How can I address hygiene with my mother-in-law?

mY hubby has dementia as his wife he battled me at every situation, got to the point he would lay in his bed for 48 hours straight would not allow me to touch him and laid in his own waste, it was horrid!! I came within hours of having to go to court to get a mental health warrant. thankfully for whatever reason he allowed me to clean him up and take him to the hospital as his doctor had wanted him to do in the first place. Thankfully the hospital was able to arrange placement from the hospital to a local NH for long term care. The NH has been a Godsend.He has no problem doing anything the nurses there ask him to do. I visit him every other day or so and keep in touch by phone every day. It is strange how loved ones can be that way. The nurses don't do anything any different than I was doing. I glad he is getting the much needed care he needs and it has taken a lot of burden off my shoulders, of which I am so thankful. I love my hubby but being the only caregiver I was to the point of total burnout.

To "bestmotherinlaw" ... a tip of the hat to you as well. I must tell you much of what I've written to you has been either removed or modified by someone behind the site. The very last comment I've written regarding your posted question starting "windyridge" seems to be the only one that was not greatly modified, cut in half or rearranged ... but other comments have. Just today I've found numourous Comments I've authored under other members posts had been stripped of content and literally rearranged to say something far different than what I originally authored them to say. To regretfully learn this site is strongly and unethically censoring and modifying comments posted, to me that is where I also draw the line of participating. This site needs to be brought up on appropriate charges, and I perhaps I will pursue that after having an interesting conversation with our attorney this afternoon. I wish you and your family well. Goodnight.

Again thanks for the many replies but a special "tip of the hat" to Tired1of4. Thank you for saying some of the things I was thinking! Yes I am a 66 y.o. man and yes I am not comfortable with having this conversation with M-I-L. I thought my wife would be okay with it but she's as uncomfortable as I am. Nothing wrong with that and after the many insightful postings we've started looking for a professional to come here and bath her. We already are her 24/7/365 caregivers and bathing her is one task neither of us is comfortable with nor desire to do it. For us It is the best solution at this time and if insurance won't cover it we will gladly pay for this service. Thank you everyone for your input.

I was wondering about the possibility of infection in the most smelly areas--would be worth have a gyn check.

Dear Grammyteacher,

You are blessed to have a partner, your husband, who is able & willing to assist you with your mom. It sounds like you have a loving & supportive family as well. What a nice feeling when we know we can count on each other if needed & it's a plus if they are family.

At a 5 star facility for ALZ & memory impairments, where everything, inclusive of staff, was top of the line, there were female & male assistants for a mixed clientele. These assistants were trained & capable of caregiving anyone who needed it. With male assistants I noticed smiles from the elderly women when they received compliments or shared a dance with an excellent partner. The fear would be absent from their face if they needed help, especially in an ambulating situation. I don't know how much hands on they did with female clients, but, it was evident they made a difference & a good one. Isn't that what it's about?

My point is, anyone, male or female can rise up to the challenges of caregiving if they have empathy & compassion.

Thank you for "getting me." Your support is appreciated. As a caregiver, we all need help, I'm all for anyone helping as long as they love what they do, care.

Blessings 🌸

Tired 1 of 4,

Not everyone can caregive. There are so many responsibilities that come along with it & not everyone is up to doing them. I commend you for admitting to your limitations & that it wouldn't be for you.

I, or we, on this site, may have gotten off topic regarding hired help. What I was trying to say, from my experience with help for my brother; age, gender, nationality, size (big or small) doesn't matter. Experience & knowledge count & caring with empathy & compassion. It's always been about the "right fit" for my brother. ALZ care is a challenge & he has had gals & guys assist him & one never knows what a day or moment will be like. It's called ALZ.

We all may say or think we can't or won't do any & all deeds, but, we do, instinct kicks in along with love & caring.

I don't think a SIL should be the first in line to discuss hygiene or to be the primary caregiver to his MIL. I do commend any SIL for their concerns & for reaching out for answers. There are many caregivers out there who have "been there, done that" & the intent is to help each other.

You have made some valid points & I thank you, great postings are good reads & make for better discussions. It's all about sharing & reaching out. I think this forum is excellent!

Blessings 🌸

... "windyridge".. the very first comment made by that man, he had not only summed it up correctly, but he said everything,  perfectly, short and to the point ... he was also very valuable by his speaking one man to another.   
... And anyone else suggesting to poster that he and his wife hire bathing help, kudos to you as well. 

Personal thoughts; There are many of us who still hold parent/ child (in law included) as a private respectable dynamic regardless any aging mental or physical disabilities of said elders .... bathing and hygiene falls on the other side of that dynamic of which many of us draw the line. For those of us that find the act of cleaning an adults private areas a phychological disturbance, I commend us for retaining that dignity in both our parents, and ourselves. 

These elders are not our children, and psychologically it is healthier for both the elder and the caregiver to refrain from ever crossing that line, and healthier to never confuse that fact (sadly I believe many on this site have confused that fact.)  
Understand this; The care level and degree of all other care provided by those of us that refrain from those hygine acts can be the utmost highest level, and still refrain from those specific tasks.
... And those hired to clean adult strangers private areas, well, I cannot say as I commend you, but I can say, I will pay you.  And I will stand here in front of anyone without guilt and be the first to say; that  if my mother could not wipe herself nor wash her private areas herself, I would have ended being the sole care giver of her, long ago. ~

it's clear this wasn't about-the poster needing to learn the do's & donts of everyone pitching in.
He also didn't ask, nor speak one word about needing suggestions from any of you how to learn how to pitch in. (Yet wow, so many stories) .... He also didn't ask any of you how to better teach his family to help (yet there again so many stories ....
So, what does he have to read? for all of you to change his question and make into topic that you prefer?
 I can assume he's long past the point of how to fit his mother in law into his family dynamic, and has now simply hit a sensitive problem. He clearly posted the issues they have with her hygiene .. so perhaps respond to that specific call for help rather than responding on """ his"" question by conversating on "this is how we should all help" telling everyone it takes a village to raise an elder type crud.

Blessings4Ever,
I am with you. My husband is amazing with my mom. I do work hard to plan our schedule so he doesn't need to do the intimate care...I have daughters who come help... But he has assisted with showering, bed baths, changing, feeding, moving her from bed to wheelchair to recliners, and other daily tasks for over three years. I could not do it without him. Sometimes my mom is more agitated with me but will calm for him. We tag team it all and I am thankful for such an amazing partner. By the way, we shared in the care of his father 25 years ago when he had congestive heart failure. We also care for his mother, she just doesn't need as much hands on care at this time. I am blessed.

"the new normal" as a couple of you've mentioned now, twice, has zero to do with this 97 year old and her son-in-law. His resources will allow him a discretionary choice, be-it hired-in or other.. and I can safely assume his choice would be based on how to better protect her privacy and sense of humility. You people talking about male female job role change is just something to talk about. My guess is "if he chooses to use his resources he will choose a person of whom he feels will better protect his mother in laws emotional state, her comfort and privacy ... So no, your "help is just help, so shut up and accept it" type of thinking is barbaric and causes needless emotional termoil. Absolutely not. No way in h*ll should anyone in this situation sit back and accept that way of thinking.

And I dont care what you folks think should be thought of as "progress regarding humility and privacy and the male or female bathing assistance. (We are not talking a physician we are not talking a dentist and we are not talking the "in-hospital stay" depersonalization that hospitals are known to do to patients via privacy removal by the throw everyone in the same gown and you are now known as a room number, and for the most part you are removed from the decision of who takes care of you..) ..... 

We are how-ever talking about personal Bathing assistance in which involves more than just the nude body .. it involves the actual touching "via" the washing of very private areas of the body .. and if either of your mothers were in this son-in-laws situation regarding his mother-in-law, I can guarantee (I hope to god) that you wouldn't sit there and tell your mother "mom it's the new normal so let this 22 year old young man clean your vaginal and breast areas and I don't want to hear a word of your embarrassment." ... my god.

I don't see a shortage of female to female help nor male to male help (or what ever matched "help one chooses)  or any other shortage of patient choice regarding aid sex discretion shortage going on. .. but what I do hear (read) is just a whole lot of jabber to jabber, and that's conserning and it speaks volumes of the ones doing it. 

I go through this with my mom somedays. I try to go to the bathroom with her when I know she is having a bowel movement. I have baby wipes, but she doesn't like them "cold" so I warm them up with fresh warm water, add a little soap, then rinse and she uses incontinence underwear. She used to use tena but there was an odor from them. I use Walmart Assure brand and no odor and they cost a third less than the other name brands and work just as well. We just put new undies on everyday, even if they look clean to her. Sure is better than the pads now. Mom comes up with every excuse under the sun, I might fall, I am gonna freeze, you name it but since she goes to the hair dresser we can do a good and complete shower in about 6 minutes. When I get the $$ I am putting in a bidet. Tried one at a fuel station, and I loved it. Felt like I just had a shower and was refreshed.

Dear Tired 1 of 4:

I don't think anyone on this site actually requested the SIL to assist his MIL. It seems like everyone is offering suggestions for the family.

I commended the SIL for being concerned for his MIL, caring as well.

That being said, who should & shouldn't help if it's needed, especially in an emergency situation? Anyone who is available & capable, but, you have to want to.

It's not only acceptable for women to caregive everyone. Men can caregive also & are good at it, I've witnessed it. Their role is not limited to a wife or child. I know men who have cared for their mom, dad, or both & at the same time. If a man cares (key word) & the situation warrants it, I do feel they would step up to the plate, no matter.

As a caregiver to my brother with ALZ I have helped him since day 1. Did I think I would do this, ever be doing this for my brother? Or that I even could? No, but I did without hesitating.

I think we should never underestimate any caregiver & give credit where it's due, woman or man. There's something about listening & watching anyone of them, they make everything sound & look easy.

Dear Daughterlu,

Totally in agreement with you! It's really all about the "new normal."

Blessings 🌸

.... To "GranJan".... (please excuse poster, my detracting from your question for a sec) ... I need to mention this to you, my mom has what's known as chronic dry skin and it's made seriously worse by taking "baths rather than showers. And the flaking occurred during two types of bathing 1. after sponge baths because of the soaps would never get diluted and rinsed well as with with running water when sponge bathed. 2. after "baths"... 

At the time the chronic dry skin was found she was in a facility that would leave her sitting in a bath for up to 45 mins, or sponge bathe her (also after a hip replacement) ....  Her clothes would be full of dried skin flakes I would have to take them out side to shake them out before I'd even allow them in my washing machine. (I did her laundry the facility would leave her clothing lost or stolen)... so yes I've been there with seeing her skin as if it was snowing around her and ten redness appears as almost generalized burns to her extremities ) .. 

I demanded change from bath to shower, they would not comply. It has taken two years (now lives with me) of skin therapy special lotions and physical rehydration to stop the chronic dry skin. Water is a necessity to wash bacteria and dirt away, but when left to sit in it such as a Beth, or left to un-rinsed soaps or pre-soaped sponge bath wipes, both techiques dries anyone's skin, and with elder skin, it's ten fold. So now (over the past 2 years) only showers, and specific lotions are applied before being pat-dried off ... and a continual balanced hydration level via fluids is maintained. (Otherwise, "skin" becomes weak, vulnerable and serves less a protection feature of us humans than intended)

I don't think it matters if MIL lives with SIL or in her own home...she obviously is at a point of needing assistance with bathing. My mom lived is her own home for much of our journey with demensia. Early on I would go each morning and help her bath. Now she lives with me and I give her bed baths. Help is help

After my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, she moved into assisted living. She never smelled so I never realized she was just sponge bathing. She broke her hip and after surgery the nurses sat her in a chair to bathe her. Because she had only been sponging herself for a couple of years that meant only the areas she could reach. When they started washing her so much skin flaked off her it looked like snow in the room. It covered the floor and even the window sills. The reason she wouldn't shower in the asst Liv facility was because it was only a shower and she said she didn't like water hitting her in the face.

I've been giving my dementia-sufferer MIL a bath every night for the best part of a year now. It felt like a big deal at the beginning but within a week it felt normal. She is compliant, calm, careful/deliberate in her movements and grateful. We have developed a routine and never deviate so she knows what comes next. We use Oilatum Bath Formula (in the UK) in the bath water and plain soap. It takes all of 10 minutes. She can wash her face with a flannel but everything else needs to be done for her. I don't know how to help you get to the point where you can do this.

Wow. Lots of good advice here if Mom is living with and/or dependent on you; but the original question doesn't mention that she is.
I think her daughter needs to have a private talk with Mom about the odor, offer to take her to the doctor to see if it's a medical issue, ask if she needs assistance with bathing, or whatever else she and Mom can think of to solve the problem.
If her own daughter doesn't want to do that, son-in-law's options, IMO, are (1) butt out or (2) call APS or the local Health Dept.

You can try to convince her to do better and you can even try to help her. However, if and only if all else fails, it's called a GI bath

.. you did write back to poster, you did direct the poster to step in. By your Mentioning the differences and indifferences of male female professionals has zero to do with this mans situation. He states nothing of living or not living with the mother in law. Meaning if one is going to assume then the assumption works both ways, not just the way you wish it. ... And if you like living with your mother playing sleep over brushing teeth together, wiping her rear and front end results, and then dressing alike ... enjoy.

Short term memory loss & dementia is usually referred to as Alzheimer's. As a caregiver to my brother with ALZ; I am sorry to say he is not in excellent health. He is much younger than your MIL & has not been self sufficient for quite sometime.

Your MIL, at 97, needs assistance. Think of all the steps involved in bathing, bathroom agendas, dressing, it's a lot. Consider all this with her age, short term memory loss & dementia. Her dripping & leaking, resulting in odors, signifies she is incontinent as well, a health issue. Incontinence is never a small leakage, a little drip or occasionally. She is unaware of her odor or the reasoning for it, another health issue. She is not bathing, her "cat baths" are not enough for her needs, she is not self sufficient.

Is your MIL still living independently, alone? Does she have anyone assisting her? If her family members are unable to share or take on the role of caregiving, & it sounds like it's needed, then it may be time to find a personal aide to assist her. An assisted living, memory care or nursing home are other options depending on her health & needs. An assessment would determine that.

It sounds like there's denial going on, a "she's ok at 97," attitude & she's not, she's struggling. That's sad. There's her dignity, safety issues & health concerns to consider as well. If she's alone there's accidents just waiting to happen, especially with a memory impairment.

I wish you the best going forward. I commend you, as a SIL, for your care & concern.

Blessings 🌸

Hi BMILaw,
Please forgive me but I'll be brutally honest. No offense intended.

You don't mention if she lives with you or not.
If she does, how do you keep her "smell" from getting on the furniture? Do you put down barriers like incontinence pads? Air freshener?

If she lives alone, there's not much you can do. Is she neglecting the house also?

In fact, until SOMEONE is able to confront the hygiene issue with her, there will be no solving the problem. If you're not ready to speak up, then you and others have to live with the smell.

As her dementia progresses, she will need MORE care and that's when she will be bathed (hopefully thoroughly) by her caregivers.

Since you and your wife don't want to tell her she "stinks, smells or has BO", I guess you can wait until she progresses to need the care. It all depends on how bad the odor is and how much you can stand. Could her brother bring it up?

Everyone thinks poor hygiene causes illness, and, to a point, they are right. But frequent (daily) bathing is something new that we all take for granted. Only in the last 50 years has it been a "rule". She will not die or even get sick from poor pubic hygiene. It just smells disgusting to everyone around her. There is a possibility of a bladder infection if she "wipes up" from the anal area past the urethra (urinary tube). But, if she hasn't had a UTI recently or frequently, chances are she won't.

It's up to you when or if you ever mention anything. At her age, she may need care taking within a year anyway.

The husband of the daughter seemed to write the question. He said my "Mother-in-law." He said his wife was uncomfortable talking about it. It seemed the writer and his wife lived with the Mother and took her to visit a brother who called them up after their visit to tell them the Mother had a bad odor. I did not say the son-in-law should be taking care of the Mother's hygiene. Our generation is old fashioned about that. However who knows what the future will hold. There are male and female Doctors / gynecologists, urologists, etc., male and female nurses, sons and daughters. Who knows where the future will take us. Female nurses and nurses aids have long been giving personal hygiene care to female and male patients and residents at long term care facilities. Men have to make a living too. Society is changing. Now a person can change their sex if they want to. It is nice to hear old fashioned values. We read the information differently.

Stop the crap about kids need to care for their parents. I'm so sick of that. First of all can't you people read?? he's a son-in-law and I imagine one in his 60's or 70's himself based on she's 97. She's a female mother-in-law, does that not switch your advices appropriately?? It should. No son, let alone a son-in-law should EVER "have to, nor should Ever be made to feel guilty into "maintaining the hygiene of a mother-in-law, my god. 

Stop telling people, who ever it may be, that they should feel responsibility of anyone regarding aging individuals, if the feeling is there, then they already own that to the degree they do, so let them work out their own situations regarding "feelings!!!!!!! 
Good God the man (if in fact the poster is in fact a man) .. a man should never have to clean the a**, breasts, nor vaginal areas of a female. (Unless it's his wife or child) and even then, out-side help would be easily found to do such a task of thorough bathing. (one thorough shower per week is sufficient for a 97 year old. Any more will dry the skin causing chances of skin issues that include itching and skin tears and abrasions to be more frequent.) 

Unbelievable .... someone Telling this guy to put a glove on and make sure poop isn't dangling?????? Then you have someone Telling him to spray a sh** ton of air freshener???( good way to throw a 97 year old into a respitory attack) .... I swear to god I think some who respond are not of their full-facilities, actually based on some of the comments psychological assessment red flags are popping up all over the d*mn place. 
 This is 2017 not 1900... this man has resources that he can draw assistance from within his community, and if her insurance is governmental or private both will have bath aids integrated within assistance. She's 97 years old for so stop telling him to start talking with her, and start telling him to bring someone in once a week and get it done. It's not time for a hygienic intervention to reteach a 97 year old what's acceptable social hygiene. (I'm cracking up out of pure disbelief and blown away what many of you've written...) 

You folks need to direct him in the way that will both alleviate his concern and minimize the event all together.... , but for god sakes knock the guilt crap off """ yes I said 'crap Off" and stop the weirdness many of you seem to love to publicize  ..... (some of you have clearly lost it... wow. "One flew over the coo coos nest, and "mommy dearest are flashing through my mind reading these from some of you.) 

At 97 years old you should probably be accompanying your Mother to the bathroom if she smells bad. Put on latex or vinyl single use gloves, blow into them first so they slide on easily. Say, "here let me help you, you have poo hanging on from your butt." Let her wipe first then you can check out from the back with baby wipes until they wipe clean. Use disposable paper panties and you can use something like panty liners - extra long is good if leaks are pee or poo in the paper panties. When Mother was in a rogue Personal Care facility, residents had to line up for lunch and then wait, one wheel chair behind another until the doors open. There was a terrible stench in the hallways. When daughters were there, many of them complained and helped their moms out even if it was just the days they were there with their Mom that their Mom's didn't smell. Mother is at a different facility now, with most of her friends in Assisted Living or Independent Living. No one stinks. It was a step up. I stay with Mother as full time Caregiver here and make sure she has clean panties, clean butt and we clean her fingernails with a pick and use peroxide on a fingernail brush before meals. Also as far as personal hygiene, Mom gets a shower once or twice a week. I assist her and help her wash her hair. I wear a long raincoat, it makes her laugh and we heat up the shower by getting the shower all steamy and warm before she steps in. We brush our teeth together in the bathroom in the mornings and I use a toothbrush on the inside of her bottom teeth for her. The dentist just suggested a water pick. If your Mother is doing a good job regarding personal hygiene, you wouldn't be asking for advice. My advice is to encourage Mother to do as much as possible by herself but if she is not doing a good job that is where you need to step in. Mom and I dress in coordinated outfits most days, and she wears her pearls and a big smile. We were always a very correct and polite family. It is correct and polite to keep your Mom clean and smelling good.

A large shower cabin or walk in shower where you can put a plastic stool or small plastic chair to sit on is a must. Also plenty of bars and handles to clutch onto to keep one's balance - and a properly anti-slip floor. Some old people are just simply frightened of falling and not being able to get up. Getting out of a bath can be murder for someone in their late 70s or 80s. Perfect excuses not to shower or take baths.

Female lack of hygiene is among some of the most disgusting smells in the world, (in all fairness male-unclean " uncirmcized" ordor is just as disgusting) .. next to decaying animals etc. the odors are violently putrid. god, just hire someone and force her get clean..use the reasoning is she doesn't she could contract such a bacterial infection it could kill her. Then I would ignore any and all back lash from her .. get that funk taken care of. If she's over weight the yeast build up between rolls of skin alone is disgusting by itself . .. then the female "private areas if not controlled can make one vomit. Hire someone once a week. Otherwise it won't stop. Have the bath aid (after drying) place an anti yeast cream under any folds of skin and have the aid use a strong deodorizing body wash. It will take a couple baths  to kill all the bacteria. And I suggest showers .. the bacteria needs to wash away from the skin rather than sit in it as a bath would do. 

Well, I am the mother in this situation. Only difference is I have no issues with incontinence or bathing. I have a huge walk in shower. 1st...Can you put a walk in shower for her. 2nd. DO NOT BE afraid to speak the truth to your mother. I would rather my kids speak the truth then not. I am 75 and live in a house behind my kids home. That is as close as I will get. My mother was independent until the end. Even tho we cannot predict what our end will be, I would surely appreciate my kids being honest.

Try enrolling her in a swim class for arthritis or stretching - then she will shower before & after plus being in water for over 1/2 hour - I go to the nearby pool regularly - advantage is you don't need to clean te shower afterwards

Getting in & out of tub & cleaning it can be a worry for even active seniors so this may contribute to problem - use this as an activity with a family member[s] to start with so that she goes as an 'outing' not a clean up issue -

If someone could do a liberal spraying of a deoderizer while she's out will help also - otherwise take old socks filled with kitty litter & stuff them down sofa etc. - replace every few weeks

Our adult parents 80 and over are mostly old school modesty. Sometimes they prefer an outsider to help. Sometimes the kids have to build up their parents trust in themselves to allow you to "HELP". I was concerned about my mom not bathing everyday until someone wrote on this site that they probably didn't bathe everyday growing up and it's OK. The smell situation maybe you could get them to use the wipes instead of soap and water. Someone mentioned the parent being in the same clothes. Unless the are wet everybody where's their clothes more than once. My mom had taken her clothes out of her drawers and put them on a shelf. It turned out to be a brilliant idea for both of us. I could pick out an outfit or if she wanted she could. I made sure I got the old clothes in a pile and moved back and had her new outfit on her bed. I am a BIG proponent of helping " the help" they are grossly underpaid and it's just a "job". It's your responsibility to see that your parent is getting what YOU consider the BEST for your parent and that usually means helping. It's funny how we expect someone else to lovingly do what a lot of children won't do for their own parent. I was sole care giver for my mom. My siblings lived out of town. I never complained and I can now look back and know my mom had the best and I was FREE of charge. Love you MOM.

My mother in law had the same problem. We were living with them to help out. The entire house would smell when we got up because she wandered at night. I finally just told her I was going to give her a shower and do her hair so she would feel fresher. I didn't take no for an answer. She loved it and felt so good. They refused to let anyone come in to help. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it. I did have to tell her she smelled but I tried to be kind about it.