Anyone else out there losing friends?

Can I ask why giving up POA is "insane"?

You are right that sometimes "we" as caregivers just need an ear, a shoulder. But you need to start the conversation with..."I just need to vent, I do not need suggestions at this moment" "When I am a bit more centered and focused then I might be able to listen to suggestions" "But right now I just need a safe place to let off steam"
It is difficult sometimes to see what others are going through and not give suggestions. However if those suggestions are coming from someone that has never been a caregiver you can take those suggestions with a grain of salt.
Finding a good in person Support group helps. This group is great but talking to real people in real time does make a difference.
And if you are not seeing a therapist you might want to think about that. Just talking does help.

Let us say you had never been born and your Mother had never had any other children?
What then, for your Mother?
She would then be a ward of the state, and they would care for her.
You say that it is insane to think of not being her POA but to me that word would be more appropriately applied to someone who has been abused all their lives, and still is abused, but insists on remaining a caregiver.
You describe yourself as having had a stroke from participating in the attempt to provide for this woman, who without you would be provided for by being in in-facility care. Still you march on.
And yes, people will get tired of the same stories, the same litanies of woe, of giving advice you do not take to extricate yourself from this. They will either not want to hear it, or will feel that hearing it is harmful to themselves. They will leave, and only the paid therapists will be there; it's their job.
That is all the hard truth. Trust me, I understand. Your Mother groomed you for this job all your life and you now cannot imagine not doing it. You took on the POA and once that is done it is difficult to stop it, esp. if the senior has descended into any dementia. It would be a legal process to extricate yourself at this point. HOWEVER, your Mother does have a social worker assigned to her case, and you CAN access that person to tell her that DUE TO YOUR OWN ILLNESS and mental and physical limitations you cannot continue to serve as your Mom's POA, and you would like to resign that position.
I think you are not losing friends because they "do not get eldercare". I think you are losing them because there is no longer any JOY and happiness in your relationships with them. They feel desperate to help and helpless to help. They begin to feel it in their OWN best mental health interests to move on.
I am so sorry for all you are suffering, and all you are doing, and all you are sacrificing. But if I had been raised by an abusive person, partaking of their lives in adulthood simply would not have happened.
Again, I am sorry. I would love to see you seek therapy of a licensed social worker in private practice to sort out choices and options for your life. I know what I have said sounds to you heartless. But I cannot imagine other friends have not told you some of this already.
My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best.

You should resign your POA. Do do OTHERWISE would be insane.

You are preventing your mother from getting the help she NEEDS.

You should also read the book Never Simple by Liz Scheier. Ms. Scheier also had a mentally ill mom. She tried her best but realized that ONLY the authorities of the State of NY would be able to force her mother into care.

dear OP, my experience is that anyone who hasn't cared for an elderly LO can't fully understand. they might empathize a bit - but they can't really understand. you have to go through it yourself to really understand.

one has to be careful OP, who one spills one's guts to. it can be very frustrating to let it all out to the wrong person, who doesn't understand you, who doesn't get you, who doesn't empathize. you'll feel worse than before you spilled your guts out.

as for advice, and lectures, from friends...
it's really easy, and sometimes irresponsible, to tell someone, "all you have to do is, X, Y, Z"...
they're not the ones who have to live with the consequences. you do. and X, Y, Z might indeed be totally wrong.

i wish you, and everyone here on the forum, courage and strength. and wisdom, to find a good way forward.

huggggg.

bundle of joy :)

Why is it insane to give up POA for a severely mentally ill mother who's now going down the dementia highway (as they all seem to do)? You had a stroke 2 weeks after she went home after caring for her during covid, you can't get your hands to stop shaking, yet you won't take any common sense advice given to you by friends you reach out to for help? What they "get" that you don't seem to is that YOU may die (God forbid) before your mother, if you don't make some big changes here stat! You don't want to hear what they're saying to you, and they're getting stressed out hearing how utterly at wits end YOU are dealing with this woman!

Everybody is here for us until they realize we're doing absolutely nothing to help ourselves pull out of the quicksand that's rapidly engulfing us. Maybe if you let your friends know your plan to disentangle yourself from your mom's affairs a bit, perhaps then they'd be more available for you.

All this I say with YOUR best interests at heart. Sometimes we have to concern ourselves more with our own well being and leave elders with lifelong mental illness issues to the care of the state. You jumping in to care for her and "save" her prevents her from being placed in managed care where she'd be cared for by teams of people instead of one exhausted daughter.

Best of luck to you.

I have to chime in again...
One of the first things "we" are told, or we tell others is YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF FIRST.
You were abused by a woman that bore you.
You are under no obligation to care for her just because she is your mother. I would not expect anyone that has been abused to care for their abuser. It does not matter if the abuse was/is emotional, physical, psychological or any other name you want to put on it.
If you give up POA she will still get her laundry done, will still get her medications delivered, will get all her other needs met. AND there is a good possibility that she will get this done by someone that (and I hate to use this word) cares about her more than you do. And it is very likely that nothing will change for the foreseeable future, she may still have the same aides. The thing that will change is the person that has control over her Health and Finances that would be a Court Appointed Guardian. I can understand you wanting to remain POA if your mom had a fortune and you were trying to protect your possible inheritance but that is not the case.
Seriously think about stepping aside for your own health.
Or enlighten me as to why giving up POA is "insane"

Forget about what other people say. It’s water under the bridge. It no longer matters.

If you need to lick your wounds and many of us have that need, may I recommend that you speak to someone who has walked in your shoes and more importantly a therapist.

You should do whatever is best for you. I’m sorry that you are hurting. Caregiving is hard.

Wishing you peace as you move forward.

You lose your friends because you have become more of a liability to them, rather than an even exchange.

Your friend has given you suggestions that you have rejected. For all we know, there could have been a lot more that you responded in a negative way. After all your responses and the negatives, she may feel that you are "friends" with her for what she can give to you, which you just throw it back in her face and ridicule her for the idea. The little bit that you shared with us, sounds like the texts were insulting her intelligence.

In your defense, you may not have realized how your texts or reactions to her text may have affected her. Because we don't get physical cues from texts and emails, it is very easy for a text or email to be misinterpreted.

Yes, she doesn't understand. However, she may never understand. If the only reason you are friends is because of the help she can provide while you take care of your Mom, you are abusing your friendship.

Any friendship that is one-sided, usually does not last.

If you want to keep the friendship, I suggest you apologize and share funny stories only, no seeking advice. I would look to other resources (like therapy or this forum) on how to deal with your Mom.

I suggest you use this opportunity as a caregiver to grow your "friend" network and find others who are willing to share your burden with you on this journey.

Your friend is trying to be there for you but you shoot down every suggestion she makes. After awhile she has decided is just isn't worth trying anymore. From her perspective you just vent about your situation without doing anything to change it. After awhile people get tired of hearing about it. I had the same experience when I went through a divorce. It consumed my life and my friends were great...for awhile. But after a year they were just plain tired of hearing about it. Your friend is coming from a good place, she wants to help you but she doesn't know how. Tell her what you need. She keeps guessing and you keep telling her she is wrong.

You are right that since she is not going through this she has no idea. Find a support group that does understand your perspective.

The other posters who said give up the POA are right. Dealing with your mom is threatening your health. If you end up hospitalized, who would take over. Stop being her caretaker and go back to being a daughter.

I do see ur point about POA, its a tool that can be used without you ever seeing Mom. If Dementia is now in the picture, I may place her using Medicaid. I would talk to her caseworker saying that Mom is ready for the next level. Once you get her all set up in LTC then give up your POA. Check with the lawyer who drew up the paperwork to see how u formally need to give up POA. Maybe he can draw up a letter to the fact also telling all involved that you are turning Mom over to the State. You can then walk away. Never have to be involved with Mom again.

IMO its not understanding what is involved in caregiving, its not understanding that because of abuse as a child that its very hard to break away. Some children would have backed away as soon as they graduated from High School never to return. Then there are others that keep hanging on hoping the parent will appreciate what they are doing and love them for it. No, its not Moms fault she is mentally ill but you do not have to take the abuse.

It would be nice if we knew what suggestions your friend made that were not doable. I think your lucky that your friend was upfront with you. She could have ghosted you. Think about what your friend said. Have you been using her as a sounding board. This shaking you can't seem to get rid of, maybe it is a sign, you need help and she is cannot be it because you need professional help at this point. A therapist should be your sounding board not ur friend.

Give yourself time to think this thru and except friend maybe right. Then call her and apologize. Tell her you didn't realize how much u were putting on her. Then, ask if you can have lunch together. You promise not to mention Mom.

Regarding your actual question about losing friends:

The age of the friend or their familiarity with eldercare is irrelevant. Your friend is telling you that yours is a one-sided friendship where you dump your woes on her, ignore her suggestions, and expect her to carry your monkey on her back while dealing with what her own life brings. In short, your friendship is a one-sided "shut and listen to me complain as I refuse to change my circumstances" relationship.

That's not a friendship, that's a therapist, and you aren't even paying her. I'd be done with you, too. (And yes, I've been in your friend's situation before, and I, too, walked away.)

I understand you have a terrible situation, but I suggest you do get some therapy and work on resolving your problems and working to fix your friendship if you value it.

I've been thinking about this since you posted.

My mom had dementia. My best friend's mom had dementia. We took two very different paths.

I occasionally suggested to her that her mom might do well in Assisted Living or a Nursing Home, but she adamantly rejected the suggestion. Her mother remained in her own apartment with 24/7 aides (this is in NYC, where you can get such a thing).

There were emergencies--call outs with no aide to step in, where my friend had to go racing across the city to get to her mom, ambiguous medical problems where my friend had to go see for herself what was happening, but it was clear that this was HER choice and she was not going to be dissuaded. So I dropped making the suggestion.

But it sounds to me like you are destroying your life and health doing this. If I'd thought THAT was the path my friend was going down, I probably would have had to step away, too.

I think sometimes we think a friend should always agree with us and take our side simply for the sake of friendship. But, a good friend will want what is best for us and if they see that we are making bad choices that are hurting us they as friends will tell us.

I don't think your friend ever meant to be hurtful to you but sees you going down a bad path and just can't watch and be a party to it anymore.

Whether it was eldercare or another issue, your friend wants the best for you I'm sure and also deserves more from you than to just be your sounding board.

I hope you don't take these responses as being too harsh. It's called "Tough Love"

Hi EMA - I actually think that your friend's words were a bit harsh - she could have spoken in a more sensitive and diplomatic way. It's easy for someone to give advice from afar when they aren't the one going thru a situation, so they really do not understand what it feels like to be in a care giving role.

I've learned to be more mindful not to share my family situation with the majority of my friends.

EMA153,
Many caregivers lose friends because they get so busy they cannot go out with friends anymore. Or a couple is no longer able to go out with another couple because one spouse was ill. It is a common occurrence for caregivers.

Others lose friends because, the topic of caregiving is almost harder to listen to than actually change that diaper. imo. Some things cannot be fixed, we know.
But a friend shares other things too.

Don't ask your friends to listen to your caregiving burdens. Seeing and talking to a friend should be a break for you, enjoyable for you both. It is not that the topic is taboo, but what are your younger friend's interests?

There are some very good friends that can mentor others, give advice. That is only one type of friendship though. Is it reciprocal? You called it a lecture?
Maybe that is how the friend thinks she is loving towards you. Maybe that is all she can offer. You can find other friends, many types of friends. If you need a therapist, don't use your friend as one.

Friend groups like the caregivers on this forum can talk a kind of shorthand because they have been there, or are there. They just know what you mean.
But it is always good to share a variety of topics, like on the General Topics thread.

Have you tried a post-stroke support group for yourself?

Most important---be a good friend. And if advice is shared, there is no need to reject it, you don't have to take the advice. Just receive it and be grateful.
It is okay to disagree, but you don't need to make their advice that may not have been helpful to you the subject of a disagreement or discussion.

If I were to tell you to go color in a coloring book tonight before bed, are you going to come back and tell me my advice is ridiculous? So, be a friend, and be friendly is all I can think to help you. Going your own ways happens. It may not be something you have done.

I think you were asking your friend for something you needed (in your own way), and her response was to find the fault with you: "I'm spiraling downward and that I seem to want her to hold my hand and pull her down with me, and that I'm triggering her". That is a narcissist response, imo.

Be grateful for some time apart from this friend, whom you value.

Sendhelp is right. To have a friend you have to be one too. Many caregivers are no longer able to keep up their end of things then get angry that they don't see their friends as often. We have had posters on here that are upset that a friend has the nerve to talk about good things in their lives (ex vacations) when the poster is stuck at home. No one is going to want to be around a person who is negative and angry all the time. It sounds like you do have a good friend but when you constantly dump on her and tell her she is wrong she will distance herself and rightfully so.

In our mid 20’s, my two year younger sister and her husband’s young daughter got leukemia. My husband and I had no children, and this was the firstborn of two grandchildren, both my sisters & husbands. We were all very young, this was tragic, and hard, like memory loss disease, only we were all young, not older people.

What I did for them, was try to be there and make their life easier. In anyway I could. I wrote the letter that approved their home being returned, in deed of lieu. No hit to credit, but they lived in the country, and were driving to the big city, with both kids, 150 miles RT, for a four year old child’s chemo, five days a week. So many tough situations. This was 35 years ago, when kids died more regularly from this cancer. Treatment was in another state at that time, three hour plane ride. Very expensive, heart breaking.

I remember saying endlessly to people, that I had no idea what it would be like to be going thru what they were. Years of chemo, medical trips, pain, pain, pain in their young child. I had been a very sick child myself, hospitalized often for severe asthma, but I was not a parent, and did not know “what it was like and exactly what my sister and family were enduring”. I only knew to listen, to let her vent, cry, say what she needed to, but not everyone can do that for their loved one, close friend, co-worker, etc..

The same way my friends do not truly understand what it is like to have my dysfunctional family, with two elders, in their mid 80’s, living in their condo, with their youngest daughter, who insists on taking care of everything. Which is how my parents wanted things, and they are unreal close. I have a two year younger sister, we were raised with the same parents, who were young having us, and that is who I confide in, and on this forum. Our two youngest sisters were born later on. I choose wisely who I share with, cause it is too tough to explain all our situations, and “why I do not change it”. Yea, nope. One day at a time. I’m just trying to end all days with peace, and ready for when all hell eventually breaks loose.

The only part I want to address, really, is that, no, your friend has no way of knowing what your life is like, a situation you allowed yourself to be put in, and she’s just trying to help you. Please take care of yourself, and honestly, if I did not have my sister, husband and daughter, my listeners, my advisors, the ones who help me beyond measure, my mind would be in chaos, my FOG out of control. I live sober, 38 plus years, so I know I would be ok, but not happy, joyous and free, most of the time, after a long struggle to get there. That happened the end of 2022, and I wish that for you. But it is hard work, and having folks who really can help, is good. Therapists are good, if you do not have others. Take care.

Finding new friends and drifting apart from others is part of the reality of life and is something that for most people is continually happening. The very best ones will endure through thick and thin.

But you also need to ask yourself …Are you being a very best friend to others? Is being around you exhausting? Your post about your life is very negative. You may respond “well, that is just where I am right now, everything is horrid.”

There are positive things about your life, even now. It isn’t hard to look and find someone with more problems. There are tragedies, wars, severe illnesses, since you live in NY, 9/11 stories, the list is endless. If you pick up just about any paper or magazine (or your cell phone), you can read true life stories of people who have made it through even tougher times than you are surviving right now. Use their examples as inspiration to help you make it through your troubles. Be grateful. .

You need to find the positivity and joy in your own life. If you simply cannot, it is not your mother’s fault, or the universe’s fault, you may need medical help to stabilize your emotions. Talk to your doctor.

And ask yourself, when I call or meet my friend, do I ever stop my downward spiraling soliloquy of my sorrows and anger to ask my friend for one split second, “and how are YOU?”

Send your friend flowers and thank her for helping you see the light. She is a true friend. It is tough to give such feedback. Go to lunch or dinner or for drinks or for a walk and spend the entire time asking her about her -and listening- instead of just talking about yourself. Make this your resolution for all your relationships. Ask about their problems. Care about their cares, Share the stage.

Be a friend and you will have plenty of friends.

Oh yes…the advice to “do self care”. To “take a week off”..”ignore your moms not eating”. And my favorite “step back”.. Friends just can not get this. I worked 27 yrs with dementia patients and their children and really thought I was compassionate. Now I see I did NOT get it at all! Until you watch a parent disintegrate in front of you ….you can not fathom the pain, the workload or the stress! I am in counseling which helps take the edge off but it does not remove the work involved. I finally told my friends their advice is not helpful. I also feel being around someone who is always talking about their dementia parent is not fun. I have one friend who seems to really want the truth everyone else wants me to say…I am fine. I pay someone to hear my darkest thoughts. That IS helpful.

Back when my mom started to decline, I shared my daily frustrations with friends who quickly greatly resented my venting. It was an awakening.

I find it sad that people who were abused as children and even as adults feel responsibility to care for their abuser. I understand the “whys” of it, and realize that very complex emotions are involved in these relationships but at some point you have to chose your life and peace over theirs. What your friend is trying to tell you is that you keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, and honestly it’s exhausting and stressful watching a friend spiral and be too frozen to make any meaningful changes. After a while you feel as if you are enabling them, and you back away.

It’s time to place your mother. Put her somewhere where she is cared for and safe and know you have done all you can for her. You can continue to be her POA if you wish but you won’t have to see her unless you want to. Save yourself. Now.

In many cases, caregiving is a choice, looking from the outside in I can appreciate your friends' feelings about the issue, knowing that there may be other choices.

Some people's lives are consumed by caregiving, they no longer have a life of their own, all conversations and thoughts revolve around the person in need.

Many times, friends are lost over the caregiver's overabundance of negative verbiage and conversations that always revolves around caregiving of the LO.

Currently have 2 in homes, one AL the other MC, yes my brother & I have responsibilities in their regard, however, when we leave from visiting them, we lead our lives, not theirs, we shut the caregiving switch off, if we have to discuss an issue about one of them we do, however, we do not converse about them after that particular issue is resolved. It's kind of like separating Church & State.

And, if we are asked about them and how they are doing, we respond otherwise, we don't bring them up.

Honestly, if I had a friend that only talked about their caregiving issues and were all consumed by this role, I would have to back away as well. I do not thrive on negativity whether it be due to elder care or whatever.

Being a friend is a two way street, and keeping one requires a lot of dedication to the process. I have left several of mine behind because of all the drama involved with trying to be their friend.

I wish you the very best, maybe some therapy would be of a benefit to you.

I think you need to put your mother in someone else's hands. Your health is seriously at risk. Your brief mention of a stroke buried in your question about your friend is the real issue here. And it's the same thing your friend is warning you about--you're not taking care of yourself.

I cared for both my parents in the last year, after my dad had an accident that left him paralyzed. My sister helped. I look 10 years older, and my PTSD has gotten worse. My back went out all the time. My sister and I both felt we were losing our minds. Our parents have the financial resources to get help and after my father got worse, and required more hands-on moving last week, we hired caregivers for days and evenings every day of the week, so we could get a break.

You must set yourself free. I hate to tell you that. It's very hard, and there's a lot of anxiety and guilt attached to it. But remember the abuse you suffered as a child, listen to that inner child, she's screaming out for you to take care of her.

Your friend is only mirroring your own fears about your mother that you may not be acknowledging--you are spiraling, you are in trouble, you need to take a step back from your mother who is bringing you down with her.

This is all coming from my heart because I do really know what you're going through. Much love to you and I hope you find peace and are able to release this burden.

I think most people 'don't get' eldercare unless they've done it. Makes you feel misunderstood and isolated.

I think your friend, even though she has good intentions, is 'triggered' because you're not following her advice. It's a little bit narcissistic.

One thing I heard that I thought was a good idea, was when discussing a problem with a loved one, to say whether you are looking to vent, or you are looking for advice/solutions.

If you want advice - I might tell your friend that you love her and appreciate all the support she's provided. And then take a bit of space, sounds like you both need it.
XO

Your friend is right. Do not involve yourself with someone who is abusive to you. If she starves or freezes to death alone in her apartment… meh, nothing of value lost. I’m sure the world will keep spinning without one abusive old woman in it.

No one gets it until they have actually done it.

One day, you should take your friend with you, so that she can see what it's really like.

Or, you should video one of your mom's episodes, and show it to your friend.

However, you might need to stop "bothering" your friend with your messages. She'll never get it until it happens to her.

Instead, join a support group. The Alzheimer's Dementia Caregiver's FB Support Group is a great place where you can vent without judgment.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dementiacaregiversupportgroup/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT

EMA, what a terrible situation you're in! I hope you have a good therapist so you can vent and who can help you compartmentalize. I know how all-consuming a situation like yours can be.

I think your friend has a point if this is all you talk about these days. Listening is an important part of friendship, but if you're going over the same ground over and over, expressing your frustration again and again, her response is understandable.

Regarding your awful mother, the only advice I can think of is that you keep as much distance as possible (block her phone number at night, hire people if that's possible to clean her apartment and drive her to her appointments. You have POA, so it doesn't have to be YOU who does everything for her.

I hope you'll inherit a ton someday. Sounds like you deserve it.

Things it can make you lose your friends, please when something like this happened to you, don’t worry at all, sometimes it is good they leave you alone, thanks God about this, because I had experience about so many friends, some are good, and some are terrible, sometime they can came to you and listing about more information’s about what you are going through and go behind your back and say a different things about,  when they see you are see them, all they do is start rounding away from you.
MATILDA

Your younger friend with the vibrant Mom has no way to understand "how it feels" to have a situation like yours. Your mother will outlive you, at the rate you are operating. You have already been given the giant WARNING from God and the Universe, that you are unable to cope with being POA any longer. That warning came in the form of a Stroke. The next stroke will either kill you or render you 'disabled' as my Dad's stroke did him. My Dad spent 11 years in a terribly impaired state after a stroke at age 69 years. You texted your young friend just needing to know "she was there for you" Apparently, she is unable to 'be there' to watch your downspiral and disintegration. Just as you were unable to extricate yourself when your mother subjected you to abuse as a child: You are still unable to extricate yourself at present when the abuse and stress continue. The stroke was a 'gift' to you, if you will listen to the 'still small voice' that is telling your to turn over the POA to a state agency who will then manage your mother's health needs, finances, etc., and will likely place her in care where her Dementia can be dealt with (along with her mental illness markers). Your mother will be taken care of in a facility with a state-appointed Social Worker overseeing her needs. It's apparent that you have suffered horribly at the hands of your mother. You can continue to 'honor your mother' by giving over the supervision of her to an accredited care facility where her needs will be medically and financially overseen. Please share in therapy with a skilled practitioner "the message that was sent to you in the form of a frightening stroke"..

First off I hate that your friend used the new word of the day “trigger, it is being used entirely too much and the what heck do we care if we say or ask something that “triggers” another person?…it’s freakin life! But to answer your question, yes, being tied down to watching my soon to be 96 yr old father-in-law in our home has caused us to not be able to just pick up and go. Friends give what in their minds are solution to a problem but it is just not feasible. No one understands unless they’ve been through it. So you lose contact with them and all of a sudden they’re doing things with others who don’t have an elder they’re caring for. I don’t have an answer for you, and I know I sound awful in saying it, but not until someone else takes over their care entirely will you have any peace of mind.