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Dad, 91, has never asked me to plan for his estate before. To me that's his responsibility. He had gone to see his banker wanting to find a way that I can pay the bills and mortgage while I'm settling his estate.


Best thing I come up with is to make his checking acct (that all his bills and mortgage are autopaid from) and his savings, joint accounts with my name on them. He says that doesn't work because when Mom passed he had to wait to access her accts that he says were joint. We are in Texas. But I googled it and every article says that with a Joint acct when one person passes the other person retains full and sole ownership of the acct. This would solve the issue.


I have lived at home for 3 years and helped take care of them, Mom passing in April. His wish is that when he passes I'd be able to stay here until the estate is settled without spending my own money, I can't afford to be here on my own to be honest.


So do I understand this properly?


Thanks

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Joint tenancy with right of survivorship instead of joint tenancy. The right of survivorship should transfer to you outside probate. Some banks also have TOD transfer on death. Ask the bank which they recognize and what they need signed. Medicaid will treat the addition of you to accounts as gifting, so if that’s a consideration talk with a lawyer.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thanks, thats what we decided, or rathe what dad decided. The accounts are POD to me and we will be either adding me to the deed with ROS or there is something Texas and a couple other states do that passes the house to me when he passes. Sadly, I have seen mention of medicaid and gifting but I have no idea what that is. I do plan on a visit with an estate attorney soon. I have a full page of questions for the atty and the banker.
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My name was on Moms account and Medicaid never questioned it. It was Moms money. I was on it so I could pay the bills.
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Invisible Sep 2018
But was it joint? I'm on Dad's account but not as a joint owner. So I can pay his bills as POA but if he passes, the account goes into the estate. I feel vulnerable.
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I agree that medicaid will view this as gifting so be careful. Although the plan to keep our parents at home, something can happen at the blink of an eye that can turn every plan upside down in a split second..... so before you do anything at the bank, I would speak to a recommended elder attorney on this issue.
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My name was put onto my father's checking & savings accounts right after my mother passed - the bank VP suggested it and made the changes.

I had no trouble accessing any accounts after he passed 7.5 years later. And I was able to settle the estate. You will have to do Probate and can use his monies. I was told to continue to pay the mortgage but at Probate I learned I was not supposed to by the Judge. She said that there was no money mentioned in the will and both Dad's accounts became mine, legally, the day he passed. The Judge said that I was not responsible to pay Pop's mortgage.

I don't know who you should speak with but 2 lawyers told me that I had to pay the mortgage so I did. Until Probate, which was a year later, when the Judge asked me why I did it. Everything got messed up because of me paying - the bank holding the mortgage didn't file a lien with the estate because payments weren't in arrears. Crazy.
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JoAnn29 Sep 2018
I was told by Moms realtor that I needed to keep the taxes up on Moms house to sell it. As long as Mom had money, I did it but when she went on Medicaid her money was gone. Here in NJ taxes are the highest in the nation. Being retired, I can just afford mine let alone Moms too so I stopped paying. I was told long ago, I was not responsible for Moms bills or debts.
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Just realize, when Dad passes his SS and any pension he may have stops. You will not have them to help offset bills.

Does Dad have a Will in place, if not and he can make informed decisions, then get one done. This will make Probate a lot easier. If he dies with no will, then the state controls the situation.

Our neighbors were in foreclosure 2 yrs before the bank evicted them. So, if Dad passes and you can't pay mortgage and taxes it will be a while before your evicted. I just heard of a couple who continued to pay taxes but not their mortgage knowing it would take the bank a couple of years before they evicted them.

Probate should not take that long if a will is in place. You will just need to show that all debts have been satisfied. Follow Dads wishes. If you can't afford the house, then sell it. Then Probate can be closed.
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Invisible Sep 2018
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Dimeolas,
Yes, you are correct. No what your dad is telling you isn't true.
When you have a joint account, when one passes the other is automatically sole owner.
Im going through this right now.
If you dont have your name on his account as “joint”, the account with his name only will go into probate for the estate. Unless, he puts you as beneficiary. Then you will have access to the account but you will have to take down the death certificate after he has passed, to the bank, fill out paperwork etc.

A joint account is also guarenteed that the money cant be considered part of “estate funds”. This means that you will ONLY be able to pay bills for the estate with it, any money left over goes to the estate in probate.
With a joint account or you as beneficiary, you can do what you want with the money and the court cant stop you. If the bank account goes into the estate, you have to keep records and be accountable for everything you spend from that bank account.
Also, my advise to you, have your dad appoint you as administrator or exeutor of his estate, now. Otherwise, you have to be court appointed after he passes. Which can take a lot of time. The judge can deny you. Then you have to get a lawyer to fight for you. Do it now. It will save you a MASSIVE headache later on.

Be aware!
Everything needs to be on paper! After they are gone there is no more “he said” My dad said a lot of things before he passed but nothing was ever put on paper, so there was no way to “prove” to the court anything he told me before he passed away.
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When my friends with dementia issues made me their durable power of attorney, I went with them to the bank to have the papers notarized there, so the bank people met me then. They were relieved someone was able to step in an manage their finances. I sign the checks and put in parenthesis POA after my name. I am also executor of their estate when that time comes. I also had all their mail sent to my address so I could catch any bills and the phony come-ons that they were being bombarded with and couldn't figure out what to do about. The wife has since passed and everything was held jointly, so the husband had it all. He is living in a memory care apartment and I continue to pay all his bills, making sure not one cent comes to me. I don't have to account to anyone with this arrangement, but act as though I do. The only money that leaves the bank is to pay a documented bill. Any check to him that comes in the mail is deposited to his account in its entirety. This system has worked very smoothly the 5 years it has been in effect. The biggest project was emptying out their townhouse and selling it, which took about 2 1-2 years. I have other things in my life to manage and pay attention to, so I didn't put any pressure on myself to get it done quickly. There was plenty of money in their accounts to ease the pressure on this. Once sold, their townhouse is paying another 20 months of memory care fees. The husband is physically healthy at age 92, but can't remember hardly anything from one minute to the next. He is intelligent and coherent, but without that memory, could not begin to function on his own. We have been friends for almost 50 years and I am grateful we can still maintain this friendship. We joke about being "brothers of another color" since he is a black man and I am a pale Swede.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Brothers of different mothers we used to say. God bless ya for being there. Luckily dad is in pretty good shape and pretty sharp of mind. He has all his bills auto from his checking so he doesnt have to worry. I know this house will take months to clean up, empty out and sell. What we are trying to set up if it works will make things much easier. At this point I have almost a page of questions and research. But I am also studying for my first IT certification and everything is pushing me late for it. Im not doing well at a balance. I have to get on with it however as I will be unemployed until at least the first cert and maybe the second and possibly a two year degree if it works out.
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Be sure you are on the bank account as an "or" joint owner. That gives you immediate access to the account both now (while Dad is still living) and immediately following his death, with no necesity of proving his death. An alternative is to title the bank account as "TOD" (transfer on death) so that you have ownership following his death, upon proof he has died (i.e., you have to show the bank the death certificate first).

On small accounts, there is little risk by putting your name on a parent's bank account as joint owner, but if you are sued or divorced, that money may be at risk, unless and until you can prove that money originated from your father and not you.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you,
he has designated his bank accts as POD with my name as beneficiary. His banker says that when I show them the DCert they will close his accts and mail me a check. The issue I see now is that I will be still living in his home getting it ready for sale and looking for my own place. Since all his bills inc mortgage are auto taken from his checking acct and they close that acct....I would be scrambling to setup a new acct and changing the bills to pull from that acct and hoping the check comes before the bills. I would really need them to keep that acct open and really need them to move his other accts into that acct.
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I am not an attorney but what I do believe when someone dies and bills need to be paid is that you get a death certificate from the County Clerk where you live - this is where you take the will and other documents and they issue a death certificate. You take that to the places where money was held by the deceased. Then you can take l00% of all funds and put them into NEW 'ESTATE OF (NAME)' ACCOUNT. Then out of that account, you pay all bills. DO NOT USE YOUR MONEY _ it will complicate things down the line. Call your local county Probate Office and they can help you with what you need to do.

Another thought is that if he is still alive and has money in the original joint accounts with his deceased wife, you could obtain a Power of Attorney so you would have access to the accounts in case he can't do it himself. POA stops on death and that is when you need to show you are the Executrix of the Will and must open an estate account to pay all bills. I would suggest calling an elder attorney as to the best situation where you live to avoid problems.
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ThereIsNoTry Sep 2018
This makes too much sense to be true! LOL
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My own experience is that Banks (or their staff) act differently irrespective of what the law says. I have known banks to refuse to allow access to a joint account by the survivor who now owns it legally, and banks who have allowed withdrawals from an account in the sole name of the deceased if it was under a certain amount. Banks who have allowed money for the funeral account, banks who wouldn’t. My only suggestion is not to accept the answer from the clerk on the desk, go to the manager, and say you will go to head office if you get an answer that you know goes against the law on a joint account.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you,
Dad has a good banker that he has been with for many years and he trusts him. I like the guy myself. When the time comes they will honor the law or there will be legal action. Everything is pretty cut and dried so i dont expect any problems. But if needed I'm not shy about getting an atty and aggressively seeking justice.
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If you have the time to work with this, look into a trust. A good estate lawyer (not on that does lunch seminars) should be able to set this up. It makes the whole situation MUCH easier. We did this about 4 months before my husband passed, and I have been able to deal with everything as trustee.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you,
What e have been doing is setting up all his assets to pass without the need for probate. All his bank account have been designated POD, so that when he passes they will revert to me. The house will be set up to do the same. I've found two different ways to do this in Texas but want/need to get legal advice first as i've read that if you dont set it up perfectly you have alot of trouble. The car will have my name on the title also and the last thing which I have no clue is household possessions. Is the furniture etc included in the house or are they separate. making a list of questions for the attorney.
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contact an elder law attorney immediately they can answer your questions
do not wait
I contacted one and thanks heavens I did in my state you can have a quick pro quid deed that if he had gone on Medicaid I would not have lost half of the house
sadly he died unexpectedly, but we did have a will in place
does your dad have a will for you you to inherit the house also to leave you any IRA or any other money
it won’t be cheap but I would have lost half of 300K and his money from his IRA
you need expert help to answer your questions
only an ELDER LAW ATTORNEY can answer your questions as a friend found a regular attorney can not know the answers
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you,
yes, looking for someone to talk to and making a list of my questions. His financial affairs are relatively simple and he is debt free except for the mortgage on the house. Praying he doesnt have any medical emergencies. But we will get through whatever comes.
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When my husband died I was responsible for thousands of dollars for his medical bills
youcshould not be responsible for your dads
butxaga n see an elder law attorney about having a joint account
ifcyou have your money 💰 neither can you be responsible for his bills?????
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thanks Bailey,
Yes my money is separate in all cases. I believe the most anyone could do is make a claim on his estate. Thankfully he is in pretty good health and as far as I know his only debt is the refinance on the house which will be paid upon its sale.
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This is probably not a problem with your dad, but be careful if he opens a credit card that is linked to the account. I was joint on my mom's account and didn't know that she had opened a bank credit card. I had to continue payments on the credit card after her death (she had made some foolish choices at the end) as, when she opened the bank card, it showed my name too even though I was not required to be notified of the card. The other credit cards she had opened up were locked at her death as she was the only one on them.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you,
Mom before she passed this year had told me she thought dad had secret card accts along with other things. I found out that she was suffering from dementia. I havent sen any signs of dad and c cards so I think we're ok. But believe me I keep an eye out for him. I hope it never comes to a point where we have to sit down and have that talk.
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If you have any siblings, that is a very bad idea. I’m from Texas, too. With a joint account, the assets pass directly to you upon his death. The other kids have no legal right to the money. We lived thru this when my MIL died. My husband did the honorable thing, but many others don’t. Just get a durable power of attorney and authorizations to sign on his account.
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thanks Kat,
We did the POA yesterday, he is also concerned that if he should become incapacitated that I will be stuck not being able to handle his affairs. I know this is a very difficult and troubling time for him, but I will see his wishes done.
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Dimeolas:

Yes, the joint account would pass directly to you after his death regardless of what the will said.

The joint account is an agreement between him, you and the bank and overrides the will

This is likely the issue. Some children are trustworthy, but many use this opportunity to steal an inheritance from a sibling.

Your dad is likely worried about this. In my work with families, I see this often and indeed this type of theft is on the rise.

You can however have an account with signing rights that will allow you to pay the bills, but will not make you a joint owner of the account.

The problem with this is that an unscrupulous person can still steal money with only signing privileges.

Talk to an elder care attorney.

Still, your father will have to trust you to even give you POA
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thank you, I knew nothing of these things and was hit with it out of nowhere but i'm learning. Thats what his banker told me and what dad wants to accomplish. Nothing will end up going through probate.
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Are you the only heir?
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dimeolas Sep 2018
I have a brother in Cali, as dad wishes since I am the one here everything will pass outside of probate to me as simply as possible and when its all done I will split whats left.
Thank you.
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Can you have him pre pay funeral expenses? And can he place a limited amount in a joint account so you can pay bills?

Make sure he has a will.

Also, consult an attorney!
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dimeolas Sep 2018
Thx big, he has a plot and funeral set up. I believe there will be a payment due at the end like there was with my Mom but it will be paid from his acct.
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Thank you sincerely to everyone who answered. I have spent some time researching and talking to his banker. Dad's goal and I agree is to keep everything out of probate. He will not have a complicated estate. there is no longer Life Insurance and no credit cards.

His several bank accounts have been made 'POD' to my name. That way they will be cashed out to me and the bank mails me a check.
The deed on the house, and there is a mortgage that he refinanced, will either have my name added to it as JTWROS so that dads half interest passes to me or there is something Texas does that allows him to name me as beneficiary so that it passes to me when he goes.
His vehicle he wants to have my name on the Title also.

My last question I guess is does the deed to the house cover the possessions in the house also or do we need to find a way to cover these separately.

I plan on talking with an estate attorney shortly and make sure we have everything covered. What Dad wants is to make it as easy as possible. I will be setting up a separate acct for the proceeds from the estate and when all the taxes and everything are done will split whats left with my brother.

Again thank you to everyone who has or will answer.
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Kalliekaykat Sep 2018
If everything passes to you, your brother will have no legal claim to any of it. I am not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that anything you give to your brother must meet the gift tax rules. For example, if you give him anything over 15000 in 2018, you must file a gift tax return. It is informational only but is still a pain. Also, be prepared for suspicion from your brother who might suspect that he’s just been screwed. Maybe your dad should consider putting both of you as beneficiaries on the accounts. I hope it works smoothly for you. I’ve recently witnessed a family war when one sibling attempted to make himself the sole heir.
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If the bank's normal action is to close the account and mail you a check, the mortgage company must have a "normal" action when the owner of record dies. Maybe they just hold all debts and accrue them to be paid out of escrow (or some sort of account that tallies all the debts and credits due and/or owed). Then you wouldn't have to worry about paying them when his pension/ SSI benefits stop being deposited also.
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I understand that you like the banker, however, the way he set it up and your plans will not mesh.

You need to have your name on the account. POD will not protect your autopay bills. Did he tell you how long it took to mail that check?

Get dad to put you on the accounts, all of them. This will make you a joint account holder and when he passes you will be protected from unpaid bills.

I was on my dads account until he made some really bad decisions and I didn't want to be liable for his actions, nothing like your situation but all done this year, so the information is fairly new, May 2018.

If you can get your dad to write his wishes out and get it notarized it will help you with your brother. All is fine until it's not. The death and inheritance issues are mind boggling, be open and transparent with your brother after dad passes, hopefully he will not feel cheated. If he contests the will, you go to probate, it's the law.

Hopefully this is a situation you will not have to deal with for years.
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Oops I forgot, be sure and title the vehicle "his name and/or your name." This allows you the ability to transfer title when he passes.

Do not let it be "and" it is exactly what it sounds like.
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