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My sister will not allow the hospital or nurse to provide siblings information on my dying mother's health condition. Now she wants us to schedule 1 visit per day per sibling. The doctor said my mom is dying, we want to go see her before she dies to say our good bye. My sister the POA wants the siblings visit restricted to only one per day. There are six of us, she may die anytime. Can she do this?

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No one, including doctors and caregivers, can pinpoint the time and date of death.

Given Covid, I can see why your sister may not want a deluge of family.

Regardless of Covid,
If your sister has been a primary caregiver, you should respect her. She knows most about your mom’s wishes and daily routine. She is probably trying to keep the environment as calm as possible for your mother.

You should also think of your sister’s feelings. Her nerves are Certainly rattled.

Having been around multiple people at end of life, I can also say I would not want crowds of people descending on me in my last days. Commotion, noise, chaos, crying, and even apathy would probably all be displayed.

If you have all been visiting regularly this should not be an problem.
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why can't one person visit in the morning and one in the evening for the first day, then do the same for the next 2 days and hopefully she will be around for all of you to say your goodbyes.  I don't know if she can do that or not, but I pray that she will at least let you visit even if for 10 minutes.  wishing you luck and peace
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FloridaDD Nov 2020
Maybe caregiver sister is exhausted.  Maybe the 6 siblings have given her NO help while mom was sick.
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Short answer, yes, if she is the medical POA. She is charged with making decisions intended in the best physical/medical interests of your mom.
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Her house, her rules. With all sis is going through her not wanting a giant stampede of potentially covid carrying family members in her home makes a lot of sense.
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Imho, almost a week's worth (at 6 people) of visitors is a lot. Prayers sent.
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I Have had my mom and my father-in law live with us over the last 15 years, so my husband and I both had closer relationships with our parents than our other siblings. My father-in-law, once his health started deteriorating, made my husband in charge of all of his decision making. He got a diagnosis of cancer in January of 2016 with only a few months to live. We live on the west coast while rest of our/his family was all back east. We set money aside to have them all get to come out and see him before the last month when he got worse. It was better and less stressful for all that he could have his wishes met and he passed peacefully at home in the middle of the night. It was very hard at the end, though, especially on my husband. We had hospice, but near the final week, they predicted he would be gone in a few days. My husband was highly affected by it all, so much so that we almost sent him to hospice for a respite, but I talked him out of it, because if by chance at hospice, he would have probably died alone at the hospice, which he did not want. So we ended up keeping him at home with family and he died in comfort of home. We also take care of my mother post stroke which left her left side paralyzed. So I have been taking care of her for the last 4 years now. While she likes to get out of the house maybe once week, less with Covid restrictions, now, and she loves seeing her Grandchildren, its best to do lunch or small get together for a couple hours, and then they all go home, It wears her out though, and she is super-tired the next few days after an outing or visit. Before her stroke, my mother was a very active Grandma, a 2nd mom who loved taking all her Grandkids to watch on the weekends, running around town going to their ball games, taking them to the movies etc, but the stroke affected her brain, so that even though she wanted to do things, her body, just wouldn't let her do them. She gets tired very easily. Our family, my husband and our sons, oldest grandchildren helped take care of them, and I don't hold grudges against any siblings because they all have young children of their own, who didn't get my mom helping out through their children's childhood. I had my mom almost my whole children's childhood to help us, and my siblings did not. But we do have the COVID restrictions and health guidelines, now, so if your mom is taking care your mom in sister's home, I would think ultimately it would be her decision. The Nursing homes are doing that, also, so in a Care home, the restrictions may already sadly be in place. My Grandma passed a few months ago, and the Aunt and my cousins that live with her did the same thing, and because of my caregiving duties, we could understand and respect their and Grandma's wishes. I would also maybe see if you can face-time or do video/zoom visits. If she was in a longterm care hospital, that's a lot of what they have been doing anyway.
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I looked after my Mom for over 20 years without sibling help and as she came closer to her final days, she was so easily stressed out and exhausted by anything different in her schedule and would be agitated and not able to sleep after visits from family. I asked family to only visit for very short times and not at the same time to keep Mom calm. One per day would have been too much at that point. Family who are not caregivers are not usually proxy to all the needs of the dying parent. This could be a reason for you to consider. Why she is not allowing siblings to know her medical information is puzzling but has anyone asked her why? By the end of Mom's life I was exhausted in every way and unless you have been a 24/7 caretaker it is impossible to understand- be kind to her and ask questions to find out the "why's" is my suggestion. She has watched the decline and is mourning as she has watched day after day the slow loss of the parent's abilities etc., on top of her own total exhaustion. Be kind and compassionate to her as well as your parent.
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What support have you offered your sister? Caring for a dying parent is overwhelming.
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I hear your frustration! You deserve to know what the medical team has to say about your Mom's current condition.
I totally get where your sister is coming from too! I was caregiver for my Mom for 1 1/2 yrs.
As the primary caregiver I was mentally & physically exhausted all the time. My mood was up and down and the last thing I wanted was family coming whenever they wanted and over-staying their welcome.
Your sister is trying to find and keep a peaceful routine for her household and taking care of herself throughout this stressful time. Respect her wishes even if they seem rigid.

God’s blessings on your journey~
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I feel bad for you and your siblings, but it is your sisters home and therefore her rules. Can you imagine having five siblings, possibly their spouses and children - all wanting to come in and out of your home for who knows how many days/weeks/months? Even in normal times - I can’t imagine that type of disruption. And with COVID - we are not in normal times.

As far as the updates on medical - you sister is in the wrong. While she has medical POA - you all deserve updates on a regular basis. Maybe the Hospital or Doctors office has a social worker that could help intervene on your behalf?
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Take the legalities of being POA out of the mix. Your mom is in your sister's home so sister (and maybe a little outside help) is providing her 24 hour care. I'm not sure why she has limited the info being shared about her condition - is sis possibly upset that there wasn't much interest in the condition or assistance to her previously? Sometimes a 24/7 caregiver who received little to know help could feel like they don't really need any comments, suggestions, or sudden interest visits at this point. Only you know about this history, so I can't really comment about that.

5 other people coming and going for the days until mom passes can be quite hectic for sister. Extra commotion, talking, etc that perhaps she just can't handle right now. It is also disruptive to the patient - changing the normal daily routine and activity around them. Sis also would have concerns about bringing covid into the home.

People are very limited to patients who are at the very end of life in hospitals. My brother passed in July not covid, but very unexpected) - his wife allowed in at the very end. Two siblings allowed in for a very brief period. Many folks got no visitors at all when it was covid related. Sis could have concerns about bringing the virus into her own home. Six siblings could create an issue with everyone staying far apart.

Maybe talk to her about 2 at a time for brief period - ask her to set a visitation time frame. Ask her what any of you can do for her.
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Whether your sister has the legal clout to do this or not depends on the type and the stipulations included in her POA.

But you would be selfish and stupid to ignore her valid concerns about how much stimulation your mother is able to cope with.

Maybe ask if it could be made to work if you visited in pairs and kept the noise down. And keep the visits short.

I'm very sorry for what the family is going through, I hope you're taking care of one another.
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worriedinCali Nov 2020
Sister has the legal clout to do this because it’s her house. She doesn’t have to allow her siblings inside. It would be a different story if she was taking care of mom in moms house.
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Legally, a power of attorney does NOT give an individual the authority to restrict visitation for a person! Only a Court Appointed Guardian has the authority to do this and only when it specifically states that power in the guardianship document.

If your mom is wanting to see people she has the right to do so and your sister must allow this if she is following the legal guidelines set forth in a power of attorney.

The only way you would be able to get information on your mom's health is if you are listed on the power of attorney, HIPPA release or your mom gives permission to the doctor for them to speak with you

Where is your mom? If she is in a hospital or nursing home they should know the legalities and allow your visits. If she is living with your sister then I would recommend reaching out to an advocate to intervene and speak to your sister on your behalf.

I am so sorry you and your siblings are going through this! Keep us updated!
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Cschraub Nov 2020
Mom lives with the sister. The sister owns her house and therefore can restrict any/all access. Unless there is suspected abuse, even the authorities will not intervene.
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Your sister is totally reasonable in her restrictions & allowance of the visits of her siblings. In caregiving there is usually a round the clock routine one has to make in caring for a loved one... not only that but caregiving in & of itself is highly stressful!
My mom has Dementia so it is very important to stick to routine, If not she can become agitated & unruly. My Mom’s Dr. ordered a nurse & therapists to come to our home 3-4 times a week, 1 hr for each...that was a total wipe out...
In caregiving I have become temperamental & moody.
My Sister told me I have a bad attitude, Smh. I told her until, she cares for Mom from the moment she opens her eyes in the morning to when she closes them for sleep at nights, (if she sleeps), she had no room to judge my temperament.
When ppl ‘step in’ that have not helped care for the LO it can offset the routine..even if on deathbed. There’s still care that needs to be had.
Abide by your sisters wishes.. she probably could’ve used the help to give herself a sanity break when your Mom wasn’t on her deathbed.
Sorry, but there may even be a bit of resentment from your caregiver sister but otherwise she’s being totally reasonable.
GodSpeed...
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I think 1 visitor per day is reasonable.
I am guessing mom is on Hospice correct? If so the Hospice Nurse can inform your sister of signs to look for that indicate death is much closer. Maybe at that point she could relax a bit more and allow more visitors BUT it also depends on her family and who she is living with. Do you and all your siblings self isolate? By allowing all of you into the house would she be putting her immediate family at risk? Would she be putting herself at risk if she is sole caregiver? Would she be putting mom at risk if you were all in the same room at the same time?
I am sure that you would want to remove masks. I am sure you would want to give mom a hug and a kiss. I am sure that you would want to sit and hold her hand. EACH of these contacts places your mom at risk, places your sisters family at risk and places each of the siblings at risk.
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If mom is in sister's home, sister doesn't need a POA to decide on visitors - especially during this year with COVID-19. Better to talk to sister about how she is coping with this - pandemic and mom dying - and how you can help her.

In my experience as an RN, most dying patients have a type of "death plan" that they follow. Those that need to say good bye to everybody will wait until all good byes are accomplished. Those who need reassurance that their tasks, pets, loved ones will be cared for will wait until they can get those reassurances. Folks that need special religious ceremonies - last rites or visit from a pastor - hang on until those are finished. Some need to have privacy and wait until everybody in the room leaves. There is one other "type" that your sister may need to know about... some people want all their loved ones gathered around when they pass on. Please feel free to show her my response and talk about how to accomplish this.

Talk with mom about what is important to her when you visit. If she is alert, she will tell you what is important to her. If she is comatose, tell her you love her and that it is OK to let go.
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I would think your sister as POA Can Do This.

Even if she can't, it would take way too long to do something about it legally.

Maybe she thinks it would be too much on your mom to have everyone show up at once.

You should visit as soon as you can.
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One visit per day per sibling is five visits to your sister's home per day. This is a lot during a huge Covid-19 spike while she is caring for someone full-time. I understand that you may want to stay in her house 24-hours a day to be close to your mother, but put yourself in your sister's place. Would you want 5 siblings underfoot constantly, criticizing every decision you've made in the last few months, demanding to be fed, probably reverting to their childish behavior, and expecting you to rise above it all, settle all disagreements, and grieve in a way that is above reproach. No? Then give her a break.
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Whoever makes medical decisions for her can make her a NO PUB and restrict visitors.
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I believe that if your mother were in a hospital or rehab facility there would be a similar restriction
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My mom passed away last year and the only thing I would've done differently as POA would be to have been less generous with information and visits. It created the perfect opportunity for criticism (of me) and medical interference that caused my mom physical and mental pain and A LOT of emotional stress for me. My goal was to keep the channels of communication open, but it backfired. I rarely speak with sis now.
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This sounds reasonable. Caregiving for the dying is very high stress. I’m so sorry for your pain. However, please be supportive to your sister. I had to limit info to my dying dad’s siblings, because incorrect information would have been posted all over social media. I felt like I needed to protect my dad and myself from a potential circus. I pray you and your siblings have a meaningful goodbye time with your mom. This is such a hard time for your entire family.
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You may want to check out the type of PoA that she has. Is it financial or healthcare? Some ppl just say they have PoA but do not understand the different types. If financial, she cannot stop you from visiting mom. But if healthcare, then yes.
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FloridaDD Nov 2020
May not be true.  Please note mom is living in the sisters home.   Pretty certain I can decide who and when can visit in MY home
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Its so hard dealing with a dying person especially if its a close family member. Id like to know if your sister was the only one who took it upon herself to care for your mom. This has happened to me recently with my aunt. No one would help me at all. I wasnt the closest relative mile wise either to my dads sister who was mentally disabled. I loved her to pieces and she was alone with very little ssi. Had help with cnas thanks to a elderly neighbor and one other elderly family friend. I had to pay for everything after she passed away and before. So if no one else helps I totally feel how your sister feels. Im going through the same thing with my 90 year old mom. My brother is no help at all and much closer than i am. Totally self centered. Anyway if you have been there for your sister and mom you probably would have a legitimate reason to be upset. Life is too short. Dont wait til someone is on their deathbed to show any concern. Be there even if its a phone call. Be supportive to the caretaker. Its hard work mentally and physically.
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Are you sure your mother wants you to say “goodbye” to her? I MOST CERTAINLY do not want people saying goodbye to me when I die.

We are all so different. I’m heartbroken that I can’t see my LO while she still recognizes me, but I AM overjoyed that since she’s recovered from Covid, I HAVE been able to say that I loved her and would see her again as soon as I could. Then her residence entered lockdown for a second time.
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If it is one visit per day/per sibling, that is perfectly reasonable. That means that you each have to schedule a time with her to come see Mom, and Sis doesn't have to deal with all of you at once while trying to keep Mom calm and comfortable.

If she is saying only one visit per day, that is another matter and means that there is a possibility that some of you might not get to see Mom and tell her in person you love her before she passes.

Is this a new rule? Have you all been helping care for Mom and visiting all along?

Please try to empathize with Sis too. This is a tough job physically and emotionally. She may be trying her best or she may be showing resentment at carrying the full burden. Figure out which one and act appropriately. Sis will be here long after Mom is gone. We all should know how precious family relationships are and that they can be fragile in times of stress. We all make mistakes and misinterpret at times, so try to give Sis credit for care and be supportive.
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Dont no wat your your family are going through I have POA my mum's wishes r has follows they havnt been near since I've been ill they don't phone or visit no point in them coming wen I die and I tend to agree but I shall let them visit just so I can tell them just how she felt I personally never want them or need them in my life jealousy is vile among sibblings
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Theshrimp Nov 2020
Sibling rivalry is definitely vile. My MIL shared a lot of documents a few years ago and insisted that WE move forward with a POA that is irrevocable. I clearly understand, and like us, my husband doesn’t want that jealousy in our lives.
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While I find the POA is leaning a bit too far in her authority, however, as a previous POA I had that right to refuse the hospital or nurses to restrict information to specific people or none at all. I had only 1 person this restriction was given to. However, this was also what my mom requested. I didn't restict others. Due to COVID-19 situation restrictions are also set for hospitals. Regrettably, even if you were permitted by the POA, there is a 99% chance other members may not get to see mom before she passes. Many people have suffered the same situation whereas family died, no funerals and more. Check with the hospital and see what their rules are for Covid-19, and if allowed, show up at hospital. Best wishes.
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You say one visit per day per sibling, and there are 6 of you? That is alot of visits, but I understand you all want to see her. I agree with the advice to take some food, offer to help in some way. Your sister is probably stressed out too.
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Power of Attorney means just what it says. Unless the POA has restrictions as to what it gives her control of.
Your option here is to get her to reason with you. What is her explaination of the 1 sibling per day thing?? regardless of how ill or fragile your Mother is 1 person pre day seems obsurd.
or contact Social services to see if they will intervene.
Take her to court.
Or live with it.
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pamzimmrrt Nov 2020
She says one visit per day per sibling,, not one visit per day
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