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I am executor of my friend's estate. He is like a father to me and I have cared for him and helped him for years but we are not blood related. Anyway, my friend's adult son is almost in his 40's and still lives with his dad and does not work or help with anything. My friend does have a will naming me as executor and his son as one of the beneficiaries. He does not have much money and we will be lucky if the equity from the sell of his house covers his final expenses. I will be out of pocket these expenses until the house is sold and I can get reimbursed.


I am worried that the son will drag this out. Not move out of the house, etc. I know there are ways to fight this in court but is there a clause that my friend can include in his will to give a deadline for his son to move out and for the house to be on the market? Or anything similar that will provide clarification and a timeline?

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This is really an issue that should be addressed by a estate planning and/or elder attorney.    You could risk being accused of improper estate management by the son.   I would try to find an attorney who's experienced in contested wills or probate.  

And obviously don't mention this concern in front of the son, as it would give him grounds (in his own mind) to challenge you, either personally or legally.

Do this "by the book."
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Katefalc Nov 2021
And do it NOW. Attorney fees are expensive…. Have HIM contact the lawyer who set it up so you aren’t paying his attorney fees. Just be honest and tell him you thought about it and know it’s gonna get messy and you don’t want to be involved with his son
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My dad’s will stated that his house was to be sold as soon as possible after his death and that no relative could live there
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To be frank I would not serve in this capacity. When your friend is dead, if the son is still in the house and looks to be problematic I would leave the settlement of this "non-estate" in the hands of the state. It would simply mean going to court and saying you are unwilling and unable to serve as executor. This will mean appointment of an executor. Sounds as though you are correct. This small estate will be eaten up by the fees you would have to pay for a much NEEDED Trust and Estate Lawyer, and by any delays or counter suits by the son.
You might consider speaking with your friend NOW about your concerns, and explaining why you do not wish to serve. Why not tell him to appoint this son who he apparently likes well enough to have in his home and who realistically is now or will be his caregiver.
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Saunders22 Nov 2021
Agreed. We have had that conversation many times about getting his son on his feet now and having those hard talks with him now instead of waiting and making me do it for him later after he is gone. The son is no caregiver and cant take care of himself even..stays in his room all day doing nothing. I will keep pushing him to talk to his son now or i might have to rethink my position in it all and how much drama/family mess I am willing to be in the middle of.
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If the will is already done, to change it will require a codicil to be drawn up. Which means the atty who did the original will, or whomever has taken over the practice, needs to review & do the new paperwork with your friend, have a face-2-face, signatures, notary etc. Codicils happen a lot….. beneficiary’s die, assets get sold, so what’s in the old will has changed & a codicil drawn up to solve those hiccups.
BUT
what I’d be concerned about is if doing a codicils will actually start a hornets nest from the layabout son as to his not liking your involvement in his dads life now and in his life in the future as your the Executor.
SO….. personally I wouldn’t change anything; I’d leave it all exactly as the will states and then go Alva’s route and decline the appointment of you as executor. You do NOT have to be Executor.

If the old fellow knows Sonny is beyond problematic, that you’ve agreed to be his Executor, this probably gives him a real sense of relief & calm. He doesn’t need to know that you’ll decline it when that eventuality happens. That you right now in 2021 know that there’s nothing but debts, no preneed done and house that will likely be a difficult sale due to Sonny’s presence and (I’ll bet) decades of delayed maintenance, is really really beyond fortunate.

There have been countless posts of this site from a family member or family friend who were named Executor in a Will, & they go ahead and do it… they hire a probate attorney, get Letters Testamentary naming them & deal with banking changes, etc…. and quickly find out that it’s all negative, all debts & thier getting the debt collector calls, the house has major repairs that Realtors want done to make it “market ready”, that the neighbors who were ok on the house while the elder was alive now are free to vent about all the crap at the house and your getting those calls….

You already know “Someone” aka you is going to need to front $ to get things started. Cremation 3k, probate atty 3-8k, property costs (taxes, insurance, utilities) for at least a year as Sonny probably doesn’t pay a penny. Unless the elder has a life insurance policy naming you sole beneficiary &/or a bank account POD to you, that combined around 10k, it going to be on all you as Executor to cover & front all $, & hopefully house sells asap (& for beyond all tally of debts); you settle debts of the Estate, you are able to be reimbursed and paid an Executor fee and the balance distributed to the beneficiaries. Lots of your $ & time.

So you decline to be named. The Son probably will be appointed by the court to be “Dependent Administrator” of his dads estate. So all actions are court supervised. If there other kids from either the dad or the moms marriages, court will probably want a lineal heirship done to establish heirs and 1 of them becomes the Dependent Administrator. Your not blood so entirely out of this process. There are ways for probate court to deal with all this. And lots of states have timeframes on by when dates for probate to open & close out.

If your still waffling on all this, if he has at all been on any Medicaid programs since he was 55, even community based ones, Medicaid (MERP) is required to attempt a recoup of their costs paid from his Estate. And if he is at all delinquent on property taxes, it will have gone up for annual tax sale & possibly tax sale redemption. Both can be dealt with but a maze of paperwork. Often folks have no idea these are lurking in the background on settling an Estate.
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I so agree with Igloo that if it will bring peace to his heart then there is nothing you need do now. Involving yourself in the complicated relationship of this gentleman and his live-in son will cause him great pain and result in nothing good for him or for you. He already knows his son is very unlikely to change. There is no real estate to worry about here and the son can cause any executor great grief by simply suing and tying things up. Just await nature taking its course, and then resign as the executor; let the state handle it.
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Why is a 40 yr old not able to care for himself? Does he have mental or physical challenges? Does he receive Social Security Disability or SSI (Supplimental Security Disability)? Medicaid for health insurance? If he doesn't receive any of this and does fit the criteria for a Disabled person, I think ur friend needs to look into this for his son. SSD lawyers are not allowed to charge up front. They get paid from the retro money. It can take a year or more to get SSD. If you win, u receive a retro payment from the date of application. The lawyer gets a % of this. He can get housing based on income of on SSD.

If its just lazyness than I guess it doesn't bother ur friend his son will be homeless? Thats OK, he probably has tried to help son and not got anywhere with him. But you probably will have a hard time getting him to leave the house. Sounds like he couldn't keep it up anyway. Your friend may want to have his lawyer go over the Will and see if there is a way to make sure the house is sold and son needs to leave it.

I hope you realize that as Executor you do not spend your own money. Thats not how it works. Does ur friend not have an insurance policy? When my Mom passed, I did pay some out of pocket only because the house was up for sale. I unplugged all the appliances. Had a timer to turn on and off a lamp I had in the living room. I had the lawn man only mow when neccessary. I turned down the heat to 55°. I did not pay taxes or the water/sewage bill. (the water will be shut off eventually). The house did sell, not for much, and covered the tax lean and water bill. I did get my out of pocket back.
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Saunders22 Nov 2021
the son has no disability or illness...just lazy I suppose.
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In what health condition is your friend? Is the son mentally or physically disabled in some way which causes him not to be able to cope with life?

Your father figure friend should step up to help his own son if it’s the last thing he can do. That’s what a responsible father should do. If the son is really disabled, your friend should try to get the son in some government programs to receive help so he won’t be out on the cold street once his father goes to warm heaven. If he’s just lazy and never learns to stand on his own feet which means your friend has enabled his son all his life, then it’s time to use tough love approach to help him.

What your friend wants to do now is dumping the consequences of his parental failures on your lap to deal with after he’s gone. He has abdicated his responsibility as a parent.

If you want to help, then help him help his son to be on his own now.

Taking on the responsibility for his will is a really bad idea. Don’t do it.
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Katefalc Nov 2021
Agreed
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Nothing should be out of YOUR pocket. It should all come from the estate when the house is sold and should be clearly stated in the will that nothing comes from YOUR pocket. I’d get in touch with a good elder lawyer and have it set up now that the son has to pay his fathers final expenses with HIS inheritance. Why should YOU be paying anything for a non blood…non relative??
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igloo572 Nov 2021
“it should all come from the estate when house is sold”
Sounds great, problem is this is not realistic.
If there is no $, no reliable income via an asset owned by & within the Estate (in probate) for the Executor to draw from, then it’s going to fall to Executor to pay estates expenses until house sells. Hopefully the house sells for way beyond all the claims against the estate and all property costs and Act of Sale / Realtor costs so that the Executor is able to get a fee. But no guarantee 2 happen.

Utilities fully expect to be paid, if not, they will be shut off.
Tax collector expects to get paid, if not, property goes delinquent w/significant interest & possibly up for annual tax sale.
Insurance needs to be paid, if not, house becomes uninsured.
Should a fire happen, & it’s uninsured, the beneficiaries -as per will- can seek restitution from Executor for loss of anticipated inheritance (their % distribution), basically Heirs sue Executor.
For more fun in this, there seems to b heirs / beneficiaries beyond the son. If others are themselves expecting $$$ inheritance, OP will have to deal with all their noise & nonsense as well.

The OP (Saunders) already knows their friend has debt, has a home w/little equity and has a son living in the home who does NOT contribute financially and does NOT work. & OP has the vibe that the son likely to be difficult to move out of the home & not all kumbaya on them being the Executor.

OP cannot ask an elder law attorney to draw up or do anything.
It would HAVE TO be the old man who asks for this to be done and the old fellow has to be willing to sit at attorney office on his own & without prodding by OP to do any changes to his POA or his will. Ditto for old man’s banking or life insurance beneficiaries. If old man won’t, there is nothing absolutely nothing the OP can do about it. The only thing Saunders has control over is the ability to decline to be the Executor (or resign as a POA). Even if Saunders tell the old man now that he will not serve as Executor, the old man can still leave it written in his will that Saunders is his choice as Executor. OP can’t force a codicil to the will, or make Sonny pay for anything now or after his dad dies.

Situation is a tar baby, & you don’t want to be Br’ er Rabbit.
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Real estate agents fees, real estate lawyer fees, anything regarding the sale of the house after he passes will come from the proceeds of the sale.As Executor your job is to see that the terms of the will are carried out through proper probate protocol. A probate attorney will guide you (and his son) and will do a final official accounting according to the terms of the will.
All current expenses (mortgage, taxes, utilities, etc) should be paid through the father and son's existing assets. Regardless of your fears, it's the father's wishes that prevail. I suggest you have an open and honest discussion with father and son to clarify his wishes after he passes. In my opinion, no loving father will put his son out of the house he lived in if it can be avoided and as long as his son can continue to pay the expenses.
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igloo572 Nov 2021
40yr old Sonny cannot be forced to pay for anything. If the utilities, property insurance, credit cards, etc are all in the dads name, they are dads debts only now and debts of / claims against the Estate afterwards. Sonny not at all responsible. Even if Sonny 101% benefits from it, not his responsibility.

Whether or not Sonny has $ to pay, does not matter imo.
Sonny has to choose to pay on things owned by his dad & if he doesn’t, it is what it is.
The only way around this is if Sonny is disabled in some way so that there is a conservatorship or guardianship over him and they control the $ and pay for things on Sonny’s behalf.
If Sonny is a layabout leech, you can’t force him to pay or change.
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Its unclear could you explain are you wanting to be paid money for something?? You said your expenses are out of pocket, what are you referring to it sounds as if you expect this man who isn’t related to you to give you money?
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This sounds a bit strange to be honest. You say your not related to this person but your interested in knowing when he dies how soon his house will be sold. Is he in the dying process right now it sounds like your anticipating his death at any time.
Perhaps you could resign and not have the worry of how fast the house will sell after he dies, since your not a beneficiary of it your not locked in to staying on as executor
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JoAnn29 Nov 2021
"He does not have much money and we will be lucky if the equity from the sell of his house covers his final expenses."

OP is worried that the soon will hold up the sell of the house. The sell of the house will pay for funeral expenses and any debts still owed. OP is not making a profit here.
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Sounds Like a Lot of drama . Yes the son could fight to stay in the House if he is disabled . I wouldn't count On getting reimbursed either . His attorney can be executor .
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My DH was executor of his dad's estate. The disposition of all the minutiae took well over a YEAR. Probably b/c he was dealing with family and that's often just the worst.

He is so honest and wanted his YS and OB to see that he was handling this all with complete transparency--and he did, to the dime!

Yet--BIL had to have his nose in EVERYTHING and asked for a weekly accounting. AS executor, DH was entitled to $25 per hour for all the time he spent chasing the rabbits, so to speak. BIL blew a gasket and wouldn't 'let' DH (or me, as I was cleaning and 'flipping' dad's condo) have a cent for our time. Yet he sold both a rental property and his condo, took his 3% fee and nothing was said.

Both Dh and I worked our tails off to make sure that YS and BIL were 'happy'. They weren't. and to this DAY (18 years later!!) BIL will still ask questions about where 'this and such' went. It pretty much ruined my good feelings for my BIL. I do not trust him, nor like him much, he was so grasping and ungrateful.

I would recuse myself from your situation. Yes, you stand to inherit (sounds like that's a big 'maybe', actually) and trust me, this could get very ugly, very fast.

Dh is also executor of his mother's estate, but I have been told we have been written out of said will--so DH will once again work himself to a frazzle, but this time he will not stand to inherit a nickel. It will be the same--BIL will be hanging over our shoulders the whole time and we'll wind up with zero respect for him. AND no relationship at all.
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sp19690 Nov 2021
Your husband does NOT have to be the executor of his mothers estate. Why would he want to do all that work on an estate for free because a spiteful old woman who happened to give birth to him made him executor and gleefully revels in the fact that she cut him out of the will? What a sick and twisted old hag. If he does decide to be a doormat and be executor of the will he should take whatever financial cut he is entitled to per state laws.
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In my State Executors are entitled to 4% of the Estate. As the Estate goes up in Value the % gets less, so the minimum the Exector gets is 2%. I don't remember what the caps are but lets say the estate is worth 200k then its 4%, but 1 million would be 2%.

So Midkid, you husband is entitled to a % of the estate. And he should take it. If it were me though and I was not a beneficiary as a child, I would not be Executor. Husband could turn it down and let Probate assign someone else.
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Think you might be US based, but if you are in the UK be aware that there is a quirk in English and Welsh law that you can be named as an executor *without your knowledge or consent*, and if this happens to you, it is both difficult and expensive to recuse yourself from this role following the death of the person to whom the will relates. Point being, if you don't want a whole pile of **** to sort out, make very sure that you are not named as an executor. It can takes months or even years to sort out an estate if people don't play ball, and usually family is the root cause of things going sideways. Most extreme example I've come across is 22 years to settle everything, for an estate that was originally worth less than £500K. Unsurprisingly nothing left by the time everyone had finished arguing, it all went in legal fees.
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Please discuss this with an attorney that deals with estate planning in your location. I am not sure what the laws are about squatters' rights and his son will in effect be a squatter after his father passes.

All your costs should be covered by the estate.

Worst case scenario after your friend passes. Get in a realtor that makes and gives a check on the spot. He will tell the son when he needs to move out.
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My mother has a (somewhat) similar situation with one of our brothers living with her for many years with no plans to move out despite her nearing 90 and him nearing retirement. She maintains she doesnt want him living with her (only wanted to help him short-term) and under no circumstances is he to live there (rent or buy) if she vacated for a short term, moved or passed on. (He uses her house to sleep when not at work or with friends; he is not her caretaker and doesnt contribute any $ or much assistance.) She refuses to level with him about the future as she doesnt want to deal with his attitude. Other children have the executor and POA roles as well as guardian for another sibling (once our mother can no longer handle or passes). Her will pre-dated him moving in and is not clear regarding her wishes re the house. We told her she is setting us up to have to evict him and we may choose to disregard her wishes rather than do that. We also told her we may choose to give up our respective aforementioned roles if she doesnt take some accountability for the enabling which has led to this predicament. We ended up hiring a lawyer and the house was put into a into a trust effective immediately and at any point the trustee or co-trustee can deliver him a notice to vacate within X days and if he doesnt every month will cost him $Y. If he doesnt pay it comes out of his share of proceeds when the house is sold as does any costs associated with removing him from the house. The trust is clear none of her children or grandchildren can rent, buy or live in the house once she is no longer a resident. There is also a checking account set up in the trust to pay for housing-related expenses once our mother passes so the co-trustee doesnt have to come out of pocket for housing-related expenses. The notice can be delivered while our mother is still alive and living in the house. Our mother -- again looking to avoid confrontation -- didnt tell our brother about the trust, so one of us had to so he wouldnt be blind-sided...which wouldnt be fair. Realize this may seem harsh and/or isnt a totally comparable situation, but perhaps there is something to take away.
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igloo572 Nov 2021
Please pls pls look in detail at what assets were wholly titled in the Trusts name and if & how those assets generate “income” or if they are assets in stasis. A home tends to be in stasis unless it’s generating rental income. The attorney moving moms house immediately into Trust name is great as it totally removes it from being “owned” by Sister Suzy or layabout Bro Bob but it also might can create the issue that if $ is needed to support Trust assets, aka the house, neither Suzy, Bob, or whomever will pay a penny… becomes I don’t own anything why should I situation.

What seems to happen is that the elders home is titled into the Trust and nothing else is and elder uses their monthly income (like Social Security $ or a pension) or savings to pay for costs of asset (the house) titled into the Trust. So elder takes $ from her savings account for new roof; writes a check from personal checking account in January for property taxes, ditto for homeowners insurance, utilities, etc. It’s exactly what mom was doing before the Trust and she just continues doing it. Goes on for years just fine. Then mom dies & mom’s monthly income die as well.

A Trust like this can find itself with no $ of its own to pay costs of assets owned by & titled to the Trust. A Trust can defund (same scenario can happen w Life Estates). Normally ”Trusts” have real $$$, 800K/1M tends to be the floor for doing a Trust as there's going to be investments churning away in the Trust overseen by a financial advisor; and they do a planned defund when the times comes. A home as the only thing in the Trust will become sticky to deal with.

To keep this from happening, there needs to be something(s) titled into Trust that makes $. That provides for income to feed the costs of assets owned by the Trust. Like investments or stocks owned by it and dividends paid into it. Does not have to be the 800k/1M range but a bank account that for sure will have 10-20k POD to the Trust. Or have a fully paid life insurance policy with the Trust as the only beneficiary. All so that Trust has $ to pay taxes, insurance, maintenance, whatevers on that house for a year or two till house gets eventually sold.

Once elder dies the property taxes will likely increase significantly. Could triple. Homeowners insurance canceled as homeowner dead, so vacant dwelling policy needed or investment / rental property insurance. Insurance will be lots more. Try to figure out what house will cost for 1-2 yrs after death and have at least that much $ as an asset of the Trust.

Imo you especially want to make sure property taxes are paid. There is a whole cottage industry of folks who specifically bid on Trusts and Life Estates property tax delinquency. They are not about bidding on parcels for the hefty interest paid but are focused on redemption of the tax sale lien.
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I think only an eldercare specialist can answer this question. Don't guess - get professional advice what to do. This is a hot issue that needs someone who knows their stuff.
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Saunders22: Imho, perhaps you should retain an elder law attorney.
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This is a really bad and rather odd situation. I think a lawyer will have to be involved in order for a clause and a deadline to be included in the will.
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I have ended up being the executor for three trusts, and they were very carefully drawn out. It was STILL difficult. My mother's was one, a married couple (family friends) were the other two. I would not do it again, and yes, I got the fees. It was not worth the money. (Actually we are in the fourth YEAR because the husband had a SPIA annuity that became "set in stone" upon his death. The fifth and final payout was this May and so after filing taxes for this year I can finally finish writing the checks -- I did distribute the bulk of the estate already because it was only fair.) But I would NEVER agree to helping in a low-value estate where I would have to be paying out of pocket with the *possibility* of being paid back
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igloo572 Nov 2021
Out of curiosity, did the Hubs do the SPIA to enable his wife to be able to qualify for Medicaid? Like too many joint assets so he moved a huge chunk to become his annuity & voila! she’s ok for Medicaid. SPIA if your state allows them, imo, are actually good legit Medicaid planning but you gotta outlive the annuity, you need to be somewhat younger. I hate, hate, hate annuities as imo there’s lots of deliberate misunderstandings in their “sell”. But a SPIA is a really special creature that can make Medicaid eligibility happen for 1 and have the other retain assets.
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If the son is one of beneficiaries but there will be no money anyway then get your friend to rewrite his will making the son the executor. If there is nothing for him to leave to people then why take on the job. If he wishes to leave other bequests that would be covered as well as son then how about gifting them now? He needs to have a valuation of what he is leaving so you can see if it is sensible for you to be involved,
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It may be best to speak with an estate attorney about this. A social worker in your area might be able to set your friend up with a pro bono attorney, if needed.
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My situation had a few similarities and my dad's lawyer included a clause meant to make sure I was not out of pocket; perhaps this will be relevant.

'It is my wish that my daughter, _____, be reimbursed for any expenses she may incur relating to my estate, included but not limited to travel and accommodation expenses should any such expenses exceed executors expenses to which she is entitled.'

You see, I live in the US and Dad was in Canada (obviously during Covid the cost of quarantining in order to visit him was very expensive) He was also not a man of means. At 93 much of the estate had already gone to paying his and my mom's expenses so he wanted to make sure I didn't have to rely on the decency of brother's that lived 2 hours away and didn't visit for the last 18 months of his life.

Hope this is helpful
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Pressurized Nov 2021
The trouble is that if the money isn't there he will be out of pocket. We can write all the clauses we like, but if the money isn't there, it just isn't.
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I am not sure what state you are in as that makes a difference. I would have some one else as executor.
If the son is capable let it be him. You can decline to
serve. Do not advance money to the estate when the
house must be sold to be re imbursed. In my state there
is no good provision for putting a beneficiciary out of his
inherited house. I have several pending right now and
both have held up sales for a year. Eviction court will not
order them out of their own home. Their failure to pay taxes may take 3 years to be ordered out. Probate court
does not seem to have the power. The only way is to file a Sales case or sometimes a partition suit which is more expense and takes time. Based on what I have been thru in the last 45 years, I would decline and walk
away. You are entitled to an Executor's fee - but it is taxable income to you.
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First, the estate, not the executor is responsible for the funeral costs. However having said that, he should be preplanning and paying for his funeral now, while he is alive.

I have seen Wills that allow someone to live in the family home for a period of time after the death. Mum's Will used to say that my step dad could live in her house for 12 months after her death. He has since predeceased her and she has updated her Will.
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There certainly won't be any kind of clause that can't just as easily be ignored as any notice to quit that you can issue to the son after death, and enforcing it would be just as problematic as any other eviction.

The time to get the issue sorted out is now. Are your friend and his son on good terms?
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As the executor, it should not be your problem as to how the funeral is paid for. Your responsibility is to split up the leftover assets. Your friend's children will be the ones to go to a funeral home and figure out how to pay. If you decide to go to funeral home, that would be a totally separate matter from the house or other assets.

At the time you assume your role, after his death, you will probably have to file appropriate eviction forms in your county if he does not vacate by date you give him in writing - so you can sell the house. I see no reason your friend can't add an amendment to his will that clearly states, house must be vacated withing XX number of days after my death so it can be sold and proceeds distributed according to division discussed in my will. That would make it clear to everyone involved and give you a little bite if you have to evict. Since there is very little equity in the home - not paying the house payment between vacate and selling is going to eat into distributions funds as well. If son drags it out - he loses the house anyway and there won't be any equity to pocket.
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One thing I picked up on was "My friend does have a will naming me as executor and his son as one of the beneficiaries." Are you one of the beneficiaries? If so, that's great, and how many more are there, and what is their relationship to the man? Just don't put out your own money for his final expenses, especially if the house won't cover it. The son could drag this on and on and it may take years for him to leave, especially in these times of covid-19. A clause could help, but not a guarantee. If your friend has a little bit of money, have him pre-pay for arrangements so you don't have to put this out.
When my step dad was getting close to the end, I did research, as the executor, into what different companies charge for cremation. I found one who did it for less than $700.00. I had to fill out papers online and the arrangements ahead of time. No meeting in person to be pressured to upgrade to fancy, unnecessary options. When he passed away, the man who came to take his body from the NH could not have been more professional. He came dressed in a nice suit, brought a flag because dad was a veteran, draped his body, and they wheeled him out very carefully & respectfully. I just went to their place of business to pick up his ashes 3 weeks later. This did not cost thousands of dollars. I will do the same thing when my mother passes away. The biggest difference I could see was not getting the ashes back within a week.
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as executor, you can file eviction once the court sends you the document saying that you are approved as executor.
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