Any advice on how to handle caring for a 78 y/o mother who is narcissistic, has dementia, hoards, chronically ill, and living with me?

"2017 : The very thing I thought could and would happen did. She developed Pneumonia and Sepsis and almost died. I had to get her out of the apt which was almost impossible because of the Hoarded condition. Ambulance took her to hospital and she was saved from death. She stayed in SNF for 30 days and discharged to me. She was admitted to the hospital 2 more times for Sepsis and high Blood Sugar."

I think you realize by now that you shouldn't have allowed her to be discharged to you back in 2017. You can't meet her needs, as she was admitted to hospital twice more for sepsis and high blood sugar. When did she move in with you?

Is she mentally incompetent?

You have suffered enough for this woman. Your family has suffered enough. She doesn't have all the votes in what happens to her. Even if she is deemed mentally competent, you don't have to have her live with you and take care of her.

Your health has suffered, and it is only going to get worse.

Call your local office on aging. They can help you.
If she gets admitted to the hospital again, refuse to take her home. They will find placement for her in a long term care facility. I highly doubt that they would discharge her to home as they cannot legally discharge someone to unsafe living conditions, but just in case they would, call APS and tell them she is in immediate jeopardy. They would then have to go to her home within 4 hours. They couldn't make her leave, but they would report the condition of the home to the city who would have the power to condemn it.
But, you have to stick to your guns and NOT allow her back into your home. Remember, at 78, she could possibly live a lot longer. You could end up dying before her due to the stress of trying to care for her. You must put yourself and your family's needs first!

At the next possible juncture, get her to the hospital. Get her admitted. Refuse to take her back into your home. She needs much, much MUCH more care than can be given in your home, by you.

She needs three shifts of professional, well - rested, trained caregivers.

You need to be able to say "Mom, I can't possibly do that" and mean it. Ultimately, you are looking out for HER best interests.

After reading your detailed post (thank you) I had the same answer that came to mind after just reading your topic heading.

Change the one piece of the title that you have full control over: Change having her live in your house. You may not be able to specify where she does live, but you can certainly control whether she lives with you.

It sounds like you are on the right track, applying for Medicaid. She may or may not be able to "refuse" to go into professional care, but she cannot refuse to leave your house, if that is your decision. That is the direction all your hard work should be headed.

It sounds like your mother is mentally ill. I am very sympathetic toward people with mental illnesses. They did not request that affliction. They can't simply "snap out of it." But the current situation is simply enabling her self-harmful behavior. And it is also harming other members of your family. You mean well. You've done your best. Now you need to extricate yourself from this toxic situation.

You continue to save her from the death she is bringing on herself. She wants to be in charge. Think about it.

Listen to the wonderful, caring advice you have gotten here. You are in control of what happens to you, in YOUR home, not Mom, even if Mom thinks she is in control and on some level, you may think she is as well. You’ve certainly treated her as though she was, for a long, long time. Time for that to be over. Mom did this, Mom said that, Mom refused this...enough! Limit her computer access, find out how to block shopping sites. Does she still drive and handle her own money? And, she brings all this “stuff” into YOUR home? You certainly don’t help her carry it in do you?

If she is disregarding her health it won’t won’t be long before she crashes again. As was said, don’t bring her home! Stand your ground with Social Services and refuse to bring her back to your home. Sounds like she has funds. Do you have access to them? Hopefully so. Hire a trash-out company to go to her home and clean it out. Whatever is there is most likely beyond salvaging. If she has neighbors there, they will be forever in your debt if you do this.

Make the change. You know you need to do so. It’s way overdue. And please come back here and let us know how it goes. We care.

No way should you put up with this. You're ruining your health and your family for someone who couldn't care less about you.

Hi, I don’t have too much advice as my situation is similar. We moved to a bigger place to accommodate my mom and her clutter and I totally get it—it takes over your life and then the nastiness, which does not help. I finally sold her apartment and now have to go and get all that junk moved somewhere as she rants and raves about me not throwing anything out, so will have to get a storage unit as well until somebody – – me – – has the physical ability and mind to sort it. And yes, the POA thing is also ugly. I am not really sure what they think we are going to do with it, you are only trying to help her take care of business, but it seems that they don’t get that basic facts at a certain age (my Mom just told me she needs to take her POA back and yet she also does not pay her bills when I give her just one to pay as a test.) Take care of YOU. I have just moved my mom out to assisted living and I am dealing with the issue of her being upset (this is her 3rd move in and out of my home), so I can’t give you advice, but I can say that I was getting so physically sick I had to do it and maybe you will have to do the same if you can get the financials figured out and/or can get an aid in who can give directions and forces her to behave. I am sorry you are going through this because I bet you are like me and you recognize that this is not really “your mom” the way you remember her, but this is the next phase and the more we share we at least realize we are not alone in this (which I feel I am most days until I get on here.) Take care of YOU!

Maybe OP is gone? 😢

Back into facility she goes. Unless you want your house to become hoarders house too. Storage units too expensive...get rid of, sell or donate..She probably has dementia...This could go on at least another 10 years!!! You have power & don’t let her manipulate you. It’s not like she’s 90 something & declining...let us know what happens...hugs hugs 🤗

Close, if you don't have the legal right to get rid of her stuff, at least you DO have the right not to take her back home. You said she's been in and out of your home; don't let her back in, hold firm, and say NO. I've been there.... out is much better!

Wow. I'd call Adult Protective Services and have them assist. Not to be crass, but it doesn't sound like there's any money to oversee or manage, so I'd ask the state to step in and remove her and place her somewhere for care and safety other than your home. Good luck.

she sounds not mentally competent so you must make decisions for her. Even worse, you say she is "going to the store" which I interpret means she is DRIVING with these medical conditions that can get someone killed, even a child. Constant elevated blood sugars are fatal. If you feel she is a danger to herself you may have to call the police and have her forcibly taken to a hospital under a Baker Act to (1) get her medical condition stabilized and (2) psychiatric evaluation for mental competence. Once medically stabilized she will go to the psychiatric unit for mental competence evaluation. IF she is mentally incompetent there will be a visiting Justice to the psych unit to establish guardianship. If she is a danger to herself you have to take charge. Call the local police and go from there and tell them she is killing herself by refusing to take her medications and she is driving with very poor health and may end up killing a child. *Consider refusing to take medications a medical emergency* because it is.

I would contact an attorney. If you have Health POA it's time to use that power for her own ell being and your's. This type of thing happens all the time unfortunately. It sounds like you have done everything humanly possible, it's time for further care for her.

In many ways you have not taken care of yourself. You need help in repairing the damage that has been down to you. It's time for you to heal.

You still have a journey to get there but with good guidance for mom and therapy for you. You will get there. Best of luck to you.

For your own health and that of your family, listen to the thoughtful advice you've received here. You are not trained to handle the situation that your mother has created and refuses to listen to or cooperate with you in your own home. Speaking from experience, my mother is 92 in the New Year. Before my mother turned her attentions back to me to do her "bidding", she sucked the life out of her sisters and now they are gone. I realized during that time to set very firm boundaries and to keep them that way. She lives in her own apartment, but my friend and I take her out to shop and whatever else needed a few days a week. She wants more and pouts about it, but that's tough. I have a life and many other obligations of my own. It's forced her to be more connected to life, still paying her bills and keeping her apartment tidy, with help from me and her maintenance man. I would never, ever allow her to live with me. She did once for several months when I was in my 20s, and she was horrible, trying to take over because she is a narcissist who wants control, attention, and will do anything to get it. Sound like your mother? Then take back control of your life and ensure that she is attended to properly by trained professionals. Although we love them as best we can, we also have to love ourselves enough not to be prey to unrealistic and unhealthy behaviors. Stay strong and do what's best for your mother and yourself. You are not unimportant in this scenario, as your mother would have you believe. I always say to my mother when she pushes too hard, "I'm no good to you if I get sick." To a anyone, especially a narcissist, that speaks volumes. Best of luck and hugs to anyone in this situation!

This is my mother's story pretty much following the same scenario except for the diabetes and extent of hoarding. Turns out hoarding is often an early sign of dementia. Please get her to a neurologist and neuropsychologist for testing. They can give her meds to balance these behaviors. Mom's neurologist was the one who told her she could not handle her finances anymore because of the deficits with executive functions. If she goes back into the hospital for any reason DO NOT ACCEPT her back into your care!!!

My goodness! That is a very long time to withstand all of that stress!! I’m not a professional but it looks like any kind of self care right now for yourself will be important ! Can you get any help from family members? I joined Instagram and started sharing photographs and jokes to get a life ....But most important here is your own personal stress level is way too high!!

If I am understanding the situation, your mother has an apartment? So she’s paying rent every month for an apartment that’s uninhabitable. First, contact the landlord and make him aware of the fire threat that exists. Next, contact Adult Protective Services to make them aware of the living conditions in the apartment. She will be evicted. Once that’s done she will only have one place to live: your home. You can either wait until she’s hospitalized again or call 911 and have her taken to the hospital for one of her ailments. Then you can work with the hospital social worker to have her placed in a suitable living situation. If you allow her back in your home, things will go from worse to unbearable for you and your family. If you’re having a hard time grappling with this reality, get counseling to find out why you’re allowing your life to be disrupted like this.

I hope this won't depress you utterly, but I think you are handling it in the best way already.

Your methodical time line, and the flexible approaches you've been using, and your careful choice of battles - these are all very impressive. You are dealing effectively with an extremely challenging person.

The situation is draining and nightmarish, but not because there's anything wrong that you've done or anything you've left out.

You have sensibly sought advice on how to deal with the financial issues without financial POA. You do have health POA. As part of your correct thinking that her living with you is becoming untenable - though actually as it's making you ill it already is untenable - perhaps revisit what support you might be able to get from her healthcare team towards a placement. That might go as far as forcing an assessment of her mental state without her consent. Is she still willing to attend routine medical appointments?

What's so unfair is that she demands to go home; and you countermand her wishes because if you didn't she'd be at risk; and nobody minds your ignoring her autonomy on that score. She neglects basic self-care for a diabetic, and you're there to catch her, and nobody raises the issue of autonomy there either - you can't ethically call her bluff, let her sugars skyrocket, take her to hospital and refuse to collect her (for the avoidance of all doubt, I'm saying you WOULDN'T and COULDN'T do that). And yet when she refuses to see a neurologist, and refuses to consider a facility, all of a sudden she's in charge. Well, nuts to it. EITHER she is in control as a competent adult; OR she isn't. She can't continue to have it both ways.

How does she get to the store to buy that junk food?

Have to agree here for sure, enough already. Sounds like dementia and probably some other mental illnesses. Take her back to hospital, they will do cognitive testing and refuse to bring her into your home they will place her in LTC. Sell the house that has all the junk. Don’t go through it unless you know of things you want, and please don’t add storage costs to your plate. I’m dealing with very similar as we speak, thank you for posting it helps me see my own situation more clearly. Augh!

First and foremost, you are not alone. This site is amazing and the advise on here changed my life. I too have the same situation and believe me when I tell you it is a no win. My mom moved from florida-nasty nasty vile woman- being an only child, there IS no one else. Trapped, grown family, great husband....and now this. Nasty, paranoid, lying, nocturnal, hoarding, obese, incontinent, diabetic, high blood pressure -medication game playing woman. ALL HER LIFE. One thing I did do was put her in her own apartment, as she is FAR healthier than I am. I hired a "companion" and so far so good- she LOVES having some one to boss around. Not sure how long it will last, but so far so good. She is ripping thru the money from the sale of her house, so be it. My first suggestion is to hire the companion-OUT OF HER MONEY, not yours. Trust me on this, I now have 14,000 left to my name at age 61. I did everything my heart felt was right and I paid the financial price. Put distance between you as much as possible. It does make a difference. No matter how you do it- just do it. Mom got my health too, my stomach started bleeding and I was bringing up blood. NO more. I go for days not communicating. I started doing this when I would see her, she got vile and nasty, I would warn her to either change the subject or I am gone...she didnt, I immediately left; and took a few days "off". All calls go to VM and if she is pleasant I return the call, nasty...nope. It does work. Getting away from it will make a difference. It keeps your mind clearer and you can make decision without emotional slap in the face. As far as the "what if's" worrying about her....What if you take a stroke...then what. Then the system kicks in...use the system now before your stroke. Sign her up for day care, something, just get the distance. You can handle the paperwork from a distance. This is the only chance you have to be most effective to her and not drive yourself into bankruptcy, or insane asylum. You will crack before her. The proof of that is the hoarding- Nothing is ever enough- she can not and therefore will not even be able to stop. It became so evident to me when I had more medications than a 91 year old. When my pcp recommended Psyc service, OMG! Me, a shrink? I own my own business, work 70 a week- LOVE my job, great grown kids, man of my dreams still after 39 years and one nasty woman up set the entire thing? Its ok not to love her or like her. Its ok to do your best for an aging person with issue and not ruin everything you have going for you. This is weird, but worked for me. I got this image in my head that I was standing there with this heavy box full of dirty rocks and smelled awful. I could barely hold it anymore. I pictured myself handing it back to her and saying Here, this is yours, not mine. Where it came from, I have no clue, but I swear on my entire life, it was a turning point for me. Let that sink in.
Good luck, I wish you peace.

I recently posted about my Hoarding Mom - I completely hear you.

Unfortunately, what I've come to understand is that until/unless the Hoarder is mentally or physically "incompetent", then there is literally nothing you can do.

Literally. Nothing.

You can't fix this. You can only protect yourself.

One of the things that has helped me is to look at the Hoarding as an addiction. You can't help an addict unless they want help, and even then sometimes you can't.

I chose to let go of trying to fix or change my Hoarding Mom and to set boundaries that protect me, my sanity and my family. My Hoarding Mom is clear with me that because I think it's unacceptable to live in a home with no working heat, that I am a liar, that I'm trying to steal from her, that I'm not to be trusted, and that it's her life and her choices, and that I can't control her or tell her what to do, like I do everyone else. (Yes, because that makes sense).

Sure, her choices, but it's also my reality.

I have made a choice to limited my contact with Mom. I think long and hard about what contact (kids/visits/phone) I'm OK with and what I'm not. And when. Because she is right - she has "capacity", so she CAN make her own choices. All I can control is how I react/don't react to her mental illness.

Society/your family/neighbors will tell you it's your problem to solve, just go in there and clean it up! I'm telling you that's not true. You didn't create this problem, you can't fix it, you're not responsible for it.

I have and continue (on and off) to see a therapist who helps me work through this. Because I choose not to bring my years of hurt, anger, and resentment into my home and into my relationship with my husband and my kids. I choose to see this as an issue is between my mother and me. And as heartbreaking as it is to know that she cares more about piles of trash than she does about me, I've also (after years of therapy - give yourself time to deal, cope, grieve) come to the decision that even though I can't change her, I can change: 1.) how I choose to look at this; and 2.) where my boundaries are.

I hope this is helpful to you. There are support groups out there filled with people who are also dealing with this. I joined Children of Hoarders and have found comfort and release in knowing I'm not alone.

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/



You're a good person dealing with someone else's rotten mental illness. I'm sorry you're going through this.

This may sound harsh, but evict her.
Shop (on your own) for both an assisted living apartment and a regular apartment. Inform your mother that she can no longer live with your family. If you don't want to hear an argument, invent a rock solid reason why she can't...you're going back to work full time, you're having the house remodeled...whatever.
Give her a choice, the AL or an apartment on her own (schedule some home care to check in on her and get her a pendant). Once the hard part is done and she's moved out (keep that goal in your mind at all times), you'll still be dealing with the disaster (if she picks the regular apartment) or her rocky adjustment (if she chooses AL - hoarders and narcissist always have rocky adjustments). But, you'll be able to regain your health and sanity and deal with it at arm's length, mostly over the phone.
Once she's out of your house, never let her back in (that was the misstep that launched this journey). You DO NOT have to let the hospital discharge to you. That is what is easiest for them, but you simply refuse and say that there is no one to care for her at my home nor at hers. They cannot discharge unless she can be properly cared for.

Yes, your mother needs to be OUT of your home. Your health, your family relationships MUST be your priority. IsntEasy's advice and recommendations are accurate. If and when your mother winds up in the hospital do NOT allow them to discharge her to your home. You do not need to say anything more than it is not an acceptable discharge plan. You do not have to give your mother an explanation other than it is no longe acceptable for her to be in your home... period, end of statement.
Keep in mind what your and your family's needs and feelings are and how to best care for yourself and them. Be clear that your needs and feelings matter and must be respected... In spite of whatever guilt you may initially feel, it will be better than suffering as you have been, and the guilt will pass as your health and control over your home return... Please take care of you.

This sounds like a mental problem, schizophrenia, she needs to be medicated and
possibly then she will stop bullying everyone around her...they feel good when the putdowns start..u are left bereft with low esteem and guilt at not wanting to hurt
an Elder………...anyway looks like NH will not take a violent abusive person anyway..
she may need a mental institution...…………….this will drain you...perhaps u let her get away with this your entire life....its called acting out...

When I first read the header, I thought you were talking about my mom. Mine is 84 and while she doesn't live with me, I can tell you this behavior does not get any better. Her narcissism hit an all time low on Saturday when she called my son (on his wedding day!) and told him she wasn't going to his wedding...all to draw attention to herself.
I am so done with her. I'll be there in case of emergency. Other than that, she is on her own. She has been mean and manipulative my entire life. At 61, I do not have the energy to deal with her negativity. It started to affect me physically and I put the brakes on it. I am now in counseling paying out of pocket.

My doctor, whom I have to see often now that my health has been damaged by my caregiving challenges, keeps driving home the point that I can only do as much as I'm able to do, and as much as my dad will allow. It should always be a two-part formula. I can exhaust myself trying to get compliance out of someone who has physical, cognitive, mental health, and personality issues to create better circumstances for him but often not succeed in the long term. Or I can make a realistic assessment, as you are doing, and figure out where the legitimate boundaries need to be. I think you're on notice to detach as much as you can, and to do the work you need to feel okay about it.

Your mom is on the road to the hospital again with her poor health habits. If you can't get her out before that happens, then heed what others have said and don't allow her to be discharged to you. Hospitals employ social workers specifically to deal with these situations when someone is no longer suitable for their previous living situation. You will probably get push back because they have to work harder to solve the problem than just trying to convince you it will be different this time. The most important thing you can do is stand your ground on all fronts, which, by the way, will involve a lot of crying in the bathroom for a while.

Best to you.

Din;t do Yourself in trying to please someone who "isn't even in there." Do you want to be the next one who's ill? Get her into a care center ASAP. She needs more care than you can give her. It's Not worth the money you expect to "earn" from her, or from inheritance! Get over it. YOU can't fix her, and what life you have left is being destroyed. Give her care to SEVERAL PEOPLE in a care center, rather than YOU doing it all. It's NOT worth it. She is NOT the same loving mother you used to know. Get her out of your home!

My MIL also has a Personality Disorder and is a hoarder and has dementia. She went to the hospital when she broke her hip, and we would not allow her to go home. She’s been living in a nursing home for a few years, and we finally have some sanity back.

As soon as your mother has the slightest bit of distress or her blood pressure goes up or blood sugar is out of whack, call 911 and have them transport her to the ER. When she gets there after they do their initial evaluation, step out of the room and let them know that you WILL NOT be taking her home because you are no longer able to care for her at home, and that they need to find placement for her in a Nursing Facility IMMEDIATELY. Refuse to take her home. Walk out if you have to.

This is a little secret to fast-tracking placement. Your mother will be mad at you, but she will adjust. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of anyone else.