contacted my FIL and he asked her not to come over and that she is aware he had a new caregiving situation. It has been this way now for 4-5 weeks.
My husband has thanked her more than once for her help as the cargiving relationship was ending.
No, she was not his only caregiver. He was receiving help from another person at the agency (who could stay on and medicare pay, but this person could not because another group took over), four people from the new group, a friend and my husband.
As she was sitting in his driveway today, she flagged down a woman who lived not far from my FIL and who was helping him. She was pushy and insistant she be told an update. The lady assured her that he was being taken care of, his family is wanting privacy and that his home is being maintained by his son.
It was later this evening we learned she has taken it upon herself to being walking into health care facilities to see if my FIL is there.
She has brought her husband at one point to see my FIL on one of her visits and it upset him and he asked she not return with him. She developed a habit of coming by apart from her scheduled time, so we were not present to know what happened. She also mentioned a relative that was coming to town that was being released from prison and my FIL being elderly and easy to shake-up from numerous health problems got in his mind she was intending to bring this man with her as she had her husband. It took him the rest of the night to calm down.
She has not been his caregiver for years and being from an agency, she should have lots of patients to currently see and take care of.
I simply cannot understand why a person who is told 1) the patient is fine, 2) you are no longer their caregiver (you set up the entire switch remember) and 3) knowing without a shadow of a doubt that the family is requesting privacy anyone with even a small amount of compassion would put a family through this. Her "relationship" was as a paid provider through Medicare.
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Heavens, no one has suggested talking with this woman - telling her explicitly that you have different caregivers now. Ask her why she thinks she should now be involved, or what she thought she meant to him. How long did she work with him, and was she the only one a the time, or were there others. And use kindness and just say that sounds sad, but tell her he has moved on. And if she continues then, tell her your father and you, as his family, want her to leave him alone. It can make such a difference to take a little time with someone - do you have any idea why she thinks she was special to him, or more so than some other caregiver? You can hear some of those things, and appreciate them, and just tell her thank you, maybe he was lucky to have her, but you have now moved on, and even if it may be hard (if she protests), it's the way it is now, and that you don't want to have to pursue it any further. Relationships happen during caregiving; misunderstandings happen and people are vulnerable. We need to learn, even if it's not the easiest, to set limits while also being direct, and curious, and listening - not have a closed mind that doesn't learn what's involved, and just call the police. Police should be a last resort, with understanding and care tried first.
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Try getting a video of her near your house, and let her see you doing it.
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Joyce's, not to worry you further but you are right to be worried about filing an order of protection. But I think you should still do it but be very watchful during this time. Dr. Phil once said that a battered woman who leaves and files a straining order is at their most vulnerable then for being hurt in retaliation. Could be the same here. BUT I am a pretty suspicious person and I worry a lot but better to be overly cautious during this time than not.
If you are worried about your child take this person's picture up to your child's school and have them post it where all faculty can see and tell them she cannot enter the school! Schools are pretty locked down now anyway but just in case.
I think you need to file no matter the fears of retaliation but just be extra careful during that time. Most likely, though, any police involvement will scare her. Also , one must think about the other families she could be targeting. If you do not place her on notice with the agency she could harm others as well. Maybe she is already and would not know who filed the complaint? I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I wish I could be of some real help.
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Thank you Mishka, RonJess1, & terrim.
This had worried me on several aspects and terrim, I worried about one of the very things you mentioned about her thinking we are "keeping him away from her."
I also worried that she would try to cause problems in some way like making false reports and causing trouble. She tried to start trouble today by saying his mail was not picked up (it was today's mail after delivery).
My one concern with filing a report with the agency/police is if she is fired, she will then equally come after us with, "you cost me my job." Same as if she is given a restraining order, "you've embarassed me, now I'm coming for you."
She knows we have a minor child and has seen her photo in my FIL's house among family photos. In addition to worry about my FIL, I have worried about if we do something, she will retaliate against my child. I know for a mentally unstable person, a restraining order is just another piece of paper.
I'm beyond upset, mad, etc. that in the midst of dealing with my FIL (and it has been horrible), we now have this kind of person added to the mix making things worse and more stressful.
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def call the cops!!!!
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Joycews- This is stalking and the woman sounds like she has some sort of mental problems. Call the police right now. File a report. Ask them to help you file a restraining order against her and if she violates it, you can call police and they will arrest her and she will face the judge. Also, ask the lawyer to file against the agency. They brought this unbalanced woman into your father in law's life. Do this right away. Women like this one can actually harm or kill him and maybe even get it in her head you are keeping him from her and try to kill you. Be safe! Call them now!!!
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I would go to the police. This could be called elder abuse, I think. Have them keep an eye out for her car. If your town is small enough they will do it. My husband had to fire a guy at his work -for putting cleaner in another workers coke- and he threatened my husband and his boss. He did it in such a way as not to be tracable. When they told the city police where the office is ( of big city ) they blew my husband and his boss off but when we told our local police ( small town) they were all over it and posted a cop at the end of our development for awhile.

We also told all the neighbors to be on the lookout for the car and the man. -well, the police came to our driveway and the neighbors were starring so we kinda felt like we had to tell them what was going on but it ended up making me feel better knowing they were looking as well. The kid-he was rather young, did not end up doing anything-Thank God-but I still worry though it has been years.

I would call the cops and I would document everything that this woman does that is weird. And try and get her taped if she calls.

This just is horrible that you and your father and family have to go through this. Please take this seriously. Good luck and keep us posted if you can
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