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I got a call early this morning and when I answered there was no caller. I saw it was from a relative so I called back and clearly heard a hang up. I feared it was about my aunt in a nursing home, so I sent a text message. Surprisingly he answered my text. It later dawned on me that he wanted my answer in writing. He asked about a withdrawal I made from my aunt's bank account because "the facility" was questioning it.


I replied that they can ask me directly (I am POA) and provided my contact information and address (which he has). To further cooperation, I explained that when I reviewed my aunt's bank account she was over the amount of the eligibility for Medicaid, perhaps from the covid stimulus, and I withdrew the amount to maintain her eligibility for the yearly certification. This would be the same response I would give to 'the facility' if they in fact called. This money was spent on miscellaneous items she might appreciate.


Since this relative asked about the small amount I withdrew, I asked about the larger amount which was withdrawn with the stimulus deposited. As the POA, I have no problem being transparent. He said his withdrawal was not the amount in question and not relevant. I doubt that my cousin uses these words and felt it was someone from adult protective services asking these questions. The facility director is more friendly with my relative as the medical POA, however has treated me with suspicion. As the financial POA, I have tried to stick with the responsibility at hand and dismiss the negative suspicion.


I have a full plate with my mother, this covid, and her home, along with maintaining my sanity. I communicate with my aunt weekly by phone but there is not much more I can do than make sure her bills are paid. It's such a sad situation.


How should I follow up on the money my cousin withdrew without explanation to me as the POA.

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I am so confused. "he said his withdrawal was not the amount in question and not relevant?" What in the world does that mean. YOU are the financial POA, right? How is it that he is withdrawing ANYTHING. You owe him no explanation. You are FPOA and you are keeping thorough records in case he would like to bring you into court. Next time he has a question give him the verbal middle finger and tell him if he has cause for concern he can bring a court action. Meanwhile keep your careful records and do your jobs, and IGNORE phone calls, period. No texting. I honestly do not know HOW anyone withdraws money from an account of your Aunt's for whom you are POA. Something major is missing in all that. That sounds like fraud to me unless "this relative " (I am a bit disconcerted that you refuse to tell us his relationship to your Aunt and to yourself. Is he a son? A spouse? What?) has his name on some of your Aunt's accounts.
As we always say on Forum, off to the Lawyer you go, if there is some suspicion of fraud being perpetrated on an Aunt you have FPOA for.
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Pasa18 Nov 2020
AD, sorry I seem cryptic. I just don't want the association with this relative. He is my cousin. The darkness of human nature has somewhat put me into a state of being numb. His call this morning was a wake up call.

My aunt has no living children and her husband passed. She has only nieces and nephews. In 2010 she moved to CA to be with family and appointed me as secondary POA and another nephew as primary (however he resigned). It was confusing to me as well: I believed that she assigned the cousin in question as the new poa when she chose to live with his family. His wife took care of my aunt's banking. I did not involve myself with her financial decisions for a decade. There was no record of the FPOA when she was hospitalized until I produced what I thought was an old one. The primary poa nephew said he did not want the responsibility and signed a withdrawal letter. I gave that poa and resignation to the facility, bank, etc. I reviewed my aunt's financials and put everything on automatic and review. Other than the pandemic stimulus and small amounts there is nothing apparently wrong. Any amount could be explained as an arrangement they previously had. My relative and his wife have taken over my aunt's by adding their name to her account after I produced the poa and the facility refuses to acknowledge the poa. I did call APS about the joint account but nothing came of it although I reported that she was in a nursing facility which requires an ombudsman usually. Yes, as poa it is my ballpark still.
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Found the article concerning how the stimulus can be spent.


EXAMPLE:
An unmarried resident receives $1,050 monthly Social Security benefit and has $1,800 in savings. Each 
month she pays the nursing facility $1,000 from her income, and keeps $50 for personal needs.
After receiving the $1,200 stimulus payment in May 2020, her payment obligation to the nursing facility 
does not change. She continues to pay $1,000 monthly. 
After receiving the stimulus payment, her savings will increase from $1,800 to $3,000. To retain 
Medicaid eligibility, she must spend down her savings to under $2,000 within a year—before May 2021. 

Are There Restrictions on How I Can Spend the Stimulus Money?

In general, a resident can spend the stimulus money as they wish, including gifts and charitable 
contributions. This is the resident’s money to spend on their wants and needs.
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Pasa18 Nov 2020
thank you
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Soutnds to me that too many hands are in the pot.

There should only be one POA and One Person allowed to withdraw funds and that person can be held responsible.

There should be no question regarding withdrawals from the Facility, as it's none of their business.

As far as your cousin goes, whomever takes out money should be written in a ledger that shows what it was used for along with receipts.

I have a 96 yr old Dad that I am his POA znd Executrix of his Will and what I did was just add my name to his Bank Act and write checks or do auto bill pay and that is your record of spending. In case anyone else would like to know.

The only people you would need to show proof to in the end after the Loved One dies, would be whoever is in the Will that was being left part of his estate
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Isabelsdaughter Nov 2020
I agree
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You need to tell the facility that they are to talk to no one but you about your Aunts finances and your Auntbif u have Medical POA too. As POA you are the only one who should be withdrawing from her bank accounts. The only one, other than she, on the accounts. You can be held responsible for any withdrawls made.

The stimulus check does not count when it comes to the account cap. You have a year to spend it, that will be next May, I think. It can be gifted or given to a charity.

You need to give the facility a copy of your POA. Your relative deducting money should not be allowed and you have a right to take him off the acct. You may want to see if you can open a new account with just you and Aunt on it. Make sure Medicaid knows of the change. I would redeposit the money taken out. No money should be deducted unless its for your Aunt personally. Her Personal Needs acct is counted in the amount allowed. So make sure it is spent. Again, u should be the only one, other than your Aunt, to be able to deduct from a PNA.
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If you are POA he is accountable to you. You are not accountable to him. You are responsible for the proper management of your aunt's finances to provide for her care and well being. I was my mother's financial POA and did not report to anyone. One thing that has been suggested in past cases similar to this is that you, as POA, set up a different bank account and transfer her funds so only you have access. You may want to discuss this with the bank and see what they advise.

How did he get the information about your withdrawal? He should not have that IMO.

I hope APS can help you. Let us know how it works out. You have a lot on your plate.
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Pasa18,
As financial POA, you have every right to know why cousin withdrew money!
You are legally responsible for Aunts money!!

I guess I am wondering why anyone other than you has access to Aunts account? That needs to stop!

I would suggest you talk with an elder care attorney or someone from her local Council on Aging.
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Imho, as Financial PoA, you have every right to an answer on the withdrawn funds. Players sent.
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Your aunt appointed you to oversee her finances so why does another person have access to her money and the ability to make withdrawals? When I took care of my dad’s finances acting as his POA, no one else could access his accounts or money. It was him or me. I’d have a big issue with someone else in it. Can you make changes to not allow cousin access?
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Pasa18 Nov 2020
I'd have to start a new account and submit an application to be representative for social security so her check deposits into a new account.
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Just FYI, stimulus monies were/are not considered income for Medicaid purposes. It is money the Medicaid recipient can freely spend (or save) without worrying that it puts them over their $2K asset limit (or $3K for a couple.)
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JoAnn29 Nov 2020
It does have to be spent in a year or it will be counted.
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Pasa, thanks for answering my question about the names on the account. So your cousins name is on the account and may have been done in a shady way. So next question, why is the nursing home looking at her bank statements? What business is it of theirs? Is she on medicaid & the nursing home takes care of her Medicaid app every year? Something is off about this situation.

If you want to know why your cousin withdrew money, I’ve got 2 angles I would try. So he won’t get defensive or brush you off. First one is if she is on Medicaid—you could say it’s time to submit her financials for her annual renewal and they need to know how that money was spent. If she’s not on Medicaid, do you file her taxes? If yes I would ask him if it was for a prescription or a copay under the pretense you need to know so you can write it off when you file her taxes.
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Pasa18 Nov 2020
Yes, so no one gets defensive I have gone out of my way to be civil and ask exactly what you suggested. He does not answer to me he feels. If the nursing home had a question, they could have directed it to me directly rather than communicate through my cousin. I have to follow up on monday and call the nursing home to find out if they in fact are questioning anything.

The nursing home has been shady and I believe my cousin and/or the social worker at the nursing home is acting as the personal representative of my aunt rather than honor the power of attorney. The nursing home and my cousin have excluded me from information once I produced the power of attorney. I live at a distance so I review accounts online and comply with medicaid. I planned on filing a conservatorship because it's difficult to reconcile medical procedures with billing. However I have my mother who was on hospice earlier and now on palliative care and my plate is full.
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