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Hello, everyone. I am writing this question because I do not know where to get help or who else to ask. My grandpa passed away last June. Since then, my mom has been taking care of my 94 year old grandmother. She helped with my grandparents before my grandpa died, but now helps out a lot more than she used to.


Her only sister lives several states away and only visits a couple times a year. I help my mom when I can, but I am a teacher so I do not have the free schedule. My mom is 70 so she isn't young herself. She doesn't work so she is able to be a caregiver.


My grandmother lives alone in an apartment and does fairly well. She has some dementia problems and they do seem to slowly be getting worse. She also has vision problems. Luckily though, she still has her wits and humor! She enjoys watching TV and movies, talking on the phone, and reading books and magazines.


Since my grandpa died, my mom goes to her house for about 5-7 hours everyday, usually between the hours of 11:30-6:30. She no longer does anything with her friends or family during the day, she sometimes makes excuses to do events in the evening, and travel is out of the question. My grandmother gets meals on wheels delivered, however, she will not eat unless my mom is there. I feel this counter balances the delivery service because she will not eat without my mom. She thinks my mom looks forward to this lunch every day. Not that she doesn't, but she will not tell my grandmother otherwise. My mom has to give her her pills, make dinner, housework, driving, etc. for grandmother.


My mom has SO much guilt if she is not at my grandmothers for that long of a time everyday. A few times, her and I have gotten lunch on the weekend or spent some time together so she has gone over later than normal. She will lie to my grandmother about what she is doing because she does not want her upset that she is actually spending some time with me.


I have suggested to my mom that she goes and spends time with her, leave to go do her OWN things, and then come back to spend more time. She feels immense guilt even doing that. So instead, she has to do all of her housework, cooking, etc. in the evenings.


I have also notice some health issues in my mom, however, she will not even leave my grandmother to go to the doctor. She is now using Covid as an excuse to not leave, but I have notice her physical and mental health changing in the year since my grandpa passed away. She has not gotten a physical in probably at least 3 years.


We get in lots of arguments over this situation. I am trying to be understanding and think of what I would do in the same situation. My grandmother has lived a very spoiled life so she is not the kind that would tell my mom to continue to live HER life. I understand my mom has to do certain things for her, but it breaks my heart that she has not tried doing small things to make her life better. She has really been using Covid as her excuse lately. She has broken down to me several times now and I know she is getting burnt out. She never cries. However, she has not made ANY changes in her routine to try to help with her burn out.


I did make my mom go to a couple of care giver support classes and she joined some groups on Facebook. The counselor at the meeting told my mom she needs to also think of herself, but she has not changed anything with her routine or my grandmothers.


I am open to any advice or messages I can pass on to my mom. I love her and I love my grandmother, but I am just worried that I will not get to enjoy my mom as long because she is not taking care of herself. Thank you.

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Clearly, your mother needs to change this, but it’s on her to do it. You can’t make the changes for her. She has both misguided guilt and a wrong idea that she’s the only one who can provide care for her mother. She’ll need to get over both of those wrong notions. Of course her own health will decline with her keeping up this pace and neglecting herself. Can you have an honest discussion with her, tell her your concerns, and see if she’s open changes? A helper for grandma? My dad has one now, and she’s been an enormous help to both him and our family. Have your mom look around on this site, she will read many stories of caregiver burnout, and how people changed situations for the better.
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sj8827 May 2020
Thank you so much for your advice. I have tried having a few conversations with her, but nothing much has come out of the conversations. I will have her look at this website and talk with her about looking for a helper. Even just some help occasionally would be nice for her! Thanks again.
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Often it is mentioned on this site that people are waiting for a major health crisis so their parents will finally accept help, move into a nursing home etc.

You cannot change Mum, but you can be clear about your concerns for her and that as she is neglecting her own health, you will not be able to pick up all the pieces if she has a health incident.

Mum may also be operating from FOG, Fear Obligation and Guilt. She may have been programmed from early childhood to cater to her mother who you say has lived a spoiled life. I suspect this, as you have stated, Mum will not tell grandma that she has had lunch with you, instead she makes up excuses. Why on earth would your mother feel the need to lie to her mother about having lunch with her daughter?

It is good that she has been willing to go to a therapist and has joined some support groups. Hopefully that will encourage her to believe that she needs a life too.
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sj8827 May 2020
Thank you so much. I am going to look at FOG, that sounds exactly like what she has and I do think she has always been this way since she was a child.
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It’s sad your mother is refusing to recognize caregiver burnout. I sometimes think that some people place their value or worth on how much they suffer or sacrifice. It gets mixed up in their mind and they can’t use proper judgment or reason. She may feel that she has little time left to spend with her mother. It’s also possible that your grandmothers dementia is progressing and she sees a need to spend more time there. I know it must be frustrating.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Yes, I can see both of these. Thank you for reading my vent on this issue!
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Some great answers here, so I will only add:
It's very frustrating to witness, but it's not up to you to fix this for your mom. Also you can't, even if you try. She may or may not end up deciding to change how she is dealing with this, but it might make no difference if you two have 10 or 861 conversations about it.

I've worked with family caregivers for years, but I still have to remind myself this when talking to my own mother (who sometimes burns herself out trying to please her 92 year-old father!).
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sj8827 Jun 2020
That is very true! I try to not bring it up too often because so far, she has not changed her mind on much. Sometimes it is just hard to bite my tongue, but I will try harder!
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Sj, welcome!
You say that grandma is " spoiled" and that your mom seems guilty and perhaps scared of taking care of her own needs.

Do a little googling about folks with narcissism and see if any of what you read reminds you of grandma's behavior. If it does, read up on how daughters of narcissists turn out.

There are a couple of good books on the subject that mom might benefit from reading.
Start with this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathycaprino/2016/07/09/how-being-raised-by-a-narcissist-damages-your-life-and-self-esteem/#39c3c7a92c67

Another book recommendation is Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud. Mom really needs to make time for herself and her family or she may well become part of the 35% of caregiving folks who die before their charges.
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Invisible May 2020
For crying out loud, she is 94 and probably doesn't get out much. Doesn't make her a narcissist. Her world is just small and she is accepting as much help as is offered.
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There is so much help out there for us caregivers if we want it and are open to it. Sounds like your mom has a "martyr" complex, or "saviour" complex, meaning that she feels that she and only she can save the day, (or grandma). Caregiving is extremely time consuming, physically and mentally exhausting and is not for the faint of heart. It can and does slowly change us over time and not always for the better either. It's so very important that your mom takes much deserved time for herself and that your grandma understands that she (your mom) needs it if she is to continue doing a good job with her. Perhaps your mom needs to look into hiring someone to come in a few times a week to give her a break. I think your mom would be amazed how much better she would feel if she did that. Like the saying goes, "you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Hopefully your mom will drink the water. Best wishes.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
That quote is very true in her case! Thank you for reading my post and giving some advice. Hopefully she will start to see she needs a break
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First--let me say that you are a wonderful daughter to even be aware of this dynamic that your mom has going on. Most people (my own kids included!) pretty much take for granted all the service I give and all the things I do for my mom, their dad and their kids....bless you for being so aware.

Sadly, you can't do much to help mom. She is going to do what she has self programmed to do and with grandma at 94, there's little chance of her changing.
However, I think you being aware and talking to her about it, perhaps making a point that she is missed by the rest of the family, etc., may have some power in this.

I have much the same problem--I get way too involved in other people's lives and problems and it never end well. My DH actually had to have a sort of intervention one time when I was so enmeshed in another woman's problems I was really neglecting my own family--AND making myself sick in the process.

We have the same thing going on with my MIL. She is capable of taking care of herself and insists in living alone--yet my SIL is there everyday for hours upon hours sometimes. My DH does not want to be involved, and so he isn't. Period. "I" can't change either of them in their mindsets. SIL feels she needs to give her mom 5 + hrs of care per day and DH won't go to even see her unless SIL calls and begs him for help. Even then--he just hates it.

You can only love and support mom, I doubt grandma has any thought to this being a fairly one sided caregiving situation.

You've gotten good advice, good luck implementing some kind of respite for your mom.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Thank you for your response, sounds like a very similar situation to what my mom is doing. I will try to just keep being there for her and try to back off some!
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Your Mother stepped in to help & fell down the slippery slope. Some folk put the brakes on & climb out - reach out to others, research options, hire aides, maybe even consider AL/NH.

But some land in the quicksand at the bottom. Either unable to plan to regain their own life - or unwilling to.

Grandmother needs care is a fact. But this can be provided in many ways. Why does your Mother FEEL she has to provide ALL the care?

Keep dangling rope ladders out of the quicksand! Keep offering alternative solutions. Maybe an eldercare agency can provide a list of services like groceries delivery, housecleaner, aides visiting etc.
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Arwen31 May 2020
Perfectly said
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Hello - my name is Megwin and I read your post. I can identify with it a lot, since I was a caregiver most of mu life, but now I am 80 yrs old and am looking at it from a standpoint of needing care myself. It is very difficult to care for someone when you are already challenged like your Mom. I took care of my deceased (divorced) husband for over 15 yrs. Do I suffer from burnout or guilt? No not really, but I do know what it feels like to get up and forget about yourself so you can go and take care of someone that is very ill. He had Agent Orange Cancer - something the Viet Nam War left behind in many of the soldiers that fought over there. It eventually did kill him - I found him dead on the bathroom floor one morning half dressed.
I have to tell you that I believe your Mom will not listen to you, and one day it might catch up with her. If you can convince her to take care of her own needs at least to some extent, after your Grandmother is gone, your Mom will feel the guilt, and it might really cause her a deep depression. The death of your Grandmother will be a relief, followed by deep guilt as it is. Help her all you can - I know how hard that will be on you. Try to tell your Mom that your Grandmother has had a long life and that she will soon be ready to go - but in your mind remember that this might not be true. I am not sure how old your Grandmother is - and I think you said she is still taking care of herself.
Eventually you might be the one that has to make the decision to let your Grandmother go to a facility that will take care of her. That will be a very hard decision - and one that might cause guilt in you - a lot of guilt - but it might save your Mom and let her have an easier old age.

It is hard to give advice with what is going on in your life - and to take care of others is one of the hardest things one can do.
I had to reach out to you because I could feel your pain and the indecision of what you might do to help your Mom - I think that you might have to step back just a touch - support her and try to help her, but try not to bombard her with what she SHOULD do - this will be hard on you - but easier on her.

If you feel like writing to me personally - feel free - I would try to help all I can.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Thank you for the advice and I am so sorry to hear about your husband. I will try stepping back and not getting on her as much. It is just hard because I feel like she is giving up a lot of HER life. I love my grandmother so much (she is 94 and we have always been close), but I have also been very close to my mom and it just breaks my heart to see the life she is living now.
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I was in a similar spot a few years ago, spending 6 hours a day at Dad’s place. Guilt, anger and resentment were wreaking havoc with my sanity. I was in a deep trench, physically and emotionally. The first thing I had to do was accept that I needed help. That was a hurdle. Then, Dad resisted. We got past that obstacle. It was a process of trial and error to figure out and find the help that helped, but was worth the effort. I blogged about it, good therapy, and this is one of the posts, https://www.sustainablecaregiving.com/10-ways-the-family-caregiver-can-stay-afloat-with-help/. It may be a starting point for more conversations between you and your mom. Dad is 98 now and I still take care of him. It is a much more balanced and healthy experience than it was in the beginning. You are awesome to recognize that she needs help and right to be concerned about her health and well-being. I wish you all the best!!
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Thank you for sharing this article, I am going to pass it along! Hearing your story gives me some hope for my mom, it sounds exactly like what she is doing now. Thank you for the kind words! :)
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Help your Mom find a housekeeper for your grandma would be my first step. That's a small, very acceptable way to start turning over duties to someone else. Your mom is kind of an enabler because she is trying to fill all the gaps for her mother by herself. Once she and your grandmother see that the world won't come to an end if she doesn't stay all day to do the housework - and your grandma might enjoy a fresh face - then look to see what else you can offload. Baby steps. This will also prepare your grandma if she eventually has to go into assisted living.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Yes, I agree! I think my grandmother won't like the idea at first, but I think she would grow to be ok with it if my mom would just try. Thank you so much.
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Your mom is probably too exhausted to check out options for your grandma. I would seek out potential facilities for grandma to be cared for. Do the homework and tour some potential places. Then present your mom with the top three choices and give her convincing reasons why grandma would be better off in a facility with 24 hour care.
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I also took care of my mom in an independent facility as her memory was shot and i worked my self into a frenzy, was sick constantly and later I realized I had care giver burn out. I finally hired caregivers not a perfect scenario as (no one can care for their mother as well ) BUT it was the only thing that helped me have some peace and rest more often than not My sister states away wasn't much help, hardly flew out to relieve me.. Your mom definitely needs to hire someone to help and should never feel bad about saying she is spending time with family or you!! your grandmother had her time and your mom isnt getting any younger! I eventually put mom in memeory care 24/7 and that was the best thing for me I hate to say this but your mom comes first!! during this lock down I also realized I didn't need to be at the facility everyday to make sure everything was running smoothly. It didn't run smoothly most of the time but my mom was alive every morning and she was ok and just ok is good enough!!! Memory care facilities are just ok but my mom is safe and watched over even if they dont tend to details, mis match her clothes, comb her hair terribly ect... I have my l life back and I still have my mom she is surviving at 94 its a WIN WIN Best of luck in convincing mom she deserves to have her last years too!!!
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Thank you so much for your advice. I wish my mom thought some more about herself and hopefully she will start to do that. She wants everything perfect for my grandmother (which is great that she wants to do that, she loves taking care of others, even me!), but I hate to see how little she is taking care of herself.
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Imho, it's easy for you to "see" the problem here as you are "looking in from the outside," so to speak - you're not the active caregiver. Perhaps your mother feels a sense of duty, but at some point, she will need respite - probably now, else she drops over and faints and falls ill. Prayers and big hugs sent to you.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Thank you :)
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I have been your mom. Caregivers do what they do for their own reasons. For me, I loved my mother very deeply and she had been such a wonderful mother to me, I wanted to do everything I could for her. Yes, I suffered and my immediate family suffered. She has passed and I have no regrets. My only wish is that I had had more help. If you want to help your mother - relieve her. Say, I'll go on Saturdays so you can rest. Or whatever time you can commit to. She may resist because she doesn't think you'll do as good a job but if you can commit to a consistent time, your mother will learn she can rely on you. Like others have said, find a housekeeper, research facilities. Help. I often had people tell me "you know you have to take care of yourself", which was useless. I needed actual help not just what amounted to empty criticism. Offer help and you may be surprised what unfolds. She may just need a breather to see more clearly.
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sj8827 Jun 2020
Yes, I know that is how my mom feels and I have heard her say some of those exact words. I do try to help when I can and I enjoy spending time with my grandmother. I know my mom doesn't want any regrets when she passes, I just wish she would see she might have some regrets on her own life if she doesn't make some changes.
Thank you for your thoughts though!
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Can Mom get her an aide that will she can let in the apartment and then Mom can leave to do whatever for about 4 hours at least?

My mother and I live together....she's 93yo and I'm not young either...61. However, I have a private pay aide for 25 hrs a week...before the plague, I was working p/t 3 days a week & aide was here while I was at work...I have to do everything for my mother...she was in SNF and I discharged her 3 yrs ago.

I can't imagine doing everything I'm doing for my mother at age 70. I'm exhausted now, and I'm in pretty good shape. However, I've postponed my drs appointments, and I won't take my mother anywhere except outside in front of the house for some fresh air. (aide has to transfer from wheelchair to stairlift chair).

My advice...start looking around for assisted living if she won't allow a home health aide to come in to help her for a few hours every day.

Good luck & hugs :)
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sj8827 Jun 2020
I wish mom would look for someone. Right now, she said because of Covid she can't, however she has been saying that before Covid as well. Hopefully she will start making some small changes. I did convince her to schedule a Drs. appointment when she took my grandmother last week so that is a small win! :)
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My mom took care of her dad (my grandfather) as he steadily declined with Parkinson’s, some dementia and a strong dominant personality. My mom would call me saying little things at first like he needed help clipping his toenails and getting dinner, she was happy to help as his only daughter and grandmother had passed years earlier , then as he got worse around 90 years of age and two years into constant care - already my mom helping him everyday after selling her house to move in with him - I realized my mom was giving up ALL her active life for him. He had made no plans for anything in his old age. Nothing. Had not even talked to my mom about money or wills or anything important . And assumed this was the way it was to be and my mother just did her best ....She just kept doing more and more . It really became a 24/7 job with no end in sight. Mom never really complained herself until one night she called me crying . Said she couldn’t handle it all anymore and didn’t know what to do. There were no answers she tried to hire nurses to come in he would let them go on it went. It never got easier . In fact I’d say the last year of my grandfathers life and especially the end were not joyful in any way. Made me realize years ago I would never do that to my children. Your children should not be your retirement plan. Sorry it sounds harsh but I got that comment from a book on elderly care.
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Boundaries. Both you and your mom could benefit from some.

You are so kind to try to help your mom out and not let her burn herself out. You are right to be concerned.

It seems like your mom is spending an excessive amount of time with her mom and could really benefit from a little less time there.

It would be nice if she would set some boundaries to tell her mom this is how it's going from now on. Her mom won't like it, but that's OK. What your mom wants to do with her time, including doing NOTHING, is completely valid and does not need to be justified to her mom.

The not eating lunch thing without her is so silly. Your mom could tell her that she is not eating lunch there every day and that she should eat her lunch when it arrives. It's too much pressure for her to have to be there for her to eat! She should purposely not be there when it arrives.

If grandma is not safe to be alone, might need to hire an aide to spend some time there. Or someone to do the cleaning, etc. to free your mom up.

Your mom should have time to spend with you and to live her own life. Grandmas could live many years and this is not a great life for your mom.

Now, boundaries on your end. You do not need to let grandma control you through controlling your mom. Not sure what you may be doing differently, if anything, to accommodate grandma's situation, but your mom has to realize that her choice to let grandma rule over her is not going to rule over you too.

You are a good daughter to be trying to help your mom!!!
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