As POA, I am aware that I can use her bank funds on her behalf and to pay her bills while living. I have heard that once she has passed, my POA is no longer valid, even if it is used for funeral/burial costs, etc..
You heard right. The account is locked down on her death if your name is on it as POA only. You may want to consider prepaying a funeral service. You should also check with the executor of her will, as that person will be the next one to be able to make payment out of funds.
And man, the body wasn't even cold before the bank shut it down...with bills to pay, including those for my mom's 24/7 aides--who counted on that money. Fortunately, my sister and I had a little warning /foresight...withdrew money for aides before my mom's death. (And documented it all.)
Because of Medicaid I prepaid Moms funeral. Was so nice.
If Mom is still competent, I recommend you being beneficiary of her bank accts. Its called "Pay on Death" (POD). This way the money becomes urs at death and you can use it as u wish.
Yes, POD is the way to go. I'm in Texas; any accounts and policies that have stated persons or are POD do not go through probate and are accessible WITH a death certificate. So, there is a lag time to receive the death certificate. Once LO passes, POAs are null. Executor of will takes over, if there is a will. Consult an estate attorney for facts and required processes in your state and jurisdiction because they vary on probate requirements.
Does she have a life insurance policy? If so, make sure the premiums are paid monthly. This should take care of burial expenses. Many people will pay their expenses upfront especially for the cemetery and plots fees and etc. I would call the cemetery where she is interred and find out the pricing before the final days. The funeral home will process the policy for the embalming services and casket. Just make sure if they take care of the burial arrangements as well. There may be a fee of the opening and closing up the grave if you don't do a cremation and decide to take the ashes home.
Many elderly people will keep up their policies. Make sure you have all of this upfront and have your paperwork in a safe place.
A life insurance policy would be easy to find with a POA. Just look at her bank statements for premium payments. You can also see who the company is and contact them to get a copy. Hopefully they are listed as a beneficiary. Boy, that would create conflict if they are not listed. I know I’d be upset. My mom would get the “stink” eye.
The account can continue if rights of survivorship is the type of account it is. I would ask the bank if the account is filed that way and if you are jointly on the account it can remain open as is.
Hi - I also live in SC and want to make sure I understand what you have shared. I have POA for my Mom and I understand that ceases at her death. I am on her checking account so I can pay bills, move money, etc when she becomes unable but I am concerned that if I were to be sued, her money could be taken since I am on that account. I will be the one to pay her remaining bills. She has a prepaid funeral in FL, but the transportation will have to be paid at time of death. If I am listed as beneficiary instead of joint owner, I would be able to take over the account to pay remaining expenses without going thru probate? And the POA I have now will allow me to pay her current bills when she becomes unable? I thought everything was under control, but am having second thoughts now. All else is in a Trust account.
Any power of attorney comes to an end immediately on the death of the person who created it.
Funds from your mother's estate - bank accounts, cash, whatever - can be used to pay for her funeral costs and related expenses, but you'll need a different authorisation. If you are the executor under her will, for example, that would do. Has she made a will?
I'm not sure but others will know: can a POA be used to purchase a funeral plan?
Yes I did but I had a bank officer allow it. If the account was set up with what I described the other party on a joint account can continue to write checks but they need to be listed as beneficiary on the account.
I am also the executor although US states have different names for this such as personal representative in my state of SC. Because I was not listed as beneficiary on the checking account it has taken a month to get that filed with the local court and now I can have access to the joint account I had with my mother as her POA.
Some of this depends on the nature of the: POA (durable, non-springing, and what it actually says/what actual powers are OR are NOT conferred), your State law and if you are on her account (bank/checking) as a joint owner OR as just a beneficiary. Also, if she has executed a Will or not, and if you are named as the Executor to pay for her funeral from her remaining funds and to handle/close her estate. This later part (including the filing of final taxes) can take from a year to 18 months to work through. Also, if she has Medicaid now or will be applying in the future, consider prepaying the funeral expenses now. [PS: prepaying funeral expenses is allowed under Medicaid, as long as the expenses are basic. I prepaid my mom's funeral expenses: simple, a no service burial and the plot was gifted by a relative and it all still cost $14K. Something to perhaps prepay.]
But all to say, it would be best for you to get with a Wills, Trust and Estate attorney and/or an Elder Care attorney (if Medicaid is likely to be part of this) licensed in your State (each State has different laws/rules) rather than guessing. Not knowing or not following the law/rules in your State or jurisdiction [PS some counties have unique laws/rules too] (where your LO is especially if you are not in the same State/locality) is no defense; will not give you a pass for any "re do."
Example, where we live near an urban area on the east coast, when my aunt passed her son who lived in a different State assumed he'd do what he knew based on his State. Our local jurisdiction within our State requires that an original Will be presented to the County Registrar of Wills before anything can happen with the estate including naming any Executor to handle just the funeral much less to start the process of handling/closing the estate. Said cousin was appalled that he had to come here -- drive 500+ miles -- just to present an original Will. Further he did NOT want to hand over the original Will which our jurisdiction requires (a copy will not do). This went on for weeks, no burial. I had to get a local Wills, Trust and Estate attorney involved so the original Will could be federal expressed to the lawyer and thereafter the lawyer would help present that document and handle the required legal steps in our State so the cousin would not have to come back and forth over and over except for the funeral. The lawyer was named as his legal representative to handle this in our State/locality and she was paid out of my aunt's estate. It was well worth the cost as it would have been virtually impossible for my out of State cousin to really do all of this other than traveling back and forth over and over to be in person to handle the unique in-person steps our locality mandates.
Hopefully, your mother has a Will drafted by an attorney that names you as Executor. Regardless, worth considering prepaying for the funeral now as that also will lock in the price in today's prices. The pre-paid funds are put into escrow, it is not revocable other than to transfer to another funeral home and cemetery. Those funds do make some modest interest while in escrow. For my mom, it is all fully pre-paid and all picked out down to what she will wear....
Good luck with this. None of this is easy to think about or do. But best for us all to plan and work out most of this well in advance so a hot mess is NOT left in the hands of our children or other relatives.
Power of Attorney stops on death. If you are joint on the account you can still use the funds as you need. If your name is not on the account than you can't use those funds. I actually had the funeral home tell that they would not take a personal check if it only had the deceased name on it. You can ask the funeral home you will be using about a prepaid funeral trust. As POA you can set that up. Hugs.
Get your name on her account as payable upon death!! Yes it will be locked at passing. And the money from the estate may not be available for some time to pay for things. You will need liquid funds when your mother passes, and POA ends at that time. POA doesn’t really give you access to accounts, just the right to pay on your mom’s behalf, which legally are two different things. You might prepay what you can, but get on an account as POD that will cover costs as the estate is probated. We just went through this—I had been put on mom’s acccount as POD just weeks before she suddenly passed. We would be in a bad way right now if I hadn’t done that.
Once my mother appointed me her POA I immediately went to her banks and added my name to her accts as joint owner. I have a durable POA. My 2 siblings remained on the accts as POD. The day she passes I highly doubt my siblings will have issue using my moms money for her funeral expenses. The only other option is splitting the funeral expenses between us. Given we inherit her money anyway it’s a moot issue.
I’m assuming you have siblings which is the reason for this question? Is a sibling giving you an inclination they are not willing to chip in for her funeral? Maybe they have serious money issues? If that’s the case I would definitely get your mom’s funeral expenses prepaid asap. As POA you have the authority to do that. ‘I’m also assuming you are joint owner on your moms account if you are paying her bills etc. If you have no siblings this is a nonissue. You will continue to own her accounts once she passes. Unless your mother has a Will in place leaving all her assets to another person or a charity. If you’re not sure about this just prepay for her funeral to put your mind at ease.
I haven’t prepaid for my moms funeral because my mom can’t handle something like this emotionally. When we were arranging my dads funeral the director asked us about prepaying for her funeral and she almost broke down. She’s extremely sensitive about the subject matter and I don’t want to get her upset. I would not be able to prepay without her finding out either. I chose to make sure my siblings get her bank statements making sure they don’t get any thoughts of me doing anything shady. If they saw a payment to a funeral home they would open their big mouths and tell her.
As POA you can go to just about any funeral home and pre pay. As a reasonable expense, it will not affect Medicaid If you get to that point. If your name is not on her banking account when she passes, you will need to go through probate to get a letter of appointment as executor. Pre COVID it took 3 months in MA.
Medicaid is for the indigent. Unless you were smart and set up an irrevocable trust, or moved your assets to qualify. Of course it needed to be done well before the “look back” period. That was a huge mistake my parents made. I wish I was made aware of this so that I could have informed them. My mom tells me her friend qualifies for Medicaid and was a pharmacist for 50yrs. She asked, why does he qualify? I said because he was smart enough to hire an attorney yrs ago knowing these rules. He not only lives in a beautiful Al but was given a mac daddy electric wheelchair. Haha
We had the POA for an Aunt. When the person is alive, you have access to their funds to pay bills. When she passed away we paid for the funeral costs and then got reimbursed when the Estate settled. It took over a year. The POA has no power once the person passes away. In Canada.
POA ends upon her death. Then an account is set up for the “ estate of so-and-so” accessible only by her Executor. I suggest to prepay for funeral expenses from her funds now. any funeral home can set it up for you.
If you are on the accounts you can still pay her expenses from her, and now also your, accounts. I was my father’s POA and am executor and successor trustee. He passed away last weekend. I am already on his bank accounts so I can continue to use his funds to pay the estates and his final expenses. I paid for his cremation myself and then reimbursed myself from his estate.
I don’t have a direct answer to your question. However, please keep track of all the expenses related to the funeral. When you file her estate tax return, funeral costs are not considered part of her estate for tax purposes.
And as others have pointed out, get another name on her bank accounts. I’m not a pre-pay type of person unless death is imminent.
From my (recent) experience legally managing every aspect of my friend's life, being a POA, and more, when a person dies, funds in a banking institution automatically go into Probate. What I didn't know beforehand is that I do not need to 'do' anything when the funds are in the state of probate (it happens automatically w/o any intervention or need from me). Funds are held in "probate" for (I recall) 45 days, then released. I also was informed that I could not 'take out' funds in his account (before he died) ALTHOUGH I could transfer his funds - which I did - to my account at that same institution.
So...
1st - if you feel a need, contact an attorney.
2nd - Talk to the manager of the banking institution as they all have a bit different legal procedures/responsibilities they adhere to -
3rd - Move some funds in your mom's account 'now' into an account you have or need to open in order to move the funds.
Yes, a POA is no longer a legal document when a person dies. This information should have been communicated / explained to you when you became the POA, if you worked with anyone (an attorney) to set it up.
In my case, I had a Will to back up that I was the person to receive whatever funds were left in the account after the 45 day wait period.
I'm glad--and I'm sure our adult children are, too--that my husband and I (now 93 and 86) prepaid for our cremation 25 years ago. I'm currently reading a very informative book on end-of-life (EOL) care by Michael D. Connelly called, "The Journey's End". Although I've already rejected in writing high-tech medicine "heroic measures", I'm learning more about what I do NOT want to happen when--not if--I am near EOL. Also, why my wishes will need to be strongly defended at the time.
You got that right! My good friend went through hell with how the AI interpreted her mom's living will documents; AI was getting direct money for occupancy. It was horrific, inhumane and, imo, unethical, but there was nothing legally my friend could do. So, when I drew up papers with my mom for her final wishes, we exhausted all the specifics in explicit detail of what she did NOT want medical staff to do. It was a long document, but very effective.
Also be aware that DNRs are only good at the facility where it was executed, and not all facilities are great about keeping that record on file. My state also required an OTHDNR (out of hospital dnr), which is honestly the best way to go. I made several legal copies and kept one posted to the back of the front door for any EMTs or medical personnel; otherwise, they are obligated to do everything thing they can to save a life. Keep final wish documents on your person and copies with your emergency contact person 24/7 because if you/they can't produce it and give it to medical staff responding in the moment, it's no good. They won't take anyone's word for it.
All in all, we had 4 types of executed documents dealing with final wishes to cover all the bases. We tied them together by referencing them to each other so there was no conflict.
Are you on the bank account with her? If yes, you can use those funds. POA does cease to exist at death, so you cannot use funds on an account that you are not on.Funeral coats are reimbursed at probate time. Whoever pays can get reimbursed from the estate if they wish to.
POA ends at death. Can prepay funeral. I did. Mom has only small monthly income. I am also POD on bank account. POD overrides will. I show copy of death certificate and close her checking s account and the few hundred dollars will be mine maybe. The last soc sec check is sent back I hear. My mom has no house or savings so no probate for her. I paid nice funeral out of her house selling money and let her spend the rest in facilities before being broke and living with me.
Robin, if mom lives through the entire month, say January and passes in February, her estate is entitled to the January check that she receives in February.
That is true the Financial POA ends after death and can not legally continue POA duties after the principle dies. Your loved one can prepay and plan their funeral before its needed. The named Executor in the will of the principle assumes responsibility of finances after death of principle. I am my mothers Financial POA and her chosen Executor so the responsibility will continue with one person even after death, in our family.
I was POA for both of my parents. I pre-planned their services but they don’t take payment up front in my case. When Dad died I was able to take care of his affairs on behalf of my Mom who was executer as I was her POA
When my Dad died I hired an estate lawyer and he did a pour over will and told me to be put on my Moms bank account so it wouldn't go into probate. We live in a probate state and her bank account would go into probate so I would not have access to pay her bills etc.
After a person passes only the executor of their will can access their funds. The only exception is if the dead person had a joint account with somebody still alive. In that case, the living person gets all the funds in the account.
Plus my mom & I opened a joint account with her own money. She was starting down the dementia road and was still very active and this was very necessary . A financial planner and I told her that if she put me on the account then in the event of an accident or something then I could step in and keep up on her bills. This is true anyway and it worked great! Mom always has been keen on paying bills on time. For once no drama. It was easy!
I’ve been paying for her extra care expenses via that joint account, and there is some money in there for future funeral expenses. I also like the ‘paper trail’ this keeps as any greedy person who questions my access to her account can see it’s all gone only to mom’s care.
Ues that's all true , yet you need is to prepay with trusting funeral home . Because once mother go home to Glory the states takes and tax her half . you don't get full amount left in account . Reason because they can't recall how much is your balance verse mothers . So know as a POA if mother have high amount balance. Your best bet is get another account just in your name and transfer large amounts . Same bank or another Leave only two months of monthly living in joint account. Since mothers funds go straight to account direct deposit is good. Also strong suggestion since mother still can sign and understand transfer all property in your name. Before dementia gets into level of she wouldn't remember how to sign . Big problem. Converse with Elder Law Because Medicaid will lock up every thing she owns and ask for repayment this is called recovery act . God Bless you hope this assist you
All of these problems will not exist if a child is put on the bank account as co-owner. I am one of 7 of my mom's daughters. I am the medical and durable POA, and over 4 years ago, mom & stepdad put me on their bank accounts with all the legal rights to ownership. Stepdad has passed away, mom has severe dementia, and when she passes, I can do whatever I need to do with her money. I make sure I have kept good records of her expenses so my sisters will know I did things correctly. Paying thousands of dollars for a funeral is such a waste. When mom passes, I will do the same thing that I did for stepdad. There is a no-frills cremation service in the Denver, Co area that will come and pick her up. I fill out the forms online, and it was only $600.00. They were respectful and easy to work with.
No, the bank will shut down her account as soon as they hear (probably from Social Security) that she is deceased.
You have a couple of options (maybe others that I don't know about....): 1. Prepay for the cremation (or what ever the service will be). 2. Make sure she puts you on her account as beneficiary, pay for the funeral expenses yourself, then wait for reimbursal by receiving her account funds after death.
If you have a sibling, you'll need to work it out to get part of the funeral expenses back from them, as the bank will just divide funds in half (if 2 beneficiaries) and mail out the checks.
I would be leary of taking funds out of her account even the day after her death, as POA goes away upon death, and legally that's a slippery slope.
You can check with an elder law attorney, but I'm not sure if this is something they concretely know about. Likely, they would, but this is not a question I ever asked them.
If Mom is still competent, I recommend you being beneficiary of her bank accts. Its called "Pay on Death" (POD). This way the money becomes urs at death and you can use it as u wish.
Once LO passes, POAs are null. Executor of will takes over, if there is a will. Consult an estate attorney for facts and required processes in your state and jurisdiction because they vary on probate requirements.
Many elderly people will keep up their policies. Make sure you have all of this upfront and have your paperwork in a safe place.
Funds from your mother's estate - bank accounts, cash, whatever - can be used to pay for her funeral costs and related expenses, but you'll need a different authorisation. If you are the executor under her will, for example, that would do. Has she made a will?
I'm not sure but others will know: can a POA be used to purchase a funeral plan?
I am also the executor although US states have different names for this such as personal representative in my state of SC. Because I was not listed as beneficiary on the checking account it has taken a month to get that filed with the local court and now I can have access to the joint account I had with my mother as her POA.
But all to say, it would be best for you to get with a Wills, Trust and Estate attorney and/or an Elder Care attorney (if Medicaid is likely to be part of this) licensed in your State (each State has different laws/rules) rather than guessing. Not knowing or not following the law/rules in your State or jurisdiction [PS some counties have unique laws/rules too] (where your LO is especially if you are not in the same State/locality) is no defense; will not give you a pass for any "re do."
Example, where we live near an urban area on the east coast, when my aunt passed her son who lived in a different State assumed he'd do what he knew based on his State. Our local jurisdiction within our State requires that an original Will be presented to the County Registrar of Wills before anything can happen with the estate including naming any Executor to handle just the funeral much less to start the process of handling/closing the estate. Said cousin was appalled that he had to come here -- drive 500+ miles -- just to present an original Will. Further he did NOT want to hand over the original Will which our jurisdiction requires (a copy will not do). This went on for weeks, no burial. I had to get a local Wills, Trust and Estate attorney involved so the original Will could be federal expressed to the lawyer and thereafter the lawyer would help present that document and handle the required legal steps in our State so the cousin would not have to come back and forth over and over except for the funeral. The lawyer was named as his legal representative to handle this in our State/locality and she was paid out of my aunt's estate. It was well worth the cost as it would have been virtually impossible for my out of State cousin to really do all of this other than traveling back and forth over and over to be in person to handle the unique in-person steps our locality mandates.
Hopefully, your mother has a Will drafted by an attorney that names you as Executor. Regardless, worth considering prepaying for the funeral now as that also will lock in the price in today's prices. The pre-paid funds are put into escrow, it is not revocable other than to transfer to another funeral home and cemetery. Those funds do make some modest interest while in escrow. For my mom, it is all fully pre-paid and all picked out down to what she will wear....
Good luck with this. None of this is easy to think about or do. But best for us all to plan and work out most of this well in advance so a hot mess is NOT left in the hands of our children or other relatives.
I’m assuming you have siblings which is the reason for this question? Is a sibling giving you an inclination they are not willing to chip in for her funeral? Maybe they have serious money issues? If that’s the case I would definitely get your mom’s funeral expenses prepaid asap. As POA you have the authority to do that.
‘I’m also assuming you are joint owner on your moms account if you are paying her bills etc. If you have no siblings this is a nonissue. You will continue to own her accounts once she passes. Unless your mother has a Will in place leaving all her assets to another person or a charity.
If you’re not sure about this just prepay for her funeral to put your mind at ease.
I haven’t prepaid for my moms funeral because my mom can’t handle something like this emotionally. When we were arranging my dads funeral the director asked us about prepaying for her funeral and she almost broke down. She’s extremely sensitive about the subject matter and I don’t want to get her upset. I would not be able to prepay without her finding out either. I chose to make sure my siblings get her bank statements making sure they don’t get any thoughts of me doing anything shady. If they saw a payment to a funeral home they would open their big mouths and tell her.
POA ends at moment of death.
I don’t have a direct answer to your question. However, please keep track of all the expenses related to the funeral. When you file her estate tax return, funeral costs are not considered part of her estate for tax purposes.
And as others have pointed out, get another name on her bank accounts. I’m not a pre-pay type of person unless death is imminent.
So...
1st - if you feel a need, contact an attorney.
2nd - Talk to the manager of the banking institution as they all have a bit different legal procedures/responsibilities they adhere to -
3rd - Move some funds in your mom's account 'now' into an account you have or need to open in order to move the funds.
Yes, a POA is no longer a legal document when a person dies.
This information should have been communicated / explained to you when you became the POA, if you worked with anyone (an attorney) to set it up.
In my case, I had a Will to back up that I was the person to receive whatever funds were left in the account after the 45 day wait period.
Gena / Touch Matter
My good friend went through hell with how the AI interpreted her mom's living will documents; AI was getting direct money for occupancy. It was horrific, inhumane and, imo, unethical, but there was nothing legally my friend could do. So, when I drew up papers with my mom for her final wishes, we exhausted all the specifics in explicit detail of what she did NOT want medical staff to do. It was a long document, but very effective.
Also be aware that DNRs are only good at the facility where it was executed, and not all facilities are great about keeping that record on file. My state also required an OTHDNR (out of hospital dnr), which is honestly the best way to go. I made several legal copies and kept one posted to the back of the front door for any EMTs or medical personnel; otherwise, they are obligated to do everything thing they can to save a life. Keep final wish documents on your person and copies with your emergency contact person 24/7 because if you/they can't produce it and give it to medical staff responding in the moment, it's no good. They won't take anyone's word for it.
All in all, we had 4 types of executed documents dealing with final wishes to cover all the bases. We tied them together by referencing them to each other so there was no conflict.
SS is paid one month in the arrears.
When my Dad died I hired an estate lawyer and he did a pour over will and told me to be put on my Moms bank account so it wouldn't go
into probate. We live in a probate state and her bank account would go into probate so I would not have access to pay her bills etc.
Plus my mom & I opened a joint account with her own money. She was starting down the dementia road and was still very active and this was very necessary . A financial planner and I told her that if she put me on the account then in the event of an accident or something then I could step in and keep up on her bills. This is true anyway and it worked great! Mom always has been keen on paying bills on time. For once no drama. It was easy!
I’ve been paying for her extra care expenses via that joint account, and there is some money in there for future funeral expenses. I also like the ‘paper trail’ this keeps as any greedy person who questions my access to her account can see it’s all gone only to mom’s care.
Joint account has worked really well for me.
Because once mother go home to Glory the states takes and tax her half . you don't get full amount left in account . Reason because they can't recall how much is your balance verse mothers .
So know as a POA if mother have high amount balance. Your best bet is get another account just in your name and transfer large amounts . Same bank or another Leave only two months of monthly living in joint account.
Since mothers funds go straight to account direct deposit is good.
Also strong suggestion since mother still can sign and understand transfer all property in your name. Before dementia gets into level of she wouldn't remember how to sign . Big problem. Converse with Elder Law Because Medicaid will lock up every thing she owns and ask for repayment this is called recovery act . God Bless you hope this assist you
You have a couple of options (maybe others that I don't know about....):
1. Prepay for the cremation (or what ever the service will be).
2. Make sure she puts you on her account as beneficiary, pay for the funeral expenses yourself, then wait for reimbursal by receiving her account funds after death.
If you have a sibling, you'll need to work it out to get part of the funeral expenses back from them, as the bank will just divide funds in half (if 2 beneficiaries) and mail out the checks.
I would be leary of taking funds out of her account even the day after her death, as POA goes away upon death, and legally that's a slippery slope.
You can check with an elder law attorney, but I'm not sure if this is something they concretely know about. Likely, they would, but this is not a question I ever asked them.