Follow
Share
Read More
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Dssmiles: Your mother is a newly recovered alcoholic and as a result, is VERY VULNERABLE. Those who will not help her keep the victory that she has achieved MUST BE KEPT AWAY FROM YOUR MOTHER. You have DPOA so your first task should be to consult an attorney.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Sendme2help had an excellent idea about freezing Mom's credit. I have a freeze on the 3 credit reporting websites and it was pretty easy. There is a cost, depending on what State you live in, but it is pretty inexpensive, like $10 per credit bureau.

You can go on-line with your Mom's social security number, answer a variety of questions so the credit bureau knows it is Mom, and it is easy to find "freeze credit" on the website. In fact you can tell Mom you are doing this so that no one can take her identity [since she used that as an excuse for the broken laptop].
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

I think you need to seek neuropsych testing for your mother (get referral from your family Dr.) in order to get full guardianship. This will prove to the courts she is a danger to herself due to inability to make good financial decisions. This testing should be covered by her Medicare part B, In the meantime, is there anyway that you can limit her access to money. I have dealt with this sort of behaviors when I have worked with people with dementia, who sometimes becomes hoarders, etc. If there is a way to cut down money she has ie cash, limits on credits cards, then she cannot purchase these items w friends. Maybe this friend has a bit of cognitive dysfunction too! good luck
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Order a credit report, by phone, can be done from Mom's phone using automated choices. ( Means you don't talk to anyone).

Put a credit freeze, or called a security freeze on her credit report so no accounts can be opened at stores.

Confiscate all credit cards prior to friends visits, then give them back later.

Make it extremely uncomfortable for friend to stay too long by having huge family reunions at Mom's house during that time.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

It sound like Mom is living alone? Given everything you described about her mental state, it sounds like she needs more supervision. But I realize that it's not so easy. You want Mom to stay at home and feel like she still has freedom and choices but you also want her to be safe. It's a tightrope between health and happiness.

After you described in more detail the bank accounts, store credit cards and spending sprees, it really does appear you need guardianship/conservatorship (term varies from state to state). With a POA, the bank is going to honor your mother's requests. With guardianship, you would have to close her account and open a new account in the name of the guardianship and only you can sign. You could then send you court papers to the credit bureaus to add a notation to her credit report. When they run her credit, they'll see the notation, sort of like a fraud alert, and will either call you or deny credit. Additionally, you record the court papers with your local county recorder so friend can't convince mom to do anything with the house. I would check with a title company that something hasn't been done already. Sounds like your mom would tell her drinking buddy anything.

Guardianship isn't easy or cheap, but given your current situation you need more control than a POA can give you. A lot of responsibility goes with it. You generally have to track every penny and report to the court, but getting things under control can be worth it.

It sounds like your mothers friend may be financially abusing her. All of the financial efforts are troubling. On the one hand she could be just be reacting to your mom's complaints that she can't spend what she wants, and given the behavior you described, I'm sure she's exaggerated it to her. On the other hand, the opening new store cards and ordering more checks is also a red flag. When they go out, who is paying? Is mom paying for everything? Is mom buying her things? When she opens new store credit cards, is she immediately charging items and are those items with your mom or with her friend? If the friend is benefitting financially from the spending sprees, then it's time to talk to APS and look into a restraining order. Alternatively, a facility may be the least restrictive environment appropriate for her where she can be monitored, her medications managed, and caregivers there can back up your statement that alcohol is a big no-no. They can document if the friend comes by, if mom is taken out, if she is returned smelling of alcohol. That will be the ammo you need to get a restraining order. You could move in with mom, or a sibling could, if there is one around and willing. More often than not, these things fall to one person in the family. But if that is not an option it sounds like she shouldn't be alone, and certainly not alone with her friend. My instinct says that one the money tree dries up, the friend wont come around as often. But don't be surprised if that friend doesn't try to fight it herself.

I know it's a tough situation. Hopefully, the advice from above helps. Best of luck to you.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Also, you are spot on, too, Eddie about the pothole in my Mother's soul, and she is yearning for how her life used to be. The friend is doing the same thing. And, that is why I don't want to put a stop to the ir friendship, OR have negativity with this friend, too. It does concern me that this friend takes prescription pain pills and drives. I pray they don't get into an accident. But so far so good. And, if it stays good, it will be the first time. But, like ya'll said, this was the party friend, and really my Mom's only friend. Everyone else were either my Dad's friends or couple friends. My Mother's depression and alcoholism took over the last 10 years, and then the dementia, and now she is a widow with a warped sense of reality. And, this is the only person that she hasn't alienated, and the only person that she can manipulate, and that will do whatever my Mom wants to give them both a false sense of security, independence, and fun, and they feed off one another, and into one another. But, all this does not mean that either one has my Mother's overall best interest.

I'm going to to keep what is planned and scheduled for this next week, and if she's still there, then she'll have to deal with it or leave. Because once Monday, comes play time is over.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Thank you, Eddie. Great suggestions. I am going to talk to my husband about the policeman. My husband knows a lot here in town. And, we even have a dear friend who's son-in-law is a policeman. I just keep all of this in the family between my husband and I, or just to myself, and handle the best I can. But, now it is time to call in some reinforcements, and a policeman that is connected with my husband's and my dear friend might work.

Also,Churchmouse you hit the nail on yhe head. It is my Mom's welfare that I am concerned about. Not, my convenience. You said how it exactly is. And, Yes, you are correct, if Mother is lying to me, I am sure that she is misrepresenting me to the friend. Still, I feel there is still something wrong with this friend, since she is the only person on earth that doesn't get what is happening. And, that she doesn't realize what harm she is creating if she continues to be negative with me, and not see that she needs to put her ego aside, and try to build a positive bridge with me, as to protect my Mother's feelings from being crushed, when I will have to step in to keep my Mother's overall best intetest, and dissolve the friendship, if more negatives come as a result of the friendship than positives. It is so sad, and it doesn't have to be this way if this friend was mentally stable and whole feeling hetself. Thank you all a million times over. Ya'll have helped me to remain more calm since this woman has been here this visit. Thank you.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

I sympathise with the sheer wearisomeness of having to trail round after a visit sweeping up.

Bear this in mind, though: if your mother gives you her own, er, interesting version of events, it is very probably that your mother also gives this friend a similarly distorted picture. So, for example, with the credit cards, your mother might tell her 'oh, Daughter says I spend too much - she's taken all my cards and put them in the incinerator.' And, swallowing this story whole, Friend indignantly sets about helping her get new ones.

Do you, really, think it probable that the friend 'smashed the laptop up with a hammer'? I mean, it's possible; and I speak as one who was driven by enraged frustration to physical abuse of an iPod Touch (my own, though). It's just it seems to me a more likely scenario that Friend saw your text, thought "is she nuts?", and decided not to bother replying.

Someone needs to communicate to the friend:

Mother really has got dementia. No, really, she has.
Dementia does some very odd things to the brain. Here is a leaflet explaining a few common, but still extremely weird, effects you might expect to see.
Befriending a person with dementia, and being a true friend to that person, means taking into account that they need help to stay safe and not be exploited. Please find out more about this.

If she won't listen to you, and you've tried putting this as nicely as you can in writing, then ask someone else to act as *your mother's* advocate with the friend. After all, it isn't your convenience you're most concerned about, it's your mother's welfare - and her welfare includes keeping her well-informed friends. Doctor, nurse, mutual acquaintance, policeman if need be - think of someone who can be the messenger for you.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

If she was your Mom's party friend for years, expect things to get uglier every time both of them take a trip down Memory Lane. The problem is that there's a pothole in your mother's soul; a yearning for the way her life used to be. ... And this woman somehow fills a void that screams for freedom and a bit of adventure.

Since this friend has practically told you to stick it, drop by the nearest police precinct for legal advice on how best to handle the situation the next time she visits. Perhaps the Community Affairs officer could swing by and strike a compromise among the three of you that keeps Mom safe during her forays through the neighborhood.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Sorry, above posted before i was finished. There hasn't been friction with family members either, just with my Mom doing all kinds of crazy things. I feel a lot of it is her mental illness and dementia, but a lot of it is just her manipulative personality, too. My biggest worry is that she could lose her house or end up in a state nursing home one day, and that is another reason her irrational spending worries me. I am basically protecting her from herself. And, i don't want to ever have to get a restraining order on anyone, but will if worse comes to worse. But, hopefully, it won't. Still, I need to know, just in case.

I could have gotten legal guardianship over her last year, due to the drinking, alone. But, I kept hanging in there with her to get her to the doctors, and get her through testing, and now diagnosis of dementia, etc. And, I feel that I still have enough to seek guardianship, but I don't want to do that if at all possible, and that is another reason this friend needs to respect my wishes, because I am getting to the point of not being able to put it off any longer. My D.P.O.A. is written to where if guardianship is ever granted that I am the one to be named as guardian. I was at the dentist, today, and the hygienist had to go through a lot that I am going through with her Mom. And, she said that even though it was hard and nerve racking to keep doing what I am doing, go with my gut, and pray, because I do have my Mom's best interest. All of this is so stressful and wearing. And, being a caregiver and/or caregiver manager is like having a full-time job. Which I understand that you all know this all too well, too. And, yes, I am sooo thankful this woman doesn't live in town, or I would have had to of had gotten guardianship immediately. Also, the time before this time, I did find alcohol in the house that wasn't there before she visited. So, that is why I told her this time point blank no alcohol, doctor's orders. And, the doctor talked to my Mom in a sweet and super kind way about not letting her friend have alcohol in the house, etc., because my Mom is worth it to stay sober and healthy. Night everyone. I will give you updates. Thank you all, again, for your help, kindness, and words of wisdom.

When she leaves this time if anything is broken and missing, like the last time, I am going to tell her that she is not welcome, again, without me present, or at all.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Hello, The drs that diagnosed her 3 of them: neuropsychologist, neurologist, and Family doctor are the ones that helped me get her sober, and helping with keeping it that way. They, also, have recommended assisted living, too, and we have just started that process. Things are on the upswing compared to last year. My Mom won't listen to me, but she will follow doctor's orders, better. I am grateful and blessed. This one friend is the only place that there has been friction, concerning non-family members. And, there hasn't been any family friction, either
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

I'm on your side, too, Dssmiles, but I don't see how you have a legal leg to stand on. What "harm" has this friend done? She hasn't taken Mom out and gotten her drunk. They haven't robbed a 7-11 together. She's not holding her against her will. I can imagine the conversation:

"Boy you sure have a hard time hearing me lately. Won't your daughter buy you a hearing aid?"
"She's mentioned it, but nothing has been done."
"Well, I'll take you to the hearing place and you can order them yourself."

If I were you, Dssmiles, I wouldn't like this one little bit. I don't blame you for being upset about it. But how would this be grounds for a PPO?

How is it exploiting your mother to encourage her to spend her money on herself? If the friend had ordered a hearing aid for herself with Mom's money, that would be a whole different matter. But adults are free to listen to any advice they care to, and can make their own decisions legally -- even very poor or costly decisions.

Destroying the laptop seems harmful, but you really don't know the story behind that.

Changing the checking account might be a good start, but how is that going to prevent her from opening new lines of credit?

In order to become your mother's guardian (and therefore authorized to prohibit this friend from taking mother out of the house) you will need to go through the process to have her declared incompetent, and then to prove that you are qualified to be her guardian. Are there doctors who consider your mother incompetent (in the legal sense)?
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

I'm afraid you've only got one legal option - guardianship. As far as a restraining order goes - even if you had documentation that this woman is harmful to your mothers well being, I am certain that unless you have guardianship - legal proof that your mother can not determine her own best intrests - the police/court would need for your mother to be the one requesting the order, backing up the claims of harmful behavior. The same holds true for expecting this friend to just stay away. As long as your mother is deemed legally competent she can spend her time any way and with whom ever she wants. Your only route around this, is you becoming your mothers guardian - which will only happen if you can get doctors/ a judge to declare your mom incompetent. One way to think about this is to switch up the characters - could a sister make this kind of decision for a brother? A wife for her husband? It may not seem right, that there are so few options in protecting your mother from this friend but it comes down to is what's legal - if you don't have your mothers cooperation. Don't get me wrong - I'm on your side. I went through something similar but not nearly as extream with a couple of my moms friends- wanting to take her out of the nursing home. They were convinced I was the devil, keeping my mother captive. I was lucky - they finally understood after spending enough time with my mom at the nursing home. One of the ladies even apologized- well, sort of, lol!
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Dssmiles, thanks for updating us with more examples. I changed my vote, I didn't realize your Mom was opening up new store accounts. My gosh, its like having a teenager with a boyfriend who is questionable. The more you discourage it the more they try to find ways to be together. Wonder if reverse psychology would work.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

I agree that my Mom needs a/the friendship. However, a friend looking out for my Mom would not try to spite me, enable my Mother by taking her to do anything Mother wants, without respecting my wishes concerning talking with me and wanting to help me help my Mother instead of causing discord and negativity, lying, bullying me, etc. It was my Mom's laptop, and the friend told me that she put it in a bag. Finally, after going round and round about what happened to it, and turning the house upside down trying to find it, my Mom sais, "Well, if you cannot find it, then it's gone." I said, "Then if it is gone, what happened to it?" She said, "Friend smashed it with a hammer and threw it away, so no one could steal my identity." My Mom couldn't tell me the rest. My Mother lies a lot to fill in what she doesn't remember or doesn't want to take responsibility for her actions. I questioned the friend through email, and she never acknowledged one way or another. Not sharing, keeping secrets, etc., is just as bad as lying, in my mind.

I have taken all credit cards away, except for one debit/credit card through the bank that I can load for her. However, her friend visited, several months ago, and took my Mom shopping, and Mother opened 2 new store cards again. I was giving Mom 1 checkbook at a time, but she called the bank 2 different times and ordered more checks.

I asked the bank if thete was away for me to make the account where we both had to sign the checks, and they said that as long as she was primary on the account that she could do what she wanted.

I guess I need to go to the bank and say, point blank, I am here to change the account to where we both have to sign checks, let's proceed? Is this a special type of checking accounts, and does it have a special name?

I do not want to have to get the police involved. But, if i say the lady cannot spend-the-night, or drive my Mother anywhere she wants, unless she talks with me, first, then I want to know that I am within my legal rights, and have the law to help me keep my Mother safe and her best interest, Always.

It doesn't give me free time in the long run, if I have to go round and round trying to undo all the damage done while friend is enabling my Mother. If they are having fun being together, going to a movie, shopping for clothes and staying in my Mom's budget, going out to eat, getting their nails done, etc., I have no problem with that.

But, house shopping, electronic shopping, purchasing things whete my Mother is signing contracts, opening up credit, anything business or medical, I need to be the one with her, and know about it before it happens, instead of after the fact.

Thank ya'll soooo much for your advice and help. It is very much appreciated.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Easy fix when it comes to the spending issues, take away Mom's credit cards [tell her there has been a breach on the cards and the bank said to cut them up], and take away Mom's checkbook or have checks made where two signatures are required. Give your Mom an allowance that is within reason, and if Mom spends it all and ask for more, tell her it's not in the budget.

One does have to step back when it comes to elder's friends. Your Mom needs to be around someone closer to her own age group to talk to. You may not like this friend, but your Mom does. Let her have the fun.

Think of it this way, this friend is giving you free time when she is there with your Mom, the friend is looking out for her. Tell the friend to make sure Mom doesn't get any alcoholic as it could make her very sick due to medicine she is taking... I am sure Mom's friend wouldn't want to do anything to make her friend sick.

As for the laptop, was it your Mom's laptop, and what was the reason that her friend smashed the laptop? There had to be some type of disagreement. Did her friend break it or did Mom, but Mom told you someone else broke it?
Helpful Answer (9)
Report

Another thought - plan activities for your mother when this woman visits so your mother's not even home. A few wasted trips might annoy the woman enough that she'll start backing off, but I rather doubt it. She's a taker and has found an open purse.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Document everything this woman has done. Then contact local law enforcement authorities or the local/county PPO (personal protection order) office and ask what qualifications constitute financial abuse. Also inquire if anger management, manipulation and other actions of this woman are grounds for a PPO.

If so, request that a PPO be issued. In our county, when I got one several years ago, it was an ex-parte action, i.e., no court hearing was required.

As 1/2 owner of the house, you have rights as well. Draw up a list of prohibited behaviors, present it to the woman, and continue to document her abuse of your terms. She's going to challenge you; use it to your advantage.

There's also the issue of protecting your mother, as your mother will probably want to continue to have this woman in her life. Detail what she does and how it might be welcome to your mother, then (and this is a hard part) find ways to substitute for what this woman brings into your mother's life.

Good luck.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Although it is a pain if these spending sprees take place over only a few days you can probably return items and cancel contracts. If the smashed computer wasn't replaced then it is mom who will have to bear the consequences, just be sure she knows who to blame. (not you!)
Mom is sneaking around like a teenager and you are acting the rigid parent, I think you need to extract yourself from that role and just be "cheerful and stupid" about these sprees, I hope they don't happen too often? Be glad that the friend doesn't live close enough to visit every day.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

Your mother's friend probably thinks she is on your mother's side against her over-protective, over-controlling, bossy, miserable, cheese-paring no fun puritanical Stasi daughter.

She is, however, even if there could be a tiny grain of truth to her point of view, overcompensating to the point of irresponsibility.

Your duty as your mother's POA is to assist your mother to make the choices she would have made in her previous right mind. Your duty as your mother's primary caregiver is to keep her as safe and healthy and happy as possible within the limits of her physical and mental frailties. You have a problem, because there is a conflict between those two things.

You probably could get heavy, legally, and forbid your mother's friend's staying in the house. But the point is, your mother doesn't want that. She wants to have her friend to stay. Your mission - if you choose to accept it - is to make that happen in a way that is as safe as possible.

Your mother's friend doesn't owe you respect, let alone obedience. So. You will either have to earn her respect, and persuade her to comply with the ground rules; or you will have to impose restrictions on your mother's social life that, to be blunt, it would be wrong to impose.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

I agree with Uncle Dave; this is not about YOU not being respected. This is about your mother, who sounds like a vulnerable adult, being exploited. Call APS.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

You indicate you have POA {caregiver, daughter, and D.P.O.A.}

With few exceptions, a Power of Attorney gives you the right to do any legal acts that your mother could do herself.

these powers are very broad,
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

{Q}\
Her last trip, she smashed a laptop with a hammer and threw away,

Time to call adult protective services and ask for their help/
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Asked by Dssmiles | 3 hrs ago | +Follow Answers

My Mother's Friend comes and spends 3 to 4 nights from out-of-town with my Mother. She refuses to accept my Mother's dementia diagnosis, along with no alcohol, and keeping me in the loop of what's going on when she visits.

She drives my Mother anywhere she wants to go.
And, my Mother spends money on things she doesn't need, or over spends, period, and the friend doesn't respect my wishes as caregiver, daughter, and D.P.O.A., and told me in so many words to butt-out, and that she isn't friends with me, but my Mom, and to leave her alone, and to quit telling her what to do, and her friendship is with my Mom and not me.

My Mother is a recovering alcoholic since the beginning of this year. And, she has dementia, and she cannot drive. She has, also, been diagnosed with bipolar and major depressive disorder. My Mom has a lot of problems with managing money, and I have to help my Mother with everything that requires making sound decisions, and help keep her away from alcohol.

I, also, drive her everywhere, take her to all medical appointments, make all financial and business decisions. I am responsible for my Mom.

This friend is an enabler, and she doesn't respect me, and I don't want her around my Mother driving her all over the place, and spending several nights and days at a time.

Her last trip, she smashed a laptop with a hammer and threw away,
took my Mom to a new hearing specialist, where my Mom bought new hearing aides, took her to buy a walker (my Mother hates, and i had to buy her another one, and she likes it)

tried to get my Mom to buy her relative's dog, and my Mother lies and acts like an insolent and insidious teenager, and then says she doesn't remember.

And, this friend takes offense with me and doesn't understand that I need to be kept in the loop, and she won't follow my guidelines concerning my Mother. And, once she leaves, I am left to pick up the pieces, and it is awful, and she just is not welcome.

What legal rights do I have to tell the friend that she cannot visit and/or spend-the-night? She spends 3 to 4 nights at a time. Just the negativity she brings and the stress. It is awful. And, she is a bad influence. She's rude, arrogant, disrespectful, and I am trying to keep things positive. I don't trust her or my Mom, especially, when they are together.

She is on a lot of pain medication, too, which I have a problem with when it comes to her driving my Mother places around town, too. If I tell her she has to butt-out, or that she is not allowed in my Mom's house, or not allowed to be with my Mother,

I want the law on my side if it comes to me having to make this stance with her. Can anyone help advise me on how to handle? And, if it doesn't stop, what legal recourse do I have to back up my words if she doesn't listen and stays away?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

Your mom has dementia. How far is she into her disease? Do you live with her? Is she still living in her home? If she is in early stages she is still able to make her own decisions. This friend visiting your mom is fun for your mom from the sounds of it. Has the POA been activated? Does it say you can choose your mom's friends and visitors. To control every aspect of your Mom's life you will need guardianship granted through the courts. That is an expensive process and first, your mom must be declared incompetent, then the court may award you guardianship.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Are you living in the house with your mother?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

My Mother's friend told me to butt-out. My Mom knows how I feel to a certain extent. However, my Mother is in denial of a lot, but is doing better with letting me manage and help her. Also, I own the house with my Mom. The friend doesn't know this. Still, I am trying to keep it from getting ugly, because I want my Mom to have friendship. I just don't want this woman to be there during the week, and for so many days. And, if any kind of stuff happens like it did the last time, I am going to tell her to stay away. I just want to legally be sble to back it up.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Hi

Who told you to butt out? Mom or friend?

Friend has "no life", therefore she can spend days on end at your mom's?

Have you spoken to mom alone, and explain exactly how you feel, and what could happen (alcoholism) if this friend is not discouraged from spending do much time with mom?

I hope you get some practical suggestions from other sources here.

Wish you and mom better days ahead!

M 8 8
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Legal right to keep your mother's friend from visiting? Probably none, unless you are your mother's guardian.

Is your mother living alone?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter