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1992 : Mother was 52 y/o and began hoarding in her apt. I was married and did not live with her but was concerned about the clutter building up. Told to mind my business.


1998 : Clutter is at uncomfortable level. Personality is argumentive, combative, refuses help and once became physically aggressive. I went no contact for one year after being attacked.


2004 : Full scale Hoarding. Refuses help and denies there is a problem. Has diabetes, high blood pressure and atherosclerosis. Accusing people of stealing. Not paying bills properly. Poor eating habits.


2008 : Hoarding has reached a dangerous level. Pathways developing. She did allow me to clear the pathways a little while angrily protesting at the same time. Health condition still poor. Still refusing help.


2009-2016 : Hoarding continues. Surgery to put stent in leg. Proactively caregiving in as much as she will allow (Doctor Visits, Grocery Shopping, Outings, Bill Pays, Tax Prep and Home Cooked Meals). Accused me of stealing. Suspicious of everyone. Dr gave referral for neurologist and she refused, saying she’s not crazy. Stress has now made me sick.


2017 : The very thing I thought could and would happen did. She developed Pneumonia and Sepsis and almost died. I had to get her out of the apt which was almost impossible because of the Hoarded condition. Ambulance took her to hospital and she was saved from death. She stayed in SNF for 30 days and discharged to me. She was admitted to the hospital 2 more times for Sepsis and high Blood Sugar. She is living in my home with my husband and college age children.


2017-2018 : Mother is 78 y/o now. Currently still living in my home and it is a nightmare. Demanding, unappreciative, insulting, rude. Given three meals per day and snacks in between yet tells people we starve her. Ordering from catalogs and the clutter is creeping up. We hide any incoming catalogs now. Demands to go home but can’t because it’s not safe. Eats everything she can to elevate her sugar level so we hide snacks in bedroom. Goes to store and buys junk food then looks surprised and questions why I am giving her insulin. Is incontinent (bladder) for now, no major problem dealing with that right now. I feel it’s time for a long term care facility. My health is deteriorating. My family nucleus is deteriorating. She’s refusing to go into professional care. The hoarded apt still has to be cleaned out and I am too weak to do it now. I rented a storage unit to store some valuable things while going through the cleaning process. I have a POA for health only, she won’t do a POA for finance and I am currently applying for Medicaid through their trust program because her income is a notch over the acceptable amount. Just overwhelmed by all of this. Maybe someone can make suggestions on best way to handle this. Thanks

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Call APS...they did me a favor as I was completely blindsided by the sudden death
of Dads caretaker son,my brother,who never intended to go to any NH...but after
Brothers Funeral and Dad too much to care for incontinent,falling etc. I said whatever it costs as Dad only had 12,000 in his checking act....and he was admitted to a home to go on pending Medicaid as soon as I did a Funeral
Trust with his 10,000....it took two mos. all done by accident as I knew nothing
other than you must only have 2000 in your account...get the hoarding property
sold,declared, unoccupiable...then perhaps with Meds she will comply and never know why....how old is she Dad was 97...and very compliant..i visited everyday..

APS saved me from the initial call I made to a NH when I started panicing..
as the Assisted living just grabbed my Dads clothes from the ER due to my calling them from the phone book....I knew nothing about a senior having to be assessed by the hospital or Doc and I assume a vigilant nurse in ER was watching this lady attempting to take Dad after I wrote a check for 850.00
in the rooms in Er as she looked at Dads urine specimen, are you ready!!!!!
the check was towards 4800.00 per mo at an assisted living which Dad was way way beyond...long story short dad was kept in Hospital for 2 weeks
luckily with influenza and UTI...…..t.hen properly readied for long term care and the social workers found a NH for him...by the way priced at 7000.00 per mo
unbeknownst to me but going in with Medicaid.Pending,nosupplemantal ins. so after 20days full payrate.....161.00.. with the adult protective services
representative sitting with me as the first lady from the assisted living had taken my 850.00 from me as a downpayment illegally, she still managed to get her
recruiting of Dad up to the social services of the hospital never giving up recruiting my dad for her residence......IMAGINE THAT... I got half my money back after four weeks and I called the OMBUDSMAN...…...so APS is not always
bad they step in so you do not have to be the only decider...……..who is getting your Mothers social security now?is the Hoarding palace paid for?Is it worth anything?...or will it be condemned...…………………..
until he died 43/4 mos. later....
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Clarity Dec 2018
Hello and thank you for responding to the OP. Yes I contacted APS in NY and they were not helpful. Very bureaucratic and hands off. There is no SSI and her residence is a rental. My situation is a swashbuckling nightmare but I’m working around and through it as best as I can. I am thankful for nice people like you who have taken your valuable time to answer my post. I’m sorry about your Dad’s passing and it’s good that you had finally received the right type of help to get him through his final years safely and comfortably. Wishing you and your family a peaceful 2019 and beyond. God Bless
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Bless your heart for all your kindness for your mother. I hope Medicaid can help soon. I had to go no contact after taking all the disrespectful abuse I could endure. Yes, it can literally take your own health and you have to take care of yourself.
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Clarity Nov 2018
Thank you for responding to the OP...I really appreciate your kind words...yes sometimes no contact is the only option when you’ve reached the point of having to save yourself because of their abusive behavior. My prayers are with you and your family..Hang in there, it’s tough though.
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I hate to say this, but sometimes you just have to let go. Let go of the control! Let go of wanting to help! Let go of trying to save someone who doesn't want to be saved! The bible tells us, " God helps those who help themselves".
My mother is the same as your minus the diabetic. However, there are so many things she is not suppose to eat but she does and I let her. She is the one who has to pay the price and she does! I try telling her what should not eat but it just started a fight, therefore, I have learned to pick my battles. Futhermore, I tried to help with her finances but she wasn't haven't it. Because she knew more than me, she was better than me; she had all the power when I moved in and believe me she let me know it to.
I just let go...now she has no money except her SS. So, now she can not afford to pay all the house bills, so I pay them. She does help, but I pay most of them and all of the up keep! Simply by just letting go! There is a book you might want to read called "Letting go" by David Hawkins, MD, Ph.D. It has nothing to do with dealing with dementia or hoarding. But it has helped me.
My mother is also hoarder. I just started throwing things out things that she would not miss, than I started to get her involved asking her questions like: what are you going to use this for? (This being whatever it was at the time) When are you going to use this? You get the idea. It worked for awhile but than I hit a wall & my mother started to fighting about it, so I let go. Months later she started to throw things away or donate things.
I know this doesn't sound like a good idea but it worked for me. You have to use some comman sense ( not let things go to far one way or the other)
However, you have gotten some good advice here. This is just another way to think about it.

There seems to be a common thread here about having a narc, hoarding & abusive mother,
so your not alone.

I pray that God helpes you find your way out of this mess and brings peace to you in Jesus' name. Amen
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello and thank you for responding to the OP. Yes I see there are many dealing with the same thing or some variation of it. For a while I felt like the only person on earth with a situation such as this. Nobody talks about it out loud. I am glad for this forum, it’s helpful to share without dealing with stigmatisms and judgements. Hang in there yourself and hoping for the best for you and your family. God Bless
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Hello again ...I would just like to thank everyone that responded to my OP. I appreciate you taking time from your busy day to offer another prospective and/or possible solution to the problem. Sometimes we can’t see the forest for the trees when we’re so close physically and emotionally to a circumstance. Sometimes we just need verification that our thinking is in the right place. So again ...may God bless all of you and anyone going through trials and tribulations ....and Thank You So Much...it meant a lot and was helpful.
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Riverdale Oct 2018
It is very polite of you to respond to those trying to help you. I hope you find some solutions to your issue.
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Hey There. I know I didn’t write this question but I could have. You, dear One, have a row to hoe. 😔. I would suggest you look up Dr. Ross Rosenberg on YouTube videos. He addresses the narcissistic personality disorder in depth. What he shares with his clients and how he trains his counselors is empowering for adult children of narcissists. I understand you are trying to do the right thing, but abusing yourself doesn’t sound like the right thing. Strength to you! VK
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello and thank you for your response to the OP. I’ll be sure to check his videos out. There is also a very good avatar on YouTube called BeGood4000 who gives good insight to the narcissistic personality. I will be changing the situation but it is a process that takes time to do it right. My prayers are with you and your family as well, it’s not easy these life and death matters. God Bless
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Hi, this isn't an answer. I'm sorry. I have the same situation o oh mom has dementia also. Can you tell me what the limit financially is allow for medicaid. She gets $1600.00 a month. Is that to much? I want to so
!y but fear she'll be denied. I live the same miserable life minus the hoarding. I hope you find answers. I'll be following. Good luck.
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VKroud Oct 2018
In Illinois, you can can apply for Medicaid when your personal assets equal $2000 or less. As a rule the income received goes toward care. I have only worked with clients in nursing homes where their entire income ( up to $5000) went to the facility.
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Please, please if she is driving, talk to her doctor - he or she should be reporting her medical problems with diabetes to Dept. of Motor Vehicles and yanking her license. Please save a life!
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AT1234 Oct 2018
1) Dr do not send info to DPS
2) DPS will not take license at least in TX

....been there done that, and we wonder why these seniors are “allowed” to drive? Well, it’s bc legally kids can not legally take their keys.
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I believe OP has left the building...
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For starters, if she goes into hospital or rehab, refuse to take her back into your home.  Her care is simply beyond you - the simple truth.  And this is very unfair to your other family members - sounds like they are being made to live in a mental hospital.  Your mom needs to be placed - make that clear to discharge planner that she is mentally ill and you cannot care for her.   What is her doctor's take on her competency?  Could she be declared incompetent? Would you be willing to be guardian or rather leave that to the state? If you have the money/authority, get a service to clean out her apartment.  If not, report to health department - this sounds like a danger to others.Can you work with hospital/rehab social worker on the Medicaid application? They can sometimes be very helpful in making applications.
Final course of action is to see an attorney for legal ramifications and evict her.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello and thank you for your response to the OP. Going the route of getting her approved for Medicaid first then will have her placed in long term care facility. There are still remnants of who she once was still there, but she’s fading fast. I am very sad about all of this. I appreciate your insight. Wishing you and yours the best as well. God Bless
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I admire your efforts and it's a great thing you are doing but i think now you should handle her to a elder care center for they can take care of her better than you are doing and you can also concentrate on your career.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello. Thank you for your response to the OP. Yes your right. That’s exactly what I plan to do. Just trying to get finances and legalities in order. I have given all I can and now it’s time to do things differently. Again thank you for taking the time to reply and God Bless
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So much of what you share reminds me of my situation, a hoarding,narsasitic,paranoid,father with dementia who now must live with me after his stroke. My Father is also a hair over the income level. I think all states have have a program where the state a lots money for caretaking. In CA it is IHSS.I had to apply for medi-cal too and he pays me a share of cost. I toss the catalogs when they come in too. My Father is very narcisistic & controlling. If he could not control those around him, he would try to destroy them. I quit my job and took him in after he had a stroke because he was too much for anywhere he was put. He also would not sign a POA. If it was not for his stroke and his immobility I do not think I could keep him here. I am very impressed with the enormity of what you are tackling. It is very stressfull to the family. And while it feels like it tares at us, I feel it strengthens us too. When it turned out my father's cancer matastisized, it ended up giving us maximum 24 hr available support thru hospice. My Father being a vet we were advised to apply for a volunteer to come so many hrs a week! If you don't get state paid caretaking, you may be eligable for other volunteer caretaking programs. In our state it is just one or the other, so that it is not double dipping. Well my father has slowed down a lot and between his lack of strength and the education hospice does on how to medicate him for comfort and to ease agitation, things have become quite peaceful. He has been here over a yr and a half. He has alianated all the other family by how he has treated them or how they have observed him treating me, mistrusting and accussing me when I have sacraficed so much to care for him. What I really want to say is although your mothers judgement may be impaired some what, she is still a walking, talking adult. Consider letting her steer her own ship, even if doing so may be like letting her shoot herself in the foot. In other words if she wants to buy high carbs & sweets and put herself in a diabetic coma that is the way she wants to go. I would try and keep the hording to a minimum for your own sanity and safety, but she almost died once and is living on borrowed time. Let her live it the way she chooses. Maybe she will go out happy & quick steering her own ship on a sugar high :)! I know it does not sound very medically sound and my father was pre diabetic, but I was always adviced to let him eat whatever he wanted this late in the game.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello...Thank you for responding to the OP. You have your hands and heart full as well. My prayers are with you and your dad & family. He’s a veteran from the old school so I know he’s a tough man (smile). The narcissism seems to really get out of control as they age.... I understand what you mean when you say to let her have her way with sweets & etc....it’s just that for years she did it her way and since Dec 2017 until now she almost died 4 x’s. Each time I intercepted. When it happens it will be because it could not be stopped. I’m planning on getting her into a long term care facility at the first opportunity I get after she gets Medicaid. Sometimes when she won’t listen I tell her “well I guess you will do A, B or C until God says it’s enough”. She listens when I put it like that (smile). In the meantime take care of yourself and God Bless
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You more than have your hands full. My first main thought is to take away the ability for her to buy anything. I have had to reduce ways my mother could purchase due to a host of financial mistakes and purchases. We have had many frank discussions. She mostly has it under control but I still frequently tell her she cannot have a blank check and when she requests one the amount has to be agreed to. She could easily wipe out the money in her checking account. If you can remove what may be of some value from her place that would be great and then I would get a dumpster as I imagine the rest is mostly worthless and your time and stress level will be affected. It took my husband and I 6 months to empty a one bedroom apartment. Some of the worse 6 months of my life. I truly hope you can take away the ability for her to continue to make purchases as difficult as that will be.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello...Thank you for responding to the OP. I avoid stores, throw away catalogues, block the shopping channel on cable, etc etc. This in itself is stressful. Then add the dash of dementia...Something went wrong for my mom and I’ve tried for many years to keep her from slipping completely away. Now I am focused on keeping her safe and comfortable but I do realize it’s time for professionals to handle her primary care. My prayers to you and yours....God Bless
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I can RELATE! My mom, who just passed in August, was a narcissist, hoarder, who physically, emotionally and mentally abused me from day one, had dementia but was also an ALCOHOLIC!

To add to that, my sister is also a narcissist. My mom and sister hated each other. Have you ever been around two of them at the same time? A TRULY mind blowing experience that kept me on pins and needles for 50 years. The depths they would go to “get back” at each was deeper than hell.

Both of them tried to run my life, told me what to do and bullied me. They both intimidated me until I decided enough was enough.

I loved my mom because she was my mom. But I didn’t like her very much. Luckily for me, she moved out of state when I was 13 and I only had to visit her twice a year. But I did have to live with my sister, ugh.

My story is like most of the others so I won’t go into detail, but this is what I did/had to do when she couldn’t take care of herself anymore;

She lived in a different state, so it was a little easier for me. We hired a in home non medical care business. There were only 3 employees, so it was quaint and mom could remember them most of the time.

I was driving to her house weekly (3 1/2 hrs one way) to check on her and go to her Dr. appointments. I’d take her out to eat, etc. I had to stay in a hotel because of her hoarding, which got very expensive.

My sister, who resides in yet another state would go to moms twice a year. During her visit in 2017, she attended a Dr’s appointment with mom. ONE appt. I had been to at least 20. She decided (although we were 50/50 in the POA) that she didn’t like mom’s Dr, fired him and found someone else. Mind you, her MD is rated as the best geriatric Doctor in her state!

Sure, you can argue with a narcissist, but it’s a TOTAL waste of time. You can NEVER win, you are ALWAYS WRONG.

I am Bi Polar (just a little dysfunction in my family). I have been through YEARS of therapy and have finally found the right MD and the right meds. I am trying to get my life BEFORE Bi Polar back.

I realized the toll this was taking (because of the years of therapy). I was decomping quickly both mentally and physically. Something I can’t afford to do to my health.

I had already watched my dad die a long and grueling death. I suffered terribly and had a total meltdown. I couldn’t watch again. I had empathy for my mom, but we were never close and she had people with her 24/7. She was safe. (Or at least we thought so... I have another question under Home Care and Elder Abuse. It’s definitely something you should read if you are contemplating hiring help).
Mom sort of apologized, something I never thought I would hear. Something my sister never heard. I forgave her in my head.

Now that she is gone, I have forgiven her in my heart too. That is a MUST for all of us.Guilt? No. I went to moms house for Christmas last year and didn’t go back until July of this year, when we moved her into AL. She died 9 days later after being taken to the ER.

My sister was with her in the hospital. I chose not to go. Mom had suffered a major stroke and would never regain her consciousness.

My sister put the phone by moms ear and I told her I loved her, I’d forgiven her and attributed her for her finer qualities. I told her I would TRY to get along with my sister for she is all the family I have left. I said I knew she was coming back as a butterfly and every time I saw one, I would talk to it as if I was talking to her. I also included some of the things I didn’t like. I apologized to her.

My sister said her color came back, her heavy breathing slowed and her gurgling stopped while on the phone. She passed 6 hours later. After 50 years, I am FINALLY at peace!

PLEASE take care of YOU! Self preservation is just that, SELF!

*There are many self help books available if you cannot afford therapy to help get passed the past. BEST of luck to you.
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Riverdale Oct 2018
Thar certainly was a terrific burden. I admire the mental place you seem to be in now and am glad all that torment is over for you. I have different issues with my mother. I am an only child and there have been years of stress. On top of that my husband can add to it. He resorts to anger. I try my best to see good in life but also deal with depression and anxiety. I am sorry for all you went through.
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One thing that is of upmost importance~Think FIRE.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello. Thanks for your response to the OP. Yes...fire is a concern in general because of the dementia. She’s not living in the hoarded environment anymore. God Bless
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I am not sure how somebody can put up with so much. We need to think of ourselves not just your mother. My MIL is also narcissistic and has dementia. I am glad we never let her move into our house she wanted to. She tries to guilt us into it by saying she is lonely. She does living in AL. She believes we should serve her and never go anywhere without her. We did use to go on vacation with her and her husband (now dead) but they did their own things. We did take her on a trip with just her and it was horrible but of course she does not see that. They only see how things effect them. She outright told us we did not have the right to go on vacation without her. I immediately booked a trip we were planning. She does not know yet. She can't or won't do much. I have tried taking her shopping or to some event but she is always sick. Except for dementia she does not have many health issues. Make sure you be strong we are starting to learn to put our foot down and not give in and you can too. It is too much of a tole on your health to care for somebody without any training especially a parent. I have learned to visit less but take her to doctors and go over to clean up once in a while.
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KayBorden Oct 2018
Trying to be nice to narcissist only opens you up to more abuse. Narcs understand consequences. You have to put as much distance as possible between you and her, and don't look back.
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@ Texasgal - think we could put your 92 y.o. with my 93 y.o. mom, since we both found out too late in life what narcissistic means!!!! And that they will NEVER change for the better, only worse and worse ....

And oh yes, someone said in this thread about how their narcissistic person "sucked the life" out of them..... that is such an accurate description. Anytime I do anything for myself, my mother who lives with me, acts as if she permitted it, albeit with that curl of her lip and negativity that flows out of her, and on and on, so that after the thing I did for myself, it took a lot of the fun and joy out of it.... and this is me in my 60's ..... no wonder I tried running away when I was 14.... I so clearly remember ...

Been living in my home for a little over a year because she has no family/friend support around her in her home 2-3 hours away... I am "the only one", and know that for HER it is best to have someone looking after her, but for ME, there are not enough anti-anxiety medicines in the world or prilosecs for GI issues caused by anxiety.......and within the first 6-8 months of living here wanted to go shoe-shopping and kept choosing high-heels and made me the "bad guy" telling her no, that if she falls and breaks a hip she'll be in the hospital and nursing home, etc etc.

Same woman who joked about how when she was pregnant with me 60+ years ago she fell down the stairs. .... and another time how she accidentally shocked herself in a socket... tell me she didn't want to end everything

Same woman who when she was first here made it clear she wasn't going to stay here if daughter's boyfriend was in house (nicest guy you would want to meet), and forget about trying to date and bring someone home (me)....

I finally, finally figured out why I was the "golden child", the "perfect child" which everyone in the family was sick of hearing about.... because " I " wasn't the perfect one.... the "perfect one" was my mother - I am merely that "extension of her" - it all makes sense now .... she never encouraged me with any of my jobs... I do contracting .... I gave up a chance a year ago to take a job that paid twice as much and within 2-3 years, I'd be able to retire with house paid off, and a bit of savings, and ironically have had time for her to do things together ..... she's never encouraged me or been happy for me because she does not know how and has no empathy and cares about no one but herself.

I think next time she talks about leaving to go back to her home, I'll take her. And I will write a list of contacts she can have when she runs into trouble.... the number for the taxi, the number for the grocery store for delivery, the number of some local home care agencies, because I will surely make sure the car is removed... there is nooo way she can be driving. I was partially worried about her going to her home and my telling her firmly that when she is ill, she will have to find her way to the doctor and do all of these other things because she said she is fine on her own, and already know that she would let others think that "poor her, her daughter won't help" ..... and if she does go to her house, then so be it.... I hope to have another 30 years left in my life, BUT, maybe I won't, maybe it will be a year, maybe a week, none of us knows, but I want my children to know that I am there for them, too, not 100% for my mother.... and I want them to know it's ok to enjoy life and live it to the fullest - I lost my husband/their father when I was 44 and they were teenagers... mom has just about "sucked me dry" and I want to have fun and happiness and good health with the rest of however long I live and participate in my kids' lives whenever we can get together.

Oh and now I guess it is time for earphones and netflix yet again :) Good nite all... thanks for letting me vent... I raise my glass of wine to all who are in this boat!

p.s. You know, it isn't my mother I hate.... it's my taking so so long to figu
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello. Thanks for responding to the OP. Dealing with a narcissist parent is tough. The behavior is insidious because it feeds off of negative emotion and energy that they deliberately create. In order for you to survive and live a happy and full life you must emotionally detach from the negative aspects of your mom’s personality. Try to live your best life in spite of your situation and I will pray for you and your family. God Bless
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My MIL also has a Personality Disorder and is a hoarder and has dementia. She went to the hospital when she broke her hip, and we would not allow her to go home. She’s been living in a nursing home for a few years, and we finally have some sanity back.

As soon as your mother has the slightest bit of distress or her blood pressure goes up or blood sugar is out of whack, call 911 and have them transport her to the ER. When she gets there after they do their initial evaluation, step out of the room and let them know that you WILL NOT be taking her home because you are no longer able to care for her at home, and that they need to find placement for her in a Nursing Facility IMMEDIATELY. Refuse to take her home. Walk out if you have to.

This is a little secret to fast-tracking placement. Your mother will be mad at you, but she will adjust. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else.
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Heather10 Oct 2018
Excellent advice, when dealing with NPD.

Yes, the secret is that the family has to abandon them to get care.

As long as the hospital thinks there is a family member available to care for them, they will dump them onto that relative.
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Din;t do Yourself in trying to please someone who "isn't even in there." Do you want to be the next one who's ill? Get her into a care center ASAP. She needs more care than you can give her. It's Not worth the money you expect to "earn" from her, or from inheritance! Get over it. YOU can't fix her, and what life you have left is being destroyed. Give her care to SEVERAL PEOPLE in a care center, rather than YOU doing it all. It's NOT worth it. She is NOT the same loving mother you used to know. Get her out of your home!
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello...Just wanted to say thank you for responding to the OP and to answer your question. I don’t want to be any sicker than I already am, believe me on that. There is no inheritance except the hoard my mother has accumulated so there is nothing to “get over”. I appreciate your straight forward approach though. God Bless
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My doctor, whom I have to see often now that my health has been damaged by my caregiving challenges, keeps driving home the point that I can only do as much as I'm able to do, and as much as my dad will allow. It should always be a two-part formula. I can exhaust myself trying to get compliance out of someone who has physical, cognitive, mental health, and personality issues to create better circumstances for him but often not succeed in the long term. Or I can make a realistic assessment, as you are doing, and figure out where the legitimate boundaries need to be. I think you're on notice to detach as much as you can, and to do the work you need to feel okay about it.

Your mom is on the road to the hospital again with her poor health habits. If you can't get her out before that happens, then heed what others have said and don't allow her to be discharged to you. Hospitals employ social workers specifically to deal with these situations when someone is no longer suitable for their previous living situation. You will probably get push back because they have to work harder to solve the problem than just trying to convince you it will be different this time. The most important thing you can do is stand your ground on all fronts, which, by the way, will involve a lot of crying in the bathroom for a while.

Best to you.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello. Thanks for responding to the OP. I appreciate your advice. You have a full plate yourself. I find not allowing your emotions to be involved when caregiving for a difficult person is one way to protect your well being. Unless it’s a dire situation sometimes when they won’t cooperate you have to step back and do something else, then come back to what you need them to do later. Try to take it easy and God Bless
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When I first read the header, I thought you were talking about my mom. Mine is 84 and while she doesn't live with me, I can tell you this behavior does not get any better. Her narcissism hit an all time low on Saturday when she called my son (on his wedding day!) and told him she wasn't going to his wedding...all to draw attention to herself.
I am so done with her. I'll be there in case of emergency. Other than that, she is on her own. She has been mean and manipulative my entire life. At 61, I do not have the energy to deal with her negativity. It started to affect me physically and I put the brakes on it. I am now in counseling paying out of pocket.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello...just wanted to say thank you for responding to the OP. Yeahhh they do things like that when they are not the center of a happy occasion. I married in 1987 and my maternal grandmother did the same exact thing. I noticed it but refused to allow myself to care. I went low contact and remained that way until she passed in 2007. Hang in there and God Bless
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This sounds like a mental problem, schizophrenia, she needs to be medicated and
possibly then she will stop bullying everyone around her...they feel good when the putdowns start..u are left bereft with low esteem and guilt at not wanting to hurt
an Elder………...anyway looks like NH will not take a violent abusive person anyway..
she may need a mental institution...…………….this will drain you...perhaps u let her get away with this your entire life....its called acting out...
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Clarity Oct 2018
Thank you and God Bless
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Yes, your mother needs to be OUT of your home. Your health, your family relationships MUST be your priority. IsntEasy's advice and recommendations are accurate. If and when your mother winds up in the hospital do NOT allow them to discharge her to your home. You do not need to say anything more than it is not an acceptable discharge plan. You do not have to give your mother an explanation other than it is no longe acceptable for her to be in your home... period, end of statement.
Keep in mind what your and your family's needs and feelings are and how to best care for yourself and them. Be clear that your needs and feelings matter and must be respected... In spite of whatever guilt you may initially feel, it will be better than suffering as you have been, and the guilt will pass as your health and control over your home return... Please take care of you.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello. Thank you for your insight. I agree. I feel exhausted but I know things have to be properly put in place for her care. Working on keeping myself together as well. It’s tough and hopefully things work out for the best. Hope all will be well for you and your family also. God Bless
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This may sound harsh, but evict her.
Shop (on your own) for both an assisted living apartment and a regular apartment. Inform your mother that she can no longer live with your family. If you don't want to hear an argument, invent a rock solid reason why she can't...you're going back to work full time, you're having the house remodeled...whatever.
Give her a choice, the AL or an apartment on her own (schedule some home care to check in on her and get her a pendant). Once the hard part is done and she's moved out (keep that goal in your mind at all times), you'll still be dealing with the disaster (if she picks the regular apartment) or her rocky adjustment (if she chooses AL - hoarders and narcissist always have rocky adjustments). But, you'll be able to regain your health and sanity and deal with it at arm's length, mostly over the phone.
Once she's out of your house, never let her back in (that was the misstep that launched this journey). You DO NOT have to let the hospital discharge to you. That is what is easiest for them, but you simply refuse and say that there is no one to care for her at my home nor at hers. They cannot discharge unless she can be properly cared for.
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LorenMGG Oct 2018
Spot on answer...
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I recently posted about my Hoarding Mom - I completely hear you.

Unfortunately, what I've come to understand is that until/unless the Hoarder is mentally or physically "incompetent", then there is literally nothing you can do.

Literally. Nothing.

You can't fix this. You can only protect yourself.

One of the things that has helped me is to look at the Hoarding as an addiction. You can't help an addict unless they want help, and even then sometimes you can't.

I chose to let go of trying to fix or change my Hoarding Mom and to set boundaries that protect me, my sanity and my family. My Hoarding Mom is clear with me that because I think it's unacceptable to live in a home with no working heat, that I am a liar, that I'm trying to steal from her, that I'm not to be trusted, and that it's her life and her choices, and that I can't control her or tell her what to do, like I do everyone else. (Yes, because that makes sense).

Sure, her choices, but it's also my reality.

I have made a choice to limited my contact with Mom. I think long and hard about what contact (kids/visits/phone) I'm OK with and what I'm not. And when. Because she is right - she has "capacity", so she CAN make her own choices. All I can control is how I react/don't react to her mental illness.

Society/your family/neighbors will tell you it's your problem to solve, just go in there and clean it up! I'm telling you that's not true. You didn't create this problem, you can't fix it, you're not responsible for it.

I have and continue (on and off) to see a therapist who helps me work through this. Because I choose not to bring my years of hurt, anger, and resentment into my home and into my relationship with my husband and my kids. I choose to see this as an issue is between my mother and me. And as heartbreaking as it is to know that she cares more about piles of trash than she does about me, I've also (after years of therapy - give yourself time to deal, cope, grieve) come to the decision that even though I can't change her, I can change: 1.) how I choose to look at this; and 2.) where my boundaries are.

I hope this is helpful to you. There are support groups out there filled with people who are also dealing with this. I joined Children of Hoarders and have found comfort and release in knowing I'm not alone.

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/



You're a good person dealing with someone else's rotten mental illness. I'm sorry you're going through this.
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orlando101 Oct 2018
Good for you. My belief is that dealing with this in the way that you are now and seeking professional help, you are stopping this dysfunction in it's tracks once and for all and when your mother is no longer around you will have the peace that you "broke" the dysfunctional cycle. I did this before my mom passed away (not a hoarder at all, but lots of family dysfunction).

My mil is a hoarder - after having no choice but to move into a retirement home after her husband died, she now can only hoard money - lots of it. For the first time I've seen up close how deep narcissism goes hand in hand with this and it breaks my heart for my husband because it is clear that for both he and his sister what she hoards and what is "hers" is bottom line more important to her than them.

It is an illness and I believe a way to keep the ones who should be closest to you at an emotional distance. I think these are people who did not ever grow emotionally either due to neglect, abuse or a traumatic event.

Best thing to do is what you are doing and what we have to do, and the original poster needs to find a way to do - stay away as much as possible. I'm going to look into that organization. My husband broke away years ago but it definitely affected his self-worth and now having this close by again has brought up some old stuff- but he sees it as an illness and has made very good boundaries.
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First and foremost, you are not alone. This site is amazing and the advise on here changed my life. I too have the same situation and believe me when I tell you it is a no win. My mom moved from florida-nasty nasty vile woman- being an only child, there IS no one else. Trapped, grown family, great husband....and now this. Nasty, paranoid, lying, nocturnal, hoarding, obese, incontinent, diabetic, high blood pressure -medication game playing woman. ALL HER LIFE. One thing I did do was put her in her own apartment, as she is FAR healthier than I am. I hired a "companion" and so far so good- she LOVES having some one to boss around. Not sure how long it will last, but so far so good. She is ripping thru the money from the sale of her house, so be it. My first suggestion is to hire the companion-OUT OF HER MONEY, not yours. Trust me on this, I now have 14,000 left to my name at age 61. I did everything my heart felt was right and I paid the financial price. Put distance between you as much as possible. It does make a difference. No matter how you do it- just do it. Mom got my health too, my stomach started bleeding and I was bringing up blood. NO more. I go for days not communicating. I started doing this when I would see her, she got vile and nasty, I would warn her to either change the subject or I am gone...she didnt, I immediately left; and took a few days "off". All calls go to VM and if she is pleasant I return the call, nasty...nope. It does work. Getting away from it will make a difference. It keeps your mind clearer and you can make decision without emotional slap in the face. As far as the "what if's" worrying about her....What if you take a stroke...then what. Then the system kicks in...use the system now before your stroke. Sign her up for day care, something, just get the distance. You can handle the paperwork from a distance. This is the only chance you have to be most effective to her and not drive yourself into bankruptcy, or insane asylum. You will crack before her. The proof of that is the hoarding- Nothing is ever enough- she can not and therefore will not even be able to stop. It became so evident to me when I had more medications than a 91 year old. When my pcp recommended Psyc service, OMG! Me, a shrink? I own my own business, work 70 a week- LOVE my job, great grown kids, man of my dreams still after 39 years and one nasty woman up set the entire thing? Its ok not to love her or like her. Its ok to do your best for an aging person with issue and not ruin everything you have going for you. This is weird, but worked for me. I got this image in my head that I was standing there with this heavy box full of dirty rocks and smelled awful. I could barely hold it anymore. I pictured myself handing it back to her and saying Here, this is yours, not mine. Where it came from, I have no clue, but I swear on my entire life, it was a turning point for me. Let that sink in.
Good luck, I wish you peace.
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello and Thanks for responding to the OP. Yes the hoarding on top of everything else makes the situation a double edged sword. I just cannot wrap my mind around the hoarding. Everything about it is comorbid and debilitating yet the hoarder acts as if everyone else is crazy and the hoard is perfectly normal. It’s mind blowing. When I go into mother’s apt I feel as if I have walked into hell....and the hottest part of hell at that. Those rocks you dreamed of made me think of the phrase “between a rock and a hard place” because that is how it feels. Well just hang in there. All we can do is our best and move on when the time is right. God Bless you and your family
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Have to agree here for sure, enough already. Sounds like dementia and probably some other mental illnesses. Take her back to hospital, they will do cognitive testing and refuse to bring her into your home they will place her in LTC. Sell the house that has all the junk. Don’t go through it unless you know of things you want, and please don’t add storage costs to your plate. I’m dealing with very similar as we speak, thank you for posting it helps me see my own situation more clearly. Augh!
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello and Thanks for responding to the OP. Yes the refusal to have her discharged to me is the route I’ll have to go. I had a storage unit for 2 mos and cancelled that. The whole situation is exhausting in every way. At some point it will be resolved but it’s tough. Hang in there and wishing you and your family the best as well. God Bless
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How does she get to the store to buy that junk food?
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Clarity Oct 2018
Hello...just wanted to say thanks for responding to the OP and to answer your question. She walks down the block to the store. Believe me, I’m not into enabling. When your dealing with an adult and most especially a parent it can be a battle of wills and I’m not going to wrestle her like an alligator (smile) to keep her from going to the store. I still appreciate the food for thought so that I may pay attention that I don’t enable in other ways. God Bless
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I hope this won't depress you utterly, but I think you are handling it in the best way already.

Your methodical time line, and the flexible approaches you've been using, and your careful choice of battles - these are all very impressive. You are dealing effectively with an extremely challenging person.

The situation is draining and nightmarish, but not because there's anything wrong that you've done or anything you've left out.

You have sensibly sought advice on how to deal with the financial issues without financial POA. You do have health POA. As part of your correct thinking that her living with you is becoming untenable - though actually as it's making you ill it already is untenable - perhaps revisit what support you might be able to get from her healthcare team towards a placement. That might go as far as forcing an assessment of her mental state without her consent. Is she still willing to attend routine medical appointments?

What's so unfair is that she demands to go home; and you countermand her wishes because if you didn't she'd be at risk; and nobody minds your ignoring her autonomy on that score. She neglects basic self-care for a diabetic, and you're there to catch her, and nobody raises the issue of autonomy there either - you can't ethically call her bluff, let her sugars skyrocket, take her to hospital and refuse to collect her (for the avoidance of all doubt, I'm saying you WOULDN'T and COULDN'T do that). And yet when she refuses to see a neurologist, and refuses to consider a facility, all of a sudden she's in charge. Well, nuts to it. EITHER she is in control as a competent adult; OR she isn't. She can't continue to have it both ways.
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rovana Oct 2018
Refusing to take her back into your home may be the only way, in the US, that you can get her real help. I believe you Brits have more realistic laws and practices in regard to mentally ill people. Frankly, were I in poster's shoes, I sure would refuse to take her back - after all other family members have rights too, don't they?
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If I am understanding the situation, your mother has an apartment? So she’s paying rent every month for an apartment that’s uninhabitable. First, contact the landlord and make him aware of the fire threat that exists. Next, contact Adult Protective Services to make them aware of the living conditions in the apartment. She will be evicted. Once that’s done she will only have one place to live: your home. You can either wait until she’s hospitalized again or call 911 and have her taken to the hospital for one of her ailments. Then you can work with the hospital social worker to have her placed in a suitable living situation. If you allow her back in your home, things will go from worse to unbearable for you and your family. If you’re having a hard time grappling with this reality, get counseling to find out why you’re allowing your life to be disrupted like this.
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surprise Oct 2018
I disagree. As long as mom has a lease on the apartment, she is the resident there and should be easier to uproot from the current situation. It's hard to get an eviction on a guest once they've stayed a few nights, and harder if they have no where to go. If the OP refuses to sign for the discharge, the hospital would be negligent if the social worker had been show/given copies of the photos of the condition of the home. If mom gets released to herself, then it's not OP's problem - she can call 911 with those high sugar numbers or lack of food or whatever. She should not bring her home.
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My goodness! That is a very long time to withstand all of that stress!! I’m not a professional but it looks like any kind of self care right now for yourself will be important ! Can you get any help from family members? I joined Instagram and started sharing photographs and jokes to get a life ....But most important here is your own personal stress level is way too high!!
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