Hello everyone,
My mother in law’s elderly boyfriend recently swapped out his current car lease for a new one in September.
For starters, I really don’t think it was a good idea for a 91-year-old man to start a new lease, but that’s not really the focal point here.
Last week, he told my mother-in-law that he didn’t remember how to get to the corner grocery store. This is somewhere they’ve gone hundreds of times in their relationship and is literally a half mile away. He has admitted to himself he can no longer drive...a month after he started the lease.
A couple of things here of note: the guys at this dealership totally effed him over with the price of the car to begin with, so they wouldn’t give two hoots about hoodwinking an old man with cognitive issues into signing a very bad deal. Not to mention he thought it was up in September not realizing he had a full year left on his current lease. Again, he has a memory issues and cognitive decline going on.
Here is the crux of it all and thanks for reading so far.
I want to know if there are any legal grounds for terminating the lease due to a dementia or even an Alzheimer’s diagnosis if it can be proven he was suffering at the time he signed this contract. Otherwise, he is stuck with a lease that no one in their right mind would buy him out of.
Thanks, all.
And, since you mentioned his memory issue and driving you can go onto the DMV website in the state where he lives and anonymously submit a letter making the case as to why he should have his driving privilege ended. I've done this myself 4 times for 4 close relatives. Good luck!
We have seen the threat of bad publicity work on vaccums here. Not sure about car leasing. Get help. You can't afford to go wrong here.
When you think what THEY will say to you, they will say "He seemed fine to US. We explained everything and he signed. Where is your proof he was not mentally capable of signing for this". Be ready for that.
If you indicate you're calling on behalf of a vulnerable adult, you may be able to get some guidance.
Also ask what other agencies addressing elder law abuse might be able to help out. There might be some affiliated with local bar associations that offer free advice, and less likely, legal assistance.
Other options are to visit local Seniors Centers on the free legal days (which vary by SC) and ask your questions of them on how to nullify a lease.
Do you have a copy of the lease, or can you get one? More than likely, if there are other nullification options, they'd be in the tiny print (so small you need a magnifying glass) on the back of the lease agreement. And they're probably subject to time limits and clauses that benefit only the leasing company.
You'll want information on elder abuse as well as leasing options and alternative remedies to abuse.
A sometimes better option is publicity, negative publicity, shaming publicity, as in the kind when local tv reporters highlight a company that's abused a vulnerable elder. Change.org also used to be a good source for posting information to be shared online.
Someone once posted about an abusive Bank of America practice; so many people supported the complaint and protested against BAC that it rescinded its policy (so I've read).
I do believe we may have to resort to public shaming or bad publicity in this case. I think they deserve it.
Does he have a Guardian?
If he has a Guardian then the Guardian should be able to get him out of the contract. (I am sure a Judge would find that a person diagnosed with dementia and one with a Guardian can not legally enter into a contract.)
If this person does not have a Guardian or an official diagnosis it might be something that needs to be taken up with an Elder Care Lawyer
No guardian, no. And I am pretty sure there has been no official diagnosis yet and any one that comes now will be be after the fact. This man is stubborn and prior to this probably would bristle at the idea of a doctor telling him he has dementia or anything like it. That will definitely not work in his favor.
But I don't know how you can prove it. Any medical records to go on? A lawyer might be interested in the challenge.
I know he is mentally incapacitated and even HE knows it now. Sadly, that probably won't be enough and what's the difference if he loses the money for the lease if the legal fees match that total? LOL
I say this because of a case I was involved in concerning a car dealer.
in the court room, it finally came down to whether or not the buyer was capable of understanding the contract at the time it was signed. Because the buyer could be demonstrated to not understand sentences with multiple verbs and nouns...the jury could see the buyer didn't understand the contract. And that is a base requirement for a legal contract...that the buyer be capable of understanding it.
i believe that a lawyer going to court with him could easily demonstrate to a jury that he is not contractually competent.
i am pretty sure the broken lease value will be well into multiple thousands....far beyond anything small claims will handle.
civil court is a long winded process, expensive, and really expensive for the loser...loser pays all costs.
bet they try to settle for anything rather than have their business practices looked at by a court.
No advice here. Just supporting your anger towards the dealership.
My take: Start with the dealership, and work your way from the salesman all the way up to the owner. Dealerships have several levels of management in the sales department, so it will take time and patience (and a lot of repeating yourself) to get through to the top.
The request to annul the contract should be made in writing as well as in person (give a copy of the letter to each person spoken to). Be firm, but pleasant and courteous, and don't mention an attorney or contacting your local news until you get somewhat up the chain. Record each person's name and the time/date you spoke with them.
If you get all the way to the owner and still don't get results, then it's time for that call to the local news station's consumer assistance line. If they can't help, you'll probably end up consulting an attorney. Hopefully it won't get to that stage.
And in the meantime, the aggrieved gentleman should visit a physician and be evaluated for cognitive disorders. A diagnosis, including an opinion of likely date of onset, will be the best evidence for action in his favor.
Get in with an Elder Law Attorney now. They will be able to tell you if you have a chance here or not AND get a Power of Attorney while you're there. Good luck!
Why does your mother even still have a drivers license?
Whos letting a 91yr old person drive whether theyre capable or not?
Being 91 is NOT the criteria. There are those who are that old and older who can still drive safely, and there are those who can't. Some 20-60 yos can't drive worth crap, yet they get no flak.
Talk to the dealership owner and tell them that there is no chance of this lease being paid for and they should listen.
Since he is 91, does he look 91 - - is it obvious that he's quite elderly ??? Regardless of his mental state, although certainly memory impairment would be suspected, if he had a year to go on his prior lease, it would have been FRAUDULENT for the leasing company to not be clear about that and to press for a new lease (something they are in the business to do). That might be one point of law.
But the other point of law may be to contact Adult Protective Services because there's a lot of ELDER FINANCIAL ABUSE going on and it seems like you could make a case for the leasing company to have known better to not take advantage of him.
As for the lease, check this out:
https://www.moneyunder30.com/get-out-of-a-car-lease
Just stopping payment or attempting to return it isn't likely to work. They can repo the car AND still send it off to collections. Ruining his credit isn't the big issue, it is the hassle that will ensue. Given how car dealers work, there isn't a lot of hope for getting out of this lease. He had no Dx, no one was in control, etc., so how are they to know? There are plenty of 90+ drivers who are still competent AND still okay with driving. Funny thing - my license is up for renewal and they are requiring me to come in (usually the first 5 year renewal can be done online, but not for me! I am only 66!) Apparently the old thoughts stick around - anyone over 60 is a danger?
If he has family, is there someone who would be willing to take over the lease and car? If not, the two options I can see from reading the above link is 1) attempt early termination (it will cost him, if it is even an option) or 2) attempt a lease takeover.
If he has no family, you can attempt to help him through this. What is his take on it all? If he has no issue continuing to pay but shouldn't be driving, focus on stopping the driving and perhaps MIL or someone can do the driving while the lease is still in place. He would still have to pay for it and have it maintained. Never really understood leasing - seems expensive, mileage is limited, you end up with nothing at the end of the lease!
I detest any car buying - with very few exceptions the whole process is distasteful! It isn't always the salesperson who is the dick. Others in the process can be jerks as well. The high pressure sales are nasty. When trying to find a car for my then 17yo son, we went together to find a good used one, preferably within a certain $ amount. I told the young sales guy we wanted a 4WD (for winter issues), don't care so much what it looks like so long as it runs good and is within X amount. He says he knows just the car and went off to move it up for us and presented us with an RX7!!! A co-worker told me we should have bought it as it was a unique 4WD RX7!!! Of course my son's eyes lit up, but NFW! I had to co-sign and told him NO. The sales pitch included Oh look it has passive restraints! Yeah, right. It likely would have been wrapped around a tree within the first week! When son tried to plead and I asked about having 12" snow while he's at work, he says I can pick him up. WHAT? I do that now, so why don't we just save the $ and not buy anything!! What an idiot salesman! Of all the places we went, HE was the one who kept calling us. No way would I buy anything from THAT clown!
And as far as complaining loudly as SFdaughter, recommends, YES, what a great idea, and clearly state painting a picture of the very real possibility of a car wreck with multiple fatalities and it coming out in the news on TV and newspaper about a demented 90+ yr. old having been leased a vehicle from SUCH AND SUCH dealership........ saying (to the dealership), WOW, what great publicity you would get !!!!!!
Oh and in my local area, there is a TV station that helps people resolve issues... it's Better Call Behnken. Maybe there is some type of service in the OP's area which could help with that.
The way a lease works the car is actually purchased from the dealer by the lease company. Even if the lease entity is the auto manufacture. THese people are difficult to deal with.
First call the dealership ask to speak to the General Manager or owner if it is a small dealer. ONLY speak to one of these 2 people. Plead your case. If you do not get satis faction I suggest you call your states attorney consumer protection unit or the Secretary of State consumer protection unit and plead your case. You can also contact the local TV station consumer reporter. THey love these stories. You can also consult with an attorney that has a Senior citzen practice.
They might contest dementia if father still driving so you would need to resolve that.
Good luck - hope they lose - there’s way too many preying on the elderly
FYI - a man we play bridge with bought his car outright as he was 86 & was worried what would happen if he couldn't pass his next driver's exam [here everyone over 80 does an exam every 2 years] & he didn't want the burden of a car he couldn't drive but had a lease on so he could sell one if he bought it
How do you spell 'bastard' ... Basically A Selfish Toad And Really Dumb .... if the shoe fits ...??? - good luck