Anyone have experience with reverse mortgage & Medicaid?
My mom has been living in a nursing home for the last 5 months.
She’s had Medicaid for 35 yrs & when she was admitted to the skilled nursing part there was also another application to Medicaid to cover her long term care to stay there.
Currently she (I’m her poa) has been paying the NH the monthly “rent” (they get mom’s SocSec & SSI) - $30 she gets to keep as spending money.
My mom still has her home which has a reverse mortgage on it.
The year isn’t up where they require notification that she won’t be returning so legally she is still able to access the money from her RM.
The question is my mom has already been thru the 5 yr lookback w/Medicaid (RM was taken out in 1997) and her house was put in trust to me then as well).
My mom wants to take out the remaining $40,000 she has from her RM & give it to me so I can buy a home to live in.
The rules have always been when my mom would request funds, the RM back would call her to verify it was her as a method of security.
This time my mom will have to speak w/them at the nursing home since she’s not living at home & has her house phone turned off.
She’s afraid if she tells them she won’t be returning home, they will cancel her loan & she won’t be able to get the funds.
There is the possibility that some of that money will be used to bring my mom back to her home (to die w/hospice coming) because she doesn’t want to die in the NH, but that will cost $ out of pocket so she would use the RM money to pay for that.
We’re advised NOT to tell the RM bank about this & just say that she IS coming home so there won’t be any issues with them giving my mom her money.
Is this doable??
24 Answers
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I’ll call the cdelaw.org to see if they can help.
Really appreciate knowing about them. XO
I really, really think you should consult an attorney on this. If Medicaid doesn't like the transfer, I'd worry they'd look to you as POA and the recipient of the transfer. If you are entitled to transfer the RM money without any penalty, getting legal advice will help you have peace of mind and should protect you. I think this is one of those times that getting over the inclination to avoid the immediate stress of contacting an attorney will be worth the peace of mind and avoidance of hassles later on.
Re: POA, different organizations may request that you provide evidence of your POA individually. Although the NH recognized it, the bank needs to verify also.
I hope you will talk to someone who is familiar with RMs and the Medicaid laws in IL. It seems like a complicated situation, and both the government and bank will want to get as much as they can. I hope you will take care and seek the advice of a professional with experience who can look out for you and your mom's best interests. I hope you are doing all right.
I spoke to the hospice nurse about not getting the doctors letter from the NH administrator & the nurse said she’d be able to get it for me since she knows I need it in order to do anything w/mom’s house.
So I’m waiting for that.
I don't know that you mentioned it until today:
" however you must remember the RM bank will NOT recognize me as my mom’s POA because the NH has yet been able to issue me the doctors letter saying that my mom’s not able to make decisions."
Usually it is NOT the Nursing Home's responsibility to contact a doctor to have the person declared "incompetent" as that could be considered a "conflict of interest" with the Nursing Home. It is the family's responsibility and that of their attorney to contact the doctor(s) and have the family member declared "incompetent".
I was lucky because my Mom’s Durable POA document states:
“I declare that this power of attorney shall not be affected by my disability or incapacity and that the authority granted herein shall continue during any period while I am disabled or incapacitated.” So as soon as Mom was admitted to the hospital and then the Nursing Home, I was able evoke my Power of Attorney.
Added: Here are some websites that you can COPY and PASTE onto your browser that tell you how to declare someone incompetent.
https://legalbeagle.com/5122660-declare-someone-mentally-incompetent.html
https://www.reference.com/health/declare-someone-mentally-incompetent-f190f43465b6edc5
http://orlowskywilson.com/articles/estate-planning/what-to-do-if-your-parent-or-spouse-is-incompetent/
https://info.legalzoom.com/legally-incapacitated-vs-legally-incompetent-21238.html
She said “oh we don’t that, we only would write & correspond w/Medicare & Medicaid”.
So either she’s ignorant & doesn’t know that it IS permissible to get their doctor to write the letter or she’s lying to me.
Neither one is acceptable, but she’s got the power so what can I do??
I think the idea of bringing mom home with full time care could be the "line" that you use to get mom to talk to the lawyer. Although, in your shoes, I'd examine that idea with great caution before acting upon it. But you really need to get, and take, expert legal advice in this situation.
So I’m not able to make any requests for the money from the RM.
And my mom DOES NOT know what’s going on as far as her house eventually given back to the RM bank because the hospice nurse has advised me NOT to upset her by telling her “she’s not going home”..
So again, I’m stuck.
Can’t do anything to move forward or better the situation.
It’s very, very frustrating.
I’m wondering what’s going to happen now or in the near future?
How will the RM bank get possession of my mom’s house?
They won’t be getting any keys from me since they’re refusing to acknowledge me.
What happens when a house gets foreclosed on & theres no friends or family to deal w/the bank on behalf of the deceased person?
Do they just get the police to break into the house?
What would anyone know?
That mom has a lawyer?
I did a SEARCH of "reverse mortgages and Medicaid" and these are just some of the websites that were listed.
Added: So what if an attorney comes to visit your Mom at the Nursing Home? Lots of residents need to talk to their attorney to set up/revise their will or POA or sell their property or pay taxes or whatever. You can meet privately with your Mom and the attorney in a conference room or in your Mom's room (after asking if the roommate can leave the room for the duration of the meeting). None of the nursing home staff are required or should attend this meeting.
Up until this point, the social worker hasn’t been much help to me anyway.
You need to consult with an elder law attorney. Use mom's money. Or what Barb said.
Monitoring by Medicaid may very well be continuous.
https://www.onereversemortgage.com/blog/2015/05/how-reverse-mortgages-affect-medicaid-and-medicare/
The short version is "consult an attorney". If mom takes a large sum out of RM, it will disqualify her from Medicaid. In your shoes, I'd find an eldercare attorney who will give you a free consult. If you need more advice than that, withdraw enough to cover her/his retainer.
https://www.onereversemortgage.com/blog/2015/05/how-reverse-mortgages-affect-medicaid-and-medicare/
https://www.caring.com/questions/reverse-mortgage-mecicade-medicaire
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/reverse-mortgages-affect-medicaid-153250.htm
Mom can take some of that RM money and use it for a consultation. Find an attorney who will come to the NH and speak to both of you, perhaps with the social worker there.
A reverse mortgage doesn’t affect Medicaid because it’s not considered income (& not taxable btw).
In my opinion, you should consult an attorney. What you are proposing sounds as if it might be fraud. You might have other options to access the money without getting yourself into a legal problem. The social worker at your mom's residence might be able to guide you to legal aid resources.
I would be careful about taking legal advice from a forum such as this. We are really more a support group. People can tell you their own experiences, but you need a legal opinion from someone who has seen your mom's RM contract.
Please note that Medicaid is funded by us taxpayers so it wouldn't be fair if Mom has money and she "gifts" it to someone else. Not many people realize this thus are not familiar with the ins and outs of Medicaid.
If your Mom wants to return home, with a Reverse Mortgage as you know, Mom would need to return back to her house within that one year spanned.
Curious as to whom had advised you not to notify the Reverse Mortgage bank that Mom will not be coming home? Your Mom would be in breach of her Reverse Mortgage contract.