A little back story: My mom (now 72) was a very distant mother, would call me stupid, lazy, a brat, told me my father didn't love me and would move back to his home country if he could (he was actually extremely loving to me, we were close until he passed away when I was a teenager.) When I was sick in my late teens with a then undiagnosed autoimmune disorder she told me she didn't want to help me because she had already gone through my dad being sick. She was cold, mean, would tell me how she had a hard life and gave up her happiness to be married and have kids. She was and is a functioning alcoholic, starting to drink in the evening and staying up all hours just smoking and drinking alone after everyone else was in bed.
Very shortly after my dad died, (they were still married at the time) she met a man who moved in with her. This was fine as he was nice and she had a companion. After 25 years of living together he passed away this week. She has never had friends or any community life outside of her husband and then her boyfriend.
She now wants to move near me. My brother and sister and I suggested she look into a ccrc, but she says no way. She wants a condo near me. She said she'll give up her car and I can do her errands and help care for her, that she can't be alone and needs help. I have 2 young children and work full time, my husband works about 60+ hours a week, we are already really strapped for time.
I think if we had had a loving relationship I would be more eager to step up to the plate, but all of this is bringing up all the cruel interactions I had with her as a kid. My brother and sister have flat out said they don't want her near them because she is so toxic. Because I am the "nice" one it makes sense I should care for her.
Should I try to persuade her into a CCRC? Should I get counseling and move past our past and help? I feel very overwhelmed. In addition to drinking, she hasn't been to the Dr. is 42 years (when I was born) smokes 2 packs a day, and my sister (who is in the health field) thinks she has suffered a stroke due to slurred/ lispy speech. She also clearly has broken a wrist and it rehealed incorrectly. We have begged her to go the doctor, tried to set up appointments and bring when we visit, but she refuses. I am worried her health will go further south and she won't accept professional help, and I will need to stop working to care for her.
That's the ONLY answer you have to give to her. If she moves (on her own dime, doing the heavy lifting herself) you visit if you feel like you want to.
Adults have a responsibility to plan for their own old age. It it NOT the responsibility of their adult children.
It seems pretty obvious she isn't considering a ccrc because she has the idea that you will become her caretaker when she moves closer to you. The sooner you quash that concept the better.
Who has had what conversations with whom about what exactly? You, your brother and your sister need to huddle, fast.
Your quasi-stepfather is not cold in his grave. This *shouldn't* be an immediate problem for you - presumably there are various admin. points to be sorted out yet, yes?
It actually makes most sense of all for the healthcare-qualified person to assume leadership of family policy towards your mother's care plan. It makes no sense at all for a person with compromised health, a job she likes, a hard-pressed husband and two young children of her own to take it on.
Do not be the wide-eyed innocent dozy little baby antelope David Attenborough urges us all to root for. Run for your life!
Countrymouse, true, good point, I need to get my brother and sister talking about this in detail now. I feel like they have already checked out and put it on me. My mom is asking me to help her find condos in my area (Los Angeles which is crazy expensive no less) so she can move ASAP. When we all went to visit last week, as her boyfriend was moved into hospice, my Mom had me go with her to buy lots of new furniture so she could sell her house and have it look good. (she paid, she does have money thankfully.) She told me that her research shows that in her current neighborhood the average listing is on the market for only 41 days.She is ready to list her place now, she is ready to do this like 5 minutes ago. I am feeling rushed and need to slow this train down!
My sister, the one in health care, also is the only one without children but she is the most adamant about not helping out with this. She just keeps repeating that our Mom was terrible and she absolutely doesn't like her enough to want to do anything for her.
Beside all this headache, I truly do not understand how/ why my mom alienated us three kids, and never had any friends, She truly is alone but I also feel like it is her own doing. She was a total babe when she was young, really smart, educated upper middle class New York girl. How can she end up like this?
No! Absolutely not! This does not make sense to me at all. You think you should be punished for being nice? What?
"No, mom, that won't work for me".
Nip this in the bud NOW.
So I'll just quote back what you yourself said:
"as her boyfriend was moved into hospice, my Mom had me go with her to buy lots of new furniture so she could sell her house and have it look good."
Suppose that sentence were your first impression of a person you hadn't met before. Her boyfriend of 25 years is dying. She's picking out new furniture. What would you think she was like?
Then there's this:
"the one in health care, also is the only one without children but she is the most adamant about not helping out with this."
Do you think the experienced professional might know something you don't know about the realities of caregiving? Isn't this a bit of a heads-up for you?
I am sorry that your mother is alone. I am sorry that she needs a new life-support system and doesn't know where to find one. But how long do you think it would take her to bleed you dry emotionally? You do not have to be her next host.
She is fortunate to have money. I imagine her as a very elegant, interesting person. She would thrive in a facility with staff to wait on her and other people from her own social stratum for company. FIND HER ONE. Fast as you can. As far away from you as possible.
Alcoholism can happen to anyone.
I hope you don't let her do this to you! My mother was an alcoholic when I was younger - her dementia personality is a lot like her alcoholic one. I moved her closer to me not knowing this, and I've wound up giving up SO much to care for her. I regret it.
And I don't even have kids.
My mom is also stubborn about not seeing doctors or going to the ER, or accepting things like home support or community nurse visits. Your mom is going to NEED medical care, especially as she declines - she won't have a choice. It's going to be h**l on you if you have to fight her every step of the way!
I hate almost every second of what I'm doing now. I've lost so much. I'm now staying with her because she refuses so much outside help - no one but me will do. And I really wish I'd left things alone. If she was still where she was, she would have HAD to go in a care home by now. She cannot manage her own life or home.
I would take a strong guess - this is just my thoughts, based on experience - that your mom might want you to take care of her because you are the nice one - because (she thinks) you will not push her to give up her addictions. Her addictions are the master of her, and if you let them, her addictions will be the master of you, too. They say alcoholism is a family disease - not because everyone drinks, but because everyone is impacted by it.
And you have kids. You know what you went through as a kid. Is that something you want them to experience too?
She isn't going to be able to drink in a care home, and she isn't going to be able to smoke whenever she wants either. Sounds like the siblings aren't going to put up with it. I would bet her addictions play a huge role in her refusal to seek medical help - someone might tell her to stop. Maybe someone did tell her to stop and that's why she won't seek medical help! It makes sense that she wants to come to you, because she probably thinks you will put up with it. She knows how much power she had over you as a kid, and she may still think she has it now.
*deep breath*
I think letting her come to you, so you can be her caregiver, might just be enabling her rather than helping her. I, personally, think enabling an addict is one of the worst things you can do if you really want to help them. I've been there, with both of my parents. Neither one of them got real help for their drinking until I walked away from them. (Neither one of them ever quit smoking, either - my mom thinks she should be able to smoke in the apartment or my car any time she wants, and she does. All hours of the day and night.)
Dealing with my mom now, I can almost guarantee you are setting yourself up for the same kind of abuse and dysfunction you experienced as a kid.
I've been to Al-Anon (the 12-step group for friends and families of alcoholics) on and off over the years. I've been contemplating going back. I really recommend giving it a try. You don't have to join anything or pay any money. It's just a support group. You can find a meeting by phoning the number for Alcoholics Anonymous in your local white pages.
I know without the skills and knowledge I learned through Al-Anon and counseling, I wouldn't be able to deal with my mother as well as I am managing now. Which isn't even all that well. But at least I can stand up for myself, which I couldn't do when I was a kid.
If you're not ready to tell her no flat out, you could try telling her that you're not ready/able to make a decision about looking after her yet, and that she needs to cool her heels while you think about it. Then you've bought some time to get some counseling or some support, so that you can find whatever words you need to say.
"Mom, it seems you have some assumptions about what moving near me would entail. I am not able to XXXXX. The most i can do is have dinner with you once a month".
Get it out there and shut it down. NO ONE has the right to take away your life - do not allow them to. See a therapist if you need help navigating setting boundaries with your mom - but set them in concrete.
Do not assume that you will "have to" give in. You DO NOT! Make it entirely clear from the get go that you will not be her caretaker. Not, not, not. Do not ask for time to think about it or imply in any way that she might be able to change your mind. You are a stonewall here. Your decision is final. Perhaps once she begins to see you mean "no" she will undertake to help herself. If she has money she has options. So no need to feel you have to rescue her.
"Mom, I have a husband and children who are my priority. I cannot take care of you."
My siblings and I spoke together on the phone last night, in depth. We all agreed there are two priorities, getting my mom to slow down and not make a decision now, her BF has only just been buried! Slowing down will give all of us to make an informed decision. We all want to get her into a CCRC at this point (or so we said... read on) Also we'd like to convince her to get her legal paperwork in order, (health care proxy, that sort of stuff).
So my sister talks with Mom today and.... does not stress to her she needs to slow the process down, rather she suggests my Mom rents an apartment near me soon so she can look into more permanent housing here in LA. As you would guess my Mom was delighted with this idea and said her goal of selling her place and being in an apartment near me is 3 months.
AHHHHHH !
This makes no sense! Have my Mom move twice??? In a rush? What happened to making a group decision in a slow informed manner? I am seeing red right now.
Vent Over.
But thank you for your sound and unyielding voice, posters. My husband is with you and says a painful conversation of saying "no Mom I can't help you" is better than 10, 20 years of painful days with her in my daily life.
MountainMoose, I think I'm going to use this verbatim : "Mom, I have a husband and children who are my priority. I cannot take care of you."
Pisses me off that I got a crappy childhood. I absolutely can't let her make me be a lesser mom to my kids. Today my 8 year old and I went on an epic mountain bike ride. I would hate to give up moments like that so I can listen to a mean old lady complain while I schlep her around running errands.
Again I really appreciate your honest comments. When I talk with her tomorrow the thoughts you've all shared here will give me some strength and confidence that I have a hard time finding.
I'm sending you big internets hugs. That sounds like such a beyond challenging situation. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with an alcoholic mother. It is a *certain* kind of demon and dysfunction which makes this even more complicated.
To quote you:
"I would take a strong guess - this is just my thoughts, based on experience - that your mom might want you to take care of her because you are the nice one - because (she thinks) you will not push her to give up her addictions. Her addictions are the master of her, and if you let them, her addictions will be the master of you, too. They say alcoholism is a family disease - not because everyone drinks, but because everyone is impacted by it.
And you have kids. You know what you went through as a kid. Is that something you want them to experience too? "
Yes, this was powerful for me to read. This. I don't want to bring that type of sickness anywhere near my children. It was bad enough I had to deal with the BS*. Even if there isn't a *scene* in front of my kids, the toxic manipulations and twisted behaviors of her Alcoholism will affect me and seep down to my children. This would just be so wrong on so many levels.
Ten years ago I was feeling great, I had just met my husband, was in love, good things happening in my life, I felt so optimistic and ready to forgive her. I really thought now that I was an adult we would surely move past things. I flew back east for a visit, stayed at her house, and we had a pleasant dinner. Later I went up to the guest room and was watching tv, getting ready for bed, it was a few hours past dinner. She comes into the guest room so drunk, WASTED, crying hysterically, telling me some insane nonsense that didn't make sense, kept saying she was SO SORRY for what happened, for letting that happen to me. When I would press "what, what are you talking about?!?" She would hysterically cry again. Then again "I'm so sorry! You were just my baby. I love you. I need you. I shouldn't have let that happen to you." I was growing more agitated, saying "Mom please tell me what you are talking about? What happened"... she'd respond, "I can't tell you I can never tell you..." and on and on this went. She kept falling over, it was a MESS. Finally she lies on the floor in the fetal position, and just starts moaning. She's in a tiny nighty and it keeps falling off her shoulders and baring her chest, I was so grossed out. I'm a petite lady, but she's 85 pounds soaking wet, so finally I pick her up and bring her to her bed and totally yell at her. (Very atypical for me to yell at anyone. I was just pushed to my maximum.) Tell her to be quiet and to leave me alone. Her BF (the one who just passed away) was "sleeping" in the bed the whole time acting like he didn't hear any of this.
I swore that day I would keep my distance and never attempt to forgive her again, yet here I am.
I have reread your response many times and it gives me hope that I can speak out finally after 42 years of this. I also think whatever happens I will look into Al-Anon.
thank you ((( )))
Your mother is mentally ill. Caring for a " normal" aging parent who loved and cared for you when you were young is hard, heartbreaking work. Caring for a mentally ill, resistant and alcoholic parent who mistreated you as a child is a job for professionals. Not.your.job.
Your sister is dumping your mother on YOU.
Stay strong, say no as much as you can. They are all trying to manipulate you into taking care of your mother.
My mother gave me her car, and in exchange I was supposed to taxi her around at her request. I told her I wanted her to sell her car, and use that money for transportation services. I was ignored. So I put firm boundaries on when/where I take my mother. She wasn't happy at first, but had to accept it. And I can only do this because I work for my husband and have very flexible hours.
Any errand with her takes forever, because she is so pokey slow and insists on being the one to go somewhere. I can't even pick up milk for her, because I might not pick a carton that's dated well enough for her! And the complaining! Complaining about the cold, the wet, her ailments. I. DO. NOT. CARE.
And I just provide transportation. Think of what else YOU will be expected to do for your mother. DO. NOT. DO. IT.
Be very clear to your mother and your sibs that you will NOT take on anything. It is her choice where she moves, and your choice how involved (or not) you are.
Your sister is a snake. I think a very assertive phone call to her and your bro regarding your position would not hurt, or put it in writing in an email to all. That way no one can use any emotional blackmail on you during a conversation. Make it very clear what the original convo was about, namely a CCRC, and that that is the only option acceptable to you. Your sis had sabotaged you. I would be wary of her too from now on.
Your mother is a very ill person and toxic to you and your family. You need to protect yourself, and them from her. There are others who can care for her. You decide how much, if any, contact you want with her. Once a month for lunch in public? Once every few months for lunch in public? Whatever works for you.
((((((hugs))))) Come back for more support any time and wash your hands of any future "furniture buying" or such. The answer is "No".
Don't make any accusations, let us charitably assume that Sister misunderstood. The object of the email is to make sure she can't "misunderstand" a second time.
A lot of the time, I think forgiveness is overrated. There is a lot of pressure on victims to forgive their abusers for some pretty unforgivable things.
On the other hand, forgiveness can be for yourself, if you stop thinking of it as a form of resolution (or attempted resolution) with the other person. Knowing you've forgiven the person (you don't have to tell them) helps YOU move on, without carrying the weight of what they have done to you. It can be a kind of release from the past.
Honestly, if it were me? I'd probably just tell her the truth. "Mom, I can't be around you when you're drinking, and I refuse to have an active alcoholic around my family, so I will not provide care for you."
I'd say the same thing to my brother, or anyone else in my family. "I cannot be around mom when she's drinking, and I refuse to have an active alcoholic around my family, so I will not be providing care for her."
There's so much lying and secrecy in an alcoholic family. So much manipulation and guilt-tripping and bargaining. I spent years scraping off that mindset. I guess now I would rather just speak my truth.
It's not about trying to hurt the other person. It's about reclaiming my personal power. The truth is the truth, and once I speak it out loud, even if I'm shaking....it becomes stronger than any nasty, false, or manipulative thing anyone throws my way. Truth is the unbreakable foundation beneath my feet.
So I'd probably say that and just hang up, lol. Let the chips fall where they may. "Detach from the outcome and do it anyway," is one of the first things I learned in Al-Anon.
(((((hugs to you)))))
Listen to others who have made the mistake of taking on caring for someone. You may think a few errands will be no big deal but it will evolve. Like someone said above, a simple trip to get milk will turn into a major undertaking. Last month I offered to take my father to the bank. Figured it would be a quick trip. It took 45 MINUTES just to get him out the door! There are no quick trips when it comes to helping an elderly person. Plan on wasting half a day just for milk and bread. With working full time and raising two kids, do you really have that kind of free time? And as time goes on the demands (they never ask nicely) will get more and more. Once you make yourself available they will try and suck you in to taking care of every aspect of their lives, including the things they can easily do for themselves.
Good luck, and good for you in being able to establish a health life and family after an abusive childhood - that is quite an accomplishment!!
"Mom, I have a husband and children who are my priority. I cannot take care of you."
"Mom, I can't be around you when you're drinking, and I refuse to have an active alcoholic around my family, so I will not provide care for you."
"Mom, you made my childhood absolutely miserable. My resentment toward you would make me an unsuitable caregiver, and I will not do that."
Or rotate the answers. You'll need to answer more than once. Modify the answers for your sibs:
"Sis, I have a husband and children who are my priority. I cannot take care of mother."
"I can't be around mother when she's drinking, and I refuse to have an active alcoholic around my family, so I will not provide care for her. I am sure you can understand where I am coming from, Brother."
"Mom made my childhood absolutely miserable. My resentment toward her would make me an unsuitable caregiver, and I will not do that. I think the same thing is probably true of you, Bro and Sis. We need to all refuse to get involved in her life."
Stay strong. If you can't manage that for yourself, think of your marriage and your children.
Your mother is manipulating you, your sister understands this fully and was passing the buck so mom would not move near her, and brother apparently is out of the line of fire. Stand firm! I went NO Contact with mthr for 8 years and listened to Dr. Laura for support. Eventually, Adult Protective Services found me a couple of states away and basically asked us to get her off the street. We plopped her in a Memory Care where she can hurt no one.
Many times it takes hitting rock bottom to see any turnaround in addiction. It helps people reach that point when they are completely rejected and shunned by their families. Don't feel guilty if you go NC, as you will actually no longer be enabling her behavior but will be taking a strong stand against it.
You do not owe your mother anything. You have a husband, who is giving you good advice, and young children. They are your priority. Your mother is unlikely to give up her drinking and smoking and you do not want to expose your children to the behavior of an alcoholic or the second hand smoke. Your mother has made her choices in life and you have the right to make choices in you life.
Have you noticed that no one has suggested that you go along with helping your mom? Feel free to quote any or all of us to your siblings.
You can't control what your mom or your siblings do, but you can TOTALLY control what you do. You can make sure your mom knows that you won't be there to take care of her, no matter how close she moves to you, that your plate is already full. And then do it. Don't let her creep into your life by inches, either.
It's sad, but people reap what they sow. You have made a good suggestion to her to get into a CCRC, but she would much prefer someone she can order around, like you. Protect the family you have, your husband and child, and put them first.