Dad is 92, can barely hear, can't walk far, and definitely has cognitive issues (per doctor). He is currently living in CA with my brother but he loves his house back in Michigan and won't give us permission to sell it or even start cleaning it out. He thinks he's going back but he hasn't been back in 2 years and it's a tri-level, in a rural area where he would have to drive. There is no family there...we are all on the West Coast. Now with Covid I have nothing on my plate and feel I could drive to MI and shelter in place there, going through stuff and getting it ready to sell. My sibs agree it should be sold but not if dad says no. THEY aren't the ones taking responsibility for ensuring lawn care happens and asking favors of neighbors... for whatever reason they leave it to me. I have the time to do it this summer. I have POA and also am trustee of his trust and deal with all his bills and he never asks anything about it. He would never know if I did sell or at least clear out the garage and basement which are worthy of a Hoarders show. I'm feeling really guilty but my time is also valuable and usually in the summer we travel and who wants to deal with this in Michigan winter? It's not his principal residence anymore and if it isn't sold by Dec 2021 he will have capital gains. It may take two summers to clear it out (90 years of stuff, seriously). Has anyone just done this and not told their parent or even their sibs (because they will end up telling him). He still has a huge temper and they are afraid of his wrath and would rather I take on the blame I think. By the way, before this he was only living there for 1/2 the year anyway for the last 12 years... always saying he would sell it "soon".. it was too overwhelming for him and it's going to be really overwhelming for me too.
use the capital gains as the rationale as to why and then do a quick costs to keep (add on like 20% for inflation and make sure all costs, like repairs, yard, winterizing, insurances) as well, so that financially it costs big time to keep. Legally it sounds like you can do whatever, I’d just go ahead and keep it on the down low. Folks are gonna be pissed & second guess you no matter what, right? Ignore the drama.
If your not billing the trust MIE (Mileage and incidental expenses), I’d start doing that..... but not actually billing the Trust. You hold that lil missive back and if you get blowback, it’s more $$$ that non-decision making is gonna cost dad and the heirs. MIE kinda gives you leverage, Comprende?
Also next August, gives you a Basically a year, which imho Covid concerns will be lessened, and better position to actually get a property sold. You put it on the market next spring, so it shows when weather is best. Then if not sold by July drop price (motivated seller). Really a Realtor will be invaluable for you thru this.
Also when you’re there this summer, I wouldn’t take this on all by myself. I’d speak with either Realtors or if you have any old friends there, as to finding a duo to help get the place “market ready”. Place is huge so plenty of social distancing possible. There might be stuff buried in rooms that actually could work to have it staged “rustic” to sell. There are folks that are pros at staging and editing a house filled to the rafters in short time frame.
Unoccupied houses seldom maintain value and often develop major repair/maintenance issues or are vandalized. There are usually problems with insurance too. Occasionally these days, empty houses end up with squatters that must be evicted. Paying taxes, insurance, and maintenance fees on a house your father will never be able to live in again does not make financial sense. If your father is having cognitive issues, I believe the POA needs to act in the father's best interest and sale this house while it can bring market value. That might not be until the economy recovers from CV (although I understand some rural homes are selling well as people want to get out of the cities), but you can at least get started with the cleanup.
We have a similar situation. Dad has hoarded for years. Unfortunately he can still get to the house, which is in a trust, and he notices if anything is out of place.
My brother and I are the remainder men to the trust. I would like to tackle some of the mess, my brother does not want to rock the boat.
The property is on an island with no garbage pick up, so we have to pay big bucks or rent trucks to have the garbage removed.
If I were you, I would go ahead, drive cross county and start the clean up process.
Vacant homes attract trouble. As you remove the clutter and hoard, you will probably find some deferred maintainance issues. Having the luxury of time to roll through this huge project beats the urgency and rush of having to do it in a hurry. As POA you have been chosen for your ability to manage for the best interest of your Dad. Cleaning up his house is most likely not on your siblings list of things they are wanting to do.
Hire a local high school student or retired friend to help you stage your garage sale and enjoy the memories.
Be aware, if you think that Medicaid will be needed within five years, it has to be sold at Market Value. Do not depend on a realtor to know the rules. I wanted Moms assessed. Realtor said she could do comparables. An assessor will give you a better idea. I would sell it "as is" and make sure the assessor knows that. Put it up for sale now. It could take a while.
Yes, go clean it out. My Mom had a 4 bedroom farmhouse she lived in for 60 years. She didn't just have her stuff, she had some of my brothers and my deceased sisters. Better to work room by room. First, though, get rid of clothes he will never wear. Then the junk. I bought storage boxes with lids and put each siblings name on a box. As I found pictures and things I thought they would want, I thru it in their box. I doubt if any of them will drive to Mich. to get furniture so sell it or give it to a thrift shop. Now you should be getting down to the good stuff. Make a list, see if anyone wants anything in particular, if not, sell or donate. Lots of Church yardsales going on in the Summer. I did this pretty much by myself. Husband helped with the heavy stuff. SIL came and took what she wanted. My girlfriend belongs to a couple of groups and cooks/bakes for them so she got all Moms baking dishes. I really enjoy cleaning out.
As to your other questions, lots of good comments, on which I'd like to add some thoughts.
1. You can start cleaning it up & preparing it for sale, boxing up, indexing contents in case your father wants something. If you use a spreadsheet, you can easily search for anything, also making it easier to locate something he might think he needs (acknowledging that potential).
If he does agree to sell, or at such other appropriate time, your work is already done for you, and you'll avoid the stress of selling at a more challenging time. Yet you haven't defied his wishes.
2. Hire a cleanout company, but do your homework. The 1-800 junk removers are different than a real cleanout company. The one I hired is Veteran owned, with workers who really know how to dismantle things that can't be disposed of w/o doing so. They're in E. Michigan.
3. Determine if there are any haz-mat items, which in our area includes cans with gas, oil, and similar type substances.
A flexible junk removal company may take these items for you, as it's often hard, for example, to get a propane gas container in a car all by yourself (it is for me).
4. If there are vehicles, lawn equipment, dilapidated structures such as sheds, those require a different approach. I hired a demolition company for one. It was costly, but safer.
5. Something I learned through realtors. Some may offer suggestions or specific references on companies, but there may be a caveat. One of the 5 realtors with whom I spoke was glad to suggest someone for a particularly challenging removal item, but ONLY if I agreed to specifically retain him as my realtor. He didn't get my business.
If you do hire contractors, make sure to get a copy of their insurance certificates. When dealing with clean-outs, it's easy for someone to be injured, especially if there are very heavy items.
6. If the house isn't subject to vacant house insurance, you'll need to have that, but it doesn't cover water damage, such as that from broken pipes. Companies that provide this kind of insurance are limited. In Michigan, Foremost is one that does.
If there are weapons in the house, they won't be covered by a policy unless they're in a gun safe.
7. Commenting on Mincemeat's suggestion, unless you're actually staying in the house, be careful about having sales and avoid responding to inquiries on whether or not the house is vacant. I learned to twist the truth and avoid that issue, as I soon learned that not only the neighbors but someone who drove by wanted certain things.
In one case, a woman came over to dig up plants, w/o even determining first if the house was for sale. And whether or not I lived there or if the house was vacant was ALWAYS asked by contractors, potential buyers and more.
8. Whatever you do (and you may already have taken care of this), have the water turned off by the city/township for the winter to avoid frozen pipes. It cost $30 for me to have the township do this, and will cost another $30 to turn the water back on. But that's far less than the damage of broken pipes and a flooded basement.
9. I was told by a trust accountant that the IRS requires assessment of a house's value w/i a certain period of time after death, and it has to be done by a qualified assessor, not "just" a real estate agent. I don't know if this applies to any sale now, or just those of houses held in trust.
We could have avoided a lot of the cap gains, if we had waited until mom passed (she's still going) due to it being a life estate (a type of trust.) Problem was between RE taxes, condo fees and utilities, a lot of $$ going out the door for no good reason! Kind of negates any gain we might have gotten!
Meanwhile, I got most of the trekking/doing, and it sucked down over a year and a half of my life! The timing was actually great - not only did it sell quickly (55+ only, none others really on the market in that area), but we had a mini-bidding war and got more than we asked for it!
To get my dad to agree to sell the house I had to use the idea that he was being unfair to a new family who could enjoy the house and that since he wasn't living in it it would deteriorate and would be eventually bought by people who would have to tear it down and build a new house on his lot. He loved his house and the idea that it would be torn down unless he sold NOW was very compelling to him. Luckily the buyer was a young couple that he knew.
Pretty much what we encountered (posted in reply to another comment.) EC attorney said I could sign everything else as POA, but NOT the deed. As my comment says, I find that ridiculous - I can't sign as her legit POA, but she, with dementia, no clue and had already forgotten the condo, was "okay" to sign... at least we could do this with notary at the MC facility - if we had to bring her to closing... eeeech!
One addition, if the home is empty your homeowners insurance will not cover a loss. It is really expensive to get insurance for an empty property. However, as we all know insurance is cheaper than a loss, but you are looking at 3 or 4k annually for empty house coverage and it doesn't cover a lot of issues.
Have fun getting it cleared out and ready for sale.
I did find out that I could get a policy from the same insurance that provided the Master policy and it wasn't bad - not much more than the original insurance (so more than likely she was overpaying all those years, for coverage she didn't really need!) It wouldn't cover any "improvements", such as replacing the original carpeting with HW floors, but the plan was to get rid of it ASAP! If it came down to it, put the damn carpeting in! Mom's not going back.
So, for anyone else out there who has an unoccupied condo - you'll need that special policy and should check to see if there is a Master and what it covers. You could also ask them if they would offer the owner policy to cover the rest.
Someone else noted the owner had to sign the final document(s) - in our case, mom didn't have to go to closing, but EC atty said I could sign everything else as POA, but NOT the deed (even with dementia involved!)
Call a friend in Dad's hometown and ask for the best title company recommendation. They will look at your trustee and POA paperwork and tell you what you need in that specific county and state to sell your Dad's house. All of our best to you! Keep us posted!
Many banks want a POA completed on their own form, which is often impossible when the principal has cognitive issues. Once I had to get a court order for a bank to accept the 14 year old POA signed prior to any cognitive declines. Somehow state judges don't like multi-state businesses to refuse documents properly executed in the form required by the resident's state laws.
The home insurance payments are most likely money down the drain as the insurance company can decline to pay any claim as soon as they find out the house has been empty.
You would probably get more traction with his doctor if you provide a copy of the POA for his files and then request a statement verifying incompetency or inability to travel across country so you can sell the house and continue to fund your father's care. Sometimes it helps to have the letter written by an attorney in the doctor's jurisdiction. If the doctor will not respond, then try to get him on the line for a brief conversation where you state this is a final attempt to get what you need before petitioning a judge to order the doctor to provide a statement. If your father has a separate/different healthcare POA, then there's some question whether a DPOA can access medical records.
Good luck!
So I contacted a few estate sale companies; they admitted they had no experience in shop tools, but did want to come out, inventory and price household goods, which I didn't need.
I did find an industrial estate sale company with someone who knew the difference between saws and other tools. He said their company typically doesn't handle any kind of industrial tool or similar estate sale unless the value of the contents was about $15K.
Eventually I found 2 very qualified wood and metal working schools to which I planned to donate the tools.
So even as POA for out of state father, he may have to sign. So get house ready to sell and talk to local attorney. It was not our attorney who wanted this, it was the lender for the seller. If it were me, I would get it ready to list and tell him we are selling the house. So what if he has a fit. He knows he is never going back. And it needs to be done and over with for all the reasons.
you could also try to ask him questions about how he sees the future, what does he expect to happen, why is he keeping house. Similar questions to those asked in the wonderful book, Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. That might jar him loose from the position he is stuck in and get him to agree.
This would be the best way to get this done.
I had to do it in Nevada, even though I have DPOA and it specifically states that I can transact any and all business, including sales of real estate.
I would tell dad that you are learning the forms required to protect him and this is one that you really need to ensure that you can take care of his business.
If this is in a trust and you are the sole Trustee right now, you can sell the house. Read the trust, they usually are very clear what the trustee can do.
Remind siblings they will have a place to sleep as they go through stuff and maybe cart away a few treasures. When extending the invitation to visit, make sure they understand you will have the refrigerator well stocked so they won't go hungry.
If they care about their father and their own sanity, they will recognize it's best not to discuss the sale of something he can't leg go of. Their resistance is maybe denial of what's unfolding. Since you are tasked with this nightmare, you haven't a choice but to accept what needs to be done.
Insurance. Tell the agent you are going to clear the house and put it up for sale. All's the agent needs to hear from you is "he is unable to live there anymore" or "my brother is taking care of him in CA now" and/or "he thinks he is returning home but he can not." I would not utter the word "vacant." The agent will realize the place is in fact vacant so you and he/she can discuss the proper insurance policy needed for the property between now and the time you sale.
The insurance company will likely convert to a plan for unoccupied/vacant properties. It's a higher premium, but a cost of business - i.e. selling the house and settling the estate. Insurance deals with these situations routinely.
Dad needs it handled due to his failing health and possible future need for nursing home care. Having the house sold prior to nursing home admission will save a lot of headaches and heartaches in your family. Do your siblings realize he may need sales proceeds to pay for future nursing home care? It's good your brother can take him in short term, but he may not be able to stay with your brother permanently.
All too often siblings sometimes don't want to help (until it comes time to split the remains anyway!), disagree with decisions, criticize, complain or worse. I tried to include both brothers in decisions, etc, but eventually gave up - it was too much effort sometimes to just get a simple response! I don't bother anymore. They have questions about how I handle everything for mom, including the trust, they should be asking NOW.
In OP's case, I would make 1-2 attempts and then just do whatever needs to be done. Don't waste time on anger, as it only hurts you, not them. Guilt? No. You tried for years to get this done (not as many for me, but yeah, I brought it up with mom and was rebuffed.)
Cleaning out I would save anything he might like (or the family might enjoy) aside and bring that back with you. Trash the actual trash. Furniture and kitchen type items, if no one wants them in the family, either yard sale or donate. Don't waste time thinking you have some antiques unless you know for certain something is. Mom had some older real wood furniture, but it really is/was a dime a dozen and not worth much of anything! What my bothers didn't want we donated to a local place that helps people get a fresh start, to the neighbor for her church rummage sale, etc. I did end up with items coming here, so now MY place is full of crap too! Some are nice dishes, but don't really need them, the rest is mostly left over junk (fake flowers anyone?) OB kept bringing here - I don't want them!!!
When my dad moved from his home to IL, we arranged for an estate sale, but for all 4 of us girls came from 4 different states and stayed in dad's home for several days to sort through his papers, shred, store, and divide up anything the 4 of us wanted to keep. Things we thought he might want were put into a couple of tubs into his storage locker. Furniture went into a storage unit when he moved again from IL to AL until we knew he was no longer asking for them. I finally donated all that to Salvation Army. Yes it’s a lot of work!! But as the POA, this is your responsibility even if you have lazy siblings. Do it now even though it’s easy to be resentful. It has to be done sooner or later and this is as good a time as any. Think of it as performing sacred work. Good luck.
If the upkeep of the house meanwhile is becoming too troublesome, tell him that, too. You do have the option of resigning your responsibilities, should it come to it.
He is entitled to keep his property, even if his ever benefiting from it directly again is just a fantasy. He isn't entitled to make you do work you don't want to do, though; but there are people who can be paid (by him) to do it instead.
Doesn't matter if you have POA or are Trustee, he is still capable of making decisions if he is competent and you could be prosecuted for violating the fudiciary responsibilities of both positions.
I would leave it alone and when the time comes if your siblings don't step in and help, then hire a company to deal with it out of the estate funds.
I think that I would go sort out the items that I would want personally so that I could remove them without hassle later. But I only want family photos and items that were special to my grandma, so no one is going to grouch about the value.
When you speak with the certified elder law attorney in MI they will direct you to keep it all legal.
I liked your reply that you sent me a short time ago. I believe the advice you gave the OP was perfect, and you may very well have headed off a big problem in the making. You are a genius. Thank you for sharing the insight that you always share with us.
Happy Friday,
John
My father had several strokes. When he was in the nursing home for a round of rehab, he believed that once he got back in his own house, that he would be "better." I knew otherwise. Once he got back into his house, he realized that the place was a booby trap for him - and he was having trouble functioning in it. (Meanwhile, I had hired his young grandnephew to help him with personal care at home.) His realization enabled me to have a heart-to-heart talk about how the house needed to be sold, because he would not be able to live in it safely ever again.
You really do need to start sorting things and having repairs done, so that when the house needs to go on the market, it can do so easily.
If your dad is not mentally competent to deal with the house, then you can invoke your POA and handle the house sale without his permission.
I agree with you. She really didn’t want to be there, but the house and furnishings were memories. She didn’t know how to get rid of them. When we placed her in a facility ( home was a booby trap), we started clearing that house. Put it on the market and sold the next day.
Now, no more worries!